Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:01:27 -0700 From: Hb <passionsource at mindspring dot com> Subject: Cutler & Paragraph formats...
I had submitted some thoughts concerning different views on progressive music as a means to generate some new discussion on the topic, but there seems to be some censoring happening here, which is a pity.
Mr Tucker had responded, but apparently was not published. I'd like to respond to some of his thoughts. I hope this will be published. Yes, Marc, its true that archaic socialist cliches tend to die hard and I don't always agree with these types of arguments.
I do, however, feel that the idea of a group effort is a valid one aside from what you may feel is 'uber-socialism'. I would venture to say that groups like KC, Yes, and Henry Cow are all examples of this, among others. As for Mr Bailey, his experiments in MIC, SME and Company should be considered in this train of thought.
As for the listener's involvement in the process, this may not be part of the compositional process, but certainly has much relevance in a live context; something that Mr Fripp has even addressed more than once. When I am improvising in a live context, this is certainly part of my experience and attention.
Whether Chris is jealous,I really doubt that. His views regarding the ascendency and decline of musical forms is subjective, but I find them interesting. In fact, I believe there is a cultural piece to the equation here. I have an old two-part article that The Wire published: a-z of prog rock, which has the subheading " a thumbnail guide to the shadowy 70s world of concept albums, twin-neck guitars, mellotrons, frightening virtuosity and terrifying hairstyles." The British take on prog certainly is abit different than the American, and I find this very interesting (and humorous)!
The concept of Rock in Opposition (RiO) is a valid one, though, and I DO believe that politics have a place in music. Considering the powerful influence that music possesses, I feel that especially now there should be more of a responsibility that musicians impart something to their audience other than dazzling aerobic workouts and posing, etc. This challenge/ confrontation is necessary but largely ignored, for obvious and not-so-obvious reasons. To state this is thoroughly unnecessary, is to be truly blind-sided and/or parochial. There may be a 'snob factor', Marc, but this exists everywhere, including this newsletter and that shouldn't put one off to the challenges and confrontations that require addressing; musically and otherwise.
Whatever rules do seem to exist, there will always be hypocrisies: to be human is to be inherently hypocrytical. What has 'capitalism' got to do with music? Today, Everything! I believe the real fight is beyond the record companies at this point. {Speaking of rules, I hope that I have used paragraphs more effectively for you, Toby. Sometimes, getting one's thought across is more important than formats... ;~9 }
I hope this newletter can exist with some good dialoguing and minimal censorship. There's more than enough of this tendency elsewhere. I would also hope that if Toby does censor, he will at least have the courage to acknowledge what has been submitted.
[ Generally I do acknowledge "censored" stuff to the original poster -- Toby ]
Peace, Dr Howard
> > >
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:07:48 -0500 From: "Proginoskes" <proginoskes at email dot msn dot com> Subject: Re: Paragraphs & punctuation
... and then there's spelling. ("puntuation" should be "punctuation", and "cummins" should be "cummings") I normally wouldn't have mentioned it, but when someone posts something about watching for details, they'd better watch them in their own post.
-- Christopher "HeKcman"
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:44:34 -0700 From: "David C." <chetkin at sbcglobal dot net> Subject: Absolute Everywhere and Elsewhere
Ah yes, this english Warner Bros. vinyl still exists in my record collection. Not sure if the American counterpart would ever bother to put it out for lack of a better excuse, no sales, no soaring guitar and no vocals or as Francis Vincent Zappa would aptly descirbe his own creation; No Commercial Potential. It came out in 1976 and consists of spacious, passive lingering melodies of simulated space travels without all the hooting and hollering of background music for Star Wars. Mellow and easy listening. The drums are tight, sparse and to the point. Not overwhelmingly inspirational on any musical level, it is a collectible commodity for the collection but not for head strong intimidators. I listened to it recently and it made for good relaxing music.
