Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #986 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 986 Monday, 10 June 2002 Today's Topics: USA is (sort of) available currently The recent Peter Gabriel reissues Elephant speak definitive songs Earthbound/USA debate CC #20 vs. Repercussions; reducing the great KC to one song Deception of the thrush and The wasteland Definitive Track Fripping Around as if to nothing... Re: Definitive Crimson track 21st Century Schizoid Band date Peter Sinfield / PFM Bruford & Genesis ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:43:45 -0400 From: dan buxbaum Subject: USA is (sort of) available currently Laurent Masse wrote in the last ET: "But for USA, I must insist. Past the subjective statement of my first post, there are some semi-objective points: we may have an unforgivable fade-out in a thrilling middle section of Easy Money, but apart from that it's better than Night Watch..." and "the Asbury Park version, hitherto only available on the 21CSM EP, which may appear as a bonus on the remastered USA, is BY FAR the most ferocious to date." First, Asbury Park was/is available on the Frame By Frame box set on the live compilation disc 4. Also the original live source material from USA is available (without the overdubs) on disc 1 of The Great Deceiver box set (Palace Theater, Providence, RI, June 30, 1974). Consulting my copy of Eric Tamm's RobertFripp book, Mr. Tamm writes (on page 74): "The live album USA, released around April 1975, was recorded toward the end of their final 1974 tour: the song Asbury Park at the Asbury Park, New Jersey Casino on June 28, and the rest two days later at the Palace Theater in Providence, Rhode Island." Then later in the book (page 79), in reference to the recording of the track "Providence" on Red: "This was recorded at the Providence, RI, Palace Theater on June 30, 1974--the gig at which most of USA was taped and the day before K.C. III's final performance in NYC." And yes I checked it out, and the 21st Century Schizoid Man from USA and The Great Deceiver disc 1 both have that same sloppy re-entry into the concluding vocal section after the instrumental middle section. Same performance. So there ya go! (The version of 21st C.S.M. on The Night Watch blows away this version anyway. The Bruford/Wetton short duet interplay before Fripp's solo on the Concertgebouw '73 version is an amazing little improvisatory showcase in the use of dynamics.) And finally, there has been slagging of Mr. Tamm's book around here, and in my opinion it is quite good and highly illuminating. I remember seeing it in a bookstore in the early nineties and being amazed that a book about RF/KC was there on the shelf in the music section next to all the books about Madonna, etc. And I owe thanks to Eric Tamm for inspiring me to delve into the writings/teachings of G.I. Gurdjieff on a more profound basis. I had heard his name, but really knew quite little about what he represented, other than that a musician I respected, Mr. Fripp found inspiration in his teachings. Mr. Tamm's book has a short but very clearly thought out and written synopsis of what Mr. G 'is about'. Tamm's short overview pushed me into checking out Gurdjieff's writings on a much deeper level and for that I am eternally grateful to him (and to RF as well of course for being the initial catalyst in this regard). Plus Eric Tamm happens to be a real nice guy: I wrote him a letter in '91 saying how much I appreciated that somebody had written a book on this topic [even against the wishes of the subject!] and he was kind enough to write me back.) P.S. The improvs are the best thing about The Great Deceiver. Is There Life Out There? and It Is For You, But Not For Us are incredible! (However, I never really cared for the Providence June 30, 1974 show that much anyway: too heavy metallic and lacking the subtlety of other K.C. shows for my tastes.) Funny how no live material from the U.S. tour of 1973 has found its way onto any releases (so far?). -- "You better buy yourself an electric guitar; you better play, there's no other way to beat the blues...I beat 'em!" -- Pete Townshend ("My Baby Gives It Away") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:25:13 -0400 From: Andrew dot Baxley at USPTO dot GOV Subject: The recent Peter Gabriel reissues I understand that the recent Peter Gabriel reissues, a few of which feature Bob "Chuckles" Fripp on guitar, offer improved sound quality. However, I'm not aware of any bonus tracks on any of them, even though there are plenty of b-sides and remixes that would have made excellent add-ons. Even worse, the new edition of Plays Live chops a few songs out -- people haven't been chopping songs so as to fit a double album on a single disc since the early days of the CD format. Moreover, they're selling in the States for more than $15 a pop. Though I'm a long-time Gabriel fan who has bought all his solo work (in some cases, twice), I won't be picking up these reissues. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 15:38:24 -0300 From: Javier Lopez de Casenave Subject: Elephant speak Dear ETers, yesterday I was searching in the web site of the Wildlife Conservation Society (Im an Argentine biologist), when this note appeared in front of me: "Learn Elephant Speak with Katy Payne Learn the language of the earth's largest land animals when the Wildlife Conservation Society (WCS) hosts a presentation by Dr. Katy Payne, Eavesdropping on Giants: The Language of Elephants, on Wednesday, June 5 in Manhattan. (...) Payne has been a pioneer in the relatively new field of bioacoustics; her studies began more than two decades ago, starting with a 15-year study on the changing songs of humpback whales. Her focus on marine giants shifted to terrestrial ones in 1984, when Payne felt vibrations but heard no sound while standing beside elephants in a zoo. (...) Payne and her colleagues then confirmed that elephants often communicate below the range of human hearing. Since then, Payne has conducted research on how African elephants use infra-sound - capable of traveling up to 10 kilometers with the proper weather conditions - to communicate. (...) Payne and her associates spent three months observing and recording elephant groups in a forest clearing in the Central African Republic (...) Payne is a research associate in the Bioacoustics Research Program of Cornell University's Laboratory of Ornithology." Do you think that Adrian Belew could help these guys in the research? ;) Best wishes, javier kCasenave PS: for those with interest for elephant talking, see the page of WCS at http://wcs.org/7411/?art=57752&pg=0 ............................................ Javier Lopez de Casenave ECODES Grupo de Investigacion en Ecologia de Comunidades de Desierto (Desert Community Ecology Research Team) Depto. Ecologia, Genetica y Evolucion, FCEyN, Universidad de Buenos Aires Piso 4, Pab 2, Ciudad Universitaria C1428EHA Buenos Aires, Argentina Correo electronico: casenave at bg dot fcen dot uba dot ar ............................................ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 15:04:35 -0400 From: Steve Rewa Subject: definitive songs For me, I think the definitive KC song would have to be "The King Crimson Barber Shop." Not at all for the music, although I do really get a kick out of barber shop in general, but because of the attitude conveyed in the song. It's the "do just about anything and enjoy it" idea that pervades a lot of their music. I think it's easier though, to come up with definitive songs for the various "eras" of KC. Personally I'm a big fan of the Wetton days and I think "The Nightwatch" is really representative of that style. Anon, -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:23:05 -0700 From: "Moshier, John T" Subject: Earthbound/USA debate Hi Eters I am eagerly awaiting the release of these long-delayed albums to see if they dispell prejudices I formed back in the 1970's. 1. I didn't like Earthbound because the sound was awful and I particularly disliked the sound of Boz's voice on Schizoid. After reading Ian Wallace's Collectors' Club liner notes, I now know that what I disliked so much was Pete Sinfield processing Boz's voice through a VCS3 synthesizer. 2. Because I didn't like Earthbound I never bought USA because I figured King Crimson wasn't very good live. At the time, it was not widely known that most of SABB consisted of live performances, much of which were improvised. Also, back in the vinyl era, live releases were a relative rarity, and very few bands were thought of as bands that just had to be seen live. The last several years' live releases from the Wetton era, particularly The Great Deceiver and the Collector's Club releases (I have No. 20 now and love it) leave me thirsting for anything and everthing this version of the band did live. The Collectors' Collectors' Club releases of the Islands band have convinced me that this line up was more than just long-winded, noisy noodling. So, I am hopeful that the delays in releasing both albums are due to extra care being taken in cleaning up the sound. Earthbound without all the recording noise could be much different than I remember it, and I can't imagine disliking USA. I just wish I had given it a chance 25 years ago. John Moshier ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:18:59 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: CC #20 vs. Repercussions; reducing the great KC to one song >Well, today, June 1st, CLUB #20 HAS FINALLY BEEN RELEASED and I ordered at once (plus The Repercussions Of Angelic Behavior - Bill Rieflin/Robert Fripp/Trey Gunn). I would be interested to find out which of the two you prefer. >> So without posting an e-mail about how the great KC cannot be reduced to one song, seriously if you had to chose your most 'definitive' KC track, that which most represents KC to you, what would it be? >LTIA, Part One. An excellent choice! >TD/Lark's II may be the single most representative example of the essence of Crim. Another excellent choice. - S. np: Steve Coleman, Myths Modes & Means scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 20:20:59 -0300 From: Javier Lopez de