Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #976 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 976 Thursday, 16 May 2002 Today's Topics: 69 IS FINE DGM The value of a Tool concert Re: USA "21st" /"Heart of the Sunrise" parallels; my own questions-- Mohallem's Fripp Biography Trey Gunn's posting[s?] to ET? Double Trio live songs... Buckeyball/Magna Carta - clarification. Re: Nashville Rehearsals (Club13) reviews? Heart of the Sunrise - Yes/KC What's a touch guitar/Warr guitar anyway? funny blurb from MTV's The Osbournes web page Lark`s tongues in aspic II cover ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 08:57:18 -0700 From: "Eric Heinitz" Subject: 69 IS FINE I am pleased to see folk helping one another make selections from the newly de-subscripted KCCC, but I found myself thinking, don't any of these young pups like the 1969 King Crimson? Most of the recommendations are for shows from 1971 to 1974. Then I checked my shelves, and realized that except for Club #1, there aren't any 1969 releases. I urge attentive listeners to recall that the Epitaph box might serve as a foundation for listenting to all the rest of the live King Crimson catalog. I really like Volume 4 from the Chesterfield Jazz Club, featuring a haunting "Travel Weary Capricorn." I got my Epitaph Vols. 3 and 4 for $5 each at the merch. table at a ProjeKct Two show in San Francisco, and I see DGM still sells discs 1-2, 3-4, or all 4 together. Listening to these blistering shows really helps you see what an earth-shattering revelation the first Crim really was. Happy listening. "We can not govern the wind, but we can learn to raise the sails." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 09:03:37 +0100 From: Wilcox660 at aol dot com Subject: DGM I'd like to take a moment to wear my "professional" hat as a journalist, in light of recent announcements. Over the years I have been sent many DGM releases for review & written about a good portion of them. I must state that every release challenged & often delighted my ears, heart & mind. Every publicist & contact for DGM were & are of the highest caliber & helpful to a fault. With the narrowing of focus in Frippville to more Crimsony matters, it needs to be mentioned that quality was never an issue. I applaud the efforts of all involved in every aspect of DGM & look forward to future endeavors with an open mind & ever-open ears. My sincere thanks for a thrilling ride! John A.Wilcox / ProgSheet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 23:31:20 +1000 From: "Igor Avramovski Aleksandrov" Subject: The value of a Tool concert I doubt very much that the person complaining about the $100 ticket price for KC/Tool shows has seen Tool live or given their music half the chance it deserves. I've seen Tool twice this year in Sydney and the tickets cost me about $100AU (about $54US) each time. I agree that concert prices are going through the roof, but the Tool concerts were too cheap for what they were. A Tool show is not just a concert. It is a magical, enlightening experience that is worth much greater sacrifices than $100 or even $1000US (if you don't have it, sell your car or something). In retrospect, if I had to make a choice, I would trade all of the 30 to 40 great concerts (of a similar or higher price) I've seen for a live Tool experience. If Tool and KC were to tour Australia together .... I can't imagine finding the right words of gratitude for such a blessing. I know it's hard thinking of KC as a support act, but I believe Tool have far too much respect for KC to view or present them as such. Cheers, Igor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 10:09:40 -0400 From: "Jim" Subject: Re: USA Laurent wrote in ET #975 >So the original version of > USA is still missing, but I understand this will no longer > be the case with > the imminent (?) 30th anniversary edition. BTW, still - >by far - my favourite '74 live release. I hate to disappoint all you Crimheads who are salivating for this release, but I don't recall the LP being all that great. Like all LP's, it was short, about 40 minutes, with choppy editing and some overdubs, and except for Asbury Park everything else must has been done about a dozen times on the other live releases. How many live versions of 21st CSM or LTIA PartII do we need? Spend your money on The Great Deceiver or the Night Watch - both are super albums with lots of depth. The same remarks go for Earthbound too! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 14:41:23 -0400 From: "Ryan Tassone" Subject: "21st" /"Heart of the Sunrise" parallels; my own questions-- Regarding similarities between KC's "21st Century Schizoid Man" and Yes' "Heart of the Sunrise," Steve Howe (guitarist for the latter band) says: "I always thought the riff was influenced by '21st Century Schizoid Man,' but I suppose we got away with it." That quote appears in the book Yesstories. Personally, I never noticed the similarity. In "Heart of the Sunrise," the riff is much more frantic and drawn out, with harmonies all over the place and no pauses, while in "21st" everybody plays the same notes, including the drummer, and they all stop on a dime. In spirit, the two are perhaps kindred (and also in tempo and mode, incidentally), however. Both are wonderful pieces! And onto a few comments of my own. I just bought KC's Level Five EP, and what an EP it is...so many strange moments. I don't remember the show I attended (December 8, Boston) sounding anything like most of this! Here are my questions/observations: 1. Who is speaking at the beginning of "Dangerous Curves?" I recognize Adrian's voice later on, but I can't match a face to the repeated "Could you turn the lights down, please? 'Fact, turn 'em off." Is it PM? He sounds so different than I thought he would, if that's the case. 2. The song "Level Five" sounds so familiar...I finally realized that it's partly a continuation of "too many eeeee's" from Nashville Rehearsals 1997! 3. Many ET'ers have remarked that "The ConstruKction of Light" on L5 is the best version, with great vocals from AB and superb playing all around. I can understand the praise of the actual playing; Pat and Trey mix things up awesomely, as usual, and the two guitarists are in top form. But I can honestly say I have never heard Adrian sing worse than he does when "TCoL" is played live, and this goes for all recordings I've heard. And please, this is not "Ade-bashing," I'm just wondering what anybody hears in these performances that I'm apparently missing; he sounds like he's suddenly adopted a Texan accent, and the stream-of-consciousness sections have a halting, strained quality to them. Again, no insult to the singer, he has been known to lose breath on occasion, which I don't blame him for in the least. My confusion is with the fans who celebrate this performance as if it were a cut above the album version. Please, if you're reading this, could you explain to me your re! a soning? 4. Lastly, does anybody know who is playing the otherwordly guitar (I think) part at the beginning of "Virtuous Circle?" It sounds like it could be either Robert or Adrian, or perhaps not even a guitar at all (electronic sound from Pat, Trey, etc.). It's a new voice in the KC vocabulary, either way, and I like it, so can anyone tell me who's doing it? Thanks, thanks, Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 21:53:20 -0300 From: "Mohallem" Subject: Mohallem's Fripp Biography Hello ETers, I have written a humble Robert Fripp (and King Crimson) biography. If anyone is interested in reading it, or even putting it online, email me privately. See ya. Eduardo Mohallem - Belo Horizonte, Brazil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 02:24:21 -0400 (EDT) From: david craig Subject: Trey Gunn's posting[s?] to ET? Trey Gunn has posted to ET on at least one occasion that I recall, possibly more. Can anyone recall in which digest issue that post or postings appeared?. Even a clue what search string to try at would be great; I'm not really willing to plow through the hits on "Trey Gunn". Brilliant suggestions welcome. (In this regard, the answer to the FAQ is not as helpful as it might be.) Thanks, David Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:26:58 -0500 From: "Lassen, James Leo" Subject: Double Trio live songs... I was looking at some setlists from 1995 and 96 and noticed that the band played Waiting Man and The Sheltering Sky at a number of shows. I'm thinking how cool that must have been, but I also wonder why those songs aren't on any compilations or anything out there. How were the double trio's versions of these songs? I'm quite curious! Thanks James ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:47:31 -0400 From: "Brown, Ken" Subject: Buckeyball/Magna Carta - clarification. First off, it was I (KBrown at us dot imshealth dot com) who send the post about Buckyball and not thoward at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. Mar(c)K then wrote: >...few on ET I would say are Joe Average in terms of music creed. That's true, but I still doubt many knew of this label.<< Which might be true Marc, but it does seem a bit presumptuous of you to decide because you have not heard of a label no one else as. Then Marc says: >So my hand is raised high. I never mind when people show they're more hip than I'd imagined.