Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #985 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 985 Monday, 10 June 2002 Today's Topics: USA is currently (sort of) available! Re: Fripp & Frith Re: Definitive Track expectation is a prison Definitive KC song wives The Vicar? Crimson Mix Tape RF and PG II Re: Definitive Track Live at the Zoom Club music exchange Re: Definitive Track Re: Fripp & Frith Zoom Club ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 12:17:30 -0400 From: dan buxbaum Subject: USA is currently (sort of) available! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 21:56:22 -0500 From: "Proginoskes" Subject: Re: Fripp & Frith Darryl wrote: > I recently read an interview with Henry Cow drummer Chris Culter who said > some rather unpleasant things about KC. That got me thinking about how > similar Fripp and Cow guitarist Fred Frith are sometimes in their > playing. Not only that but: a) They're both English, b) They are both > roughly the same age, c) Their surnames are 5-letters long and both begin > with "Fri-", d) They both collaborated with Brian Eno. e) They both claim to have invented the CGDAEG tuning, according to an old _Guitar for the Practicing Musician_ (now just _Guitar_) issue. ("Discovered" would be a better word.) -- Christopher Heckman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 00:10:12 -0400 From: "Craig J. Clark" Subject: Re: Definitive Track I don't think I could limit myself to just one track for the entirety of the band's 33-year history, but here's how I would sort them by era: '69 band - "Schizoid Man" '70s band(s) - "Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part One" '80s band - "Neurotica" Double trio - "Dinosaur" I'm still waiting for the double duo to do something "definitive." -- Craig J. Clark "I believe -- so strongly -- in mayonnaise." cjclark at earthlink dot net --Elmo Oxygen, http://home.earthlink.net/~cjclark denizen of for the uneasily amused --> http://dada.warped.com Schizopolis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:04:23 +0930 From: Pierre Dauchy Subject: expectation is a prison Hello all, Just read the following in John Cage's "Lecture on something" (1959, reprinted in "Silence", 1987, ISBN 0-7145-1043-2): "If at any moment we approach that moment with a pre-conceived idea of what that moment will provide, and if, furthermore, we presume that having paid for it makes us safe about it, we simply start off the wrong foot." Anyone find a strange similarity to certain Venal Leader opinions? Pierre ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 01:45:00 -0700 From: Eric Gagnon Subject: Definitive KC song In response to William Garton's post: Since KC has changed quite drastically over the year, I think it would be impossible for me to choose just one definitive KC song. It would be more appropriate to choose one for each incarnation. As for "Schizoid Man", it comes to mind immediately as THE KC song because two major live incarnation have done it regularly live... Anyway here's my own picks: Fripp-Sinfield era: Schizoid Man. Not even my favority on In the Court... But can't leave my head either... Wetton era: Exile Levin-Belew-Bruf-Fripp: Elephant-Talk Double Trio: Dinosaur (with One Time not to far behind...) Level 5 era: Deception of the Trush 'Til next time, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 01:25:52 -0400 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: wives >>(and my wife is away; she would simply >>not tolerate it) im always hearing people on this list talk about their wives and how they hate king crimson, or they dont like hearing it, or they tolerate in now and then... does anyone here have a wife that is a equal or bigger fan of KC than they are? it just seems to reinforce the unfortunate fact that there are way more male fans than female fans. personally i am not married nor old enough to be married but most of my friends dont even know who king crimson are, and probably wouldnt like them if they did. id really like to have a girlfreind, and future wife who can appreciate one of my all time favorite bands as much as i do. which brings up an interesting question.... how many ETers have significant others that share musical tastes? