Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #947 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 947 Sunday, 24 February 2002 Today's Topics: NEWS: greatest guitarists/bassists now dead thread Re: greatest musician not best but favorite bassist Tony Levin tour - 'discount' tickets to Coach House Satriani; Miles; Coltrane Favorite bass players Re: Recent Guitar Craft/ect. bassists Beat, Bruford,30th Anni Re: best New JPJ and other yap John Wetton Derby gig ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:54:43 -0000 From: "Toby Howard" Subject: NEWS: greatest guitarists/bassists now dead thread Subject line says it all, folks. No more posts on the topics of greatest guitarists/bassists/bongoists please. Let's move on. Cheers Toby ET Moderator ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:52:09 +0100 From: "claus" Subject: Re: greatest musician hellooo.... i think the greatest musician on earth is probably some indian guy who's been doing nothing but playing the raga, or a poor bulgarian farmer or something like that. somebody we don't even know about. maybe we're really discussing our musical tastes and experiences. c ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:57:03 -0800 (PST) From: Stephen Mahoney Subject: not best but favorite bassist bass guitarists- they always seem to be the unsung heroes jazz: scott lefaro from the bill evans trio steve swallow: from the late '60's era w/larry coryell joe chambers: excellent bowing mingus: ah um! rock: these three introduced me to the concept as bass being a lead instrument in rock: claypool hopper chanelor from caveman hue(and shoe)score ( and store). erik hilden, a local dude! levin laswell new age/fusion/funk god! greg cohen jah wobble funk music for bringing out the importance of the bass as an important sound in music! and of course every excellent cellist! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:08:45 -0800 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Tony Levin tour - 'discount' tickets to Coach House One of the opening bands for the Friday April 12 Tony Levin show in San Juan Capistrano is selling discounted tickets ($5 cheaper). Here are the details, from their website (www.thossound.com): "The show is happening at the Coach House and seating is all general admission. I have discounted tickets I can pass along for $12 each (vs $17 from the box office). If you're interested, please e-mail me at thossounds at aol dot com or give me a call at 760-942-1031 x5." Cheers! Jason ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:41:47 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Satriani; Miles; Coltrane >FYI, the "Time Machine" CD is a great way to get a good sample of the genius material that Satch is capable of. I like this CD quite a bit. God bless Simon Phillips. >Regarding the greatest musician debate, two names - Miles Davis and John Coltrane. Baby sounds like Coltrane, mama sounds like Miles. Mama looks like sunshine when she smiles. - S. np: KC, S&BB scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:54:17 EST From: Inturmoil at aol dot com Subject: Favorite bass players I am one of my favorite bass players. . . .just kidding. Lets start with Geddy Lee. KC and yes should give some of their royalties to Geddy. Why??? Let us begin here. I was a huge Rush fan in Jr High. I read an article with Geddy in it. He mentioned Yes as a huge influence.I immediately went out and bought Fragile. HOOKED. " Where did Bruford go after Yes?", I wondered. Crimson I found out. Been hooked on them since the mid eighties. See the link? Maybe that's why I don't care for the "level 5" crim. The link is gone. I digress. Jeff Berlin is the other bass player. Jason--------- The lone conservative among non-entities ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:46:51 -0800 From: "LAVERNE MUNARI" Subject: Re: Recent Guitar Craft/ect. I just heard from someone who attended the recent "Guitar Craft" event(call it what you will)and they raved about the experience, telling me about some of the wonderful things she took from it. She could'nt quite put into words(& she is a "wordsmith")what she experienced, & while it probably is one of those, "you have to have been there" types of occasions, i'd love to hear what anyone else who attended thought of it? I have a small bit of apprehension in saying this, but I firmly agreed with what Mark Tucker had to say(ET 945)in regards to in essence all musicians being equal. I believe he said, "practitioners of everything are better and worse, to varying degrees than others of their ilk'. Lets get real folks, if anyone is going to put in "their" 2 cents in on the completely subjective subject of "greatest guitarist", then we MUST make comparisions, and no matter WHO you happen to like, OF COURSE many musicians are BETTER than others! Christ, just because you are a musician, automatically puts you on the same footing as every other musician!! What world do you need to be in for that to be true? I know i'm a better musician than many others, BUT in NO WAY would I consider myself as good as thousands, possibly/probably 10's of thousands of other player's out there! I did'nt begin this best guitarist thread, but did immediatley chime in with my own, very subjective thought of "genius guitarists". I just thought; that category could be more fun, & draw more comparisions of guitarists we all know to be "great", than "my guy is better than your guy!" type of waste of time/space. When I brought this thread up, I made sure to mention that i'd only be mentioning a few, because this could then be extrapolated upon by many other ET'er's. Having just agreed w/Mr. Tucker, I must disagree w/his statement of Steve Vai being a musician who falls into the category of, "simply look at me, I can play the guitar" or being a musician with "just technique". I have seen Vai more times than I can count on both hands, & own an extensive amount of his material. IMO, Vai can & DOES play with more or as much soul as many other incredible guitarists that have been mentioned in ET. After talking to people who have played w/him, & themselves are considered to be "great musicians", I know that's how they feel. Just ask Mike Keneally-Billy Sheehan-Terry Bozzio-FZ-Mike Mangini, ect. ect. It's true, the guy can absolutely do astounding things with his equipment, & figuratively "out shred" or use his technique to play circles around the players whom many feel are the best! No matter if one belives