Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #990 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 990 Saturday, 15 June 2002 Today's Topics: What Pete Townshend Thinks about King Crimson wives and compromise KC Barbershop Re: Virgin remasters 2 Kwik 2 Dis, Miss! "definite" tracks... Hackett/Fripp in-joke? Zoom Club/KCCC/Next Remasters folk cover? Definitive/mix tape Anniverary editions, USA 2, KC Studio Unreleased, Definitive KC King Crimson Barbershop Quartet Re: Wives Thunderbird; what's in the muck; The KC Barbershop KC Barbershop/mixes yellow absent lovers Re: the Vicar USA, Female Crimheads, DVDs Women Band Leader + KC ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:13:19 -0500 From: Gerardo Liedo Subject: What Pete Townshend Thinks about King Crimson Who needs yesterday papers? Sometimes they are fun. I scanned this ad from Rolling Stone No. 49, December 27, 1969. It's a full page ad, so I scanned only this portion, the rest is the cover. Check it out! http://www.albec.net.mx/personales/rocksoff/h-kingcrimson-whatpetethinks1969.jpg I couldn't convert it to a text via OCR, but it's nice to see it as it appeared. Saludos Gerardo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:17:37 +0800 From: Errol Tout Subject: wives and compromise Jordan Clifford asked 'how many ETers have significant others that share musical tastes?' As you get older Jordan, you will learn the wonderful minefield that we married blokes call 'compromise'. My wife is a professional musician and I'm not. After ten years, all that we have managed to agree on is that she is brilliant and I'm crap. Mind you, when the neighbours are annoying her, she knows where to find 'Red' Errol H. Tout ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 01:26:43 EDT From: Elecat at aol dot com Subject: KC Barbershop Hullo! The "King Crimson Barbershop" appeared on the "Frame By Frame" boxed set as well as the "Abbreviated King Crimson" CD single, which was assembled for people with "short attention spans." ;-) It was recorded in 1983 and Tony Levin is credited with all four vocal parts. It's actually pretty funny. Sample lyrics: "So settle back and have some fun and tap your foot in twenty-one." Peace, John Marr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:18:42 +0200 From: Laurent Masse Subject: Re: Virgin remasters >From: Luis c >Subject: KC 81/84 remasters cds >I think discipline records make large editions of >the old records but forget this ones. >------------------------------ >From: "Donovan Mayne-Nicholls" >Subject: USA: NOT EVERYTHING IN THE GREAT DECEIVER, remasters, when? > Now, both live albums have reportedly been already remastered at >Sanctuary. So when the hell are they going to be released? They have been >dropped from the DGM page. I suggest all people who want them send a >petition either through the guestbook at DGM or this newsletter. I also >suggest the administrators of this site to run a poll to force Fripp by >popular demmand to once and for all put'em out! The remasters belong to Virgin. DGM only advertises and sells them through their website. So Fripp is not the right target for a poll. Virgin is. But that said, they probably don't care at all. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 01:19:14 -0700 From: "Mark Tucker" Subject: 2 Kwik 2 Dis, Miss! Re: Iain Kitt": King Crimson and Henry Cow: My two favourite bands of all time. >One difference that's not been mentioned is politics. Henry Cow were all >seen as part of the anti-capitalist struggle. Naive perhaps in >retrospect... I disagree. Ive said elsewhere that Im eternally grateful to the RIO groups for one major statement that worked like a koan: their assertion that all western culture is the result of capitalism. When I first read that, I thought: Oh. come on!; now, I think: Geez, they were dead on the money! Not naive but prescient. >Chris Cutler's antipathy to King Crimson and Fripp possibly partly reflects >this Thats far more plausible than any reason Ive read yet. >KC got, mistakenly, associated with the likes of Yes, ELP etc. Disagree again. They were rightly lumped in with progs best and Fripp never protested that, that I saw. Thi s automatic dunning of the best prog bands is the musical equivalent of carrying the white mans burden: unnecessary and disingenuous. >I can imagine Cutler being fairly dismissive of Fripp's rather naive views >on the role of DGM as some sort of supposedly new 'ethical' business as >well. We may note that he has nothing better to supplant it, either theoretically or in practice. >Fred Frith is undoubtedly the better guitarist. I understand this and dont agree but it seems to be a debate along the lines of: which is the better fruit, an apple or a pear? >'Clearing' on John Zorn's Tzadik label Zorns fairly unimpressive, as is most of his labels output...along the same level as the prodigiously mediocre Bill Laswell and his label and works. >But that solo in 'A sailor's tale'... nothing like it by anyone else. I think its a huge mistake to dismiss Fripp on any level. What I see, usually, is a jealousy with his success primarily (and I have no doubt that occupies Cutlers opinion as well), an envy with his intelligence secondarily, and a frustration in attempts to achieve his musical aptitude as a tertiary. He, along with Eno, has been one of the most influential musicians of our time (oddly, mostly by second- and third-hand effect) and