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 02:09:59 -0400 (EDT) From: david craig Subject: The Vicar? I don't think this has been properly answered: who the hell is the Vicar? RF with too much time on his hands? (Who's got time for this, really?) David Craig ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 01:47:19 -0400 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Crimson Mix Tape folks- I am in the process of creating a King Crimson mix tape, for personal use and to give to friends to get them started... couple problems: so much material, so many incarnations and styles.. do i do a mix of ITCOTKC-RED and then one of DISCIPLE-LEVEL 5, or combine them all? i think both options have their perks. i also cant decide what do include having to choose from so many albums. do i include improvs? it's come down to the realization that there has to be a different mix for personal use and one for those im introducing into the word of KC. It will have to be at least 2 discs, maybe 3. but that seems too much. but there is only so much you can fit, and with a good deal of their songs being between 6-13 minutes long those take up a lot of room. and since i want to include LTiA, SABB, Red, Discipline in their entirety and most of THRAK, Level 5, ITCOTKC, and a good mix of ITWOP and Islands, and everything else... well, thats quite a few discs. SO, has anyone else attempted to make a definative King Crimson mix? any suggestions for what to use/exclude? thanks Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 08:05:29 +0100 (BST) From: sean hewitt Subject: RF and PG II With all due respect, Thomas Bergeon is way off mark with his comments on PGII whn he says: "the reason Fripp is not mention on PG II relates to his contractual agreements with EG at the time. Fripp could produce but not play on a Gabriel disc. Fripp actually toured with PEter at this time, and played in low light or behind a screen, he was mentioned as "Dusty Rhoades" in live performances. A pun on Daivd Rhoades who was the rythum guitarist on the tour. Maybe EG cracked down on Fripp's contributions after his work on the first Gabriel album (where he is credited with acoustic, electric guitar and banjo. Hope this helps." In fact, it's due to cock-up not conspiracy that RF isn't mentioned as musician on the new remaster. He was mentioned as musician on the original vinyl in 1978 and - according to PG expert Mic Smith, who was consulted on the repackaging of the PG albums - was mentioned on the proofs of the new sleevenotes. Something seems to have gone wrong at the last minute. Anyway, there was no contactual agreement that stopped him him being mentioned. And, although, he appeared as "Dusty Rhodes" on the first PG tour, he played in thw wings - not behind a screen or in low light. There was no "pun" on the name of DAVID Rhodes, who hadn't even met Peter Gabriel at the time (they didn't start working together until two years later). Hope THIS helps. Sean Hewitt Sign up to watch the FIFA World Cup video highlights from your desk! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:17:34 +0100 From: Steve Moore Subject: Re: Definitive Track > if you had to chose your most 'definitive' KC track, that > which most represents KC to you, what would it be? Starless, without a doubt! __Steve__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:46:42 EDT From: IanSharwood at aol dot com Subject: Live at the Zoom Club I thought about putting up a posting last night re: the above; however I am glad I waited. Despite the sound quality the improvisations really stand out as something special. A little like listening to the "Deceiver Box Set" for the first time and hearing all the "stuff" you had never heard before. Anarchic but attention grabbing. Nobody should complain about the sound quality (although I was initially a bit irritated). In view of the volume of material provided (over a hundred minutes on two CD's), one is more than compensated. Zoom and Zoom Zoom are outstanding and I believe provide a link between the previous incarnation of KC and that of this recording. Mr Fripps playing on Zoom is a treat, lots of soaring neck pickup leads. Don't put it away until you have listened at least two or three times! Ian Sharwood. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 13:21:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim B." Subject: music exchange Greetings all - A few years back, when I was a young, impressionable new subscriber to ET, a list member organized a music exchange. A number of list members assembled mix tapes of their favorite non-KC music, and Bert(?) put together a chart by which the tapes were mailed in a loop. I got to hear a tremendous amount of good music, and as a result, definitely have a different musical ear today. I'm fundamentally a lazy guy, so it's a lot of trouble for me to actually seek out and download MP3's. So I'd like to take on the task of organizing another music exchange. Here's how it works: - If you're interested, send me an email (jimby24 at yahoo dot com - no responses to the list please) with "Music Exchange" in the header. Include your snail mail address. - In a couple of weeks, I'll send out an update to everyone who's interested. Your only responsibility will be to assemble the CD (I think we'll do CD's this time, unless there's a tremendous clamor for old fashioned cassettes), and periodically send along the CDs you receive to the next name on our list. I look forward to seeing what kind of interests you all have. Jim B. ===== "Pain is inevitable; misery is a choice." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 21:17:41 +0000 From: "Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Alves" Subject: Re: Definitive Track >...seriously if you had to chose your most 'definitive' KC track, that >which >most represents KC to you, what would it be? This topic is one of those which generates lots and lots of small replies, such as this one. Can anyone organize a poll before the subject becomes off-topic? Anyway, my vote is for LTiA, PII. I remember clearly the moment when I first (almost) heard this track. I was with a friend, and at that time (1984) we were huge Yes fans. Another friend gave us a tape with some Yes songs and the whole LTiA album on it, and my friend, in control of the tape deck, skipped large chunks of the album just to hear some small samples of what KC could be. We eventually came to the middle part of LTiA II, just to hear that powerful guitar chords... When the violin solo started, my friend turned off the tape deck and removed the tape, saying he was "too academical" for that (he studied classic piano for years). At that time I didn't stop him, but that chords remained in some corner of my brain for some years, until I found the owner of the tape, borrowed it and listened to it a hundred times. LTiA wasn't easy to find in Brazil, I had to buy it in Germany, among all the KC albuns I could find (in vinyl). Well, this was not a small reply after all... Carlos, Sao Paulo p. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 23:30:43 +0200 From: "Thomas" Subject: Re: Fripp & Frith That's an interesting topic that I've been tempted to raise quite a few times : the similarities between Fred Frith and Robert Fripp, and to a certain extent between Henry Cow and King Crimson. I sense some kind of bitterness towards KC in the Chris Cutler interview, as if King Crimson had stolen musically from Henry Cow, which I find hard to believe since "In the Court" precedes "Leg End" by 4 years. I always found the two groups to be both sides of the same coin : KC being at the avant garde of rock and Henry Cow being the rockers of the avant garde. Maybe his grief towards the Larks' Tongues band is that they ventured a few months earlier in a territory that Henry Cow wanted to make their own (I don't remember KC being especially vocal about their originality as rock improvisors, and as to the statement about Frippertronics, it is so silly that I laughed). I any case, I do recommend Henry Cow's "Leg End" to Crimheads with a taste for deconstructed jazz, it is beautiful. And I find many similarities in the playing of Fripp and Frith, especially when they play softly : I wonder who influenced who, but when I heard the Massacre "Funny Valentine" CD for the first time (Frith, Laswell, Hayward, published in 1998), I would have sworn that it was music improvised by KC in 74. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 01:28:09 +0000 From: "alexis rondeau" Subject: Zoom Club I recived Zoom Club yesterday. Oh my God! I haven't been so excited about a new release for a loooog time (last time was probably when Summit Studios brought to my attention the fact that the Island band had as much potential as any of the more famous Crimson bands). Anyway, yes the sound is pretty bad but it certainly isn't worst than Beat Club and the playing offers such a compensation! Also this one is actually very unlike everything else from the Larks Tongue Band so it's a MUST HAVE. There's so much improv on this one I simply can't beleve they dared to show up on stage without a single classic to please the fan... This also made me realise how much I would like to see a Crimson show, one day, made up of absolutly nothing I know! C'mon, bring it on! Ever thought about getting Projeckt X to play modern jazz festivals or somthing? Not for evryone, I know, but just a few show :-) Also with uncle Bob playing the Fallen Angel guitar riff so early in King Crimson's history it wouldn't surprise me anymore if I was to hear a 1968 improv featuring Fripp playing something not unlike Larks IV... Wow! Anyone who cares more than very little about this lineup shall need Zoom Club, I say. Cheers, Alx ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #985 ********************************