Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #97 Discipline, Number 97 Wednesday, 9 June 1993 Today's Topics: Re: matte kudasai TLev credits Re: string quintet in SF Tony Levin (co-) track more on the Quintet Other Tony Levin Compositions Tony Levin Compositions Quintet In Santa Cruz, CA Sunday All Over the World lyrics wanted Tony Levin on "Plus from Us" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 11:52:08 PDT From: "John M. Relph" Subject: Re: matte kudasai David A. Craig writes: >the honourable mr. relph's informative comments about the definitive >edition "discipline" and its de-fripped matte kudasai lead me to wonder >where the fripped version still appears. is it on compact kc or frame by >frame? is it on the original discipline cd release? elsewhere? As far as I know, it's only on the original Polydor CD release, printed in West Germany, catalog number 800 099-2 (1986 CD reissue). As far as I know, the Compact King Crimson, Frame By Frame, and Heartbeat all have the "original" de-Fripp-ed version. Did the original UK LP have the Fripp-ed version? I believe so. -- John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 14:08:30 -0500 From: nash at chem dot wisc dot edu (John R. Nash) Subject: TLev credits >I think I only know of one other TL-credited piece anywhere, and that's the >King Crimson barbershop thing. Anyone know better? Well, there is "Evensong" by Bruford and Levin, on the Union album. This short track comes from the Bruford/Levin jam on the ABWH tours. While we're speaking of Levin and barbershop, we mustn't forget that Tony led the quartet (and played the tuba) on "Excuse Me" on Gabriel's first album. Hilarious stuff! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "On what moral basis does any scientist defend her or his use of ... public funds for having intense intellectual "fun" studying ... binuclear complexes or whatever when such science has nearly zero coupling to producing anything of value for society?" -Rustum Roy, 1993 John Nash (Who knew grad school was this fun?) nash at chem dot wisc dot edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 12:14:35 PDT From: "John M. Relph" Subject: Re: string quintet in SF Steve Yockey writes: > >1. Fripp was subdued. He handled the Frippertronics, of course, but not >much else. I got the feeling he was there as mentor/teacher/cult leader >more than anything else. For a number of tunes he did nothing but sit and >watch. But Fripp is always subdued! At least, that is, he doesn't get up and boogie (I wish they had played "Intergalactic Boogie Express"). And you'll notice that for a number of tunes the California Guitar Trio did nothing but sit there and watch. Actually, "listen". They were attentive. One of the ideas Fripp has taught as part of the Craft discipline is that of "attention". So how would you like it if all of a sudden your teacher got up off his customary stool and didn't pay attention to what was happening around him? I think it would have been out of character AND out of discipline for Fripp to be more active. In any case, I don't think Fripp was subdued at all. Quiet? Yes. But did you see the gleam in his eye when he looked around the auditorium before they started and again between the encores? He was having some fun, and making mistakes, by the way. I saw a funny interchange (silent of course) between the CGT and Fripp when he started to play a phrase a few beats early. Very funny. >2. There was a lack of original material. A few songs were repeated, with >slightly different arrangements. The Bach stuff was cool, but I prefered >the new original pieces. Lots of Crafty pieces. The ventures stuff was >cute, but they did at least one too many 'cute' songs. A lot of the >material can also be found on the California Guitar Trio CD that can be >purchased at the show. But the original material, esp. the first few >songs, really blew me away. IMO the rest of the show didn't quite live up >to the first few songs. Yes, there was a lot of previously heard material. But I liked the arrangements, especially the baroque pieces, where Fripp & Gunn provided the pedal tones (as noted in an earlier issue of Discipline) and one might say "basso continuo". A giant continuo, larger than Bach had ever seen. I felt like I was inside a giant harpsichord! It was wonderful! I also liked the Crafty pieces, especially "Bicycling to Afghanistan" and I believe "The Moving Force". Considering that in essence this was a collaboration between Fripp, Gunn, and the California Guitar Trio, I thought it was nice that the Trio actually got to play some of their own work. They were not just a Fripp backing band (no matter how much some of the audience wished it were so). I didn't really think much of the Frippertronics pieces. The opening piece was pretty damn good, however, but the second was plagued by technical difficulties (the techs were running around checking connections and such, clicks and pops and non-Fripp distortions were heard), which were corrected within a song or two. Also, I think there were some missed connections up on stage as well, but that's the way it goes. The third was very loud and very painful. I suppose I admire Fripp's ability to generate so much sound (and walk away from it) but musically it lacked. In my opinion, of course. "Sleepwalking", "Walk Don't Run" and the jazzy piece were admittedly a ton of fun, although I thought "Sleepwalking" really made it as a Crafty (read CGT) piece. As far as old