Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #99 Discipline, Number 99 Tuesday, 29 June 1993 Today's Topics: USA vs Bootlegs more on the Quintet SF early show Cheerful Insanity The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles & Fripp An Angel Moves Too Fast To See Crowd Yammerings Tube fun Fripp & Sylvian news It's a baffling world frippertronics earthworks New King Crimson *DELAYED*/Adrian Belew News [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Hi everyone. My aplogies for the delay in getting this issue out. Your smiling editor's professional life is rather hectic at the moment! One consequence of this is that a report of last week's Fripp workshop and concert will be held over till issue 100, which will also feature an interview Discipline reader Mark Butler's conducted with Trey Gunn. --- Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ASAEL at vms dot huji dot ac dot il@cs.man.ac.uk Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 21:32 +0300 Subject: USA vs Bootlegs Hi all, I hope i'm not grave-digging here, but i want to ask for some opinion from those of you who can compare between the Crimson live performence ability as manifested on the USA official lp on one hand, and on bootlegs from the 73-75 epoch of the band on the other. Recently i got hold of USA, and i think it's great. It's just that i haven't got a scale by which to judge it. Anyway, i can't understand why RF has taken grounds against it, as far as refusing to re-issue it on CD, along with _Earthbound_ (which i'm yet to hear, but regarding the line-up seems more reasonable). And if i am grave-digging on this one, please reply to my personal mail-box, i.e. ASAEL at VMS dot HUJI dot AC dot IL Cheers, RamZ. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 14:46:04 -0700 From: Malcolm Humes Subject: more on the Quintet SF early show Since so many others have commented on the SF Quintet shows already I'll just add a few observations: At one point during the early show Trey Gunn did a stick solo - to me the piece sounded very familiar - I believe it was a Paganini violin piece, one of those that was supposed to be so technically complex that it could barely be played by the virtuouso violinists of the composer's era. The same piece has been done on guitar by Steve Vai in the film "Crossroads" where the riff if played by "the devil's guitarist" (Vai) in a guitar duel. Trey offered a powerful rendition, though it seemed a bit shorter than I recall from Vai's version. Paolo Valladolid wrote: PV> > the only thing Robert seems PV> > to have not passed on is the sense required to build these looped PV> > pieces. Then again, maybe he just wanted to be the only one doing it PV> > onstage. John M. Relph wrote: JR> I do believe that Mr Gunn was contributing to these as well, but perhaps it JR> was my ears deceiving me. I'm pretty certain that during at least some of the Frippertronics looping that I saw Trey contributing. At various parts of the show Trey was gettnig some great "fripp-guitar" sounds from his stick and I think he also was doing some looping with it. He had a pretty complex set up of at least 3 volume-style pedals that seemed possibly identical to Fripp's gear. PV> >* Finally, my friend and I also had the distinct impression of a Master/ PV> > student relationship. The Crafties were like monks, sitting in rapt PV> > attention before their Master, while Trey stood in the center, PV> > anchoring the stage. [...] JR> I felt it was more a three-part collaboration. Fripp obviously can work JR> alone and has. Mr Gunn is also working a solo act, as shown by the release JR> of his solo album. The California Guitar Trio however are definitely a JR> trio. They work as a unit. Therefore the most logical arrangement of JR> these three units, Fripp, Gunn and the CGT, is to position them separately JR> on the stage, just as we've seen them do in concert. As I said above, I JR> don't believe the relationship between the CGT and Mr Fripp is one as JR> simple as Master and Students. At one time, a few years ago that may have JR> been the case, but the CGT have become a public performance unit, and JR> thereby have changed the nature of the relationship with Mr Fripp. I do JR> believe, however, that the CGT do willingly let Mr Fripp control the JR> situation, inasmuch as he is the senior AND the Master. I had a sense of this being the pinnacle of Fripp's work with the Crafties, and that this was his graduation ceremony of sorts - "mentor" is I think a better term for it than "master". Fripp had advised and counseled and imparted his wisdom but does not dominate or rule in calling the shots musically. In fact I thought that much of the material played showed that the CGT and Gunn had a lot of input into what material was covered. I was hoping for a bit more new material from Fripp, but instead it seemed to be a showcase of the CGT with Fripp as Master of Ceremonies and Gunn as the featured guest artist. It seemed to me that this served as a good opportunity for Fripp to offer his "graduates" a bit more exposure than they'd get without his help and participation, and Trey's basking in center stage perhaps a foreshadow of his soon getting thrust into the spotlights with King Crimson. BTW, it was interesting to note the complete lack of any stage lighting in the tradidtional sense during this show - the stage was lit, but they didn't have some lighting guy doing mood