Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #996 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 996 Saturday, 6 July 2002 Today's Topics: RF & Strange Beautiful Music Earthbound & USA release dates The Damned connection-help please Rock In Opposition DGM future releases. Re: KCCC track times Re: possible club releases/remasters Album cover fonts Fripp's responsibilities in recycling live material. new re-releases master's thesis--help! Diego Souto; Trey Gunn; Centrozoon what new EP? Islands In the court, In the wake, Islands and Lizard "Paper Sleeve" ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 07:15:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Teofilus Kierto Subject: RF & Strange Beautiful Music Yes (or, rather, oh no!), it's Robert Fripp on "Frippitronic guitar" on "Sleepwalk" on the new Joe Satriani CD "Strange Beautiful Music". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 07:37:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Teofilus Kierto Subject: Earthbound & USA release dates Virgin have finally announced the release dates for "Earthbound", "USA" and "Thrak" - 5 August (limited edition versions) & 9 September. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:13:20 +1000 From: "Keenan, Owen" Subject: The Damned connection-help please I've just gotten hold of TheDamned's 1987 2LP compilation "TheLightAtTheEndOfTheTunnel", which features portraits of Damned contributors on the rear sleeve. I'm curious as to why one of the portraits is of Fripp when AFAIK RF has only collaborated with TheDamned on the 1990 single release "FunFactory" (which is obviously not on this compilation). I've checked the extensive liner notes and there is no mention of RF, yet there his portrait is (complete with caption "Fripp") right next to Capt Sensible's. Is there an uncredited contribution that I'm not aware of that predates FunFactory? Or is there some other reason? Cheers, O! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 10:49:56 -0700 From: Hb Subject: Rock In Opposition Before the thread regarding Chris Cutler also falls to the wayside, I feel it important to mention abit about the mind behind the comments (concerning Fripp, Prog, etc). In a book of his (File Under Popular: Theoretical and Critical Writings on Music '93) there is an interesting essay entitled "Progressive Music in the UK", which sheds abit of light on where our friend Mr Cutler is coming from. In his definition of 'progressive', Chris makes mention of "cooperative and collective work in the group, the unification of composition and performance, expressive improvisation and a direct communication with the listener". He also specifically mentions "what I would call directly political advances: seizing control over not only the musical content, but also over the processes of production and distribution". I would agree with him that his definition is not in accord with most other commentators. Further on, in the section entitled 1967: Psychedelia, Chris adds that "along side the term 'progressive', and indeed synonymous with it, came 'experimental'. Chris points to some of the strongest and most overlooked influences from this period: Syd Barrett, AMM, Fairport Convention, The Incredible String band, and The Soft Machine. As a footnote, another clue is dropped: "Interestingly perhaps, the decay of progressive music was partially associated with the ascendency of overt 'classical' music influences, only nineteenth-and even eighteenth-century ones, cf. E.L.P., Genesis, Gentle Giant, &c." The next section entitled 1968: The Decline, gets more to the point. "The term 'progressive' was taken over by the industry and pasted on to a clutch of groups including The NIce, Jethro Tull and Family. But all this was so much froth. Technical mastery of the instrument, application of nineteenth-century Classical music cliches to Rock instruments, Symphonic Rock and clever arrangements took the place of experiment and exploration of the unique Rock character of electric instruments and Rock form. The progressive stream dried up in the UK and moved over to the mainland of Europe. UK 'progressive' music declined into groups like Yes, Genesis, E.L.P. and Gentle Giant." So we can see that Chris does have a specific take on this period of music which might explain why the disdain for King Crimson/Robert Fripp (which are not mentioned in this particular book). I will say that Henry Cow's choice of confrontation was an honorable one. The recognition of the political dimensions of a band, a music is certainly important and highly overlooked in much of today's (and yesterday's) music culture. The idea of 'Rock In Opposition' is still a potent idea has gone mostly unaddressed. RiO has two important strands: 'By virtue of the cause to have people sing in their own language, the texts are