Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #971 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 971 Thursday, 25 April 2002 Today's Topics: Venal Venues & The Root of Boots The Beatles - Eno terminology American body, english brain DGM Artist letter of agreement Faraquet Re: The Master What to buy, what to buy! Colonial colonics blasphemy Re: ET #970 Re: The Collapse of Fripp Dot-Com...from an American Businessman's Re: collector's club and suggestions Re: Videos One for another I don't agree with Charles R. Stack MPH ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:51:29 -0700 From: "Mark Tucker" Subject: Venal Venues & The Root of Boots Re: Donovan Mayne-Nicholls: >...comes to show how little has Fripp learned over years in the business. I'm both "with ya" and "agin ya" on this. I haven't yet heard that his venture has folded but it wouldn't surprise me. I think he tried his damnedest to get a responsible competitive product line out but lacked, as you observe, true business acumen (VERY few artists have this). When the Club first started, you could pick up a LOT of the stuff for much better prices than stores, plus they ran specials, collector's items, etc. The tone was warm and friendly and it seemed they had a positive attitude. Apparently, though, whomever his agent was, he turned out to be either not very savvy or not very trustworthy (I didn't catch the story, so if anyone knows the skinny, please inform). He then tried transferring the enterprise into a new incarnation, which, as we know, went fot a while, but escalated the pricing structure and appeared to have a number of problems. Again, hardly surprising. Business is a predatory act and not native to aesthetics - ever wonder why 90% of the businessmen you meet are out-and-out dicks? Fripp ran a series of his business theories in Musician magazine, years back. I'd always meant to dissect them and show their faults, but never got around to it. The paradigm wasn't that bad, but had fatal flaws. I even went to speak with him about them at a Frippertronics concert at the Roxy (Hollywood), but the question and answer period degenerated almost from the start (the lion's share of KC fans are bogglingly arrested-growth). When he started fielding "What is your favorite color, Robert?" questions, I was taken aback; when he then went on to extoll the fact the he and Eno had *shared a few women*, I left - it was obvious his intelligence wasn't going to be on display. >I prefer not to fall in the grasp of a credit card. Smart move. You're WAY ahead of the curve on that choice. >Had, however, these releases been available through normal channels (record >stores), I would have definitely got them all. Money was not the issue. For the artist, it is. You get screwed royal when you release thru labels and distributors other than your own - they're their venues and they'll skin you alive if you're not in a unique position (and most artists aren't...unless they're the Rolling Stones or The Who). This is why you see so many artists hitting the Web - it's their only chance of obtaining a fair percentage of the list price of the product - BUT, it's a lot of work and hassle, too, and so ends up being a Pyrrhic action, most often. THAT'S why you see so many leaving the Web-sell. >He could have released the same stuff as EXTREMELY LIMITED EDITION BOX SETS >and probably would have sold them all. As intimated above, the logistics would probably be forbidding. >Check ELP's OFFICIAL BOOTLEG SERIES. Originally they sold the ISLE OF WIGHT >gig only through their web site but have now released it openly. I'm told they do not run it personally but have someone else handling it; if so, we're back to the personnel problem Fripp encountered. >All dinosaur bands got on the sales-through-the-net wagon as if it was >Pandora's box... For the small-time artists, it was and still is; usually it isn't for the Big Guys. >...forgetting all the while that normal people like to buy their discs in a >PHYSICAL TANGIBLE SPACE. That's changing. Here in the US, chain music stores are downsizing a LOT, while the mom 'n pop shops are on the upswing again. What this has represented has been a revelation of the idiot mindsets of the chains and a reincarnation of shops that cater to the collector/serious listener. In both cases, though, the Web has captured a LOT of the market: some people don't like traipsing into stores that are basically alternative hang-outs for the local Teen Center or high schools, and the selections are often not very wide - all radio shlaga and not much else (and the friggin' music they choose to play over the in-store systems - ai-yi-yi!). The