Casenave Subject: Deception of the thrush and The wasteland Dear Eters, well, concerning the speaking voice at the beginning of Deception of the Thrush, it is really from T. S. Eliot's "The Wasteland". Below are the original lines from the poem, and I marked the words spoken in the Level Five version of the song (sorry, I could not find the second and third set of words...). "(...) Your arms full, and your hair wet, I COULD NOT SPEAK, AND MY EYES FAILED, I was neither Living nor dead, and I knew nothing, Looking into the heart of light, the silence. Oed' und leer das Meer. [Desolate and empty the sea] Madame Sosostris, famous clairvoyante, Had a bad cold, nevertheless Is known to be the wisest woman in Europe, With a wicked pack of cards. Here, said she, Is your card, the drowned PhoeNICIAN SAILOR, (THOSE ARE PEARLS that were his eyes. Look!) Here is Belladonna, the Lady of the Rocks, The lady of situations. Here is the man with three staves, and here the Wheel, AND HERE IS THE ONE-EYED MERchant, and this card, Which is blank, is something HE CARRIES ON HIS BACK, WHICH I AM FORBIDDEN TO SEE. I do not find The Hanged Man. Fear death by water. I SEE CROWDS OF PEOPLE, walking round in a ring. Thank you. If you see dear Mrs. Equitone, Tell her I bring the horoscope myself: One must be so careful these days. Unreal City, Under the brown fog of a winter dawn, A crowd flowed over London Bridge, so many, I had not thought death had undone so many. Sighs, short and infrequent, were exhaled, AND EACH MAN FIXED HIS EYES before his feet. (...)" Best wishes, javier kCasenave PS: for those with interest in reading the whole poem, see http://www.bartleby.com/201/1.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 21:02:52 -0400 From: J A Sontag Subject: Definitive Track My vote would be for LTIA Pt 1. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 18:23:07 -0700 From: "Mark Tucker" Subject: Fripping Around To follow on Daryll and Biffy The Elephant Shrew: listen to Henry Cow's "Western Culture" and see if Frith wasn't Fripping around rather extensively. Always hate it when musical giants like Cutler get catty. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 01:45:25 -0500 From: "Jonathon Smith" Subject: as if to nothing... So has anyone heard the new Craig Armstrong record on Astralwerks? This sounds interesting with a cover of "Starless" and U2's "Stay Faraway, So Close." Jonathon "All I ever want to be is real." [Remy Shand] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 15:10:25 +0000 From: "Dan Ceo" Subject: Re: Definitive Crimson track If someone were to ask me to name the song that best defines King Crimson I'd have to say that it would be where it all started: The Court of The Crimson King. But, if someone wanted a song that was a representation of both old and new, then I'd say Red. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:49:43 -0000 From: Richard dot REES-JONES at nao dot gsi dot gov dot uk Subject: 21st Century Schizoid Band date Hello As well as playing at the Canterbury Festival in August (as previously announced on ET), 21st Century Schizoid Band (featuring Michael Giles, Peter Giles, Ian McDonald and Mel Collins) will also be performing original Crimson material at the Fairfield Hall, Croydon on 25 September. Richard Rees Jones ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:05:55 +0000 From: "lawrence moseley" Subject: Peter Sinfield / PFM Can anyone enlighten me on some lyrical writing and nature please? I do not have the Photo's Of Ghosts album from PFM. This is one of two (?) that Pete Sinfield translated PFM lyrics. Apparently PFM were not too happy with the translation as Mr Sinfield did not agree with the political nature of the lyrics so he, apparently, re- wrote them. What is the nature of the original PFM lyrics? What is the nature of the Pete Sinfield translation? I do have the L'Isola di Niente album. The relevant track 'Is My Face On Straight?' co-composer, S.Sinfield (Yes I know Peter starts with a P. not an S...) is the reason for me seeking information. The nature of these lyrics, though vocaly unclear seems ever so suspect. Who wrote what? Is it PFM with the dodgy lyric or Mr Sinfield? I emailed their site but, no reply for now. Musically I like PFM. With most of their stuff in Italian I have no idea as to the content but a momentary and controversial bit of English has me wanting to know more... For those wondering, if you got this far, PFM are regarded in the same light as Yes, Genesis (whom they most resemble), KC and ELP, only they are best known in Italy rather than internationally, as far as I am aware. Any clarification much appreciated. Thanks Lawrence ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 07:45:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank P Subject: Bruford & Genesis Hi Eters! I know Bruford (along with Chester Thompson) is credited for playing drums on Genisis' Three Sides Live - does anyone know which tracks he's actually on? Thanks! Frank ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #986 ********************************