Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #961 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 961 Tuesday, 19 March 2002 Today's Topics: Earthworks line up change Free Pair of NEARfest Tickets Re: turntables Re: Nashville 2001 KC Setlist resource An Instumental Point Re: Mirrors Re: KC's use of whistles and mirrors. KC's use of whistles and mirrors john miller Turntablism & Peter Hammill Turning The Corner The new Giles, Giles, Fripp CD Starless and Childbirth Re: No DJ in KC Re: Turntablism in Crim? NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whistles and Mirrors Re: Mad posts, 7/4 Yes, Re: Turntables ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:12:04 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Marriott Subject: Earthworks line up change Looking on the Earthworks homepage, I've noticed that Patrick Clahar is no longer in the band. Anyone know why he left? He's a fantastic player. His replacement is Tim Garland. Anyone heard any of his stuff? ===== -- Kev "These go to 11" - Nigel Tufnel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:44:08 -0500 From: Gary Davis Subject: Free Pair of NEARfest Tickets Hi, folks: Yes, the header, 'Free Pair of NEARfest Tickets,' was designed to get your attention. But that would really be cruel if I was just making it up. And I'm not that cruel. As it so happens, I do have an extra pair of tickets I won't be able to use. While I could easily recoup my money by selling them, I've decided it would be much more fun to simply GIVE THEM AWAY!!! Yup! I'm going to give them away - FREE!!! Before I get into details, here's a reminder of who will be performing at NEARfest 2002: Steve Hackett (England) Nektar (USA and England) (with Larry Fast, yet!) Caravan (England) echolyn (USA) Isildurs Bane (Sweden) Enchant (USA) Gerard (Japan) Miriodor (Canada) Spaced Out (Canada) La Torre dell'Alchimista (Italy) And let us not forget a special appearance by artist Roger Dean! The total face value of these two orchestra seat tickets, row O, is $170. However, I guarantee you the experience and memories will be priceless! In addition The Artist Shop has an extra room reserved for three nights at the Lafayette Yard Marriott, the closest hotel to the NEARfest venue, that I'll no longer be able to use. Currently this hotel is booked solid for NEARfest weekend! Whoever wins the NEARfest tickets will have the option of taking over this reservation. (And to be clear, when I say 'taking over the reservation,' I mean that should the ticket winner decide he or she wants that reservation, then he or she will be responsible for the cost of the reservation which is at the Special Events rate of $119 + tax per night. In other words, The Artist Shop will not cover the cost of the hotel reservation.) OK, so I've caught your interest. To become eligible to win this pair of tickets you simply need to fill out The Artist Shop's on-line entry form. There are no entry fees and no purchase is necessary to enter this contest. All entries will be subscribed to The Artist Shop's e-mail newsletter, if not already subscribed, and that subscription must be maintained until the results of the random drawing are announced. Once the contest is over, you're free to unsubscribe, but I'm betting you'll find it worthwhile ;-) You must be 18 or older to enter and only one entry per person is allowed. Any questions you may have about NEARfest 2002 itself (when, where, who's playing, etc.) can be answered by visiting their excellent website . So, if you would like a chance to win this pair of tickets, you'll find all the details at . Good luck everyone!!! Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC!!! ************************************************************** Artist Shop Radio Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:55:10 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: turntables >At a Courtney Pine gig a few years ago promoting Modern Day Jazz Stories CP had a DJ on stage as part of the band, and he was soloing in a good >jazz band and holding his own superbly, enough to get plenty of applause from his performance. CP made a point of saying how it really is just >another instrument, just an unusual one in many contexts. A good DJ really *playing* t-ts can be a pleasure to hear and watch: I've seen it >done. of course it is. ive seen many djs perform. ive seen 2 DJs play with Medeski Martin and Wood in a jazz element, and ive seen them with hip hop, and dance music. its absolutely ridiculous to me that anyone on this list would dismiss the turntable as less than a musical instrument and that anyone who is a "turntablist" isnt a real musician. since the late 70s hip hop artists have been doing incredible things with turntables, its part of a whole culture and history of a great music in my opinion , to dismiss it like that is just stupid. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:02:58 -0500 (EST) From: Art Cohen Subject: Re: Nashville 2001 Frank writes : I know it's not out yet BUT...I'm looking for a copy of KCCC #19 - : Nashville 2001. If anyone is willing to part with their copy please : email me privately @ waitingman7 at yahoo dot com . Dude, chill out. I'm sure it will show up on ebay soon enough. --Art PS: You do know that you can buy it from DGM, right? Even if that's the only KCCC disc you want, you could sign up, get the disc and cancel your membership. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:19:44 -0500 From: bruce higgins Subject: KC Setlist resource >From: SoundboardMaster at aol dot com >Subject: Need Set List > >Anybody can help me out? I need an accurate set list for Crimso 12-13-01 >Beacon Theater, NYC. Please e-mail me. Thank you. The best source of KC setlists I've seen is at: http://members.aol.com/kingcrimsonlive/index.htm I'm 95% sure that the 12/13/01 list is there... B__., looking forward to going home with his spanking new Club 19!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:32:18 -0500 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: An Instumental Point In ET #960, Peter Clinch