its either naive or blindered to resort to academic polemics to try to dislodge him from his rightful place. >None of Fripp's pretentious claptrap Well, that IS a problem. I dont know why he prefers such stilted, painfully obvious Lookit me! Im SO modest! a form of communication, but he does. Its actually the only fault I can find with him. >Go to http://www.rermegacorp.com/misc.shtml - it's worth a look. Killer site! Thanx! -marc- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:54:00 +0200 From: Roderich von Detten Subject: "definite" tracks... good evening hippies, sorry for contributing to this silly game... here's my list: 69: schizoid 72/72: sailor's tale 73/75: easy money 80s: neurotica dt: thrak dd: construction of light greetings roderich ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:22:56 +1000 From: "Keenan, Owen" Subject: Hackett/Fripp in-joke? Note: UK Magazines take a couple of months to get here (Australia) so please forgive me if this has already been covered and I've just forgotten. ****************************** RECORD COLLECTOR mag #272 (April 2002) features an interview with Steve Hackett. Hackett is asked if he is still open to a Genesis reunion to which he replies, "There's a guitarist that'd be perfect for the job who's in King Crimson!" (page 73) Knowing that RF has suggested in the past that Hackett would be a good Fripp "substitute" in the event of a Crimso69 reunion (of which RF is *not* interested, but gives his blessing), I wonder if this return compliment is in fact an in-joke between the two... and have we all been taken in? Cheers, O! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:11:20 +0100 From: David Woland [mailto:dmwoland at hotmail dot com] Subject: Zoom Club/KCCC/Next Remasters Hi all, First off, I'd like to thank all of you out there who make this possible, and who care enough (maybe TOO MUCH) about all things Robert Fripp and King Crimson. I've been meaning to post for a long time but simply haven't, so hear goes my first. Like many of you, I adore the 1972-1974 version of KC, and I've actually had an old bootleg of the Zoom Club performance for a number of years now - a mind-numbingly terrible, awful, just plain BAD bootleg. Possibly the worst in creation. Compared to it, the KCCC version's quality is simply amazing. The bootleg sounds like it was recorded by someone standing OUTSIDE the club. I wonder if both it and the KCCC version were from the same source...if so, the geniuses at DGM worked wonders on it. Club 20 is definitely one of those instances that prove that the King Crimson Collector's Club is NOT a pointless endeavor for DGM - quite the contrary. And, since every Club release is available to the general public now, I feel that everyone should put their money where their mouths are, Mr. Fripp has said, and buy 'em up. Once I have money to put near my mouth, I'm buying everything I don't have already. As far as sound quality is concerned, however, I'd have to say that Club 15 (Live at Mainz) is by far the best of the 72-74 line-up. And the performance itself is awesome - Dr. Diamond roars, and the version of Exiles has to be, in my opinion, the best of all that are available. Now for a question: Does anyone know anything about the fate of the next three "mini-vinyl" remasters (USA, Earthbound, and Thrak)? I want them, damn it! Cheers, Woland P.S. - Just who the hell is the Vicar? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:12:05 +0100 From: alexis rondeau [mailto:giantalex007 at hotmail dot com] Subject: folk cover? Hi, I'am looking for a folk artist someone posted about on the list about two months ago to bring to our attention some sort of Thela Hun Ginjeet (I think) cover. And there was a link to lisen to it online... Anyway I loved it and would like to hear it again. Unfortunately I was in a rush at the time and I didn't propely take note of it... So if anyone can point me the name of the artist/and the song/and where I can find it, that would make my day! Thank you for your help. Alx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:12:20 +0100 From: ROGER JEFFERY [mailto:superfurryrog at hotmail dot com] Subject: Definitive/mix tape My vote goes to `Fracture': I) One of the best examples of Fripp's incredible compositional clout, and his ingenious use of patterns. II) Fripp's guitar, and the interplay with Wetton/Bruford/Cross-stunning. III) Captures the ferocity of a live performance from arguably their creative and performing peak (although I wasn't there, I would imagine Wetton's devastating bass would back this up). IV) Over 11 minutes of constant exhilaration represents outstanding value for money. As for Jordan's mix tape, the nigh-impossibility of reducing Crimson to a few discs is testament to what Robert Fripp and his esteemed assemblages have achieved over the years; they have maintained an incalculably high standard of music for over 30 years. Listen to ELP's `Affairs of the Heart' (worryingly featured on their recent Best Of collection!), compare it with `Tarkus' and this gives a clue to how difficult it must be to maintain such high standards. However, if you want some convenient discage, perhaps the live albums are a good idea; VROOOM VROOOM (for example) combines the best of the 80's material with the best of THRAK and also includes interesting double trio interpretations of `c21SM', `Red', `TD' and `LTIAptII'. Similarly, the Wetton-Fripp-Cross-Bruford