overtly political. Second, groups draw on non-American musical sources-especially on National folk musics and other popular national forms.' I'd be curious as to what is going on 'underground' that might approach some of these ideas. Also, it should be stated that Chris points to specific music/bands to investigate; most which we are familiar with here: Samla Mammas Manna, Univers Zero, Art Zoyd, Aqsak Maboul, ZNR, The Residents, Magma, Faust, Pere Ubu, Captain Beefheart, The Mothers of Invention, Negativland..Sun Ra Arkestra,etc. Dr Howard n.p. Chris Cutler/Fred Frith Live in Prague and Washington [ OK, can we have some paragraphing action, please? Let's have paragraphs, PLEASE, OK? Thanks --Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 18:58:48 +0100 From: "Bob Astridge" Subject: DGM future releases. Suddenly out of the blue comes word from DGM Central that 'Earthbound' and 'USA' are to be released on CD in the near future. Coupled with that comes the word that 'The Noise' and 'Three of a perfect pair' are to be issued on a single DVD ! All this comes as most welcome news. It would appear that suddenly the Gods are listening to the masses, for the cries within this newsletter for these items have been frequent. R.F has in the past dismissed both Earthbound and USA when a release was requested on CD...is he mellowing I wonder ? I would suggest that the reaction to the Zoom club CD has played no small part in the sudden change of heart. I am hoping however, that the muddy sound of Earthbound will be made a bit more acceptable. This was acheived with the Schizoid Man track from the album which made it onto the Schizoid man CD single, so hopefully the rest of the album can get the same treatment. Here's in anticipation!!! Battybob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 07:00:17 +0100 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: KCCC track times >Noticed that none of the C.C. releases list track lengths (nor total cd >time) on the back of the covers. yea i noticed that as well i am someone who is really interested in the lengths of each song, espeically if they are live. to me that would indicate extended solos, different things in the songs, longer intros.. stuff like that. sometimes it simply means the track has 2 and a half minutes of audiance noise at the end before the track moves. but it would be helpful for me to know what the lengths are... thats why i emailed ET and asked people who have the CC releases how long the tracks were on certain cds... but to my frustration no one replied on the list or personally. for instance, not that i wasnt going to buy it anyway, but knowing that Zoom and Zoom Zoom were 44 and 22 minutes long would have made me much more excited to hear them. anyway, i do think its important and i wish they would include them on the back of the cd, but then again i doutb it will make me want them anymore then i already do ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 07:08:55 +0100 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: possible club releases/remasters >Other nice suggestions will also be the american leg >of 1973 2nd semester. The Arlington Texas show has a >wonderful 14 minute Fracture version with a longer >middle section and also some very funny Fripp words >replying to a guy in the audience that told him to >"play it louder" which he promptly responded "Perhaps >you should listen more attentively", causing audience >applause.... that would be incredible to hear, i cant wait for something like that. thats exactly what i mean about track lengths being advertised.. seeing as how i have like 4 or 5 recordings from that time period and i saw ANOTHER show with the same set list id be like "hmm well other then my fanatical interest in this particular incarnation of the band why do i want to buy this cd over another one" then id see that the version of Fracture is 3 minutes lnoger then the album version and think "well, of course i must have that" and did eveyrone hear the official release date for the remasters of Earthbound and USA? official release date is September 3rd.. a day that wont come soon enough! and if anyone wasnt aware... there is a deal at DGM where if you buy over 75 dollars you get 10% off. check it out [ And how about some punctuation and capitalization? PLEASE. -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 04:07:11 +0100 From: "Tom X. Chao" Subject: Album cover fonts I believe the font used on the 80's albums is ITC Fenice (pronounced fe-nee-chay). You can see it here: http://www.adobe.com/type/browser/P/P_1055.jhtml Compare with Engraver's Gothic: http://www.identifont.com/show?26H Engravers Gothic is a sans serif font, while ITC Fenice is a serif font. Another ET'er passed this info on to me several years ago. TXC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 