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:02:52 -0400 (EDT) From: william l sallak <sallak at uakron dot edu> Subject: Re: thesis and tamm vs. smith
dear et,
thanks so much to all et'ers who've offered leads re my thesis. i really appreciate it! (and still would, if there are still unheard-from cyberfriends whohave some juicy info...) eric tamm's book on robert fripp (and also his book on eno) is available full-text for download on his website, if anyone would like to know.
all the best,
bill sallak
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:16:47 -0400 From: Brian Preston <meta4ik at mindspring dot com> Subject: Re: RIO +
A few more comments about the truly progressive music genre of RIO: Larry Peterson wrote:
"The 5uus have been through 3 different line-ups. David Kerman is the constant. My favorite is "Crisis In Clay" from the trio line-up (Kerman on Drums, Bob Drake on Bass/lead vocals and Sanjay Kumar on Keyboards). This disc reminds me of a very twisted "Yes"."
Yes! Exactly my thoughts - Crisis in Clay takes off where Relayer left off and goes way beyond it. Once you here this album, going back to Yes is like a side trip to a candy store. Bob's got the heavy 'Rick' bass sound and the biting high vocals ripping! You ought to here his solo albums! Try Medallion Animal Carpet for a real romp into uncharted territory.
"The Science Group were a one-off project (so far). This disc ("A Mere Coincidence") is absolutely awesome. Bob Drake, Chris Cutler and Stevan Tickmayer are joined by vocalist Amy Denio and Fred Frith (not Fripp) on guitars. This is experimental music leaning heavily on rock. NOTE - look for this disc under "Chris Cutler" on "allmusic.com
I bought this CD last Spring when I was playing bass with Chris Cutler in an improvisational house concert in Chapel Hill. I have been Blown Away by this album! I think I'll put it on again right now. It is great - and Chris' writing is perfect for folks interested in integrating science/physics into their progressive music staple. I tell you, it works.
"Hamster Theater is the playful side of Thinking Plague. It's a world-beat carnival with so many twists and turns that you're never sure which bazaar you're in. I highly recommend their latest, "Carnival Detournement"."
I look forward to seeing them at the ProgMan Cometh show in Seattle. For those of you who come to that Canterbury fest, look me up and say 'hi', I'll have a vendor booth there for Smokin' Granny and my other bands.
I thought every informed and wise reader/listener on ET would be aware of all the great Rock in Opposition music since it is really the genre (IMHO) that is pushing boundaries way way out in the rock world. It's where my heart is and Bob (Fripp that is) and the boys seem to float around the periphery of that world, musically speaking, in a different way.
Hope to see some of you in Seattle and then in Chapel Hill on Aug 30. Bye for now.
************************************************************************* Brian Preston/Metaphoric Music Productions Smokin'Granny http://cdbaby.com/cd/smokingranny2 (sound files/reviews) http://meta4ik.home.mindspring.com/smokingranny Krimson News Radio http://www.live365.com/stations/crim75 (SG in rotation!) Onomata http://www.umbrellarecordings.com/feature.html Groove Stream Attractor http://meta4ik.home.mindspring.com/GSA Don't Miss ProgressiveRockNight 2002 (PreProgDay '02)!! Friday August 30 Local 506 Chapel Hill, NC Featuring North Carolina's kings of the prog/fusion scene: SMOKIN' GRANNY plus Dark Aether Project (Baltimore) & French TV (Kentucky)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:22:56 -0300 From: "Jonathan Boulter" <jonathan dot boulter at sympatico dot ca> Subject: Crimson reading habits
All this recent talk about punctuation and capitalization in the works of Joyce, cummings, and Beckett has started me wondering if anyone knows of the particular reading habits of the members of Crimson. As someone who has done a bit of academic work on Beckett I'd be especially interested if anyone knows if Fripp has read or is familiar with Beckett's fiction (note: Beckett's fiction, not the drama: I'd be extremely surprised if Fripp had not heard of Beckett's Godot or Endgame). I've often thought that there's some kind of aesthetic connection between especially Beckett's late prose (say in Ill Seen Ill Said) which sees narrative and indeed grammar reduced to almost nothing and the more intensely paired down music of the 80's that Crimson was producing. Is it accidental that 80's Crimson is simultaneous to Beckett's last major prose trilogy? Yeah, probably. Perhaps I'll write another article:
"Beckett and Crimson: The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Diminution"
"`Dig me, but don't bury me'": Beckett's Crimso-Cryptic Aesthetic"
At any rate, I'd really be interested in what Fripp, Bruford, Belew read (I'd guess Belew digs the Beats, Lewis Carroll, and concrete poetry).