<< Ahh gee thanks, but I never assume I am hipper then anyone anymore, since when I do I find out about some band/record I never knew existed that I need to own. Like when you, Marc pointing me to Nels Cline "Silencer" cd. To finish Mr. Tucker wrote: >>Every release looked pretty good, true. Am I misunderstanding you: do you >>consider Magna Carta to be on a higher level than DGM (quality-wise, that is >>- I'd never consider 'quantity' to be a determinant of any occupation of a >>level)? I'd have to disagree, even given they're kinda apples 'n oranges. No, I do not consider Magna Carta to be of higher quality, the reverse actually (sorry to Dan @ magna carta). While I have sampled many MC releases and enjoyed a few, the overall theme of the label is not a type of music I enjoy. (more metally approach to progrock) Keep the Faith (in the Music) Ken Brown Recommendation of the week: Bjorkenheim/Haker Flaten/Nilssen-Love Scorch Trio (http://www.runegrammofon.com/Catalog_RCD_2025.html) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:19:30 -0500 From: Albert Oller Subject: Re: Nashville Rehearsals (Club13) reviews? Hi all, completely unimportant posting will follow. Nashville Rehearsals is my favorite KCCC release. It was exactly the type of recording I hoped the club would provide. Most of the songs on the cd didn't develop into official KC material, but hearing the things that they excluded as 'not worthy' is impressive to me. I would recommend this cd on its musical merits: the cirKulations, Jimmy Bond and Tony's Jam are all excellent; and also as something that provides insight into the band: they are hashing out ideas with their instruments and it sounds like they are having a really good time doing that. "It sounds amazing, but who else would want to do that?" Regards, ago ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 10:28:04 -0400 From: "Brown, Ken" Subject: Heart of the Sunrise - Yes/KC Clifford Jordan wrote: >the Yes song "Heart of the Sunrise" i thought to myself "wait a minute..." >and "is this.. is this King.. no, its not.. but it sounds EXACTLY like old >King Crimson.. I know thats a Bruford drum beat... in fact this song sounds >exactly like the middle section of 21CSM" and then i downloaded the Yes >song, and listened to KC, and they are extremely similar. and the yes song >was put out 3 years after the KC song...im sure this similarity has been >talked about before, but id like to know if anyone else noticed this. I do not remember anyone here bring this up, but i have only been on the list for eight years or so. I never thought of 21CSM when listening to HotS. The song I always think of is Starless. The part when Bill starts laying down fills against Squire's bass bit at the beginning of the song, reminds of the bit in Starless when Fripp is slowly building his guitar part and Billy is playing little fills. One of the versions on Great Deceiver box set really brings this comparison out. As for the part I do believe you are referring to were everybody plays the same notes at the same time. Bit of stretch to thing that Crim was the first band to do this, or that Yes songs pays tribute to this. But hey ya never know. keep the faith (in the music) ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 16:22:35 -0400 From: "Nik Smith" Subject: What's a touch guitar/Warr guitar anyway? What is it? What do they actually sound like? Anyone have any isolated sounds of either of them, or a certain point in a song when you can REALLY hear it. -Nik ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:11:58 -0400 From: Steve Gould Subject: funny blurb from MTV's The Osbournes web page MTV: What current music are you into? Ozzy: We have no option but to listen to Tool morning, noon and f**kin' night, it's Tool this, Tool that! You know, it's really funny. The other night my son said to me, "I went to see Tool last night, Dad, and saw this great band who opened for them, a band called King Crimson." I said, "Oh yeah, I've heard of them." I was like, if you like King Crimson, you probably want to listen to Yes, then you might want to listen to a band called Gentle Giant. He says, "Really?" And he comes back to me the next day and he says, "I got a chance to listen to the Gentle Giant album. It's f**king great music. How did you know about them?" Oh, I've only been around for f**king 35 years. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:26:48 -0500 From: "david" Subject: Lark`s tongues in aspic II cover Hi people, mi band (From Peru, South America) is playing "Lark`s tongues in aspic II" as a part of its performance in the concerts here in Peru, the Bamd is called ETER-K, and we made a tune called "talking to the king" in our CD, paying homage to our main band, KING CRIMSON, the best. Will there be any problem if the song apppear in a recording in concert? because there are some bootlegs of our band that include this song. IVAN ZURRIBURRI ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #976 ********************************