verdict is still out on whether the Net is going to ultimately be a viable store for music, but it's certainly not an unprofitable one at present. I suspect, though, that you're right - people ultimately prefer being able to hold the product in their hand and have as wide a selection as possible in one physical location - I know I do. >Fripp should rerelease the discs in box sets like he originally did with >THE GREAT DECEIVER back in 92. Couldn't agree with you more. >What Fripp SHOULD DEFINITELY NOT DO is release more compilations. EVER. >He's probably the least balanced person to assess his own musical >contributions and fans should boycott his attempts at recycling previously released stuff. Don't agree there. The "Heaven" anthlogies were masterpieces (am I correctly informed that he pulled them together?), the "Young Person's" guides were great, and the box sets are perfect. I have no arguments with any of the mainstream concert multi-sets either. >A box set collection that systematically uses all available vintage tapes >(there can't be THAT many soundboard recordings from the seventies. He might as well release the extant all at once) is called for. Don't be so sure. A little-known "secret" is that MANY, if not most, of the good bootlegs out there ultimately derive from the musicians themselves, palming them off to bootleggers for a piece of the action up front. If you think about it for a bit, it makes perfect sense: there are a LOT of really good boots that just couldn't have been made otherwise (reference Zappa's home library if you want an idea of how zealously musicians hoard and guard their live performances, then extrapolate that out and you'll understand that most big-time musicians have tremendous libraries of their live gigs; that's why you see a cassette deck [and, now, a CD-burner, I'd imagine] in every soundboard at every concert - if I'm correctly informed, artists are contractually forbidden to release those tapes - the labels fret over every cent that might go somewhere other than to themselves - unless they buy back that part of the contract's rights; few do, it ain't cheap). Cool, intelligent letter, Donovan. -marc- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:14:52 -0400 From: "Ryan Tassone" Subject: The Beatles - Eno terminology Hi, all, I wonder if anybody knows the answers to these questions, because the FAQ doesn't, last time I checked: 1. The raging guitar riff at the beginning of "Easy Money" is almost identical to the riff heard in the instrumental bridge of The Beatles' "Come Together!" The rhythm and melody are very close, but the tempo is slightly different. It's best heard on the Nightwatch, CD1. Anybody else notice this? 2. I was reading the credits to Robert Fripp's Exposure album, and therein he thanks Brian Eno for introducing him to "sky saw guitar." What does this mean? I have the Eno album which features a song called "Sky Saw" (Another Green World), but it offers no definition of this term. The term is also used to describe RF's contribution to David Sylvian's "Riverman," which as far as I can tell is just a guitar with some overdrive and maybe some chorus effects. Does anybody know what "sky saw" means? Thanks, Ryan See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_020201/splash.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 00:43:32 -0500 From: Don Hosek Subject: American body, english brain -On top of all that, this colonial boy is quite personally miffed that Bob -slams the US side of the pond with the following quotation: ->From Robert Fripp's Diary, Saturday 6 April 2002: -> -> >> 8. DGM US Office: Mixed. It may be impossible for an American office to ->> have an English brain, unless that English brain is also resident in the ->> American body. -Please tell me, Bob, why the US office failed because it lacked an English -brain?! How many ET'ers are communicating with British PCs, using British -software? I have worked in your country, even won an award from your -Department of Trade & Industry, and can summarise your English business ethic -in a single word: FRIGHTENED! To whit = Risk Averse, Overly Cautious, -Arrogant and Fixated In Your (Colonial) Past! I maybe wrong, but that's not how I interpretted this. I read it as reflecting on the limitations of trying to run a fulfillment office in Los Angeles from a management office in England. But then as the rest of the post revealed, we're dealing with someone with a significant ax to grind here... -dh -- Don Hosek, bassist http://don.dream-in-color.net/ Dream in Color - http://www.dream-in-color.net/ http://www.mp3.com/DreamInColor/ 312/953-3679 don at dream-in-color dot net "When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." -Mahatma Gandhi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 00:47:56 -0500 From: Don Hosek Subject: DGM Artist letter of agreement Way back in '99 or so, RF had posted the DGM artist letter of agreement in his diary. I copied it thinking that it was an interesting model for a recording contract, but have since lost what I'd downloaded. Does anyone have a copy of this that they could forward on to me? And towards the inevitible discussion that this might trigger: Perhaps it's not a viable model for a record label, but it does seem to be a good starting point for a band's self-released CD. -dh -- Don Hosek, bassist http://don.dream-in-color.net/ Dream in Color - http://www.dream-in-color.net/ http://www.mp3.com/DreamInColor/ 312/953-3679 don at dream-in-color dot net "When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." -Mahatma Gandhi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:21:53 +0200 From: George Koopman Subject: Faraquet Hi everybody, recently I stumbled upon the Washington band Faraquet, hearing two songs of them. It sounds close enough to the 80s KC (while being a trio) that this might be interesting to other ET-ers. Check them out, see if you like them. Greetings, George * Some are not smart enough to have a smart quote finishing their post * - me ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:55:33 +0100 From: Tim Bowness Subject: Re: The Master > that's as close as I'm ever going to > get to being in the presence of the master Just to clarify that my ET #970 posting was the one credited to John Brower and not the passage regarding Eric Tamm's book partly quoted above. [ My apologies -- Toby ] As much as we respected Robert, when we worked together on No-Man's 'Flowermouth', calling him 'The Master' wasn't something that myself and Steven Wilson did. However, I can testify to his uncanny similarity to Doctor Who's arch enemy. :-) My posting was as follows: Burning Shed is now stocking the excellent 'Mastica 99' album. Comprising King Crimson drummer Pat Mastelotto and husband and wife team Gum B and Monkey, Mastica have produced a debut album that inventively combines contemporary US Indie Rock edge, Sylvian/Ferry-esque moods and experimental Froom/Waits production values. Without doubt, one of the most distinctive extra-curricular projects to emerge out of the KC universe. We also have the debut Henry Fool album available. The album's been getting some good reviews in the Progressive press, features a few fine'n'tricky time signatures (anyone for 25/8) and has drawn favourable comparisons with King Crimson, Porcupine Tree, Soft Machine and early Genesis, as well as the likes of Rain Tree Crow and God Speed You Black Emperor. Both albums are available from the 'shop' section of www.burningshed.com for the price of 11 Pounds inclusive of p&p UK and 12 Pounds inclusive of p&p elsewhere. Tim ---- http://come.to/no-man http://www.no-man.co.uk http://www.burningshed.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 07:18:10 -0500 From: Lee Gray Subject: What to buy, what to buy! Now that I can buy individual KCCC releases, please advise! For the "Islands" band, judging by the DGM site ratings and some of the reviews I've read, I'm trying to decide between Live in Detroit (club18) and Live at Summit Studios (club9). For the '72-74 band, I'm completely undecided since I already have (and love) The Great Deceiver box and The Nightwatch. Is there an essential club release to get in addition to these? Thanks! Lee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 07:44:39 -0500 From: "David F. Snyder" Subject: Colonial colonics >Perspective >Dear ET'ers, like many of you, I share your sadness and disbelief [blah, blah] Funny that disbelief can be based on Mr. Stack's assessment of the DGM business model, where he says ... >Instead, the Fripp "Laments" [oh-ho, how funny!] the collapse of proud DGM >into a Not-For-Profit >venture, which could easily have been predicted based on his business model >of "for the artist, by the artist"... Hmmm. Disbelief ... ? >On top of all that, this colonial boy is quite personally miffed that Bob >slams the US side of the pond with the following quotation: > >> >Please tell me, Bob, why the US office failed because it lacked an English >brain! This is not what he's saying. You may be miffed, but likely that's because you're dense. > >Long ago, THIS colonial boy predicted that DGM dot-com could never succeed as >a record company primarily focussed upon one 30 year-old band, with one band >leader, and without a musical product of broad appeal! There's that prediction