Best,
Jonathan Boulter
Jonathan Boulter Assistant Professor Department of English St. Francis Xavier University P.O. Box 5000 Antigonish, Nova Scotia B2G 2W5 jboulter at stfx dot ca jonathan dot boulter at sympatico dot ca
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:56:34 -0500 From: Craig <vdorje at ev1 dot net> Subject: Re: Rock In Opposition
>Thinking Plague is the darkest of the lot (think "Red"). "In Extremis" is >their masterpiece,
It`s certainly awesome, but I still prefer their previous one, "In This Life". Their previous vocalist, Susanne Lewis, was infinitely better, & the tunes had a tremendous Art Bears feel. ........Artfully crafted, & INVENTIVE!!!
Their excellent first 2 have been reissued recently also on 1 CD. THINKING PLAGUE is definitely a band to investigate for the avid Krim-head.
> although they're finishing up a new one due in September.
Yup, can`t wait!!!
.....<salivatory drool>
>The 5uus have been through 3 different line-ups. David Kerman is the >constant. My favorite is "Crisis In Clay" from the trio line-up (Kerman on >Drums, Bob Drake on Bass/lead vocals and Sanjay Kumar on Keyboards). This >disc reminds me of a very twisted "Yes".
"Crisis In Clay" is an absolute monster! There is a definite Chris Squire Rickenbacker sound, & Bob Drakes vocals *are* reminiscent of Jon Anderson, but this music is produced (by Drake) in such an intensely dense manner, that it beggars description. ESSENTIAL, period!
>Motor Totemist Guild is a twisted big band (adding brass and woodwinds to a >"rock" ensemble). > Their music captures many far-eastern influences.
Huh? Which ones?
>They >produced a series of independent releases in the 80's (available on their >"archive" series). I have "City Of Mirrors" and enjoy it a lot.
That one has a *major* Stan Kenton influence. Big band progressive never sounded quite like this before.
>Thinking Plague, David Kerman/5uus, The Science >Group, Hamster Theater, U Totem and Motor Totemist Guild.
One more addition to your great list (of incestuous groups) would be Belgium`s PRESENT (the most Krimson sounding of them all), who Dave Kerman also drums for at times. Especially their debut, "Triskaidekaphobie" ("Fear of the Number 13"). Extremely Fripp-ish guitar all over the place...........
~C
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 00:07:59 -0700 From: "Steve McMillan" <stevespy007 at hotmail dot com> Subject: Crafty Guitarists
Hello, fellow Crimheads!
The third release from the Crafty Guitarists was Get Crafty I. As far as I know, it was only released on cassette in very limited quantities. It was the third release that featured the Crafty Guitar students. I'm wondering if that tape or any part of it ended up on Show of Hands? Any help would be appreciated.
I respectfully request its release on CD, and also an HDCD Remaster of the Editions E.G. title Toyah and Fripp-The Lady or the Tiger? It is a charming reading of two short stories with musical accompaniment.
Also, I agree with Toby that we need to use good punctuation in the posts to the newsletter. As with math or musical skills, you either use it, or you lose it.
Steve M.
other WIZE we-LL aLL END UP writing THINgs nO woN can unnerstan
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 14:18:07 +0200 From: Dario Tortora <dario dot tortora at odg dot it> Subject: Re: Grammar and punctuation
In ET 998 Al Bonowitz wrote:
>As a professional copy editor, I hail Toby's call for more easily readable >posts.