lighting or any shifting of the lights during the show. This seems to probably be in line with the whole tone of the show anyway, and I suspect that Fripp dislikes lighting that might distract from instead of complementing the music. PV> > The presence of four people who can emulate Fripp's style so PV> >convincingly disturbs me somewhat, however. I know he will not live PV> >forever, so maybe he is training his successors. JR> They've learned many of his techniques, it is true. They can use those JR> techniques with nearly the proficiency as Mr Fripp. However, I don't think JR> they are emulating Mr Fripp's style consciously. But I do think that since JR> Mr Fripp did start the Craft `school', that his style was one of the JR> strongest influences on the sound of Crafty music. But it is an organic JR> growth, considering that Craft music is an oral tradition. I do think they JR> also being their own style and preferences into the mix, considering that JR> Mr Fripp does not use slide techniques and the CGT does. So the CGT (and JR> Mr Gunn) are not just replacement Fripp carbon units. They have JR> personality of their own. I definitely get a sense of the CGT as being a unique body evolved from Fripp's training but not dominated by a need to clone Fripp's music. I'm inclined to think that most of the "covers" were chosen by them and not Fripp. They seem to be choosing their own path into their own territory. I bought the tape of Trey Gunn's music so I could get a sense of his style and what he'll bring to the new King Crimson. But the style sounds so much like a cross between Fripp and Levin that it's hard to find anything in it that doesn't already remind me of Fripp or 80's King Crimson. I don't see Gunn as merely a Fripp clone, but his work emanates such a strong Fripp sound that all I can imagine is that it will make the new King Crimson sound more like Fripp! Personally I like the idea of the balance being shifted from Fripp and Belew pulling equally in different directions to a situation where Fripp can possibly have a little more pull towards his directions in music - in other words Fripp and Gunn may sway the group more to Fripp's point of view. Again, the image of Fripp & Gunn teamed playing against Belew & Levin is what comes to mind in envisioning what might happen when all those guys start fretting about... JR> Mr Fripp is training musicians, not successors. Well put. - Malcolm [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 11:21:38 +1200 From: hobbs_a at kosmos dot wcc dot govt dot nz Subject: Cheerful Insanity From: fuzzbox at world dot std dot com (U.F.Orb) Subject: Yee-haw!!! Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 23:19:58 -0400 (EDT) >In the New releases Book By Polygram for the Month of July, I just read >that they will be re-releasing "The Cheerful Insanity Of Giles, Giles, and >Fripp", with 6 or so bonus tracks on it.... It's a fait accompli. I saw it in my local record shop just yesterday. Quite a few interesting photographs... anthony (but then, New Zealand tends to get these things early... :-) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: quanta at Athena dot MIT dot EDU Subject: The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles & Fripp Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 20:27:22 EDT A remastered version of this album came out in Germany on Decca/Deram (Cat.# 820-956-2) in 1992. There are six bonus tracks in addition to the original album. Two unreleased tracks: She Is Loaded Under The Sky And some single versions of songs on the album: One In A Million - Mono single version Newly-Weds - Single version Thursday Morning - Mono single version Thursday Morning - Stereo single version I love the whole album, and the song She Is Loaded is great (in a twisted sort of way). I only saw it once in a store and snapped it up. Haven't seen it since. --Doug Newton quanta at athena dot mit dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: dlovell at s1 dot elec dot uq dot oz dot au (David Lovell) Subject: An Angel Moves Too Fast To See". Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 12:33:11 EST ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi there folks, I know this isn't exactly a discourse of Fripp or King Crimson but I thought that some of you might be interested in a description of Rhys Chatham's composition for 100 electric guitars, "An Angel Moves Too Fast To See". I was playing in a recent performance of this piece for the Brisbane Biennial (I gather the piece has been performed only seven of eight times previously) and would strongly urge you to see it if you get the chance. The next performance will be given in Berlin some time in the near future. Firstly, the nuts and bolts. The piece is about 60 minutes in duration and consists of 6 movements: Prelude; Introduction; Allegro; No Trees Left, Every Blade of Grass Screams; Adagio; Guitar Centet. The ensemble is split into six groups of guitarists (each with a section leader): soprano 1 (Claude Alverez-Pereyre), soprano 2 (Zoltan Farkas), alto 1 (Pascal Brusson), alto 2 (Philippe Rey), tenor 1 (Jean-Francois Pauvros), tenor 2 (Dominique Pichon). Also, Ernie Brooks is on bass and Jonathan Kane is on drums. Rhys Chatham conducts the entire ensemble (usually via six section leaders) and also gets to spank the plank in Guitar Centet. All guitars are in an alternate tuning. I can only remember the soprano 1 tuning