era bands incorporated the likes of `Cat Food' in their sets. Whilst making allowances for various constraints such as tape availability/quality, it can be assumed that Fripp, Singleton etc will have put a lot of thought into these various live compilations, and the wealth of CDs already available means that you are bound to find a compilation to suit your needs. `Cirkus' is recommended. `Affairs of the Heart' is not. Roger Jeffery ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:15:22 +0100 From: lawrence moseley [mailto:moseleylawrence at hotmail dot com] Subject: Anniverary editions, USA 2, KC Studio Unreleased, Definitive KC Hello all, Still wondering, how come the 80s Crim releases are thirtieth anniversary editions? By my count it is now 21, 19 and 18 years respectively for these blessings to have been given to the sweaty masses... Mind you I saw a copy of the Wall with a 30th anniversry label on it I assume that somebody is so happy they can hardly count....(for those so happy it is now nearly 23 years old).... While USA Live is hot on the presses at the moment, does anyone remember the Schizoid Man EP. Mentions an album called USA 2. USA 2!, where, what, when was, is this? A change of the RF mind perhaps...I've asked before, any ideas anyone? And as I have asked before, for a club release PLEASE, the album of music that KC shelved before TOAPP. This, unless I am much mistaken would be great, a whole studio album waiting ...but now just gathering dust. Just my 10p worth for the definitive KC. just Chooing one song /piece. To me this is, as ever, Starless. It has all the elements, great melody and singing (no crap lyrics like certain other moments on Red), dynamics, imaginative instrumental sections, varying rhythms and tempos and a fabulous 'Phoenix Rising' climax when the mellotrons (2 I think),add so much power to the peak. 12 minutes of heaven. Perfect for commercial trendy Top 40 radio, fit right in... (would it not?) RED is the album (IMO naturally...) Era definitive-ness, more fun... 69 21st Schizoid Man. Truly ahead of it's time, in fact only just coming into vogue now... 70 -72 The Un-Live Band, Lizard. A Sailor's Tale is tempting but Lizard is a cornucopia of delights not just a guitar solo. 73 -74 I've already raved about Starless but this is a different section so... LTIA 1 and 2. Fractured is so tempting to sneak in there as well.... 80s Crim. Frame By Frame is my candidate. A song of such stature. If someone wanted a demo of instrumental structure then a combo of Discipline / Indiscipline. I love KC suites of music. 90s Double Trio, definitive moment (another suite) Vroom Vroom, all of them. Dinosaur's my favourie song ( regrettabky relating to the lyrics blast it...) but the Vrooms ith the Coda is such a defining moment of power and virtuosity. 21st Century Crim. LT4. With lyrics or without this is a show piece moment if ever I've heard one. TCOL is a good alternative just to have those arpeggios showing how rhythm should be propelled from a guitar viewpoint. I hope to have my opinions changed by Nuevo Metal. Plenty of releases to look forward to. ciao for now Lawrence ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:47:26 -0400 From: "Roy Miles" Subject: King Crimson Barbershop Quartet In ET 988 Nik wrote: What's the deal with this song? Is that actually them singing in barbershop? or just some people they hired that say "I'm Robert.." ? Also when did this appear. I know it is on Three of a Perfect Pair remastered (as I have it) but was it a B-side or what? Actually, it's Tony Levin's voice overdubbed on all parts.. He threw that together for the Frame by Frame boxset, released in 1991.. It's in the liner notes for that compilation.. Roy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:47:21 -0600 From: "amelia ray" Subject: Re: Wives Jordan Clifford wrote: >does anyone here have a wife that is a equal or bigger fan of >KC than they are? it just seems to reinforce the unfortunate fact that >there are way more male fans than female fans. > >... and one more. i was recently turned onto kc by my bassist (male). i have listened to little else in the last two months, making my way through discipline, beat, three of a perfect pair, belew's here, fripp's exposure and live and compilation cds. i've also managed to turn my girlfriend, cousin and a friend from new york onto kc, so there's four new females, including myself. also, the last two nights in a row, i've played 'matte kudasai' at my gigs, and a few females were actually paying attention. i suppose it's odd to think of music as having an audience of a specified gender, but i do notice the more technical styles tend to garner less attention from females. probably has something to do with exposure. i mean, where are you going to hear about king crimson? probably from a musician, a sound engineer, or an avid musical historian, but certainly not from a mainstream source. therefore, you'd have to be 'on the inside track' to even hear about this sort of music, either as a musician (and one who leans a little to the technical side to appreciate odd times, 9th chords, 6th harmonies, etc.) or a sound and/or production enthusiast. i find that women's presence in those fields is still a relatively small number. in any event, a fan is still a fan, and as long as there is a love for the music, gender is irrelevant. -- http://www.ameliaray.net next show: 6/18/02, talk