Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #998 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 998 Thursday, 11 July 2002 Today's Topics: Rock In Opposition New CENTROZOON Album! Damned/Fripp Absolute Spacewhere tears of a waiting man/who's milkin' whom? ESPN Special w/Trey Gunn Soundtrack Re: Strange New Album? Re: Islands remaster paragraphs and punctuation You Only Talk to the Trees Slight correction Grammar and punctuation Re: Absolute Elsewhere Literary form Literary form; why are they not?; Tamm vs. Smith; I guess Joe ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:20:56 -0700 From: larry dot peterson at autodesk dot com Subject: Rock In Opposition In addition to the bands listed in ET #996, I'd like to add some of the current standard-bearers: Thinking Plague, David Kerman/5uus, The Science Group, Hamster Theater, U Totem and Motor Totemist Guild. These bands are all inter-related in that their members float between the bands. Thinking Plague is the darkest of the lot (think "Red"). "In Extremis" is their masterpiece, although they're finishing up a new one due in September. The 5uus have been through 3 different line-ups. David Kerman is the constant. My favorite is "Crisis In Clay" from the trio line-up (Kerman on Drums, Bob Drake on Bass/lead vocals and Sanjay Kumar on Keyboards). This disc reminds me of a very twisted "Yes". The Science Group were a one-off project (so far). This disc ("A Mere Coincidence") is absolutely awesome. Bob Drake, Chris Cutler and Stevan Tickmayer are joined by vocalist Amy Denio and Fred Frith (not Fripp) on guitars. This is experimental music leaning heavily on rock. NOTE - look for this disc under "Chris Cutler" on allmusic.com Hamster Theater is the playful side of Thinking Plague. It's a world-beat carnival with so many twists and turns that you're never sure which bazaar you're in. I highly recommend their latest, "Carnival Detournement". Motor Totemist Guild is a twisted big band (adding brass and woodwinds to a "rock" ensemble). Their music captures many far-eastern influences. They produced a series of independent releases in the 80's (available on their "archive" series). I have "City Of Mirrors" and enjoy it a lot. U Totem was a (temporary) combination of 5uus and Motor Totemist Guild. They added flute and bassoon to the standard "rock" band. "Strange Attractors" is a mostly rock-record and an absolute masterpiece. Their debut release ("U Totem") is also very strong - the piece "Yellow Umbrella Gallery" is a must-hear treatise on the music industry. You may also want to check out Doctor Nerve ("Every Screaming Ear" is great), Blast (the Dutch band - "Stringy Rugs" and "Sophisticated Face" are both challenging) and Ruins ("Hyderomastgroningem" shows off this twisted drum/bass duo quite well). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 20:03:57 +0100 From: "Lee Fletcher" Subject: New CENTROZOON Album! Dear ETers, Here's the latest CENTROZOON Press Release, which I know will be of interest to many of you. Fans of the ProjeKct series will almost certainly connect with this new album. Best wishes, Lee - - - - - The highly anticipated TCO:B (The Cult Of: Bibbiboo) is now available for purchase via Burning Shed's secure on-line store: www.burningshed.com Although generally released on 2nd September, customers who order via Burning Shed will receive their copies NOW, including a limited edition CENTROZOON adhesive sticker. Produced in Canada by guitarist Derek DiFilippo, and mastered in London by the legendary Simon Heyworth, this first edition comprises a special digipack CD, containing exclusive sleeve notes by (King Crimson biographer) Sid Smith. Featuring the virtuoso playing of Touchstyle guitarist Markus Reuter and synthesist Bernhard Wostheinrich, and compiled from sessions recorded during June 2000, TCO:B is a timeless statement. Several MP3 clips are now available via the Downloads section at www.centrozoon.de where you will also find convenient links to the Burning Shed site. Occupying a distinctive sonic-space, which serves as a powerful tonic for the adventurous ear. A future new music classic, TCO:B is an album you can't afford to miss. 2002 promises to be a prolific year for CENTROZOON. The band have just completed their third series of live dates, and post-production is currently underway for the forthcoming trio-configuration album, featuring the talents of (No-Man vocalist) Tim Bowness. For regular updates, exclusive audio files, and a healthy dose of wackiness please visit www.centrozoon.de Regards, Lee Fletcher (on behalf of CENTROZOON) lee at centrozoon dot de www.centrozoon.de www.burningshed.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:35:22 +1000 From: "Keenan, Owen" Subject: Damned/Fripp Thanks to Tim Walsh (tadhg236 at msn dot com) for replying to my ET post. You mentioned that you believe RF is on the cover of TheLightAtTheEndOfTheTunnel because he had jammed with the Damned. When did this happen? TheLightAtTheEndOfTheTunnel was released in 1987 and the only RF/Damned collaboration that I know of was from 1990 (the FunFactory single).Yeah, I know that Lemmy is on the cover (Lol Coxhill too), but I already know that they both collaborated with the Damned prior to 1987, unlike my knowledge of any Fripp connection. Thanks for the help O! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 00:08:45 -0700 From: "Mark Tucker" Subject: Absolute Spacewhere Re: J.Boulter / Absolute Elsewhere >They decided to hire the world's best drummer....I guess Joe Morello was >busy! No, no..that would be "I guess Jon Christensen was busy!" >Does anyone have any idea if this album is available on CD? Has anyone >heard it and can share some views of it? I recall thinking Bruford must >have been hard up for cash: if I remember correctly the album contains some >of the most bored (perhaps it was laconic, perhaps ironic?) drumming I've >ever heard. Well, yeah, the drumming was necessarily subdued as the LP was mellow space music, actually mellow space jazz and quite good (one of my favorites of the form...side A is better than side B, by the way). The stand-outs were split between Phil Saatchi's guitar-work and Paul Fishman's keyboards. The whole thing had more palpability than, say, John Serrie, but less overtness than Tangerine Dream or Pink Floyd. It's not a very well known LP but, to my mind, eminantly worthwhile. It was published at least twice in vinyl form (once as a gatefold with a large booklet; once as a single-sleeved "cheap" version, with no booklet). I haven't yet read of its release in CD, but it may have been put out by now. It seems to me that Japan would be the likeliest venue. The music didn't really have anything to do with the Von Daniken book...but then. most "text-based" works rarely have any real sonic tie-in, so.... >Any information would be appreciated. Hopefully, that helped. If you like space music with a lot of mellow atmosphere, you'll like it (again?). -marc- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:10:15 +0000 From: "Spear man" Subject: tears of a waiting man/who's milkin' whom? >Probably waiting to upgrade is a very good idea as there are various >permutations and packagings of CDs(not just KC) that get released that >seemed design to milk the customer. >First the release on CD, then the remaster, then the remaster with >extra >tracks, then different artwork with different extra tracks. sometimes waiting isn't such a good idea. you might just miss out on great sounding audio--rest in peace Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs--or pay through the nose for it later on. sometimes it's one record company milkin' another bringing its demise. IIRC, Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs and its engineers are the folks that brought you high end audio--180 gram virgin vinyl, real-time duplicated chrome cassettes, and 24 kt. gold CDs as well as original master recordings and half-speed masterings. MFSL largely went belly-up largely because of added tracks to rereleases--the allman brothers band 'the fillmore concerts' is a great example. The rather costly release on MFSL (as 'live at fillmore east') was trumped by Atlantic Records with more tracks (remastered by the original producer--Tom Dowd) and for less money. Most folks are inclined to subscribe to the theory that if I get more tracks and it costs less--it's a better deal. Since there were two more-or-less identical products albeit of differing sound quality in the marketplace--much consumer confusion was caused. (Atlantic/Polydor's rerelease came in what seemed like about a month after MFSL's release hit the market.) If you tie that to MFSL's distributor going south--leaving MFSL with substantial uncollectible receivables (MFSL couldn't get access to the funds nor the inventory)--voila you have a milked company. It's too bad, too--cause MFSL became employee-owned when the original owner retired and was set to really take off with the advent of DVD and SACD formats. Who could have done a better job than MFSL with what are going to be the transfers to DVD for the King Crimson The Noise and Three of a Perfect Pair videos? Look what waiting has done to DGM--it's certainly contracted considerably in the last several months. Hopefully, DGM will be able weather the storm. 'Tears of a waiting man'. Indeed. --spearman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:08:12 EDT From: Oidtman at aol dot com Subject: ESPN Special w/Trey Gunn Soundtrack Thanks to the person who put the post up concerning the University of Iowa wrestling program special on ESPN. The soundtrack/background music by Trey was perfect. The already intense subject matter was brought to a higher level by the music. Anyone with an idea on how to obtain this music? Thanks, Cao ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:44:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Stack Subject: Re: Strange New Album? Linda Crumlin said: > I've just searched for B. B. King albums on the > Amazon (UK) site and the > search has brought up a forthcoming release by King > Crimson on the Sanctuary > (?) label. > The title is unknown at present but the release date > is given as 19 Aug. > 2002. > None of the tracks listed are familiar - "Flood" > "Forever" "Helpless" etc. > Presumably someone has got their wires crossed here > or is this something we > should know about? I took a quick look because those three tracks sounded familiar to me, and my guess was correct. The track listing they put there is the track listing for Geoff Tate's (very) recently released solo record. Looks like an error on Amazon's part. mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:15:03 -0400 From: Michael dot Russell at mercerdelta dot com Subject: Re: Islands remaster Though the sound quality of my re-mastered "Islands" is fine, I noticed another odd glitch. The booklet sleeve reproduces the Sinfield "Islands" painting that appeared on the cover of the US Atlantic label release. To my surprise, I just realized that the booklet is backwards! The two green blob islands are on the front and the single island is on the back. My old Atlantic pressing from 1972 has the single island in front and the two on the back. Since the spine information is on the right place on the Atlantic cover, I believe this is correct. Anyone else notice this? --Michael the Most Pedantic of All Russells :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:06:21 -0400 From: "Beth El" Subject: paragraphs and punctuation I found the recent paragraph and punctuation discussion somewhat amusing. Because it seems to be a frequent topic amongst my friends, I decided to respond. Overall, I must agree with Toby, that lack of punctuation, capitalization etc..., may make great literature, but when sending in entries to E.T., the message is in danger of being lost. If an entry to E.T. is anecdotal, telling a story, free form writing may actually be a better way to deliver emotional content and the flow of thoughts which may occur at a given scene. However, when someone is delivering an argument, how many of you manage to keep listening to the person if they ramble on and on in a monotone (without periods, commas, question marks or capitals)? There is a classic example of literature without capitals and punctuation which I noticed was left out of Gordon Taylor's great literature list - The Bible. Of course, modern renditions have been punctuated, but the original Hebrew of the Old Testament (and New Testament Greek?) and Torah Scrolls are not so marked. Instead, it seems that the cantillation (musical tempo) is left to provide the flow and breaks. Overall, it would seem that when composing something of lyrical quality, it's fine to leave out the capitals, periods and everything else. However, and it seems a harder point to deliver to the youth (just kidding here), you are in danger of losing the reader if you are trying to prove a point without using punctuation. The original discussion I had with a friend over this view involved a police report he filled out. The police simply can not make use of it. They do not ever make it through all the way and draw a different, seemingly bizaar conclusion, depending upon the mood of the given detective at the time he reads it. I have read both sorts of entries to E.T., but most seem to fit into the latter, statement of fact category. Of course, if someone is sending in an E.E. Cummings quality entry, I bet Toby would appreciate the change of pace. [ hmmmm. -- Toby ] Peace and Love, Scott Cooper Congregation Beth El 222 Irvington Ave. South Orange, NJ 07079 (973)763-0111 www.bethelnj.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:22:31 -0600 From: "Michael Cox" Subject: You Only Talk to the Trees Steve McMillan writes, about I Talk to the Wind and You Only Live Twice: > The melody is virtually identical, and the number of syllables even matches > between the two phrases... Well, not really. The PHRASING is close. Here are the two themes in F, I'll bet you can figure out my symbology: ITTTW: A C, A F G...A C, A-G-F G-A-F-G... YOLT: A, D C A G...F G, A C... I used to think ITTTW was uncomfortably close to I Talk to the Trees (Paint Your Wagon?) but aside from the nearly identical lyric, again the themes are similar but not really close at all. Michael Cox ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:40:41 -0600 From: "Michael Cox" Subject: Slight correction Sorry, doing this from memory I think I got it wrong and oversimplified: (| = measure bars) (formatted to show similarities) ITTTW: |..A C, A-G-F |G...|..A C, A F |G-A-F-G... YOLT: |A, D C A |G; F|G, A |C... Notice that ITTW's theme starts in mid-measure, making the phrasing more dissimilar. Excuse me for not getting it right the first time! Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:17:29 -0700 From: "Al Bonowitz" Subject: Grammar and punctuation >Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 09:52:04 EDT >From: GORTAY at aol dot com >Subject: paragraphs & punctuation In ET996 Toby bemoans the lack of capitals, paragraphs and puntuation in a couple of letters. As a devotee of the works of Joyce, Beckett and e.e. cummins (not to mention k.d.lang) I must deplore this lack of understanding of modern literary form. [ Hmm. There's "literary form", certainly. And then there's "posts to ET". -- Toby ] Gordon Taylor As a professional copy editor, I hail Toby's call for more easily readable posts. While I don't expect everybody to conform to Associated Press style, it would be nice if ET contributors would give their submissions at least one proofreading session before sending them along. (I've been making a similar request to my writers for years, so I realize the odds are stacked against me.) And remember: Less is more. Thanks! Al Bonowitz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:56:40 -0500 From: Craig Subject: Re: Absolute Elsewhere >Can anyone share any information they may have on a bizarre album Bruford >appeared on in (I think) 1976? Correct >It was an album called "In Search of Ancient >Gods" with a band called Absolute Elsewhere. It's been years since I've >listened to it (I had it in album form: if it's been released on CD I'd love >to know): Not to my knowledge. The LP will dwarf any CD RE >but here's what I seem to recall. It was the project of some rich >Danish (?; certainly some Scandinavians) dilettanti who had a wad of cash to >spend. Dunno. It`s basically a solo effort by one Paul Fishman (he wrote it all, arranged it, played all the instruments (synths, sequencers, flute, pianos, mellotron) except guitars & perc >They decided to hire the world's best drummer and, naturally, got >Bruford (I guess Joe Morello was busy! I kid, I kid...). At any rate this >album was based on the writings of Erik von Daniken True. Has a nice photo insert (cave drawings), an excellent/thick booklet w/ numerous photos w/ the Brit/original & die-cut cover w/ William Blake`s vision of God`s visage peering through. Last two tracks (most of side B) is quite good. The rest is mostly a yawn. >(keep your jokes to >yourself). Does anyone have any idea if this album is available on CD? Has >anyone heard it and can share some views of it? Yes BBs drumming is uninspired, (seems quite vapid), but that aside, it does contain some good bits. Lotsa nice `tron, too, for those concerned. >I recall thinking Bruford >must have been hard up for cash: if I remember correctly the album contains >some of the most bored (perhaps it was laconic, perhaps ironic?) drumming >I've ever heard. Still worth a listen for the symphonic prog fan. Strong B- >Any information would be appreciated. ~C ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:06:06 -0400 From: Jim Bailey Subject: Literary form Toby, et al., [ Hmm. There's "literary form", certainly. And then there's "posts to ET". -- Toby ] I definitely have to side with Toby on this one (does that make it a "Definitive Edition?). Literary Form is fine - in literature. At the risk of this sounding like a back-handed compliment, while contributions to ET are often quite erudite (eyes?), they are hardly what could be considered literature. Lack of capitalisation, accepted grammatical practice, etc. is indeed interesting in the works of Joyce, cummings, BeKcett (:-]), et al. but when they did it they were being original. In posts to a list such as this, it merely shows: a) laziness b) lack of proper education (and I do NOT include here those for whom English may be at best a second language - many of them do a better job than those for which it is a first!) or c) a misguided attempt to appear "cool." Communication of an idea is most effective when the tools of the language are used properly. Obviously this cannot be done all the time, unless perhaps one is a top scholar in the language, and I can tolerate the occasional typo, but deliberately going against the grain in a forum intended for the dissemination of ideas and information would seem, to me, to be counter-productive. Jim Bailey p.s.: Tobi, yew definately fergot ta menshon th manny speling mistakkez. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:27:36 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Literary form; why are they not?; Tamm vs. Smith; I guess Joe Morello was busy >[ Hmm. There's "literary form", certainly. And then there's "posts to ET". -- Toby ] You mean - there's a difference?!! >Now that DGM is finally releasing "Three of a Perfect Pair" and "The Noise" on DVD, WHY are they not releasing something from the long awaited "Construkction of Light" tour or the "Level Five" tour?!? Uh - because they are doing other things instead? I give up - you tell me. >As much as it has been dismissed by some list members recently, you might check Eric Tamm's book on Fripp/King Crimson. I haven't had a chance to check out Sid Smith's book yet, but judging from the accolades it probably would be useful as well. In my opinion, Tamm's book was useful at the time it was released, but Smith had a lot more direct access to the parties who were directly involved with what was going on at the time, and as a result his book is much better. Besides, Tamm's book is out of print now. >They decided to hire the world's best drummer and, naturally, got Bruford (I guess Joe Morello was busy! I kid, I kid...). Some people would think you were serious - you can find them at alt.music.jazz. - S. np: Edgar Winter, Roadwork scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #998 ********************************