which is (from low to high): E' E' E E E E. The two E' strings are the same pitch as the second fret E on the fourth string of a standard tuning, the four E strings are the same as the open first string E. I'm pretty sure that the altos had a couple of A strings thrown in and the tenors had a bunch of bass E string on (just the trick to yank the tremelo out of your axe). As you can imagine, each section had a somewhat modal feel. However, the combination of the different sections plus bass was harmonically ambiguous, sort of like a suspended fourth chord on 601 strings (the bass player only played one note at a time). For me, the tunings were very appealing, I think perhaps because I'm used to hearing major/minor/7/9/11/13 chords and something as unresolved as the suspended fourth is kind of fresh and inviting. The work was (generally) in the key of A major, although the "No Trees" movement was aleatoric and had only relative pitch indications. This was a pretty meaty section of the piece, commencing with a staccato chord of indeterminate pitch (marked "Whap!" on the music), moving to a mezzoforte random section, then a section which started with "Notes Phantomes" (volume swelled notes) from some players + more randomness + a "Melody Chinoise" (vaguely oriental melody), then each section leader took a solo. I have to stop and catch my breath when I remember the solo played by our section leader (Claude). It was a dead ringer for an angular Fripp improvisation, full of those creamy sustained notes which come at you like throwing knives. After one rehearsal, I said to Claude "Great solo Claude" (or something equally memorable) and he laughed 'cos he thought it was a load of shit. I asked him what sort of music he enjoyed and it was remarkably mainstream: Sting, Paul Simon, some Brazilian violinist who I can't remember. Just goes to show, one man's creamy sustained note is another man's crap. ...anyway, back to "No Trees". The next section is a random section which commenced with the "Notes Phantomes" and this time the dynamics of the randomness are directed by Rhys. The sound of 100 guitars playing randomly at ppp reminded me of midnight in a factory that makes tiny clocks. The following section was played by Jean-Francois on an SG copy with a cello bow (shades of Jimmy Page) and bore a strong resemblence to whale noises (shades of Adrian Belew), very tasty. "No Trees" concluded with some very loud chords of indeterminate pitch, pretty damn cathartic, if you ask me. "No Trees" was the most avant garde of the movements. I've heard the rest of "Angel" described as post-minimalist (but that was by a pre-intelligent journalist) so if that strikes a chord with you, then fine. (Hmmm, Pavlov, that name rings a bell...) Many of the pieces made use of the classical tremelo technique (ie. strumming your guitar as fast as you can) and so sections sounded like a crack regiment of mandolin players on amphetamines. (My girlfriend commented that the tremelo sections made the ensemble _look_ like a crack team of masturbators...oh well.) "Allegro" was probably the most conventional of the movements. In rehearsals it sounded really folksy (this was just the soprano 1 section alone) but (much to my relief and amazement) it took on a whole new aspect in concert. This was mostly due to the bass improv which gave the piece a feel that I can only describe as "optimistic". "Adagio" was probably my favourite movement. It was also an utter bastard to play correctly. This was due to the fact that each section was playing in a different time signature. For example, we were to play a single chord (E5) for 7 beats, the tenors were playing a different chord in groups of 7 and 4 beats, the altos were playing in 4/4, as were the drums and bass. In other parts, the different sections were playing in 7/4, 5/4 + 11/4 and 4/4. The net effect was to make the piece sound like Sunday morning in a town with a few churches (ie bell ringing in and out of unison). This effect was, however, difficult to appreciate whilst counting 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 against a 4/4 beat. I find that King Crimson's polyrhythms are made easier to deal with because each player has a distinct sequence of notes to play, rather than one note and an odd number of rests. The remaining movements, Prelude, Introduction and Guitar Centet, are a little difficult to describe. Suffice to say that they were great to play and stunning to listen to. I've read a couple of reviews of the piece as performed in Brisbane, one was exultant (in accordance with my sentiments), the other reviewer walked out after 45 minutes because "it missed out for me" - I think it's fair enough for a listener to take a hike if he/she isn't enjoying the work but a reviewer has a duty to his/her readers to do the piece justice. From the remainder of the second review (on other pieces at the Biennial) I get the impression that the reviewer slipped the old blinkers on before a few other concert events. If you have the opportunity to see this piece being performed then I suggest you go along. Everyone that has seen "Angel" (ie those who I have spoken to) has been thrilled by the experience. -- David Lovell - dlovell at s1 dot elec dot uq dot oz dot au | | Dept. Electrical Engineering | "Oh bother! The pudding is ruined University of Queensland | completely now!" said Marjory, as BRISBANE 4072 | Henry the daschund leapt up and