these "other's"(names withheld for the fear of offending others, & fear of, or not wanting to deal w/flaming posts)are the top guitarists, soulfully, technique wise, or simply can shred every other player to death. If you'll hear Vai "live", or give listen to many of his other albums/cd's, I believe you'd know he's more than what he can sometimes appear to some, the fastest gun in town! When I listen to, or watch a G-3 tape w/Vai, I can sense & feel his soulfull approach, even tho he's on stage to "put on the most incredible guitar pyrothechnics in the world!". Don't just judge him by "Surfing with the Alien", dig a bit deeper, & if possible see him "live"!! Last thing. I was reading the post by dchetkin(possibly ET 944 or 945)& agreeing w/nearly almost everything he eloquently said, until he said liked Terry Bozzio's drumming, but disliked hearing him play 64th notes on his bass drums, during solo's. He mentioned he had seen Terry w/Jeff Beck a few times, but I would suggest he "try" & hear Terry perform one of his amazing "Solo Drums" performances. You can even buy 2 videotapes of Terry doing so alone, or with the excellent, Chad Wackerman accompanying him on the quite impossible to perform alone(at least by me)"Black Page", who's name derives from the ammount of black musicial notes on a white page. Written many yrs ago by FZ. Since you have been a drummer for over 30 years(like myself)then you MUST have heard the "alien" playing ability of Virgil Donati?!? Here's a guy that can play extended double note patterns, on each foot, whether they been on 2 bass drums, or 1 dbl pedal. I personally can not find another drummer "I FEEL" can match his unique style & technique. I find both Donati & Bozzio play what's right at the right time, and have seen Bozzio many times, & Donati once. Please check them out. Pls excuse the typing of "large blocks" of material, i'll try & do better in the future. Can anyone suggest a few purchases of KCCC material for 1 who has yet to find the extra $ to join? Especially the 71 era band, & the versions of KC w/Wetton. BTW, all responding about the Collectors Club or material w/Vai-Donati or Bozzio that I can help one find pls mail me directly. Thanks. Steven "LaVerne" Munari "There are 40 people in the world, & 5 of them are hamburgers" Captain Beefheart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:09:45 -0600 From: "David R. Suman" Subject: bassists IMO, any list of influential/gifted bass players must include the legendary Jack Casady of Jefferson Airplane/Hot Tuna fame. Casady is a force of nature on his instrument blessed with phenomenal touch and a rhythmic sensiblity unlike any other bassist I've ever heard. Possessing a sound crackling with power and energy, I have always marveled at his ability to mold the shape of his bass lines to drive the music. His use of sustain and facility with accenting the beat presaged the later explorations of Jaco Pastorious in a different musical arena. Tony Levin apparently thinks a lot of his playing based on what I've read at T-Lev's website. DRS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:25:43 -0500 From: "mjbljb" Subject: Beat, Bruford,30th Anni I have to side with the Beat lovers. I like all the 80's disks for different reasons but N&J&M,Heartbeat,Two Hands (which sounds great on just an acoustic guitar),Neurotica etc are some of my favorite moments of this lineup. Someone asked about the worth of the 24bit 30th Anniversary issues. Yes, Yes, Yes! I don't even have an esoteric HiFi (Denon, Genesis etc) but the difference is amazing. In some cases I heard so much instrumentation that escaped my previous issues. On another note I happened to have Fragile and Discipline in my carousel back to back. Listening to the articulation, feel, skill and inventiveness of Mr BB what a monster. np: Midnight Oil - Capricornia (at last!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 00:31:52 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: best >As a recent subscriber the newsletter I find it makes interesting reading. Regarding the greatest musician debate, two names - Miles Davis >and John Coltrane. The music they created seperately and together is some of the most intense available. Anyone interested should check out Bitches >Brew by Miles Davis or A Love Supreme by John Coltrane, both are worthy additions to any collection. i dont think anyone was debating on best musician, what an impossible debate that would be. however, greatest jazz musicians they would certainly be in the top list. I should hope that anyone who listens to any jazz on this list, which i assume a lot of you do, should have bitches brew and a love supreme in their collection already. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:06:56 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Sheridan Subject: New JPJ and other yap Has the new JPJ disc already been discussed? I was one of the folks who was lucky enough to see him open for KC, and having enjoyed his first disc, was very excited for this new one. It IS very good! The song "Hoediddle" kills me, and Fripp is on the first track, in really burning form too. ...Best guitarist! All I know is it's not me, but has anyone spun Billy Cobham's "Spectrum" disc recently, or better yet heard the "Spectrum" songs re-mastered on Bily's new compilation "Rudiments"? MAN, I had forgotten how that session burned. Tommy Bolin in top form. Best? I don't know what is. BUT his playing on that CD slaughters me like little else. Back to new JPJ: go get it!!!! He did preview a number of these tracks on his last tour, right? I recognized a few off the bat. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:29:50 -0000 From: "bott" Subject: John Wetton Derby gig Just to let fellow Crimheads from the Midlands of the good old U of K know that John Wetton and his band will be playing at The Flowerpot (a nice little 200 capacity venue which sells good ale) in Derby on March 9th 2002. This is a welcome return to his home town following an excellent gig in March 2001. If John performs half as well as last time he will still be excellent. Furthermore, for those of you carping on about the lack of vintage Crim in the current line-up set list, you can do no worse than hearing Starless, Easy Money, The Night Watch et al played by John and his powerful band. Be there or be an equalateral triangle! Botty the Derby Crimhead. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #947 ********************************