Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #994 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 994 Sunday, 23 June 2002 Today's Topics: Heathen Re: Tony Levin with Peter Murphy ET 992 - Prejudice - Copyrights - RIAA Encroaches! Re: Tony Levin with Peter Murphy Re: Tony Levin with Peter Murphy Elephant Talk #1000 fripp's rules for drumming Re: Bowie/Fripp Re: censure Re: ET #993 - Jim Bailey shelved studio prior to TOAPP Re: "Red" as an overture Red as overture Kees was infected Club 20 Erroneous T-Lev Report U.S.A. ON VINYL - LABORATORY RESULTS ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 01:23:54 +0100 (BST) From: sean hewitt Subject: Heathen I love Heathen by David Bowie as much as anything I've heard all year but Cameron Devlin is quite wrong to say that the album doesn't sound like any past Bowie. In fact, the album is replete with (deliberate) reminders of past glories. Where? Well, how about the first single, Slow Burn - the arrangement is a virtual facsimile of that for Heroes, right down to Pete Townshend's guitar part which, while excellent, is almost identical at times to that played by Robert Fripp on the earlier song. Slip Away and Everyone Says 'Hi' - both great numbers - revisit the sounds of Hunk Dory and Space Oddity. The title track's vast and awesome chords would have fit easily among the music on Low or Heroes. David Torn's guitar work is also very, very Fripp-like indeed, particularly on A Better Future. This isn't a criticism - I love this record which has hardly been out of the player since I bought it. But it is, in my view, a conscious and very creative attempt to produce a record that fans of the artist's several different eras would recognise as a "proper" Bowie album. It is a bid to get the good reviews that the unimaginative mainstream critics are waiting to lavish on an album they regard as a "return to form" - i.e. one that sounds like the past ones - and re-establish Bowie as a commecial artist after several disappointing performing records. The triumph of the album is that it succeeds in all these aims and still sounds contemporary and fresh. There is quite simply, no greater assembler of old materials into something new than Bowie. It's just that this time all the pieces of raw material are his. Outside, by contrast, was an astonishingly original work with little chance of appealing to the crowd who bought China Girl. Its poor sales and baffled reviews reflected its lack of "user-friendliness" even though it was amazing. It was, indeed, among Bowie's best ever albums. And one notes the significant detail that one UK broadsheet review, while praising the more familiar Heathen to the skies, at the same time took the time to dub Outside "unlistenable". Cheers Sean Hewitt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:54:35 -0700 From: Randy Greene Subject: Re: Tony Levin with Peter Murphy Ianreyn at aol dot com wrote : > I had the pleasure of seeing Peter Murphy in Boston this past Wednesday and > was surprised and delighted to see (and hear) none other than Tony Levin on > bass and Chapman Stick. Actually, it was Fergus Marsh (who does bear a striking resemblance to TLev). See http://www.petermurphy.org/dust/band.html Randy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 02:03:29 +0100 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" Subject: ET 992 - Prejudice - Copyrights - RIAA Encroaches! I must say, thanks to Michael Russell for his your post today (ET #992), which touched upon a lot of the same irritations I have at times, mostly with folks who assume they know what other people think and believe, such that they can pigeonhole and generally dump on them. I've not bothered to send anything to the Big Five record companies, since I figured they'd either shelve the work and refuse to publish it, or treat and pay me like dirt. Or both. Not much attraction there! RF's example to us all on the economic level has been of constant interest to me since around 1980, during the "Under Heavy Manners"/"God Save the King"/League of Gentlemen period. Productions done for three major US and European companies, still on his terms (with the possible exception in the Sacred Songs collection, which finally got released too, and by RCA of all people!), and not one apology in the process. Modern heroes don't have to ride horses and carry guns anymore. They've got pens and guitars. It's a sad day for music though. The recommendations RIAA pushed on the Copyright Office regarding royalties sufficient to put many webcasters out of business - and keep a lot of indie artists out of the way of the Big Five record companies. Ah, making the world safe for Britney Spears! If you're interested in seeing what this does to you as a musician or songwriter - or as a listener! - go look at http://www.copyright.gov/carp/webcasting_rates_final.html. Tell the copyright office you're sorry they caved in to a group of corporations that have no interest in the free exchange of ideas, much less a free market for music and musicians. The RIAA have successfully delayed the access in the US to EVERY recording media introduced since reel-to-reel, all the way up to CD-R/DVD-R. The Big Five's creative pool is drying up due to their dinosauric behavior, but especially the technical spreading-out of the way we can all record, publish, and broadcast our own music now, without crawling across the carpet to some cigar-chomper in LA. Well, broadcast for now. Because the rates approved today make it difficult for independent webcasters not under the thumb of the Big Five record companies to operate. And that's bad for all of us, creator, performer, and listener alike. No matter what the musician's union you don't have to belong to anymore tells you. There's still time to make your opinion known on this. Go to the page url'ed above and send your comments to the Copyright Office, and go to your Congressman's and Senator's web pages, and express yourself there, too. Democracy has this problem: it requires participation of the populace to remain representative of what that populace wants. Tell them what you want, and what you believe is right. Sorry about the harangue, but Michael started me off on this rant before bedtime. :) Hm, sounds like a late-night 1-minute show before turning off for the night: Rant Before Bedtime. Nah. Stephen P. Goodman EarthLight Productions * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week! http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery - Cartoons! http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack - More Cartoons! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:11:30 -0700 From: Mark Wilson Subject: Re: Tony Levin with Peter Murphy > I had the pleasure of seeing Peter Murphy in Boston this past Wednesday and > was surprised and delighted to see (and hear) none other than Tony Levin on > bass and Chapman Stick. That wasn't Tony; it was Fergus Marsh, who from a distance does happen to look like Tony. Go to http://www.petermurphy.org/dust/band.html for more information on Peter's current touring band. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:57:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin Subject: Re: Tony Levin with Peter Murphy Ianreyn at aol dot com wrote: > I had the pleasure of seeing Peter Murphy in Boston this past Wednesday and > was surprised and delighted to see (and hear) none other than Tony Levin on > bass and Chapman Stick. Peter's voice was in fine form -- very powerful, and > he's quite the showman too -- and his band for the tour are top notch. If > anyone has a hankerin' dark, hypnotic, Middle-Eastern infused rock with ample > doses of T-Lev's signature rumblings then I would heartily suggest catching > Peter Murphy at a club near you. If those were T-Lev's signature rumblings, they were being forged. The bald headed bass/stick player in PM's band is Fergus Marsh. 8) -Adam ---- T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.darkaether.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 20:57:06 +1000 From: Chris Keane Subject: Elephant Talk #1000 I note we are rapidly approaching edition #1000 of ET. Putting aside some minor quibbles, I have always thoroughly enjoyed the opinions, observations, queries and all the other things which have found their way into ET. It may be a herculean task and I certainly don't expect it to happen BUT.....has anybody thought about compiling a special "best of" collection from the first 1,000 ETs? I've only been receiving the newsletter for the last 10 months. However, in that short period of time I have read some classic stuff, and by "classic" I mean everything ranging from well considered mini-essays to inane personal attacks on various KC alumni to measured and sometimes not-so-measured responses to those personal attacks. It would be great if somebody could round up the top 30.....things like Adrian Belew's brilliant stream-of-consciousness reply to the moron that questioned his ongoing role in KC (which I only know about because Sid Smith referred to it in his wonderful book). I'd also love to know if Bill Bruford or Gordon Haskell have ever made contributions to ET - I've seen their contributions to various rock-docs and read some of their interviews...it would be fair to say that neither of them are known for mincing words!! So how about it? Its only talk...elephant talk [ Well, the archives are all out there. If anyone would like to try to make such a "best of" issue, please do. The ET team don't have the time on their hands, I'm sorry. But people, please cooperate Perhaps Chris would like to help coordinate? -- Toby ] Cheers, Chris Sydney, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 03:53:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Hywel Davies Subject: fripp's rules for drumming does anyone know the 15 instructions/suggestions that Fripp gave to Bruford during the "Discipline" sessions? Sid Smith's book mentions a couple, but i was curious as to the others... hywel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 13:11:05 -0300 (ADT) From: "John S. Gray" Subject: Re: Bowie/Fripp I was fortunate to see the Bowie Special on A&E. I'm now more of a Bowie fan than I was before. It was interesting to see the onstage band, tightly rehersed through DB's entire repertoire, up for any challenge. The guitarists were able to mimic Fripp's licks from the appropriate albums pretty convincingly, or it seemed to me after a martini. The Eno Skysaw guitar came across well, also. What amazed me was how gracefully at ease Bowie looked with the situation. He was having the time of his life, giving and receiving with equal measure. Also I must say; if I look that trim when I reach Bowie's age, I shall say a heartfelt prayer of thanks. JG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 11:39:05 -0500 From: Craig Subject: Re: censure >Yeah to Toby for killing the wives/girlfriends topic! Boo. Welcome change, I say. Personally, I found it a far more enlightening/interesting topic than a vast majority of the posts routinely offered here. How can women be encouraged to appreciate Krimson if they can`t express themselves on the experience of being female KC 'audients'? > Especially after >Josette was slagged here for her posts about Trey. That was different altogether. It became constant, was by a single individual/groupie, offered no insight to the music,.... & surely did become tiresome. (As is expected w/ 'cult of personality'). ******************************************************* RE: Chris Cutler As one of the progenitors of "Rock-in Opposition" & the driving force behind Henry Cow, Art Bears, News From Babel, etc... I always enjoy hearing his opinions, (though I often tend to disagree). That`s what it`s (a forum) all about right? He`s one of the most important drummers in modern music, & his ReR label cannot be praised enough. ~Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 12:34:53 -0700 From: John Brower Subject: Re: ET #993 - Jim Bailey Jim, It took courage to share that. I am very sorry you lost your wife so suddenly, so young and under such circumstances. My fiancee, a music teacher in China, was murdered by a student in August 2000. King Crimson has been an essential part of my listening since 1969, and even more so in the last two years. I have often listened to "A Blessing of Tears" since her death. Jim, if you would like to talk more, e-mail me directly Peace, John B. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 22:23:13 +0200 From: "Xavier Roca Domingo" Subject: shelved studio prior to TOAPP Hi! I also NEED listening to the supposed album between Beat and TOAPP. Xavi. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 18:42:37 -0500 From: "Proginoskes" Subject: Re: "Red" as an overture > "Christian Hess Araya" wrote: > > I now think that perhaps it was never meant to be a > stand-alone song, but rather just an overture, in the classic sense, to the > rest of the album ... Wonder if anyone else has experienced the same > feeling. An interesting idea ... If so, "Vrooom" should fall under the same category: an overture, which leads (via "Marine 475") to "Dinosaur". The two songs sound a lot alike. (In fact, when they started playing "Red" in Phoenix, I thought it was "Vrooom" for a minute ... They hadn't done anything pre-80s before then.) -- Christopher "HeKcman" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 02:41:15 -0400 From: Pour_Eric Subject: Red as overture Christian Hess wrote: "In fact, I now think that perhaps it was never meant to be a stand-alone song, but rather just an overture, in the classic sense, to the rest of the album: an instrumental opening, designed to set the tone for what comes next, leading beautifully into the cello notes with which "Fallen Angel" begins." I've always felt that the Red album was the most "symphonic", in form and feel, of all KC album, with a lively intro, a softer passage, a rythmic movement , a "scherzoesque" improv and the great finale... And the album version remains my favorite interpretation of Red, mostly due to its strange guitar fuzzed-sound, neither too loud nor too soft... 'til next post, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 08:50:25 +0200 From: "Kees van Dongen" Subject: Kees was infected Sorry all, but you may have had crapp Email from me. This was the result of a W32.YAHA.F@mm virus I was infected with. Please make sure that you are not infected as well by this. Again my apologies, Kees ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 03:58:05 -0400 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Club 20 >Obligatory Crim content: For those who are waffling on whether or not to >purchase Club 20... the quality is abyssmal. For diehard bootleg fans only, >IMHO. ive actually been meaning to comment on that.. after a few days of extreme agony waiting for Zoom Club to arrive in the mail, i finally got it and it was well worth the purchase. im very veyr excited by this release! i think its phenomenal, i think it is a necessary edition to any real krim-heads collection especially if they are fanatical about the LTIA band. I mean, sound quality aside it is a document of the bands progression..where they started from. I mean just hearing the songs before they were fine tuned into what they are on what i consider to be one of the most incredible albums in history... for instance: Book Of Saturday is very different with Bill experimenting on a drum beat in the background and different things going on that differ from what is on the album.. the words are different and it was at that point called "Daily Games" i believe. Granted, the sound quality is poor and you cant make out exactly what the words are, but you know thye are different. and Easy Money as a completely different opening , its a much easier and carefree song, it has a whole different attitude to me. And the Improv, oh the improv! Zoom is 22 minutes and Zoom Zoom is 44! i had no idea what i was getting into! Yes, the sound quality is by far the worst ive heard so far, buit on the other hand I was surprised by how decent is was considering what I expected. It really isnt that bad. I turn my stereo up so i can hear as much of it as possible, but its not like its unenjoyable. This release is a necessary club release, and im more then glad that it was put out. It also has a great liner notes by Sid Smith appropriately titled "The Benifits of Drowning", which was the way Muir described the show. isnt that enuogh to make any Crimson fan want to hear this release? I am so happy i bought this CD. The sound is bad, but not THAT bad. It also makes me appreciate the absolute brilliance that the Larks' Tongues In Aspic album is. Its obviously not the best versions of any of the songs, but the point is this is a formative show and you get to hear the songs being developed on stage. its just amazing. its definately musically the most interesting release so far that ive heard. i highly suggest having a listen. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 14:20:59 EDT From: Ianreyn at aol dot com Subject: Erroneous T-Lev Report Yes cja, your'e absolutely right. PM's websight indicates that it's Fergus Marsh, who bears an uncanny resemblance to Tony Levin, on stick. A great show nevertheless. And it looks like the US portion of the tour has concluded. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 14:29:33 -0400 From: "MALCOLM XERXES" Subject: U.S.A. ON VINYL - LABORATORY RESULTS I do not understand why it is that MR. JOHN WETTON "actually remembers all of the words" to "EASY MONEY". Please elaborate. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #994 ********************************