Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #983 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 983 Wednesday, 5 June 2002 Today's Topics: Definitive Track The Doves Space Groove Charlotte, NC ETers? (and a plug) Re: Heavy Video Re: PG II Re: Fripp on PG II (scratch) Passwords For Heavy ConstruKction Video Peter Gabriel Blizzard of Crim Re: Gabrial 2 why fripp isn't listed as guitarist on Gabriel II essential club releases??? 72-74 Fripp & Frith Live Crimson has never sounded better USA ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:10:18 +0930 From: "william garton" Subject: Definitive Track Greetings Eters, I have just finished listening to Side 2 of USA, and upon hearing 21st Century... I was reminded of a recent posting bringing up the regularity of this track throughout KC releases. I assume perhaps it was because it was seen as 'The Definitive' KC song of the era. Nonetheless it made me think of what I would see as my 'definitive' KC song. I think it is most likely Epitaph. I am genuinely interested in what others would think. So without posting an e-mail about how the great KC cannot be reduced to one song, seriously if you had to chose your most 'definitive' KC track, that which most represents KC to you, what would it be? Will. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 13:19:57 +0100 From: terry dot lowen at ucd dot ie Subject: The Doves Has anyone heard the Doves reworking of Moonchild entitled M62 song (it was recorded under a flyover). Its on their latest album 'The Last Broadcast' which is an early contender for album of the year. They have shown that Moonchild is actually a very good song when all the noodly crap is taken out. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 07:50:20 -0500 From: wviland at thin-film dot com Subject: Space Groove >I am greatly anticipating for my Level Five to arrive in the post. Is it >worth the wait and money?. And is Projekct 2 (space groove) and Projekct X >(heaven and earth) worth getting as I already have the projects box set. Level Five is very exciting, especially if you where at the concert. I anticipate a very good studio release. If you like Crimprov get the entire 'Projects' set, but also buy the Space Grooves CD. I think Space Grooves was gleaned from the projects to be a refined example. Of course the second CD of Heavy Construction is also a must. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:54:58 -0400 From: "Sullivan, Mark" Subject: Charlotte, NC ETers? (and a plug) I've been away from ET for awhile (if you search my name in the archives you'll find some early postings), but I'd like to try to get some local networking going. I emailed the ET Webmaster several weeks ago about setting up a Charlotte area local ET group; the link hasn't appeared yet, but I thought I'd try to drum up some interest. There's got to be more fans in the area than I've run across! If you're interested, email me at Dovell-Sullivan at worldnet dot att dot net. Also, I've been giving solo guitar & loop performances for some 25 years now. I recently put together a couple of CDs (plus one of my jazz trio). There are two free MP3s from each on MP3.com, with a link back to my Web site where you can view the CD covers & contents. Have a listen, and let me know what you think. Mark Sullivan Charlotte, NC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 13:57:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Re: Heavy Video David writes: >> Can someone please e mail me the password to view the concert footage >> on the Heavy Constukction CD. I can not find it on any web page. > > > >Even if you're not using a Mac, the passwords are there. I was able to watch the video -- with no password and no ridiculous html "framework" -- simply by copying the video file (I think it was a .wma?) over to my hard drive and double clicking on it. No fuss, no muss. Great shredding by Venal Leader during the first improv, too. --Art ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:03:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Re: PG II Eric ponders: >Peter Gabriel recently issued 9 remastered discs comprising much of his >catalogue, but the liner notes to PG II (also known as Scratch) are a >real head scratcher. Fripp is credited as Producer but is not listed as >musician. (I am citing from the Limited Edition numbered digipack.) For >nigh on 25 years I have heard his guitar in White Shadow and other >tracks. Any explanation why Fripp got no guitar credit? He is credited with >banjo and various guitars on PG I (Car), and numerous online >discographies list him as guitarist on PG II. My vinyl is in storage, >but I recall it being rather cryptic about Fripp's contributions. My old >Atlantic CD of PG II from the late 80's of course has NO credits >whatsoever. Anyone? For the record: My vinyl copy (Successo/Charisma) has no liner notes or musican credits whatsoever. My CD copy (Atlantic, bought