Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #982 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 982 Thursday, 30 May 2002 Today's Topics: Tool In Concert. Re: USA Re: Double Trio live songs... Re: What's a touch guitar/Warr guitar anyway? Re: Tours Top 5 videos that desparately need to be reissued on DVD! Re: password for concert footage Re: Deception Of The Thrush KRIMSON TOURS/DVDS The (hopefully) end-all about the nature of "deception" Deception of the Thrush Zoom Club released ever going to actually get released? In need of clarification... Music and films The Musical Box Peter Gabriel II ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 23:07:09 -0400 From: Fox Mulder Subject: Tool In Concert. In ET 980 The Following Was Mentioned About Tool In Concert: >1) No friggin theatrics...no "big hair", no explosion machine, no >poses. >(Well, I should qualify that...the lead singer was wearing nothing but >underwear, but he was on a platform in the back, and I actually came to >believe that he was most comfortable like that). The bassist, >guitarist, >and drummer were all about the music: little movement, and clearly >focused on their playing. >That kind of thing can go either way for me. With KC i like couldnt >careless if they dont move around, however when i see them all smiling >gleefully (aside from robert of course :P ) and adrian jumping around >from time to time make me really excited. When I saw Tool last September, there was quite a bit of theatrics. They had awesome visuals not only on a big screen, but also on a smaller screen that Manyard was singing in front of. Also during one point of the show there were two very flexible acrobats hanging above the stage contorting into all kinds of weird shapes. Sure the band stayed pretty motionless during their performance, but it was still a wild show. Les ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:22:54 +0200 From: Laurent Masse Subject: Re: USA >Laurent wrote in ET #975 > > >So the original version of > > USA is still missing, but I understand this will no longer > be the case >with > > the imminent (?) 30th anniversary edition. BTW, still - >by far - my >favourite '74 live release. > >I hate to disappoint all you Crimheads who are salivating for this release, >but I don't recall the LP being all that great. Like all LP's, it was short, >about 40 minutes, with choppy editing and some overdubs, and except for >Asbury Park everything else must has been done about a dozen times on the >other live releases. How many live versions of 21st CSM or LTIA PartII do we >need? Spend your money on The Great Deceiver or the Night Watch - both are >super albums with lots of depth. > >The same remarks go for Earthbound too! Couldn't agree more about Earthbound - any '71 release from the now regularly available KCCC is better. But for USA, I must insist. Past the subjective statement of my first post, there are some semi-objective points: we may have an unforgivable fade-out in a thrilling middle section of Easy Money, but apart from that it's better than Night Watch if you don't want to duplicate what you already have (NW is nothing more than a remixed SABB with no more than 50% unreleased material, and I personally find the sound very flat and too-much reverb-drenched) and Great Deceiver if concision and brevity (not to mention $$!) are a concern to you (unless you are a diehard, you have too much versions of everything plus a ton of improvs which are very hard to sit through past the first one). We may have too much version of 21CSM, but (totally subjective view follows) the Asbury Park version, hitherto only available on the 21CSM EP, which may appear as a bonus on the remastered USA, is BY FAR the most ferocious to date. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:30:30 +0200 From: Laurent Masse Subject: Re: Double Trio live songs... >Subject: Double Trio live songs... > >I was looking at some setlists from 1995 and 96 and noticed that the band >played Waiting Man and The Sheltering Sky at a number of shows. I'm >thinking how cool that must have been, but I also wonder why those songs >aren't on any compilations or anything out there. How were the double >trio's versions of these songs? I'm quite curious! Thanks I was at the first show of the THRaKaTTaK tour in Bordeaux back in June 1996. No sheltering sky, but they played Waiting Man, which I remember as THE magical moment of the show. But this was in the moment and may partially be due to the fact that I am very fond of this song. Doesn't mean it would sound good on a live release. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:33:35 +0200 From: Laurent Masse Subject: Re: What's a touch guitar/Warr guitar anyway? >What is it? > >What do they actually sound like? > >Anyone have any isolated sounds of either of them Give a listen to The Third Star by Trey Gunn. It's all over the place. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:00:56 +0000 From: "Andrew Thiermann" Subject: Re: Tours >Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 09:18:53 -0500 >From: Loren Karnick >Subject: Tours >I sometimes wonder if anyone is paying attention out there. I have >been >reading a lot of back and forth on KC touring with Tool and a recent >poster > [etc] I don't think I could have said it any better myself. Thank you for your enlightening and incisive words. Much Respect. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 15:36:41 +0100 (BST) From: Kevin Marriott Subject: Top 5 videos that desparately need to be reissued on DVD! >1. King Crimson-"Live in Japan" If you mean the 1995 performance, this is available on DVD on the Deja Vrooom disk, along with a load of extra features. I particularly like the camera angles - where the mix actually biases towars the person you have selected. ===== -- Kev "These go to 11" - Nigel Tufnel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:23:28 -0400 (EDT) From: david craig Subject: Re: password for concert footage > Can someone please e mail me the password to view the concert footage > on the Heavy Constukction CD. I can not find it on any web page. Even if you're not using a Mac, the passwords are there. David Craig ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:25:45 -0400 (EDT) From: david craig Subject: Re: Deception Of The Thrush This should *definitely* go in the ET FAQ! David Craig ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 15:26:38 -0400 From: "MALCOLM XERXES" Subject: KRIMSON TOURS/DVDS I sometimes wonder if anyone is paying attention out there. No doubt, "THIS FRIPP" has wondered the same thing, from time to time! I have been reading a lot of back and forth on KC touring with Tool and a recent poster suggested that they might want to tour with Rush who are going out soon. The persons who think that KC shouldn't tour with Tool or have other suggestion have not been paying attention to RF. He doesn't want to live in the past, he wants to let the now come through his music and that means listening to now music, playing with now musicians and generally living now (cliche ridden as that may read). Are you suggesting that "THIS FRIPP" & MR. IAN ANDERSON are, in fact, NOT one & the same?! While I personally haven't been able to get into TCOL as much as others have, I also can see that he is trying to keep his music alive. That's a shame, because I LOVE that album, despite the conspicuous absence of BILFORD/T-LEV! The best comparison that I can make, and one that a rock and roll audience might not follow, is in the jazz world. Why do you assume that Rock listeners are less capable of grasping abstract concepts than Jazz audients would be? Miles Davis, to use one example, would periodically change the members in his band, with those members staying at about the same age while he got older and older. It wasn't because he feared getting older, but because he wanted his music to stay fresh. A man who "feared getting older" might be disinclined to become addicted to Heroin! While many jazz fans didn't like a number of the directions that he went in, no one could say that the music didn't challenge. I am especially fond of his work on "DECOY" & "TUTU". Not meaning to close off the debate, but I think that despite what are sometimes sidesteps, Could you provide some examples of such "sidesteps", please? RF and KC continue to present challenging music and maybe, as fans, we ought to defer to his judgment a bit more in his choices. Given that "THIS FRIPP" does not consult with me about his decisions before making them, I have no choice BUT "to defer to his judgment...in his choices"! You can always say that you don't like the direction, but I don't think that if you really care about music (and not just a period or style) you can fault him for his approach "Car[ing] about music" does not mean that one may not be critical of the Music-maker, and the decisions thereof. (or for that matter any of the members of the band, particularly AB, who seems to get slagged regularly for reasons of taste). Yes, this is a curious phenomenon I have observed. Especially given that I have seen far less capable Musicians & Frontmen lauded for their own efforts in far less adventurous & accomplished musical situations. I can say that for me, while I may not like everything that he does, I like that he continually challenges me. LOREN, I grok the fullness of the totality! "THIS FRIPP" challenges HIMSELF, I think, and I am fortunate enough to reap the benefits of his decision to do so. http://www.malcolmxerxes.com ******************************* 5. Robert Fripp and the League of Crafty Guitarists- "Careful with that Axe". 4. Robert Fripp String Quintet-"Live in Japan" 3. King Crimson-"The Noise; Live in Frejus France 1982" 2. King Crimson-"Three of a Perfect Pair; Live in Japan 1984" 1. King Crimson-"Live in Japan" I believe that KING CRIMSON: "DEJA VROOOM" IS #1, actually, as I own both. MALCOLM XERXES http://www.malcolmxerxes.com http://www.angelfire.com/music/a1000m ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 15:39:44 -0500 From: "Brandon S." Subject: The (hopefully) end-all about the nature of "deception" According to a foot-note in Sid Smith's excellent and highly recommended book, "In the Court of King Crimson", the voice is indeed taken from a recording of T.S. Eliot reciting his poem "The Waste Land", with the tape being played through a talk box/vocoder device of some sort. Now, as according to the title, it is taken from a poem called "Burnt Norton" in another publication of Eliot's, entitled "The Four Quartets". I hope that this is help to resolve the issue. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:10:51 -0500 From: "Nadim S. Haque" Subject: Deception of the Thrush Big thanks to Brandon and Larry who gave me good advice on transcribing "Level Five"'s "Deception of the Thrush". Here's what I hear: "I could not / Speak, and my eyes failed... Meer / Madame Sosostris... Phoenician Sailor / These are pearls that were (repear 'that were')... And here is the one-eyed... Something he carries on his back / Which I am forbidden to see... I see crowds of people (repeat 'of people')... And each man fixed his eyes..." As to the question whether T.S. Eliot's voice was used for the DotC live, I don't know. It is possible because some of his inflection (which can be heard on the recording of "Burial of the Dead" on this web site: http://town.hall.org/Archives/radio/IMS/HarperAudio/011894_harp_ITH.html) sounds quite close to "Level Five"'s recording (which is the only one I have access to), but some parts (like "Madame Sosostris") sound different, maybe those are from another Eliot recording?!? Cheers, Nadim S. Haque sliced|suitcase Fly Out Reiseladen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 22:33:51 -0400 From: "Nik Smith" Subject: Zoom Club released ever going to actually get released? What's the hold up? I've been checking the DGM site everyday for the past month or so and all it EVER says is the Opt. Out date (which is long overdue). Does anyone know when they will be releasing this? -Nik ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 22:33:51 -0400 From: "Nik Smith" Subject: In need of clarification... Regarding the departure of Tony Levin and Bill Bruford. Why did they leave after Thrak? What were their feelings towards Fripp/KC? Will they ever be returning? The reason why I ask this is that I became a fan of KC about 2 years ago, and at that time all this had already happened, and even then, I stuck to their early work. Any answers would be appreciate -Nik ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 12:03:52 +0800 From: Errol Tout Subject: Music and films To whom it may concern I have read the messages regarding the person wishing to use King Crimson music on a film. Be extremely careful. There is very clear manner in which this has to be approached. A licence agreement must be drawn up between the artist that owns the rights to the music and the producer of the film. It states which piece of music will be used, the duration and for what purposes and how much consideration the artist will receive. This is a legal document. Normally the budget for film music is 5% of the movie budget. If you do not have such an agreement you are in breach of copyright and [in Australia at least] you are liable to a $20,000 fine. If the artist agrees to charge no fee, they may do this, but it must form part of the licence agreement. I am surprised your tutors at your place of study have not made this very clear to you, they certainly would be aware of this. The artist has paid to produce the music in the first place [in many many ways] and it is not the right of any individual to use it if they feel like it. It makes absolutely no difference if the project is a student film. As an aspiring professional you must learn to work as a professional and treat other professionals with the respect [and legal rights] that they are entitled to expect. Errol H. Tout ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:56:31 -0400 From: "Bob Bennett" Subject: The Musical Box Just to let you know Peter Gabriel attended the Bristol show of the Musical Box. I myself have seen them several times (the Foxtrot, Selling England and Lamb tour renditions). Excellent re-creation. Spot on! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 07:44:59 -0700 From: "Eric Heinitz" Subject: Peter Gabriel II Peter Gabriel recently issued 9 remastered discs comprising much of his catalogue, but the liner notes to PG II (also known as Scratch) are a real head scratcher. Fripp is credited as Producer but is not listed as musician. (I am citing from the Limited Edition numbered digipack.) For nigh on 25 years I have heard his guitar in White Shadow and other tracks. Any explanation why Fripp got no guitar credit? He is credited with banjo and various guitars on PG I (Car), and numerous online discographies list him as guitarist on PG II. My vinyl is in storage, but I recall it being rather cryptic about Fripp's contributions. My old Atlantic CD of PG II from the late 80's of course has NO credits whatsoever. Anyone? --Eric Heinitz ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #982 ********************************