Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #988 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 988 Wednesday, 12 June 2002 Today's Topics: Re: Bruford and Genesis Re: Wives Gabriel releases Re: Bruford & Genesis Re: Definitive Track Crimson Mix Tape Bruford & Genesis Bruford & Genesis Absent Lovers Re: Bruford & Genesis The King Crimson Barbershop song... KC 81/84 remasters cds Zoom Club USA: NOT EVERYTHING IN THE GREAT DECEIVER, remasters, when? Re: USA is (sort of) available bruford and genesis King Crimson and Henry Cow Re: The Vicar ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:02:35 +0100 From: Steve Moore Subject: Re: Bruford and Genesis > I know Bruford (along with Chester Thompson) is > credited for playing drums on Genisis' Three > Sides Live - does anyone know which tracks he's > actually on? There are two (at least) versions of TSL. The original vinyl UK version had three sides of (then) recent live stuff with Thompson on drums and a fourth side of 1976 live stuff. IIRC Bruford plays on 'If'. The original vinyl US release didn't have the 1976 tracks but replaced them with the tracks from the Paperlate EP __Steve__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:12:55 +0200 From: Dario Tortora Subject: Re: Wives Jordan Clifford wrote: >does anyone here have a wife that is a equal or bigger fan of >KC than they are? it just seems to reinforce the unfortunate fact that >there are way more male fans than female fans. > >... > >which brings up an interesting question.... how many ETers have significant >others that share musical tastes? Well, here I am! My girlfriend simply *loves* King Crimson. In fact we fell in love at the Rome concert of the Double Trio in '96. She actually digs the more melodic songs (Dinosaur, Frame by Frame, The Construkction of Light) or the heavier pumping stuff (Red, Indiscipline, Vrooom). The improv side of Krim still escapes her... Back to another topic: has anyone being succesful in ripping the Thunderbird track from P@t and Trey that's being aired in Krimson News Radio? It's a 45 minutes jam in three parts and I'm eagerly looking for it! Any news? Any info? Dario -- - Mac OS for productivity. UNIX for stability. Palm OS for mobility. Windows for solitaire. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 06:56:23 -0500 From: "Bergeon, Thomas C SEPCO" Subject: Gabriel releases sorry for my quick faus paux on the Gabriel / Fripp liason yes Steve Hunter, not David Rhoades was the guitarist must have been a foggy part of my brain Andrew wrote on not getting the Gabriel remasters I bought the first two Gabriel remastered releases and the remastered sound is quite good on high end equipment The first album especially benefits from the remaster You can finally hear what's in the muck on Morbund the Burgermeister, clearly Also full lyrics and photos from the studio and road from that era I didn't purchase III (melt) through US I don't see their production benefiting as much from remastering yes, no bonus cuts is a shame, but do you really want Walk Through the Fire following Biko? Elvis Costello has the best repackaging with many extra songs (sometimes warts and all) so the new Gabriel disc UP is scheduled for September see www.petergabriel.com when is the collectors club going to offer tapes of fripp ripping his guitar over Frippertronics loops my friend saw one of the shows around 80 and thought the soloing was fantastic certainly a tape or two exists thanks to those who recommended Larks-Red era CCC shows tom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 08:50:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Becker Subject: Re: Bruford & Genesis > I know Bruford (along with Chester Thompson) is credited for playing > drums on Genisis' Three Sides Live - does anyone know which tracks he's > actually on? Actually, it's Seconds Out, and he only plays on "The Cinema Show". The instrumental bit at the end (presumably) features both Bill and Phil Collins on drums, and is one of my all-time favorite Genesis moments. Bill is also on the second Genesis boxed set - he appears on "Entangled", but since the song lacks any actual drumming, his contribution is somewhat limited. --Don ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 14:19:55 +0100 (BST) From: Kevin Marriott Subject: Re: Definitive Track cjclark at earthlink dot net: >I don't think I could limit myself to just one track >for the entirety of the band's 33-year history, but >here's how I would sort them by era: > >'69 band - "Schizoid Man" >'70s band(s) - "Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part One" >'80s band - "Neurotica" >Double trio - "Dinosaur" > >I'm still waiting for the double duo to do >something "definitive." 