again. I am stunned by the prescience, but also that Mr. Stack claims disbelief as noted above. >Perhaps you should >have explored RAP, or TURNTABLES, or other nascent musical forms reviled on >ET lately, Bob! You may have made some money!! Cheers from the profitable >side of the pond, better luck next time, Charles R. Stack, MPH, President of >Charles Stack & Associates, Inc. (highly profitable, thank you!) > Wow. Mr. Stack is SO smart and business-savvy. And profitable. Whoa! I better go out and get me some of that moolah! Me macho bizhomeboy in the colonial hood. Get this perspective: RAP and TURNTABLES in 20 years will mainly be listened to by aging frat boys going through mid-life crisis. Yo! Respectfully submitted, David Snyder ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:35:10 -0500 From: "Jonathon Smith" Subject: blasphemy You know, this is complete irrelevant... I was in a computer lab at school the other day and this kid was playing this loud, metal shit in his headphones. Everybody in the room could here it, and it was annoying as hell. Anyway, he finally gets up to leave [thank God], and I notice he's wearing a King Crimson tour t-shirt from last year. What blasphemy. Jonathon "Wisdom comes in many guises, and it's a wise man who can see the value in simple humbleness." [Kevin Max] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 06:50:30 -0700 From: John Brower Subject: Re: ET #970 It looks like some of the headers were transposed in this issue. I was commenting on Projekct-like music and recommended Attention Deficit, Bozzio/Levin/Stevens and Polytown. I am not familiar with Burning Shed. Best regards, John B. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 22:46:50 -0400 From: LabCSA at aol dot com Subject: Re: The Collapse of Fripp Dot-Com...from an American Businessman's Hello! You posted my name, but not my tongue-in-cheek posting about the collapse of DGM and Robert's "acumen" as a businessman (my original ET submission follows as MS WORD attachment...you listed my name but not the text of the attached!) In retrospect, perhaps I was a bit "harsh" on old Bob and his mates, but this Yank found offense with his slam against us Americans for not having "British" brains! Bob & Co. tried the now-disproven dot.com business model that has failed virtually all who participated in it (Chicago was a global centre of this fiasco!)...I credit Bob for his ingenuity & entrepreneurship, but like virtually all dot.com businesses, he failed to answer this fundamental question = "Why should anyone buy anything from us via the internet?" I fear that King Crimson and a handful of other eccentric (but excellent!) artists did not lend the critical mass to DGM for it to succeed... DGM was in on the cutting-edge of the dot.com phenomena, and I am sure Bob lost quite a bit of his hard-earned cash in the deal...however, sound business principles must always prevail as a law of nature! The dot-coms failed to deliver what people wanted, including Pets.com, Peapod.com, even Amazon.com!! Robert is to be admired for attempting to establish an "ethical" business model, but in fact, these are not that unusual to find...we are surrounded worldwide with the honest bloke or miss who works hard, does not cheat his/her customers, and is more than fair to those who work for him/her. Perhaps this is not the norm in entertainment & recording, but "that's show biz!" I first met Bob in 1981, in Riverside (outside of Chicago) when he played "Frippertronics" (Revox, Gibson Les Paul and very basic "Fripp Pedal-board"!) to a very excited & receptive audience. Even back then, he lectured to us about the evils of the "dinosaur" record companies and their odious practices. He said he could make more money selling records out of the back of a truck...20 years ago! Alas, he couldn't make it work even with the Internet... We may all find the recording industry generally odious, but there are alternatives such as Magna Carta who bring us excellent progressive music, affordably and honestly. Another example is the outstanding Buckyball Music...Therefore, I find Bob's constant hectoring on the topic during the past 20+ years to be somewhat tiresome, and wish him well in his search for success in the business world. Perhaps he should concentrate upon NEW product (i.e. his King Crimson!) and let the dinosaurs feast as they must. Such is life...I, too must deal with my own corporate dinosaurs, and often find that they can be manipulated into my way of thinking, to my profit!! The dinosaurs are slow, dim, and can be had with the right approach!! Quality music can in fact survive the dreck, if the artists & management