Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #975 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 975 Saturday, 4 May 2002 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: Tickets for NYC David Sylvian Show Re: cue rone/online buying re: Project Eno Alert!! Robert Fripp Album Query Re: KC should NOT tour with Tool DGM and other ethical business Who's the real Tool here? Mgna Carta / DGM? Gatefolds Sylvian tour dates Fripp on the new Satriani album Nashville Rehearsals (Club13) reviews? Re: kc/tool ticket prices yes/king crimson / buffalo 66 USA GIG REVIEW: David Sylvian in DC ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 09:07:16 -0400 From: "David Daniels" Subject: GIG BIZ: Tickets for NYC David Sylvian Show I realize that this is a bit off topic, but I have 2 extra tickets available for David Sylvian's show at Town Hall in NYC this Sunday May 5th. Great seats, row M center. Tickets are $45 bucks each (the face value is $38, plus the TicketMaster fees). If interested email at ddaniels at monmouth dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:05:09 +0100 From: Tim Bowness [mailto:tim dot bowness at virgin dot net] Subject: Re: cue rone/online buying rone wrote: > If you undercut > the larger retailers, why would they bother selling your CD? If an artist/label sells online (therefore, having no distributor costs or retail mark-up), they can usually afford to pass on the savings to their most important factor for being, their audience. In most cases I know of, they do. High Street retailers are well aware that many bands/labels operate mail order/internet services that undercut them. They're also well aware that these services usually only appeal to hardcore fans and not the majority of customers that usually buy from Tower or HMV. If a band is perceived to be big enough or is on a big enough label, they'll get stocked regardless. Unfortunately, as I suggested in my previous email, corporate dominance is increasing. Even some bands with loyal followings are finding it difficult to get stocked in the shops at the moment. > I have bought CDs from DGM instead of, say, Amazon, simply because i > would rather let DGM have my $16 than let Amazon have my $14.50, of > which they already paid DGM $8 (or whatever) in advance. The > difference in price is not high enough that it will cause me to > bargain-shop. I realize some people might simply prefer to save a > buck, but i would assume that most people on this list, at least, > would rather support DGM in any way that is feasible. An extra $1.50 > per CD does not strike me as an extreme hardship. In the indie shops I bought my DGM albums from (shops that are also struggling for survival), the savings were closer to the $6 mark and in the case of the ProjeKcts and Great Deceiver box sets, $15-$22 (NB full price UK CDs usually retail at $20-25). Not the best excuse for not paying the artists directly perhaps, but slightly more than merely saving a buck. My original point (which wasn't DGM specific) that if an online operation doesn't undercut High Street prices, it gives less incentive for people to buy from them, remains. Regards, Tim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:05:57 +0100 From: LabCSA at aol dot com [mailto:LabCSA at aol dot com] Subject: re: Project Eno Alert!! To all ET friends, A group of Boston-area musicians have organized Project Eno, which will showcase much of Eno's finest works from albums including Taking Tiger Mountain by Strategy, Here Come the Warm Jets, Another Green World, and Before & After Science. Project Eno: A Night of Music and Mystery The website address should be http://Islapiko.com/projecteno/index.html Setlist includes: Needles in the Camel's Eye Burning Airlines Driving Me Backwards King's Lead Hat The Fat Lady Of Limbourg The True Wheel Baby's On Fire Her Comes the Warm Jets Backwater St Elmo's Fire Blank Frank By This River China My China Third Uncle Now, all Fripp fans know that his BEST guitar solo ever was the burner on "Baby's On Fire," right?? I hope you can all make it, participate online or at least toss on some Fripp & Eno and enjoy!! Best wishes, Chuck Stack (the naughty satirical American capitalist pig! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 15:25:09 -0500 From: "Brandon S." Subject: Robert Fripp Album Query I'm looking at a discography at a Microsoft site of Robert Fripp's, and there are a few recordings that i've never heard of before. Here they are, as listed: 1993: Kings 1998: Lightness: Music for the Marble Palace Has anyone ever heard of these? Are they bootlegs? Brandon Stanley ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:09:33 -0600 From: "Guido Vacano" Subject: Re: KC should NOT tour with Tool "Steve" writes: > I didn't go to the last Los Angeles Tool/KC show because the tickets cost > $100. A friend went, and said that Crimson played for less than an hour. > If I had paid a hundred bucks for a show that short I would have been > furious. I generally avoid expensive shows myself. However, the show is KC and Tool, not KC alone, so you would not have paid "for a show that short". It appears that you don't like Tool, which is fine, but you could at least admit (grudgingly, of course) that they do exist. The show was significantly less expensive in Denver, but then, everything's more expensive in L.A., isn't it? > I am very glad I didn't go to that show. Well, you seem very certain of that, for someone who could not possibly know what he missed (after all, you weren't there). > I very much want to see > them on this tour, but I think that price is highway robbery. > I realize this will probably piss off some readers, but I don't care. > Concert ticket prices are out of control. And King Crimson is not an > opening act. Yes, concert ticket prices are out of control. I've missed a number of shows this year because the prices were absurd (and no, I'm not glad I missed them). As for King Crimson not being an "opening act", they sure played