a few years ago) has complete lyrics and credits RF with Electric Guitar, Acoustic Guitar, and Frippertronics. Still the most satisfying PG album, IMO. --Art ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:41:40 -0400 From: Chuck Benz Subject: Re: Fripp on PG II (scratch) My vinyl inner sleeve lists Fripp for Electric Guitar: On The Air Mother Of Violence White Shadow Perspective Acoustic Guitar: White Shadow Frippertronics: Exposure (as if there could be any doubt on the last...) \chuck benz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:52:08 -0400 From: "Labbauf, Les" Subject: Passwords For Heavy ConstruKction Video IN ET 982 The Following Was Discussed. >Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:23:28 -0400 (EDT) >From: david craig >Subject: Re: password for concert footage > Can someone please e mail me the password to view the concert footage > on the Heavy Constukction CD. I can not find it on any web page. > http://homepage.mac.com/macdgm/ >Even if you're not using a Mac, the passwords are there. >David Craig >http://www.panix.com/~dac/ If you are using a PC then no passwords are needed. Assuming you have Windows Media Player installed. Insert the cd into your drive and search it for media files. It is in a hidden folder and may be found manually by allowing Windows Explorer to display hidden files. For windows 2k open windows explorer, select tools, folder options, view and enable hidden files. No password is needed to open it in Windows Media Player. Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:05:16 -0400 From: Tim Subject: Peter Gabriel > Peter Gabriel recently issued 9 remastered discs comprising much of his > catalogue, but the liner notes to PG II (also known as Scratch) are a real > head scratcher. Fripp is credited as Producer but is not listed as > musician. (I am citing from the Limited Edition numbered digipack.) For > nigh on 25 years I have heard his guitar in White Shadow and other tracks. Another interesting liner note... On the remaster of Plays Live (which I will add sounds better but is seriously short on content-Rhythm of the Heat, On the Air, Not One of Us, and Intruder regrettably absent), Tony Levin is credit with drums and percussion, while Jerry Marotta is nowhere to be found (obviously a line of type was dropped somewhere...) So a bit of sloppiness and the liner notes all around I suppose. Tim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:49:03 -0400 From: "josh chasin" Subject: Blizzard of Crim > Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:22:54 +0200 > From: Laurent Masse > but apart from that it's better than Night Watch... (snip)... and Great Deceiver > if concision and brevity (not to mention $$!) are a concern to you (unless > you are a diehard, you have too much versions of everything plus a ton of > improvs which are very hard to sit through past the first one). We may have > too much version of 21CSM, but (totally subjective view follows) the Asbury > Park version, hitherto only available on the 21CSM EP, which may appear as > a bonus on the remastered USA, is BY FAR the most ferocious to date. I don't think I qualify in any way as a diehard (well, not around here I don't; my wife would count my Crim albums and disagree) but I have a totally warm place in my heart for Great Deceiver. I picked it up on a Friday night, a snowy Friday night that became a full-on snowy New York City weekend. And there I was in my apartment, alone, looking out the window at the white powder swirlling and blustering by beneath a dark gray sky, and I have to say, it was one of those moments where music and setting just fell into perfect synchronization. I found-- find-- the improvs on that album truly inspired, like them actually better than the songs, and listened to the whole thing all tthe way through all weekend long. And I can assure you, next time there is a blizzard (and my wife is away; she would simply not tolerate it) I will break out that set and give it a good airing out. Start to finish. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 13:48:49 -0700 From: "Mitch Goldman" Subject: Re: Gabrial 2 eric says: > Any explanation why Fripp got no guitar credit? He is credited with > banjo and various guitars on PG I (Car), and numerous online > discographies > list him as guitarist on PG II. My vinyl is in storage, but > I recall it > being rather cryptic about Fripp's contributions. My old > Atlantic CD of > PG II from the late 80's of course has NO credits whatsoever. Anyone? I have the vinyl in front of me. It lists Fripp as "Electric Guitar" on On the Air, Mother of Violence, White Shadow, and Perspective; "Acoustic Guitar" on White Shadow; and "Frippertronics" on, what else, Exposure. (Fripp of course gets a writing credit on Exposure as well.) MG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:58:02 -0500 From: "Bergeon, Thomas C SEPCO" Subject: why fripp isn't listed as guitarist on Gabriel II Eric the reason Fripp is not mention on PG II relates to his contractual agreements with EG at the time. Fripp could produce but not play on a Gabriel disc. Fripp actually toured with PEter at this time, and played in low light or behind a screen, he was mentioned as "Dusty Rhoades" in live performances. A pun on Daivd Rhoades who was the rythum guitarist on the tour. Maybe EG cracked down on Fripp's contributions after his work on the first Gabriel album (where he is credited with acoustic, electric guitar and banjo. hope that helps Tom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:50:14 -0500 From: "Bergeon, Thomas C SEPCO" Subject: essential club releases??? 