are clever enough to package themselves properly!! Look at the success of Phish for example!! (they were "the successors to the Grateful Dead"...did THAT tag sell their music!!) In conclusion, I wish VERY BEST WISHES to you at ET, I hope my first email didn't upset the Brits amongst us...I dearly love England, having lived & worked in Devon...I would fight and die for your country. Perhaps I should have toned it down a bit...you may use editorial rights to excise the more inflammatory bits (I was hoping to stir up some business discussion on ET & perhaps elicit a personal reply from Mr Fripp!!). The British business ethic is EXCELLENCE above all, and fairness! But you blokes take forever to cut a purchase order!! Also....I wish Bob would get off of his "sky is falling" trip, which he has espoused since ITCOCK ("The wall on which the prophets wrote is cracking at the seams...upon the instruments of death, the sunlight brightly gleams...). He broke up the LTIA version of KC because he was startled by the machine-guns of Italian police at a KC gig in Rome...how must he feel now, in these days of crashing planes, anthrax & West Bank bulldozers? And yet, babies are born & life goes on!! And we laugh!! What difference between that lyric of 1969, and the hideous end-of-times imagery Fripp forces upon us with the demise of the DGM website?? Gas masks in a destroyed planet?? I am more optimistic than that & have dedicated my life to a better world... Could we be a bit more cheerful & positive, Mr. Fripp? It is music that shall heal us...positive, uplifting, lovely music! Please write some!! Cheers & best wishes to Toby and all within the arms of ET, Charles Stack, Chicago, IL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:36:16 -0400 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: Re: collector's club and suggestions I know I should resist I know I should resist I know I should resist. Ahh, the hell with it. >From: "Donovan Mayne-Nicholls" >Subject: collector's club and suggestions > >So it looks as if the collector's club has ceased to exist. Well, it was >BOUND to, sooner than later. It comes to show how little has Fripp learned >over years in the business. Omniscience asserted at the onset. Naturally. > I never got into the club myself. As a deprived Latin American, I >prefer not to fall in the grasp of a credit card. You do spend more since >through the net, the world becomes your oyster. Translation: Because I have more choice on the Internet, I tend to buy more on impulse. Which is bad. I should therefore limit myself to real stores with fewer options... >Had, however, these releases >been available through normal channels (record stores), I would have >definitely got them all. Translation: Still, I wish my store carried everything that's on the Internet... >Money was not the issue. As a matter of fact, I >ended up getting the first three box sets in their Japanese issues. Translation: And in fact, I wanted this stuff so badly that I paid more money for less music and had to wait longer to get it. >All dinosaur bands >got on the sales-through-the-net wagon as if it was Pandora's box, >forgetting all the while that normal people like to buy their discs in a >PHYSICAL TANGIBLE SPACE. No. Many normal bands got on the sales-through-the-net wagon, forgetting all the while that dinosaurs need to buy their discs in a PHYSICAL TANGIBLE SPACE. >Maybe through the club Fripp could appeal to all KC >die hards out there but there's another slice of demographics out there that >buy discs on impulse. And we should expect those impulse buyers to be pleased when they buy a new King Crimson archival series CD and get something with less than optimal sound quality, because hey, they damn well ought to know what they're impulse buying. > Fripp should rerelease the discs in box sets like he originally did >with THE GREAT DECEIVER back in 92. Yes! Elaborate, expensive boxed sets will most certainly further spur impulse buying. >Look @ CIRKUS. A really lowsy >compilation assembled from very few sources which had already been >released >in their entirety or would in the short run, etc. Right again! Those impulse buyers could certainly be counted on to have bought all the previous live Crimson CDs and Collector's Club releases (if they had existed, which of course they shouldn't) and could certainly be counted upon to buy all future releases that were previewed on the set, like the unexplained and completely abstract ProjeKct One. Okay, enough of that nonsense. The Collector's Club existed to appeal to those of us who were self-proclaimed hardcore fans. It wasn't meant for impulse buyers, and likely wouldn't have