Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #970 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 970 Wednesday, 24 April 2002 Today's Topics: Music similar to the ProjeKcts (CENTROZOON) DGM Club King Crimson Collectors Club Concerning Tamm's book on Fripp Re: The Collapse of Fripp Dot-Com...from an American Businessman's Perspecti KCCC & Voodoo The Business -- In All Senses of the Word Cover Version Starless II RE : Music like projeckts Re: Concerning Tamm's book on Fripp Re: Music similar to Projects Mastica/Henry Fool A good word for Tamm Re: collector's club and suggestions Status of DGM mail order? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:46:07 +0100 From: "Lee Fletcher" Subject: Music similar to the ProjeKcts (CENTROZOON) > From: david dot pye at tesco dot net > Subject: Music similar to Projects > > I have been listening to P3, PX and P4 quite a bit recently and would like > to hear more. Does anyone have any suggestions for musicians or groups > working in a similar style? I can't recall having heard anything else > quite like these. I heartily recommend that you investigate the works of Anglo-German trio: CENTROZOON @ www.centrozoon.de Markus Reuter (touch guitar), Bernhard Wostheinrich (synthesizers & percussion), together with English vocalist Tim Bowness create what is perhaps best described as "a new strain of freeform electronica." The spirit of the ProjeKcts is not only alive, but flourishing far beyond the realms of the former KC offshoots. Markus Reuter is perhaps best known amongst ETers for his role within (DGM artists) Europa String Choir, in addition to his growing reputation as a solo loop guitarist. Bernhard is a successful painter, and connoisseur of 'sonic mangling'. The recent addition of (No-Man vocalist) Tim Bowness lends a song-based quality to some of the material, whilst retaining the key principles of CENTROZOON which are essentially rooted in 'free improvisation.' If you like the ProjeKcts, go check them out! Regards, Lee Fletcher ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:55:10 EDT From: Jaminbenb at aol dot com Subject: DGM Club I wouldn't worry, the take I get from reading the info on the "Website formerly known as DGM" is that the only change currently is ANYBODY can order the Club releases at this (to use RF's vernacular) "Present Moment". But it also looks like they are going to move further with a newer version of the club at some point (looks like the fall) Anyway, If you paid you $96. I don't see why you wouldn't get $96. worth of merch. If this is your first foray into the Club, then GO CRAZY and order $96. worth of stuff, I didn't join the first time until they had at least a 1/2 to 2/3's stock of product that I wanted. I personally don't want a lot of the older stuff, my KC tastes run from the 73/74 version the 80's version and the newer versions. At worst you can probably just load up with T-shirts! Crimsonly, Ben <> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:20:33 EDT From: "Peter Badore" Subject: 3 things I was never able to join the collectors club in its original format. However, I was on the website last night and it appears that you can now buy any collectors club editions without paying the $98 in advance. For all of you who, like me, always wanted to join the club but couldn't or didn't, this is your chance to buy some or all of them as you can afford it. Michael USA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:47:30 +0100 From: MichaelWBrownSr at aol dot com Subject: King Crimson Collectors Club Peter Moss has reminded me of my Fripp story which I don't think has ever been told on the list. I was visiting my brother in Nottingham, England in the 1990s, and spotted that Sylvian/ Fripp were playing there that weekend. Being a huge fan of Fripp, I attended the show, on my own, and decided afterwards to see if I could find the stage door, in the vain hope of getting an autograph. The majority of the people there were Sylvian fans and word quickly came thru that David had already left to see his wife and new born child. This thinned out the crowd, and gradually band member began to leave. I decided to get their autographs anyway, just in case they became famous one day (stand up Mr Gunn and Mr Mastelotto). I also was pleased to get Michael Brook's signature as I had been enjoying his Cobalt Blue album at the time. Then Mr Fripp arrived - now remember this was way before widespread internet use and online diaries had made clear the Venal Leader's views on such things. I handed him my programme to sign, which he did. This was followed by a Jean The Birdman CD single which he also autographed. Then I realised that I had the Tamm biography in my bag. I wondered what his attitude to signing someone's biography of him would be. Most of the previous signing of my (and others') stuff had been done in silence with the odd "Thank You". Handing of the copy of Tamm's book, I was immediately eye-balled by Fripp - "Have you read this?" he asked. I replied that I had. "And what did you think of it?". I suppose the honest answer was that this had been the been the book that had filled out my beginners knowledge of RF and his work, and so I had treated it pretty much as definitive. However at times like these it it sometimes better to sit on the fence. "Well, I agreed with some bits, but wasn't so sure about others" I said. (Actually this was pretty much the truth as I feel that Tamm writes off the 80s Crimson, which had been my very introduction to the band). RF nodded his head, opened the book and signed the front page. I would hesitate to say that this was an endorsement. In fact such a brief encounter with a faceless fan could hardly be the basis for saying what Fripp thought of the book at all. However he gave a nod which may have indicated agreement with my assessment. Who knows? Geoff Bailie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:29:08 EDT From: "Geoff Bailie" Subject: Concerning Tamm's book on Fripp Perspective Dear ET'ers, like many of you, I share your sadness and disbelief that Mssr. Fripp & Co. decided to pull the proverbial plug on DGM Records. So much promise, so few profits! Alas, perhaps Robert is not the financial wizard that he has always touted himself to be...I have heard him spout against the "dinosaur" record companies since at least 1981, when he toured US record stores, Revox & Les Paul in hand, touting his business model of selling LPs out of the back of a truck. That is EXACTLY what DGM should have tried, or even giving the damn things away (like AOL's hugely successful promotional efforts!)