material being recycled, I thought the CGT made good use of otherwise unheard of techniques. I mean, how often have you heard the Crafties use a slide? Or an E-bow? Or play an electric Steinberger? Yeah, Fripp plays the Les Paul, but the Crafties were all playing the standard black Ovations. Until now. Great stuff. I also liked Trey Gunn's use of various techniques on the stick. He used E-bow, electric bass string popping, tapping (of course), and loads of volume pedal tricks. His solo seemed a little gratuitous, but it worked in the context of the following baroque piece. >Don't get me wrong though, the show was great! See it at all costs! Amen to that, brother! I thought the show was excellent, one of the best concerts I have seen in a while. The Crafty pieces were excellent. The Frippertronics pieces were good to hear, even if they didn't connect 100%. The baroque pieces kicked my musical bootay. The California Guitar Trio's pieces were quite good. And everything else was great, in one respect or another. Basically, the more I heard, the more I enjoyed it! I think David and Ray can vouch for the huge grin plastered on my face during the entire show. And I am still in awe of the Trio's alternated arpeggio trick in the first baroque piece. (Bach, you say?) Jennie didn't even notice that it was the three CGT players alternating notes until I pointed it out, and then she could hardly believe it. Amazing. And a sound the harpsichord can never make. Buy or die. -- John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1993 16:53:23 -0400 From: "Walter K. Daniel" Subject: Tony Levin (co-) track TL was credited as composer (along with Bill Bruford) of the track "Evensong" on the Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe album. The song is about one minute of bass guitar and electronic percussion. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: cs64sbt at sdcc8 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: more on the Quintet Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 15:56:44 PDT > They were selling a video: The Robert Fripp String Quintet Live in Japan > '92 for $20, which I purchased. This video was constantly being played on the screens at the Belly Up Tavern in San Diego, where I saw the concert. At first I thought the music that was being played in the was the soundtrack to this video but then I realized it was lites-out jazz, which was hardly appropriate to set the mood for a Robert Fripp concert. The implication that Mr. Fripp's music would fit under the category of lites-out jazz was annoying, to say the least. > They were also selling: T-shirts, Decals (discipline style logos), Crafty > tapes, and Ca. Guitar Trio CDs. Bring lots of $$. Damn, I didn't know these items were on sale. I would have at least got a decal for my guitar case :-). My own observation about the show: Every time the audience clamored for an encore, Fripp and Co. would return to stage and play songs that they had played before. I think even the solos were the same! The one exception was the "unplugged" piece. They ended up playing maybe four or five sets that night (the sets that followed the first were basically rehashed pieces of the first set). Although Fripp was as aloof from the audience as I expected, he responded to the applause with warm smiles and almost self-deprecating waves of his hands. I somehow expected him to be of a more dour demeanor. After the CGT's bebop piece, someone shouted "Good job, Robert!", at which he raised an eyebrow. Mr. Gunn, through skillful use of effects and playing technique, functioned a lot more than just a bass player, producing atmospheric sounds and shredding most impressively. I still thought that the military cadet-like behaviour of the Quintet was a bit strange, but I've never been a big fan of mixing choreography and music (like when Peter Gabriel made the great Shankar perform silly dances without his violin). Paolo -- ******************************************************************* If you know you have an unpleasant disposition and dislike people, this is no obstacle to work. J.G. Bennett ******************************************************************* [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 04 Jun 93 23:40:40 EDT From: Joe D'Andrea <76336 dot 1715 at CompuServe dot COM> Subject: Other Tony Levin Compositions In Discipline, Number 96, Toby Howard writes: > I think I only know of one other TL-credited piece anywhere, and that's the > King Crimson barbershop thing. Anyone know better? As a matter of fact... "Evensong" comes to mind. From the Yes release "Union." It was originally supposed to go on the second ABWH album. The song is credited to Tony Levin and Bill Bruford (for Editions EG). For those who haven't heard this track, it is a short, quiet Stick/Percussion duet. That's probably the best way to describe it. Some may argue it's the only gem in an otherwise lame collection of ear candy (I know someone's bound to give me a piece of their mind for that quip, right?). Joe [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 5 Jun 93 18:45 BST From: ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk (Ron Chrisley) Subject: Tony Levin Compositions Tony co-wrote Evensong on Yes's Union album with Bill Bruford. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 5 Jun 93 16:00:24 -0600 From: dalton at isidis dot colorado dot edu (lizard man) Subject: Quintet In Santa Cruz, CA I made a business trip to California a couple weeks ago, which I cleverly timed to coincide with the Grateful Dead concerts. But when I heard (via Discipline) of the Quintet show in Santa Cruz, I cursed myself and found a way to sell my Dead tickets and go see some REAL music. :-) The show has already been reviewed, so I will just add some musings: * My friend who came along said he thought the CGT were all playing Ovation acoustic guitars. * But at one point in the second set, I had closed my eyes, and was losing myself in the music. Then I heard a characteristic, treated Fripp sound, reminescent of "In The Cloud Forest" from the Fripp/ Summers album. I opened my eyes to see how he was doing it, and it WASN'T Robert! It was one of the CGTs, playing EXACTLY in Fripp's signature style! (Was the Ovation plugged into a rack offstage?) * At other times in the show, Trey Gunn played Fripp/Belew elephantosity sounds, much like Fripp solos heard elsewhere. There was some "Sky Saw Guitar" played during the show, but not by Robert. Also, the Crafties and Trey variously performed Disciplined, interlocking guitar parts exactly as Robert used to. What was frightening about this was that Robert has now trained four other pairs of hands to duplicate his signature styles...I really couldn't tell the difference! I remarked to Trey after the show (he was hanging around in the lobby being quite friendly) that Robert no longer needs tape loops! * Trey did a solo on the Stick which could have been straight off of the Discipline album...it combined bass, guitar and Elephantosity. My guitarist friend, who had never seen any of these guys before, leaned over and whispered, "That guy's a _space alien_." * I was somewhat disappointed in Robert for his restraint. He really held back for all but one song. Every now and then he would do a quick, short contribution to show that he hasn't "Lost It," but I wondered. For the most part, he let the Crafties do all the hard work, nodding approvingly at the end of a given section. It was amazing to see these other guys play _exactly_ like Robert (used to); but I really had wanted to see _Robert_ show his stuff...and he didn't. * The Frippertronics pieces, improvised and built solo by Robert on the spot, may have been the high point in terms of seeing him demonstrate one of his own unique talents. While the Crafties (especially the Asian guy..what's his name?) and Trey could pull off the high-speed, interlocking counterpointed rhythms, and one of them (and Trey) could make those characteristic soaring sustained guitar/electronic noises I am so fond of, the only thing Robert seems to have not passed on is the sense required to build these looped pieces. Then again, maybe he just wanted to be the only one doing it onstage. * Finally, my friend and I also had the distinct impression of a Master/ student relationship. The Crafties were like monks, sitting in rapt attention before their Master, while Trey stood in the center, anchoring the stage. It seemed as though Trey had passed all his exams, while the CGT were still in-training. Robert would give subtle encouragements and approvals by simply nodding his head, and was clearly in control of the entire situation. (What else would I expect?) In summary, I would say that it was an excellent concert, with incredible music which could probably be performed by no other ensemble currently in existence. The presence of four people who can emulate Fripp's style so convincingly disturbs me somewhat, however. I know he will not live forever, so maybe he is training his successors. But I guess I will have to wait for the new Crimson album/tour to see whether he can still play like that HIMSELF for more than a few bars.... --lizard man [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Sunday All Over the World lyrics wanted Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1993 18:33:24 -0500 (EDT) From: "R.u S.Hartnett" Hello I was hoping someone out there would have the lyrics to the cd "Sunday All Over the World". If so would you please email them to me. hartnett at macbeth dot ocpt dot ccur dot com thanks in advance RuSH -- ============================================================================ Why should I feel pity when you kill your own and feel no shame? Ooh, when your hordes are gathered and your enemies left to rot You pray with your bloodstained hands at the feet of your pagan gods And you try to place the killer's blade in my hands, You call for justice, distort the truth, Well I've had enough of all your pretty, pretty speeches... -from "Grendel" by Marillion/Fish***R.u S.H. hartnett at macbeth dot ocpt dot ccur dot com*** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Toby Howard Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 17.25 Subject: Tony Levin on "Plus from Us" > Peter Gabriel's new release 'PLUS From Us' has a track by Tony on it, > called 'Lone Bear'. Written by TL, performed by him on stick, 5:39. It's interesting. Lots of overdubbed sticks, with various sound-processing. It even sounds a bit like Frippertronics at one point! The track is very reminiscent of the last Crimson in places, with superimposed rhythms and that interlocking arpeggio sound. The piece sounds like it was recorded in a bit of a hurry. There are (with respect!) mistakes and some of the timing sounds off. Hmm. I don't feel it holds together musically -- it's rather more like a "sketchbook demo thang". Anyone else heard it? Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.