of the town, oakland, ca seen on a bumper sticker: 'the real axis of evil: bush, cheney, ashcroft' -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:41:02 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Thunderbird; what's in the muck; The KC Barbershop >Back to another topic: has anyone being succesful in ripping the Thunderbird track from P@t and Trey that's being aired in Krimson News Radio? It's a 45 minutes jam in three parts and I'm eagerly looking for it! Any news? Any info? I would love it if they made it available for purchase at www.firstworldmusic.com. Just an idea, guys. >You can finally hear what's in the muck on Morbund the Burgermeister, clearly Awesome, I think you have just sold it to me! >Subject: The King Crimson Barbershop song... What's the deal with this song? Is that actually them singing in barbershop? or just some people they hired that say "I'm Robert.." ? Tony Levin sings all four parts. >Also when did this appear. I know it is on Three of a Perfect Pair remastered (as I have it) but was it a B-side or what? The first place(s) I saw it were the Frame by Frame boxed set and The Abbreviated King Crimson. - S. np: Gordon Beck Quartet, Experiments with Pops scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:29:29 EDT From: GenoTT at aol dot com Subject: KC Barbershop/mixes The KC barbershop tune, as I understand it, wasn't a B-side but just a goofy thing Tony Levin did for a laugh while the band was recording Three of a Perfect Pair. He sings all the parts himself, and as near as I can tell he also does the "I'm Billy, I'm Bobby" etc. parts in the first line. Before this becomes a dead thread, I'll just add that my GF likes Crimson as well.. not nearly to the same obsessive extent that I do, but I burned her a CD of a few TCOL-era songs (with a couple older nuggets from the D-Trio and one from Discipline) several months ago and she tells me she still plays it pretty often. I think I'll keep her. -g ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:17:31 +0200 (MEST) From: rikki dot nadir at gmx dot net Subject: yellow absent lovers re: yellow absent lovers; sarah: there IS a yellow version of "absent lovers" & i hold it in my hand right now. it is the japanese version (pccy-01238) 98.5.20 (98.5) (pony canyon) yx. tracklist is identical with red/blue versions. by the way: the backcover has a tricoloured ribbon running along the top. the colurs are red, blue, & yellow. -- rikki nadir "smash the system with the song!" GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:48:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Kohm Subject: Re: the Vicar The Vicar ? Could it possible be Anthony Phillips ? Maybe , I don't know . Look at Phillips albums ; from '78 " WISE AFTER THE EVENT " w / KC boys Michael Giles - drums and Mel Collins - soprano sax & flutes , The Vicar - guitars , keyboards & sundries ( sound familiar ) Anthony Phillips - vocals & harmonica ? and from '79 " SIDES " w / Mike Giles - drums & onion bhajee and Mel Collins - tenor sax , Anthony Phillips - guitars , keyboards & obelisk ... The Vicar - vocals ? You tell me , I 've been curious for years . By the way both albums have other numerous gifted musicians . If you like early CRIMSON I think you will really enjoy these classic Brit albums . TURTLE DA MANNNNN OF TURTLE CIRCUS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:35:27 -0700 From: "Steve McMillan" Subject: USA, Female Crimheads, DVDs To all fellow Crimheads out there: I respectfully request the timely release of the following:. King Crimson-Earthbound (Of all the official recordings released to date, this one needs remixing/remastering more than any of them. This is a very distorted sounding LP, even in mint condition. I realize that this one will be a difficult job, since the original recording is apparently of such low quality, but this show is an important document of the band in a rare configuration.) It was announced as coming on CD in 1997 for Chrissakes! King Crimson-USA. Seriously, this is a fun album to listen to, and the song Asbury Park contains a real signature performance from Bill Bruford. The Frame By Frame box set just doesn't do it for me-I gotta have that blue cover with the lady's hand holding that silver bar with King Crimson stamped on it to make the experience complete! Doesn't that remind you of the hand of the legendary Arthurian Lady of the Lake holding up Excalibur from the bosom of the water? With all the welcome recent email from female Crimheads, I'd think they'd appreciate that cover artwork. Another reason we need USA on CD is that it's the only collaboration between King Crimson and Eddie Jobson. King Crimson-Frejus, The Noise on DVD King Crimson-Three of a Perfect Pair on DVD King Crimson-Old Grey Whistle Test on DVD ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:54:04 -0800 From: Andrew Benzie Subject: Women Band Leader + KC I recently turned my band leader on to King Crimson, she's really digging it. In fact, she blew me away last night by performing a solo version of Matte Kudasai at our gig. Now if we can just get the rest of the band to like it! ;) If anyone is interested in hearing her music (very Crimson, partly why I joined the band) go to: www.ameliaray.net and give it a listen, she plays ALL the instruments on the recordings. Cheers! ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #990 ********************************