...many successful musicians give away at least CD samples to stoke interest!! Instead, the Fripp "Laments" the collapse of proud DGM into a Not-For-Profit venture, which could easily have been predicted based on his business model of "for the artist, by the artist"...how many of the great artists in history died in poverty? Mozart, Van Gogh, Schubert, etc....the list is extensive!! Artists historically are not great money-mongers! On top of all that, this colonial boy is quite personally miffed that Bob slams the US side of the pond with the following quotation: >From Robert Fripp's Diary, Saturday 6 April 2002: > > >> 8. DGM US Office: Mixed. It may be impossible for an American office to >> have an English brain, unless that English brain is also resident in the >> American body. Please tell me, Bob, why the US office failed because it lacked an English brain?! How many ET'ers are communicating with British PCs, using British software? I have worked in your country, even won an award from your Department of Trade & Industry, and can summarise your English business ethic in a single word: FRIGHTENED! To whit = Risk Averse, Overly Cautious, Arrogant and Fixated In Your (Colonial) Past! Long ago, THIS colonial boy predicted that DGM dot-com could never succeed as a record company primarily focussed upon one 30 year-old band, with one band leader, and without a musical product of broad appeal! Perhaps you should have explored RAP, or TURNTABLES, or other nascent musical forms reviled on ET lately, Bob! You may have made some money!! Cheers from the profitable side of the pond, better luck next time, Charles R. Stack, MPH, President of Charles Stack & Associates, Inc. (highly profitable, thank you!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 22:46:50 -0400 From: LabCSA at aol dot com Subject: Re: The Collapse of Fripp Dot-Com...from an American Businessman's Hi folks, I've been very busy lately with little time to post, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents regarding two topics which has surfaced lately: Regarding the KCCC, the last time I checked the DGM website (about 4 days ago), in the section about the collector's club, it was explained that for those KCCC members who still had a balance in the club, it would continue as usual (a CD every 2 months) until your subscription was depleted. At that point, I'm not quite sure what is planned, but I got the distinct impression that the club would not end, but that the club titles would be available for purchase directly from the DGM website through the 'shop' feature rather than by advance subscription. So, while things are definitely 'up in the air', I would not panic and worry (yet) unduly about any subscription money you have already sent in. Regarding the email many of us recently received from VOODOO VIDEOs in Argentina, I do not believe that this was the same message as that one with the link to the porno website. For one thing, the email from VOODOO did not have a website link anywhere in the message - only an email address. Please don't take this as an endorsement - I have not purchased anything form VOODOO, and considering the list of titles they offered, one must at least wonder about the legality of these videos, not to mention the quality. Thanks, David Vella PS - I'm about halfway through Sid Smith's book - fascinating reading. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:27:21 -0400 From: David Vella Subject: KCCC & Voodoo Reading RF's recent diary entries, I realize that, more and more, it's advertising that decides for us what we will and what we won't buy. Having been in the biz myself -- though that was years ago -- I learned that advertising usually succeeds in getting us to desire trivial, superficial paraphernalia; the net result is that worthy business concerns get short shrift. DGM is a worthy enterprise, but its integrity and ethical awareness stand isolated in a sea of carnival barking and power-mongering. If only the incredible power of advertising could be harnessed to the more deserving struggles.... --sassure ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:55:18 -0400 From: Dan Gallagher Subject: The Business -- In All Senses of the Word fyi The New Craig Armstrong album As If To Nothing is just out through Virgin, track Starless ll is a new Orchestral Version of the one of my Crimso favs, it also includes part of the original, the introdutory Mellotron and Guitar part , if you already know this and I have wasted your time my apologies Keep up the good work cheers Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:06:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "McManus, Jim" Subject: Cover Version >I really must rush to the defence of Craig Armstrongs >version of "Starless" on his new "As If To Nothing" >album. Indeed. Armstrong's version has allowed me to hear this piece of music in a new way. I recommend JUST listening to it. Forget about the process or how it was made. If you are worried about ability - DON'T. This guy has plenty of ability and taste, IMO. GO.com Mail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:45:01 -0500 From: Timothy