01:37:25 +0100 From: "Donovan Mayne-Nicholls" Subject: Fripp's responsibilities in recycling live material. When EARTHBOUND, STARLESS AND BIBLE BLACK, USA, RED and even THE ESSENTIAL KING CRIMSON: FRAME BY FRAME were released there was no way to know that the CD revolution would make possible the release of archival material in state less than pristine. That, for instance, there is major overlapping of material between STARLESS... and THE NIGHT WATCH is something that can't be helped and I'm glad WATCH saw the light of day. Compare TRIO and the sound is so much better since it was possible to go back to the original multitrack masters whereas in STARLESS, the 24 bit has been done from the final stereo master. What is not acceptable is that now that Fripp knows he will be releasing further archival tapes, he doesn't properly plan and keeps releasing THE SAME STUFF under different names. VROOOM VROOOM for instance, could have been an excellent release had Fripp done a double disc featuring the entire Mexico setlist rather than compressing it to one CD and giving us again half of ON BROADWAY. I think it's a insult to all those who subscribed to the club. Worse, the versions on VV are the same edited tracks than in CIRKUS, which is itself a redundant, badly compiled disc. Fripp should NEVER again be allowed to release compilations. He doesn't know what to select from which source, steers heavily towards his favourite albums. Doesn't he realize that, other than the truly mad fans (no insult, I'm one) will buy everything and normal people will think it twice because of the level of repetition. Disc 2 of VV is longer. There was enough space in the first to put the full-length versions and then he goes and repeats an improv (Biker babes...) that is already available in THRAKATTAK! The same with the money shots in LIVE GROOVE and WEST COAST LIVE compared to the Northampton and San Francisco club releases. The same with Disc 3 of HEAVY CONSTRUKCTION which features material from the other two discs!! (why not just a two CD set with more improvs and no multimedia?). Then giving priority to bootleg tapes (Plumpton and Chesterfield 69, Central Park 74, Moles 81). Only when all professional live recordings have been exhausted should Fripp even consider such an option. Something like THE GREAT DECEIVER makes more sense but with complete concert tapes. I'm sure in ten more years Fripp will be releasing full length tapes of stuff like Glasgow, Zurich, etc. and all of us who bought the original releases will want to have the expanded versions. People are complaining about Zoom Club but at least in this case this is a first generation bootleg (he got the original reel tape from the audience) but if he ever finds a better tape of, say, Plumpton, he will be thinking of rereleasing it. It makes me mad that with all discs DGM have released so far we could probably have double the amount of music had Fripp done something like THE COMPLETE KC CONCERT SERIES. I'm sure there cannot be that many soundboard recordings from the 70s, so why doesn't he release them all in sets? I'm buying EARTHBOUND when it comes out in August, but wouldn't have been nice instead to have the complete four concert tapes? (Jacksonville is already available and the unedited SAILOR's TALE sounds much better than it'll ever do remastered from the album edit). I'm sure also that at some point in the future Fripp will release Wilmington, Orlando and Peoria in their entirety, and all the wait for Virgin to schedule a release for EARTHBOUND would have been avoided. And for those who are still dying for a rerelease of YOUNG PERSON'S GUIDE, I TALK TO THE WINF is already available in a much better compilation, BRONDESBURY, than Fripp would have ever done. A new greatest hits featuring the full length ELEPHANT TALK, the YPG remix of EPITAPH and the FBF remixes of CADENCE and BOLERO would make more sense. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 17:08:17 -0400 From: "Roland" Subject: new re-releases Is there any information available regarding the re-release of "USA"? There is a projected release date, but I'm curious to know what the contents of the cd will be? There was rumor to the whole Asbury Park gig included. Please advise. Thanks, Roland ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 22:43:44 -0400 (EDT) From: william l sallak Subject: master's thesis--help! dear et, my name is bill sallak, and i'm currently working on a master's degree in music history in akron, OH. my thesis advisor has given me the green light to do the thesis topic i wanted, which is the appropriation of minimalist composition techniques by progressive rock musicians. this obviously includes KC, especially in the Discipline/Beat/TOAPP period, and some later material as well. my hope is that someone out there would have some leads on