wrote: > A turntable is a device used to play > records. A CD player is a device used to play CDs. A CD player > is not an instrument, so a turntable isn't one, either. While I am hardly a fan of dj or hip hop music and culture, it strikes me that a trash can isn't an instrument either, it is a trash receptacle. Until you turn it over and start banging on it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:06:47 -0700 (MST) From: checkman Subject: Re: Mirrors "Lassen, James Leo" wrote: > >Also on the video, there seems to be a number of panes of glass around the >drummers. Are these mirrors or some sort of sound proofing device? Drummers use "walls" as echoing devices, so that they can hear themselves. A drummer I once knew played outdoors for the first time and remarked that he couldn't get feedback from his playing. -- Christopher Heckman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:09:51 -0500 From: Michael dot Russell at mercerdelta dot com Subject: Re: KC's use of whistles and mirrors. In ET 960, James Leo Lassen asked : Speaking of mirrors, in the booklet for the gatefold version of Beat, there is a picture of the band from the stage point of view, but if you look above the audience, you see a giant mirror. Did/do they often use mirrors when performing? That picture is a stage shot from The Pier, 12th Avenue and 42nd Street, New York during the Summer of 1982. These were part of an outdoor concert series sponsored by Dr. Pepper. The band faced West, towards the Hudson River, with the audience seated on the Pier facing East. The gigs would begin while it was still light out and the stage lights would come up as the sun set. Curiously, the lights were not hung overhead, but mounted behind the stage, and aimed at the tilted mirror overhead, which then bounced the light onto the band. An unconventional set up, to say the least, done this way perhaps to protect the lighting units and power cables in case of rain. (The festival kept the stage up for several weeks each Summer without breaking down the lighting gear.) Crimso played the pier in '82 and again in '84. The Beat booklet photo is from T. Lev's wonderful ROAD PHOTOS book. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:28:31 -0500 From: Don Cooper Subject: KC's use of whistles and mirrors > On the Live at Tokyo 95 video, Bill Bruford and Pat Mastelotto are often > shown with whistles in their mouths. Did they do this for actually sounds > or just to cue each other? It seems kinda odd, cause I can't even tell if > they use the whistles. I hear whilstles. > Also on the video, there seems to be a number of panes of glass around the > drummers. Are these mirrors or some sort of sound proofing device? Sound proofing. > Speaking of mirrors, in the booklet for the gatefold version of Beat, there > is a picture of the band from the stage point of view, but if you look > above the audience, you see a giant mirror. Did/do they often use mirrors > when performing? That was at The Pier in NYC, which is probably the same stage from Central Park, where the shows had prevouisly been. The lights were in the back, pointing at the mirror. I have a picture of myself on that stage, too, taken when I worked at the Park. Don http://www.cooperaudio.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:43:20 +0000 From: "poldo taylor" Subject: john miller Hey Krimsonites, another question: where I can see on the Net any picture of John Miller-the painter that made soundscapes covers ? Can you help me? Bye to you all .poldo Fai parte anche tu del piu grande servizio di posta elettronica del mondo con MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com/it ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:27:37 EST From: GORTAY at aol dot com Subject: Turntablism & Peter Hammill The recent posts about turntabilism prompted this thought. Turntabilsm is the manipulation of pre-recorded sound. Any King Crimson fan will be very familiar with the concept of manipulating pre-recorded sound because that's what a mellotron does. Takaaki Higuchi says that Peter Hammill isn't really KC related. Sorry to all of you who already know this but Fripp played on a number of Hammill and Van Der Graaf albums. I don't have the albums any more so I can't give a definitive list but he was on either 'Pawn Hearts' or 'H to He' by VDGG and was on Pete's first solo album 'Fools Mate'. The final track on 'Fools Mate', if I remember correctly, ended with one of those sustained notes from Fripp's guitar that, on initial pressings at least, continued endlessly around the run off groove. Gordon Taylor. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:08:02 -0800 (PST) From: rone at ennui dot org (figmentality) Subject: Turning The Corner I can't tell if King Crimson really took off for me due to Peter Sinfield leaving and taking his craptacular lyrics with him, or because Bill Bruford came along to provide new dynamics and stability (heh, that sounds almost contradictory) to the group. Perhaps it's just a combination. I definitely perceive a consistent sense of purpose behind the music starting off with _LTiA_ that wasn't there in previous albums. rone ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:13:58 EST From: SoundboardMaster at aol dot com Subject: The new Giles, Giles, Fripp CD Am I missing something? I went to the DGM site and did not see the G,G & F new CD for sale?! Where can I buy it? I really don't expect to see this in Tower records you know. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:31:11 +1100 From: "Mark Hawling" Subject: Starless and Childbirth A few days ago my wife gave birth to our daughter in an active birth. Afterwards she advised me that somehow she had some KC song in her head and had turned it into a sort of mantra to deal with the pain. I asked her to hum a few bars and it turns out it was "Starless" and she was apparently using both the vocal section and the ominous bass riff section in a sort of hyrid. She was wondering why that had become stuck in her head (as she isn't the biggest KC fan), and it turns out she had heard it through the wall the day before when I was playing the Central Park KCCC cd. I must say I was very impressed with her, and impressed too that KC should be her internal soundtrack at such a demanding time. Cheers Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:43:56 -0600 From: Craig Subject: Re: No DJ in KC >about turntablists playing an important role in modern >popular/avant-garde music Depends on what one finds to be important. "Avant garde music" is never 'popular' until many years (sometimes decades) later, when the Teeming Millions are finally able to come to grips..... >- these guys initiated the concept of sampling in >pop and hip-hop, remember? No, ........trying to forget. I`ll stick w/ the master, Pierre Henry. (He`s *still* going strong, BTW) .............or try John Oswald (his "Plexure" & his "Greyfolded" [linguistic pun,... repeat it over & over, ...... HINT: It`s the name of an enormously popular group],... is marvelous >Personally I think a ProjeKCt with a turntablist >would be an interesting development Yechhh! Horrific idea! Personally I think it would be unconscionable. A sell-out....... I would like to see them augment with a larger number of instruments/players. C NP: Peter Sinfield- "Still" (Actually much, much better than I recalled. Has 2 very nice sort of psych/folk pieces on each side of the LP,......A) "Under the Sky" & "Still" B) A House of Hopes and Dreams & "The Night People",........ & a lovely cover.) The rest is forgettable... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:24:38 -0800 From: Marc J Goodman Subject: Re: Turntablism in Crim? NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In ET #960, D. Chinn wrote: "Personally I think a ProjeKCt with a turntablist would be an interesting development." ...And that will be the day I off my Crimson collection. What I've noticed about turntablists is that they have a very limited wicky wicky pallette of sounds to draw from (that's about the extent of it, actually - wicky on and on and on...) even though I've heard a couple of interesting rhythmic things done on them, and they never know when to stop. I really liked MM & W, but that was before the incorporation of a DJ on their CDs. Now I don't bother. Shame, because they are really excellent at funk and improv, and are a great and very original trio. Without the DJ. I still have my turntables. They play the classics. Marc J Goodman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 03:26:48 EST From: GottaJibbootwo at aol dot com Subject: Whistles and Mirrors In a message dated 3/18/02 1:02:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes: >> Did they do this for actually sounds or just to cue each other? It seems kinda odd, cause I can't even tell if they use the whistles. Also on the video, there seems to be a number of panes of glass around the drummers. Are these mirrors or some sort of sound proofing device? Okay, the whistles really caught my attention at first, but they do actually use them in LTIA pt II most notably. I believe one gets a bit of a whirl during Thrak, but I could be wrong. Also, Pat's got a little doggy squeak toy that he uses in LTIA Pt II (that really entertains me to no end). And the glass panels around the drum sets are kind of sound containment thingys...they trap alot of the sounds in of the kit, and produce waaaaay less leakage (which is oh so helpful live) and also give the drums a more crisp sound, and make the mics a bit more effective in getting an accurate sound. Help I'm hopeful. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 03:28:59 EST From: GottaJibbootwo at aol dot com Subject: Re: Mad posts, 7/4 Yes, >> Apologies for long post, you got to the end if you read it, youre a winner. Well, I read the whole thing, what do I win? (I hope it's something good!) Perhaps a pony? Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 03:30:38 EST From: GottaJibbootwo at aol dot com Subject: Re: Turntables In a message dated 3/18/02 1:02:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes: >I saw someone who used it sporadically (strictly for percussive effects), live w/ Medeski, Martin, & Wood. That *was* great............... That was a fellow by the name of DJ Logic, and he tends to do nifty stuff, annoying or not. Steve ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #961 ********************************