72-74 okay I have the Great Deceiver, Absent Lovers, Thrak Attack, Level 5 and Nightwatch discs, and 30 year remasters of the 72-74 lineup and the club selections from France 82 through the Vroom Sessions. Am I missing any essential KCCC discs? I am partial to 72-74 era was curious about the Central Park 74 Beat Club 72 and Mainz Germnay 74 discs I saw the reviews on elephant talk, but they only made things more confusing would like a larger perspective on what's available from the era and sound quality without getting too redundant I like good sound quality and interesting improv any suggestions on must haves? I'm a little oversaturated with Crim material speaker of DVD's what about the Midnight Special 74 material becoming available?? thanks tom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 20:10:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Darryl Subject: Fripp & Frith Hello, Long time no post. I recently read an interview with Henry Cow drummer Chris Culter who said some rather unpleasant things about KC. That got me thinking about how similar Fripp and Cow guitarist Fred Frith are sometimes in their playing. Not only that but: a) They're both English, b) They are both roughly the same age, c) Their surnames are 5-letters long and both begin with "Fri-", d) They both collaborated with Brian Eno. I thought E-Talkers might be interested in reading this part of the interview(taken from www.ccutler.com): Q: How do you see British groups such as King Crimson, Van der Graaf, Gentle Giant and Jethro Tull to the progressive music? CC: "Personally, I have to say that I never had much time for King Crimson. I disliked their first album and, apart from a track here and there, didn't find much I cared for on later album either. To make things harder, they were contemporaries of Henry Cow and we were often pointlessly compared with them(especially Fred Frith who got foolishly compared/confused with Robert Fripp). But we never saw the connection really; they were working in a much narrower musical field than we were. And when they began to make big statements about their originality for improvising(around Jamie Muir/Larks Tongues time) we found that frankly rather pathetic. But that was their way-after all Fripp claimed to have invented 'frippertronics', which is either a mark of ignorance on his part or outrageous arrogance, since every guitarist 'invented' that obvious procedure. I was not a fan of the other groups you listed either, or Yes or Genesis for that matter, the quintessential 'progressive' groups. I don't think we had much in common with any of them. We certainly didn't learn anything from them. I, for instance, would have to go back to early Zappa, Beefheart, Barrett's Pink Floyd, Soft Machine, AMM, Sun Ra, Coltrane, Coleman, Stockhausen, Schoenberg and so on for influences. And for contemporary bands in the '70s, Magma, Faust, Samla Mammas Manna." Darryl W. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:02:21 EDT From: Belewp at cs dot com Subject: Live Crimson has never sounded better After listening to Heavy Construction and Level 5 for about 50 times each now it's dawned on me... this is without a doubt the best live era of Crimson music so far. ANother thing finaly sank through my biased head aslo; Pat alone sounds better than Pat with Bill and Trey is the best Low end guy that Crimson has ever known( I absolutely love Levin's playing so don't bother flaming me). I hope the new album brings some fresh Ideas to Crimson's table so we can see how this monstrous live band can improve on them live. Rock ON!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 13:23:32 -0300 (ART) From: Ronald Miklos Vogel Subject: USA Hi I agree with most of the comments about USA and the musical relevancy or not of its reissue. Anyway, given the fact that I am a die hard crimhead, I can't wait for the gatefold remastered version of both USA and Earthbound, eventough I have the LPs for 27 years. Discussions and comments about sound quality and setlists are always welcome. It is always interesting to know how other people may feel and react about it. Ronald Vogel (Brazil) ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #983 ********************************