Not to mention all those subscribers coming from places where English is *not* the first language. I, for instance, live in Italy and find not always easy to get through all the meanings and word-jokes of a whole digest...
Dario
-- - Mac OS for productivity. UNIX for stability. Palm OS for mobility. Windows for solitaire.
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 12:58:47 +0000 From: "Anna Rose" <kcgenesis at hotmail dot com> Subject: IN THE COURT
Hi ET,
I have IN THE COURT on CD and the track breaks are messed; MOONCHILD has two minutes in EPITAPH. Is it like this on all copies or is mine defective? (Thought I'd ask, seeing the question of the ISLANDS CD.)
Also is anyone else who gets this a teenager? I'd like to know if there is another person my age who listens to prog. Or are you all 30s+?
Thanks -Anna.
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 20:25:30 +0100 From: "Mike Dennis" <mike at pc-assistance dot fsnet dot co dot uk> Subject: Re Absolute Elsewhere
Just to add that it doesn't seem to be on CD, if you do a search on the title there are a couple of Web sites that throw up more details and pictures of the original sleeve.
Bruford's drumming is workmanlike with a few brilliant flashes as you would expect - you get the impression he did it for the money!
The original release claimed to have sounds from outer space recorded at Joderal Bank here in England (site of a radio telescope).
Mike
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 17:59:47 -0300 (ART) From: Ronald Miklos Vogel <rmvogel at yahoo dot com> Subject: TOAPP - Noise DVD
Hi All
It is a lot easier and cheaper to compile two already existing VHS concerts into one DVD (which is a remastering process) than spend some money (maybe not available to such investment) in a brand new release.
That's the answer? Maybe
Ronald Vogel (Brazil)
PS: Toby, anything special for ET 1000?
Yahoo! Encontros - O lugar certo para encontrar a sua alma gemea.
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 19:00:42 +0100 From: "Amos_Brailey" <Amos_Brailey at yahoo dot co dot uk> Subject: ALL THE DATES ARE HERE FOR THE SCHIZOID BAND
Tour Dates
Sat 24 Aug Canterbury Sound Festival: Mostly Autumn + The Muffin Men + Electric Prunes + 21st Century Schizoid Band + All About Eve + Jack Bruce & The Cuicoland Express + Diesel West Coast Mount Ephraim Gardens Faversham
Sun 15 Sep 21st Century Schizoid Band The Stables Milton Keynes
Tue 17 Sep 21st Century Schizoid Band Limelight Club Crewe
Thu 19 Sep 21st Century Schizoid Band Robin 2 Bilston
Fri 20 Sep 21st Century Schizoid Band Corn Exchange Cambridge
Sat 21 Sep 21st Century Schizoid Band Opera House Newcastle upon Tyne
Sun 22 Sep 21st Century Schizoid Band Liquid Rooms Edinburgh
Wed 25 Sep 21st Century Schizoid Band Fairfield Halls & Ashcroft Theatre Croydon
Thu 26 Sep 21st Century Schizoid Band The Brook Southampton
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 14:52:19 -0400 From: "Pablo Mardones Sarmiento" <pablomardone32 at hotmail dot com> Subject: idea to make elephant-talk even a better site
elephant talk has all the information you need related to robert fripp and king crimson, it is a great site, maybe the site could havea space for experimental groups(similar to crimson or related)to show their work on mp3 format, I think there`s a lot of great bands who would like to show their work on robert frip home...page
hope you continue doing this great job on the page
Date: 13 Jul 2002 14:41:19 -0700 From: "Greg Segal" <gsmulti at spiritone dot com> Subject: KC and the Manhattan Transfer?
Hello all, just wanted to let you know I've posted something at my site called "Dream Covers", which is sort of a cross between the Golden Throats series and a "dream team" list. The list is pretty short at the moment but about half of it is KC songs, so they get their own section. I'm taking suggestions for the list, and of course these will be credited. Here's the URL: http://www.gregsegal.com/dreamcovers.htm
Please send suggestions to: gregsegal at gregsegal dot com
thanks,
GS
www.gregsegal.com