made many of them happy - judging soley from the number of KCCC members who were't happy with all of the releases themselves. It was a way to belong to a group that said, "Yes, this is what we want, and we will proudly support it." If the economical model failed, it's because there weren't enough of us putting our money where our mouths are, ponying up the money and in return getting something special and unique and available nowhere else in the world (including - and if you'd read carefully, you'd know this - those Japanese Pony Canyon box sets). You want to point a finger and proclaim business acumen superior to Fripp's, you go right ahead. At this point, given what he's written, he'd likely agree. But make sure you know what you're saying first, how'bout? (Apologies if you were just trolling, BTW... it just wasn't especially funny.) Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com proud and satified charter subscriber ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:09:17 -0400 From: Tim Subject: Re: Videos > Argentina, I do not believe that this was the same message as that one > with the link to the porno website. For one thing, the email from > VOODOO did not have a website link anywhere in the message - only an > email address. Please don't take this as an endorsement - I have not > purchased anything form VOODOO, and considering the list of titles they > offered, one must at least wonder about the legality of these videos, > not to mention the quality. > > Thanks, > David Vella Read it closer, the web address is on the bottom of the email, it was them. I'm guessing they picked our emails off of the newsletter itself. Toby, any chance of keeping our emails off of the newsletter? I know it makes it impossible to directly reply to anyone, but by virtue of putting them in, our "never shared with anyone" emails are actually shared with anyone who cares to jot them down. Or else we should be more hesitant about posting...which won't make for a good discussion group. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:30:16 -0600 From: "Christian Hess Araya" Subject: One for another So DGM has gone south. But Rick Wakeman has rejoined Yes. Now, if only they unceremoniously dumped White and re-hired Bill B., wouldn't life be sweet? ;-) Christian Hess San Jose, Costa Rica NP: "Underdog", by Flower Kings. This song rocks! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 19/04/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:33:39 +0000 From: "ROGER JEFFERY" Subject: I don't agree with Charles R. Stack MPH Theres always one. Why does Charles R. Stack, MPH, President of Charles Stack & Associates, Inc. feel it necessary to stick the knife in as soon as there is a hint of DGM failing? What does he think there is to be achieved by proudly pointing out Fripps (alleged) failings, and boasting that he saw it coming anyway? Saw what coming? They ran out of money? Money was always tight, and all thats happened is that Fripp and Singleton no longer fancy picking up the tab. DGM has not suddenly flopped, it has merely come to a stage where changes need to be made. The mistake, it seems, is that the artists either misunderstood or taken advantage of DGM, or both: they happily receive ownership of their copyright against the common practice in the record industry, but they fail to realise that DGM is not like a major record company which can simply throw money at an artist (promotion, shipping etc) to make it successful. They can organize it, but not necessarily finance it, which seems fair since the insurance policy of the copyright is surrendered to the artist. If the different approach was only clearly understood by all involved, there is no reason why it should not be successful in its aims. Whatever changes are needed, and whoever is to blame for anything that went wrong, it should be recognised that DGM is a noble enterprise and Fripp and Singleton have, if nothing else, allowed music to enter the world which otherwise would not do so, one of the main business aims, something I very much doubt Stacks profitable company can claim. Fripps point in his diary was about misunderstandings. Stack unwittingly proved this when, true to form, he himself misunderstood it, took umbrage, and quoted it! Perhaps he saw his chance for a bit of Brit-bashing, but we wont get into that. Also his point about musicians not being very good with money is stupid and irrelevant. Whos cleverer, Fripp or President whatshisname MPH from the profitable side of the pond? That, my American friend, is a rhetorical question. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #971 ********************************