Andrew Edwards Subject: Starless II Well the two Dream in Color songs currently on MP3 (http://www.mp3.com/DreamInColor/) have a sound and origin very closely related to the ProjeKcts. We recorded these with a fragment of the band in the fall in a search for some group songwriting genesis. These two aren't going to be anything more than they are, but another track (not on the mp3.com site) is being reworked into song form and will be recorded in the second batch of album sessions that we do. In the meantime, we've got a groovy little piece in 7/4 that most of the tracking will be done with on Saturday, although the first rough mix will probably have to wait until sometime in May. -dh -- Don Hosek, bassist http://don.dream-in-color.net/ Dream in Color - http://www.dream-in-color.net/ http://www.mp3.com/DreamInColor/ 312/953-3679 don at dream-in-color dot net "When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." -Mahatma Gandhi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:52:21 -0400 From: Don Hosek Subject: RE : Music like projeckts I saw the book but never bought it as I recognized too much of it from Fripp interviews. Why pay for what was basically a compilation of things I had already read? I could have done that. Except for the Guitar Craft chapter. Alan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:17:21 -0700 From: "Alan Cohen" Subject: Re: Concerning Tamm's book on Fripp In Elephant Talk #968, David Pye writes: "I have been listening to P3, PX and P4 quite a bit recently and would like to hear more. Does anyone have any suggestions for musicians or groups working in a similar style? I can't recall having heard anything else quite like these." I will take that to mean something like "improvised music in a rock style". Some groups that come to my mind are Attention Deficit (2 recordings on Magna Carta), Bozzio/Levin/Stevens (2 recordings on Magna Carta) and Polytown (1 OP recording on CMP). After reading about it in Sid Smith's book, I picked up "The Repercussions of Angelic Behavior" by Bill Rieflin/Trey Gunn/Robert Fripp, and enjoy it. John B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:51:23 +0100 From: John Brower Subject: Re: Music similar to Projects Burning Shed is now stocking the excellent 'Mastica 99' album. 'Comprising King Crimson drummer Pat Mastelotto and husband and wife team Gum B and Monkey, Mastica have produced a debut album that inventively combines contemporary US Indie Rock edge, Sylvian/Ferry-esque moods and experimental Froom/Waits production values. Without doubt, one of the most distinctive extra-curricular projects to emerge out of the KC universe. Available from the 'shop' section of www.burningshed.com for the price of #11 inclusive of p&p UK and #12 inclusive of p&p elsewhere.' We also have the debut Henry Fool album available in the 'shop' section. The album's been getting good reviews, features a few fine'n'tricky time signatures (anyone for 25/8) and has drawn favourable comparisons with King Crimson, Porcupine Tree and early Genesis, as well as the likes of Rain Tree Crow and God Speed You Black Emperor. Regards, Tim ---- http://come.to/no-man http://www.no-man.co.uk http://www.burningshed.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 00:45:44 +0100 From: Tim Bowness Subject: Mastica/Henry Fool It's several years since I read Tamm's book, and although it passed the time efficiently enough, my main recollection is of an unending sequence of ho-hum album reviews. But there was one section of the book that I really enjoyed, and that was where Tamm described his experience of the Guitar Craft retreat. Granted, he was a weedy and ineffectual proxy, but that's as close as I'm ever going to get to being in the presence of the master in that sort of context. For a moment there, he really caught the vibe. Mr Tea -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:05:32 -0400 From: Mr Tea Subject: A good word for Tamm >> So it looks as if the collector's club has ceased to exist. I don't see that at all. If everyone out there who isn't a member and has complained about having to pay for releases they didn't want wanders over to the DGM site and orders those discs they DO want, everything should continue just fine. I can understand there not being a huge demand for something like The Nashville Sessions (even though the early glimpses into the ProjeKcts and beyond is fascinating) but other discs, Jacksonville, for example, are easily worth the money. I don't understand Donovan's argument that he would have gotten them all if they had been available through record stores. On my calculator 96 * 1 = 16 * 6. And as for actually buying things in a record store, I rarely do (and consider myself fairly normal ... well, my friends might complain about the noise I call music). Amazon, CDNow, recordheaven.net, etc. etc. as well as Ebay have been a godsend for me. Where else could someone from Podunk, PA get out-of-print import box sets from Italy? Andy P.S. I love Cirkus. PJ Crook's artwork is worth the price alone. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:50:36 -0700 From: "Jennifer Haines" Subject: Re: collector's club and suggestions As of a couple of days ago, it looks like the much-diminished DGM site WILL continue to sell KC and related product. The label is just narrowing its focus, NOT going belly-up, right? I sure hope so 'cause I ordered some CDs 2 weeks ago, right before the restructuring became evident. I'm not that concerned about the money (it wasn't that much) but am really looking forward to hearing this music. Too bad (for both DGM and the signed artists) that the paradigm did not prove sustainable. But hopefully the more streamlined version will continue to function as a distribution channel for KC and related side-porjeKcts. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #970 ********************************