like one at the August 3, 2001 Tool/KC show in Denver (especially RF, who was unbelievably lethargic). So you'll probably want to miss them this year too, even though Tool was quite good. P.S. The November 19 John Paul Jones/KC show was excellent. Was that show too expensive? Did you miss that show too? If so, did you feel good about it? Guido N. Vacano, Ph.D. Research Associate/Webmaster Eleanor Roosevelt Institute http://eri.uchsc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 23:07:23 +0100 From: Dan @ magna carta [mailto:dan at magnacarta dot net] Subject: DGM and other ethical business Hello, Just a thanks for the kind words. And a correction for Mark Tucker's post. Echolyn were never signed to Magna Carta (unfortunately); they were signed to SONY which probably had no clue how to market a band like this in the "Alternative Rock" climate of the 1990's. Their "As the World" album is incredible, updating the sound of 70's Gentle Giant and Genesis into the 90's. Grab it if you find a copy, which is tragically out of print. Mark is right about the bottom-line dictates. Even record companies have to pay their bills. I think the only people getting rich are the company officers who signed the right deals at the major labels. As for the rest of us, we definitely care more about the love of music than the marketing & demographics. Wouldn't mind being rich, but it is a great experience working with all these talented artists. >...there are alternatives such as Magna Carta who bring us excellent >progressive music, affordably and honestly.=A0 92ve not been privy to their business model but have heard it=92s little different from anyone=92s, save in those areas it must non-standardly grant (certain rights) in order to compete - I don=92t think that=92s a signatory of ethicality but of necessity. In any event, they follow the same bottom-line dictates (it=92d be interesting to see your defense of their dropping of Echolyn, one of their best [in terms of talent at least, if not sales] acts). Daniel Hanley http://www.magnacarta.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:01:39 -0700 (PDT) From: rone at ennui dot org (figmentality) Subject: Who's the real Tool here? > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:07:33 -0700 > From: "Steve" > Subject: KC should NOT tour with Tool > > As a King Crimson fan for about 20 years, I am not happy about the report > that KC may be touring with Tool again. The main reason I don't want them > to do this has to do with the ticket prices and the length of the show. I > didn't go to the last Los Angeles Tool/KC show because the tickets cost > $100. A friend went, and said that Crimson played for less than an hour. > If I had paid a hundred bucks for a show that short I would have been > furious. I am very glad I didn't go to that show. I very much want to see > them on this tour, but I think that price is highway robbery. Funny, my tickets for the Tool/KC show at Berkeley cost $48.50 (i just checked the stub). Even though the show was short, it was excellent (dare i say, possibly even better than their [longer] show + JPJ at the Warfield in November). For those of us who love KC _and_ Tool, it's a godsend; i certainly got my money's worth, and i'll be there if they do tour together again. > I realize this will probably piss off some readers, but I don't care. > Concert ticket prices are out of control. And King Crimson is not an > opening act. ANY band is an opening act, if they're opening for someone who is "bigger"; for example, Garbage opened for U2 last year. I'm sure that the Tool tour was a nice little financial windfall for KC; why NOT do it again? rone ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 18:15:15 -0700 From: "Mark Tucker" Subject: Mgna Carta / DGM? Re: thoward at cs dot man dot ac dot uk >Marc, you do not say whether you know of this label or not... No, I hadn't known of it, but Chuck Stack himself got ahold of me (very nice cat, as it turns out!) and I checked it out. Pretty righteous label, I hafta say. IN FACT, it looks to me like IT could be a VERY good home for all the now-homeless ex-DGM'ers (ya lis'nen, Buckyball?). >...few on ET I would say are Joe Average in terms of music creed. That's true, but I still doubt many knew of this label. >So my hand is raised high. I never mind when people show they're more hip than I'd imagined. >Although I would say Buckyball Music is at same level as DGM (in quality an >quantity) and not at Magna Carta's level. Every release looked pretty good, true. Am I misunderstanding you: do you consider Magna Carta to be on a higher level than DGM (quality-wise, that is - I'd never consider 'quantity' to be a determinant of any occupation of a level)? I'd have to disagree, even given they're kinda apples 'n oranges. -marc- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 23:54:26 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: Gatefolds At 07:31 PM 5/1/02 GMT, Peter wrote: > > One final question (for now): I'm missing the gatefold edition of >ITCOTCK. Anyone have one for sale? > Currently all the Crimson 30th Anniversary gatefold editions, with the exception of Lizard, are still available at The Artist Shop. You'll find them listed at and . Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC!!! ************************************************************** Artist Shop Radio Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 08:39:10 -0700 From: "dgsaa at winfirst dot com" Subject: Sylvian tour dates Hi everyone, Someone recently posted a David Sylvian tour schedule. I noticed one error...the May 12 San Francisco show is now at the Fillmore, not the Warfield. There may be other inaccuracies too, but this one stood out to me because that's the show I'm attending! :-) --David Shoemaker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 19:13:33 +0200 From: Svante Pettersson Subject: Fripp on the new Satriani album I found this in totalrock.com's newsmail: >TOTALROCK NEWS FRIDAY, MAY 3 >SATRIANI S STRANGE MUSIC > >Guitar hero Joe Satriani is to release his latest album, Strange Beautiful >Music , in late June. It features a guest appearance from King Crimson s >Robert Fripp. Satriani will co-headline a US tour with Dream Theater in >August/September, with King s X also on the bill. /Svante ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:26:45 -0500 From: Lee Gray Subject: Nashville Rehearsals (Club13) reviews? DGM sent me Nashville Rehearsals instead of Beat Club. Rather than send it back, I may keep it, but I'd like to hear some opinions before breaking the shrink wrap. I like the two song samples, but they don't blow me away, and the two reviews on ET are positive, but they don't really convince me to keep it. Any others? Thanks, Lee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 00:21:33 -0400 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: kc/tool ticket prices >I realize this will probably piss off some readers, but I don't care. >Concert ticket prices are out of control. And King Crimson is not an >opening act. I totally agree. I mean, I love tool, but i dont know if id pay 100 for any concert. the highest ticket price ive ever paid was for a 3 day music festival. and that was about 115. Ticket prices are OUTRAGEOUS, and you can tell me it costs money to tour and there's a reason for it etc etc till the damn cows come, it wont make me buy the ticket. and while king crimson is NOT an opening band, i like the idea of that tour and i think both bands should pay for 2 hours each. now, when i saw king crimson before they played for prbably less than an hour and half. maybe a lot less than that, i dont remember. so, under an hour doesnt sound that bad to me. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 02:26:46 -0400 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: yes/king crimson / buffalo 66 first of all, im sure some of you have seen Vincent Gallo's excellent film "Buffalo 66", and if not seen it at least taken note of it because it features songs by King Crimson and Yes. well, the movie rules and so do those songs. but i am really writing this because when i saw the movie it was one of the first times ive ever heard Yes. ive heard The Clap, which is really great, and Ive Seen All Good People, and i downloaded the revealing science of god because it was super long, and i just bought Close to the Edge on record for like a buck cause it looked interesting and i thought why not(though i have yet to really listen to it)... but as the scene in the movie comes on with the Yes song "Heart of the Sunrise" i thought to myself "wait a minute..." and "is this.. is this King.. no, its not.. but it sounds EXACTLY like old King Crimson.. I know thats a Bruford drum beat... in fact this song sounds exactly like the middle section of 21CSM" and then i downloaded the Yes song, and listened to KC, and they are extremely similar. and the yes song was put out 3 years after the KC song...im sure this similarity has been talked abuot before, but id like to know if anyone else noticed this. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 14:13:50 +0200 From: Laurent Masse Subject: USA >With all of the live recordings of the mid-70's KC available now in boxed >sets, collector's club releases, etc., has anybody been able to determine if >any or all of the USA performances already exist in one of these other >forms? For example, I seem to recall that USA's "Asbury Park" was an improv >taken from a live performance at Asbury Park. The Live disc from the "Frame >by Frame" boxed set has a performance of "Asbury Park", which, I assume, is >the same performance. Do any of the other USA performances exist elsewhere? >In other words, could USA already be released on CD and we just never >realized it? The only two cuts available somewhere else are "Asbury Park" on Frame by Frame 4 and "21st CSM" on Great Deceiver 2. Both are remixed. Very hard to tell for 21CSM, more evident for Asbury Park. So the original version of USA is still missing, but I understand this will no longer be the case with the imminent (?) 30th anniversary edition. BTW, still - by far - my favourite '74 live release. Cheers Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 09:08:37 -0400 From: "Justin Weinberg" Subject: GIG REVIEW: David Sylvian in DC I just thought I'd write in to recommend catching David Sylvian on his current U.S. tour. I saw him and his band last night (5/2) at DC's 9:30 Club. I believe it was the first stop on the tour. Strnagely, this was the first ticket I bought for a show at the 9:30 Club (a general admission, standing venue) that explicitly said "no seats" on it. It was also the first time I'd been to a show there where they did in fact have seats--the place was set up as a theater with folding chairs. I'm not a Sylvian fanatic, but I do enjoy his work. His band is quite talented and the sound was rich, clear, and, importantly, not loud. In fact, this might have been the best _sounding_ rock concert I have ever been to. While the bassist (electric and acoustic) wore a kilt, it was the quite talented keyboard player who was guilty of the (be-kilted) Nick Beggs-like monsters of rock face (familiar to those who saw JPJ open for Crimson last time out). Steve Jansen competently drummed, and Sylvian and an artsy second player handled the guitars. Sylvian's deep voice was in top form. The set list included a few new pieces and some very interesting new arrangements of old material. I especially enjoyed the new arrangement of "Jean the Birdman"--which happened to be the only song played from the 90's Fripp-Sylvian albums. There were some rockin' tunes and aggressive moments, but overall this is a mellower concert experience than your typical KC outing. It might be the kind of concert to which you can bring your girlfriend or wife (depending on who's free--ha ha), that she would actually enjoy. Justin ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #975 ********************************