69: Schizoid 71/2: Groon, maybe. Or Sailors Tale. 72/74: Larks' pt 2. 80s: Certainly something off Discipline. Frame by Frame. DT: Thrak DD so far: Larks' pt 4. ===== -- Kev "These go to 11" - Nigel Tufnel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 14:41:18 +0100 (BST) From: Kevin Marriott Subject: Crimson Mix Tape >SO, has anyone else attempted to make a definative >King Crimson mix? >any >suggestions for what to use/exclude? I occasionally make C90 tapes for friends of bands, and KC was the hardest one to do. (Larks' 2 or Fracture?) In the end, I did 2 c90s. Off the top of my head i think the single tape was something like this: side 1: schizoid man Formentera lady Sailors Tail Fracture Starless side 2: Frame By Frame The sheltering Sky Neal and Jack and Me Three oa Perfect pair one time construKction of Light Deception of the Thrush The 2 tape version was 69-72 on side 1, 72/74 on side 2, 80s on side 3 and 90s/00 on side 4. ===== -- Kev "These go to 11" - Nigel Tufnel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:04:02 +0100 (BST) From: Kevin Marriott Subject: Bruford & Genesis >Hi Eters! > >I know Bruford (along with Chester Thompson) is >credited for playing >drums >on Genisis' Three Sides Live - does anyone know which >tracks he's >actually >on? > >Thanks! > >Frank Sadly, it's only IT/Watcher of the Skies (which is great). He's also on 'Cinema Show' on the Seconds Out album (which is pretty fantastic). I think Phil Collins' vocals improved over this period, which is why they use the latest performances on each release. ===== -- Kev "These go to 11" - Nigel Tufnel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:18:10 -0300 From: Mariano Bugar=?ISO-8859-1?B?7Q==?=n Subject: Bruford & Genesis The only track that Bill played on 'Seconds Out' is 'Cinema Show', according to my CD's booklet. Mariano Bugarin bugarin at gmx dot net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:27:15 -0400 From: scott kevyn frank Subject: Absent Lovers Greetings from Central Florida. I am in search of a "red" version of Absent Lovers. I was also informed that a "yellow " version also exists. If anyone can shed light on this, or help me find the red and yellow editions, it would be much appreciated. Thanks.......Scott. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:46:59 -0400 From: "Craig J. Clark" Subject: Re: Bruford & Genesis In ET #986, Frank P wrote: > I know Bruford (along with Chester Thompson) is credited for playing > drums on Genisis' Three Sides Live - does anyone know which tracks > he's actually on? I take it you're referring to the remastered version (the one where all four sides are "live"). In that case, Bruford plays on "IT/Watcher of the Skies." Here's a link if you don't believe me: http://www.genesis-music.com/threesides.htm Incidentally, the track comes from the same tour that produced the recording of "Cinema Show" on Seconds Out. (Not that you asked.) -- Craig J. Clark "I believe -- so strongly -- in mayonnaise." cjclark at earthlink dot net --Elmo Oxygen, http://home.earthlink.net/~cjclark denizen of for the uneasily amused --> http://dada.warped.com Schizopolis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:27:16 -0400 From: "Nik Smith" Subject: The King Crimson Barbershop song... What's the deal with this song? Is that actually them singing in barbershop? or just some people they hired that say "I'm Robert.." ? Also when did this appear. I know it is on Three of a Perfect Pair remastered (as I have it) but was it a B-side or what? -Nik ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 23:14:48 -0700 From: Luis c Subject: KC 81/84 remasters cds Hello I'm from Portugal and ,here is very dificult to find the remasters from "discipline" "beat" and " t of a p fair" albuns ,i don`t know why? I think these are the best KC albuns ,with the 1st KC . I think discipline records make large editions of the old records but forget this ones. best luis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 22:56:31 +0000 From: "Donovan Mayne-Nicholls" Subject: USA: NOT EVERYTHING IN THE GREAT DECEIVER, remasters, when? I have both USA (on Atlantic vynil) and THE GREAT DECEIVER. When I first got Deceiver in '92 I indeed thought the contents were the same since the set list on side one is in the same order as the Providence CD. However... the versions of EXILES and EASY MONEY have differences so noticeable to any careful listener that I am absolutely, 100% certain they are not from