Australia | into the lemon surprise. | tel: (07) 365 3770 | [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 19:37:26 EDT From: Greg dot Andrade at um dot cc dot umich dot edu Subject: Crowd Yammerings I've noticed annoying fellows who insist upon disrupting a musician at several shows. For instance, at an Allan Holdsworth performance, some fool kept yelling out requests. Sorry sir, but Holdworth is not a lounge musician. Anyway, the person kept requesting a song which featured vocals, so Holdsworth finally asked sarcastically, "Who's going to do the vocals?". Though there are disruptive folks everywhere, it seems that Robert Fripp and especially King Crimson attract appreciative and cooperative fans. Listening to the Great Deceiver boxed set, I noticed that Fripp was actually disturbed by the lack of crowd noise at some points. Instrumental music, even in the rock genre, seems to attract polite fans who are well versed in performance etiquette. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 21:03:46 -0600 From: Jeff Holland Subject: Tube fun Hey Toby.... Ask Fripp if he's ever hooked up an oscilliscope to any of the tape loop pieces? I'm listening right now to "Pleasure in Pieces" with an old HP tube model. Pretty amazing stuff! The pure and overlapping tones are very regular and patterned as you might expect, but they're also beautiful. Don't know if he ever intended anyone to LOOK at his music! Jeff Holland [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 11:31:08 -0700 From: Malcolm Humes Subject: Fripp & Sylvian news According to the Usenet rec.music.info new releases posting: 10 Aug * Sylvian/Fripp The First Day This is the first release date I've seen listed for this. Further news I hadn't seen mentioned yet: On a radio interview on KCRW 89.9 FM of Santa Monica a few weeks ago, Fripp said he *hopefully* will tour with Sylvian this summer! They also aired some previously recorded String Quintet material. Haven't heard it but might be able to get a dub from a friend, eventually. - Malcolm [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 11:44:29 BST From: Toby Howard Subject: It's a baffling world One of my work colleagues tells me he used to live in Wimbourne, Fripp's home town, and that Fripp's cousin laid his carpets. Yes, you definitely get all the hot news on Discipline... :-) Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 15:17:09 -0700 From: David A. Craig Subject: frippertronics ok, so i was a little careless. i had used the word "improvisations" or some such in my observation that the santa cruz show had (for me) far more intense frippertronics than at the GAMH the night before. yes, indeed, the structure of the pieces was the same, beginning with tyhe same notes and so on. that however does not mean that the pieces came out the same ... anyone who has heard a variety of versions of oh, say "the sheltering sky" or "industry" can vouch for that .... that's what i had in mind. form does not preclude in-the-moment inventiveness and feeling from appearing. i agree also with the most distinguished gentlemen the honourable john relph that it is a disservice to trey gunn and the california guitar trio to view them as disciples or clones ... and to fripp as well i think. what would he be doing in such a relationship? pointless. he strikes me as the kind of man who likes to surround himself by people who challenge him, push him around unusual bends. and yes, trey gunn was looping. most agreeably, i might add. finally, not ALL of the encores were reprises, unless i'm more confused than usual. somebody out there who was there back me up! (hmmm... live versions of no pussyfooting/evening star material are perhaps better examples in this cases of how the form of a looped piece does not constrain it of necessity more than any other sort of musical form does) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 13:41:18 -0700 From: David A. Craig Subject: earthworks the nice folks here tell me that earthworks' "stomping ground live" has been pushed back to a late september release date. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) Subject: NEW KING CRIMSON *DELAYED*/Adrian Belew News Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 12:58:14 EDT Here's the latest on Crimson & Belew: - The King Crimson "PROJECT" has been delayed indefinitely. Fripp and Belew have worked on very little material at this point. Fripp's mother is extremely ill at the moment and his energies are concentrated on that situation. It seem unlikely we'll anything until at least 1994. - Belew is currently working on a solo album. Having finished 3 albums for Atlantic, he's currently looking for a new record deal. - Recently, Belew has been in the studio working on quasi-folkie Sarah Hickman's new album (elektra records) and Paul Simon's new project. - The last month or so has seen Belew give two music seminars. One in Philadelphia and one in Milwaukee. The former was for a New Music seminar, the second about songwriting. He played mini-acoustic sets at both apparently. (tapes? anyone got tapes? anyone? beuller?) - Belew has also been involved in two soundtracks as of late. One has been for an unnamed Canadian film made by Christine Richie (who is also Canadian). The other is for a Florida radio show called "On The Prowl". So there ya have it. No Crimson in 1993. Life goes on.... Anil Prasad wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.