the following info: --scholarly articles/writings on the issue --interviews with KC members of that time period, discussing aesthetic reasons for taking on such a style, or dealing with the actual structures of the music of that period --sources for scores or guitar tab (besides www.harmony-central.com) that would include tunes like "discipline," "frame by frame," "thela hun ginjeet," etc. --anything in the above categories that would relate to robert fripp's side projects, such as crafty guitar ensembles or his releases with andy summers, that continue to develop this compositional attitude please feel free to respond to ET or to me directly at sallak at uakron dot edu. many thanks, and all the best, bill sallak ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 11:34:39 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Diego Souto; Trey Gunn; Centrozoon >>I have released two works, Diego Souto / Ojos Amniticos 2.0 & Ojos Amniticos 1.5 (experimental & electronic music on Stick & sound fragments) One of them, 2.0 features Robert Fripp on voices. If you want to take a view on this:, I invite you to visit: : http://www.parasitodeluz.com.ar/diegosouto One of the songs where Robert appears is placed at the Download mp3 area. >[ I advise ETers to check this out. It is, like, awesome and gnarly, and "not half bad" as we British fellows more conservatively say. -- Toby ] Thanks for putting the site up Diego, and thanks for the push to go visit it Toby. >http://www.parasitodeluz.com.ar/diegosouto I saw Mr. Kabusaki's name on there too. I like him. >For any interested ears: Trey Gunn scored a two-part documentary that airs on ESPN in July. The program is called 'Hawkeye: Iowa's Men of the Mat'. It airs July 2 & 9 at 9 pm eastern. Trey does a kick ass job -- the show's pretty cool, too. It's a gritty, all-access look at college wrestling. Enjoy. Thanks for the heads-up Al. >ETers will be interested to know that Pat Mastelotto (together with BPM&M buddy Bill Munyon) has just completed a series of radical CENTROZOON remixes, most of which will be released later this year, either as part of a 'standard' album package, or a 'companion' CD. This is very exciting news, too. The band is great, and they continue to attract the attention (and assistance) of some awesome people. Strolling down VROOOM Avenue, - S. np: Tiktok from www.mp3.com scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 03:10:56 +1000 From: "Keenan, Owen" Subject: what new EP? from The Vicars diary: Top of Form 1 Bottom of Form 1 Tuesday 25th. June, 2002 Today at the Vicarage : The Betsy I received a privileged early mock up of the forthcoming King Crimson EP. A surprising little beast. Some wonderful reflective moments. Very different to Level 5. That young Belewbeloid boy has excelled himself. What forthcoming EP is this???????? Cheeri-O ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:59:25 +0100 From: jboulter at stfx dot ca [mailto:jboulter at stfx dot ca] Subject: Islands Dear Newsletter types: I hope I'm mailing the correct people here. I'm an avid Crimson listener, have been for years. I have, for reasons I cannot articulate, hesitated to update my albums to CDs. As a result I'm only just now getting the CD versions of some of the less, what's the word?, immediately necessary Crimson albums. Thus said, I just bought a copy of Islands: the remastered version. Here's my question: my CD has a horrendous, and horrendously strange, distortion/clicky sound that comes and goes (mostly comes) as the music plays. I wonder if this is common to all versions of this CD (I cannot imagine it is) or have I been sold a crappy copy? Having said that Islands is one of the "less necessary" albums strikes me now (after trying to listen to the music through the distortion) as rather harsh: there is some sublime work on that Cd: "The Sailor's Tale," is simply indispensable. Any information you may give me would be appreciated. Best, Jonathan Boulter "Dig me, but don't bury me." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 16:58:10 +0200 From: "Prozzz" Subject: In the court, In the wake, Islands and Lizard "Paper Sleeve" Hi ETers, I would like to know if there's any place on the web (or any of you) who is selling the slipcase, digipack, paper sleeve (call it as you want!) version of In The Court of The Crimson King, In The Wake of Poseidon, Islands, and especially Lizard... they are no more available on DGM, and I could only find the Japanese version for the expensive price of 40 to 50 $... If someone is selling copies, or know who does this, for a price around 30$, let me know please! my e-mail is prozzz at wanadoo dot fr And by the way, I'm from France! St. Elmo "There is no chance to achieve the aime without suffering" ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #996 ********************************