the Providence gig. Neither is the Asbury improv. Now, LARKS 2 and LAMENT could be and if not, they are astonishingly similar. SCHIZOID MAN is certainly the same one. I read here long ago that it was Wetton and not Fripp who assembled USA. That fits with Fripp assembling Young Person's at more or less the same time, Jobson overdubbing missing parts and Wetton being the only one who promoted the album (see the Frame By Frame scrapbook) and Fripp disliking it. Now, both live albums have reportedly been already remastered at Sanctuary. So when the hell are they going to be released? They have been dropped from the DGM page. I suggest all people who want them send a petition either through the guestbook at DGM or this newsletter. I also suggest the administrators of this site to run a poll to force Fripp by popular demmand to once and for all put'em out! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:10:41 -0400 From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com Subject: Re: USA is (sort of) available dan buxbaum wrote: >The 'raw' versions of the tracks that appear on USA (sans the overdubs, >and minus Asbury Park) are available on disc one of The Great Deceiver >boxset: The Providence, R.I., June 30, 1974 show. That's the show from >where all of USA was taken from--other than Asbury Park, of course, This is not the case. Of the six tracks on _USA_, only "Schizoid Man" is from Providence. The remainder is from Asbury Park, according to David Singleton. Careful comparison of the _USA_ and _Great Deceiver_ Providence prerformances reveals obvious differences in basic tracks that would not be accounted for by overdubs. This is covered in the ET FAQ at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq/faq2.htm#q48 . Your pal, Biffy the Elephant Shrew http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:27:22 EDT From: Inturmoil at aol dot com Subject: bruford and genesis Frank P Hi Eters! > > I know Bruford (along with Chester Thompson) is credited for playing drums > on Genisis' Three Sides Live - does anyone know which tracks he's actually > on? If I remember right, he plays on "Supper's Ready" as well as the other tracks mentioned. I had the seconds out cassette years ago and it actually listed Chester's tracks and Bruford's tracks. I only remember Supper's ready because I loved that song. Listen to the cd. . .you can tell the songs Bill is on. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 00:37:16 +0100 From: "Iain Kitt" Subject: King Crimson and Henry Cow My two favourite bands of all time. 1 difference that's not been mentioned up to now is politics. Henry Cow were very definitely a political band and saw that and music as inextricably linked. Their music and performances were all seen as part of the anti-capitalist struggle. Naive perhaps in retrospect but it marked them out from most of the 'prog rock' bands of the time - including King Crimson. Chris Cutler's antipathy to King Crimson and Fripp possibly partly reflects this - he wouldn't want to have been associated with the flamboyant excesses of many bands in the mid '70s. A bit of a reverse side of the coin to punk and, like punk, KC got, mistakenly, associated with the likes of Yes, ELP etc. I can imagine Cutler being fairly dismissive of Fripp's rather naive views on the role of DGM as some sort of supposedly new 'ethical' business as well. As for Fripp vs. Frith? No question in my mind. Fred Frith is undoubtedly the better guitarist. Not just technically - but listen to his solo guitar work: Guitar Solos from the '70s and the recent 'Clearing' on John Zorn's Tzadik label if you doubt that - but in the range of his work with various groups (not just Henry Cow but the likes of Naked City, Skeleton Crew, Aksak Maboul), his free improvisations and his developing oeuvre as a composer. But that solo in 'A sailor's tale'... nothing like it by anyone else. By the way Chris Cutler also runs a record label and distribution business. None of Fripp's pretentious claptrap, just a good selection of varied and interesting music that you won't find anywhere lese. And no you won't find any King Crimson CDs on offer! Go to http://www.rermegacorp.com/misc.shtml - it's worth a look. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 20:57:26 -0400 From: Paul Sky 2 Subject: Re: The Vicar Could it possibly be Anthony Phillips? For the unknowing, he was the original guitarist in Genesis who left after Trespass. He was/is referred to as "The Vicar" throughout much of the Genesis lore. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #988 ********************************