Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #941 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 941 Saturday, 16 February 2002 Today's Topics: chapman stick The Bears Re: The Bears "Beat" Discipline& "T OfP fair" KC Beat Michael Hedges Guitarist at CGT/Levin shows last year? Re: Favorite Guitarist Greatest Guitarists and Underage Readers (anger!) About Beat Re: Giles interview the great deciever Re: japanese releases greatest bassist Why don't you jut drop in RF and the Question of fave guitar man, Crimson King, Starless Soundscape? Pieces Of The Sun - Tony Levin guitar teams A band to check out Bruford played with "National Health"? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:53:21 -0600 From: DON Subject: chapman stick Hello, Don here. I not sure if this is relevant to this site, do you know anyone who might want to buy a polycarbonate Chapman Stick.Sorry if the subject is inappropriate. Thanks, Don ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:09:38 EST From: ASchulberg at aol dot com Subject: The Bears In a message dated 02/13/2002 1:55:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes: > However, on a related note, my girlfriend bought me a copy of the new Bears > CD for Valentine's Day. I suppose that all hope is not lost. > > Can anyone direct me to a place, physical or electronic, where I can purchase the first two Bears cds? Thanks. Arnie Schulberg aschulberg at charter dot net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:23:48 From: "Spear man" Subject: Re: The Bears >I had to miss this Bears tour, and I missed the last King Crimson tour because U2 was playing here in Kansas City the same night in November. >"We are all deeply shallow people." (Bernard Sumner) ha! Ha! HA! Apt quote for the aforementioned I'd say--just curious how much were your tickets to U2? --spearman admits missing the RFSQ in santa cruz for the grateful dead in mtn view--afternoon show--didn't finish early enuf to make it over the hill--but at least I paid for the RFSQ ticket in support and my friend bought me the japanese RFSQ video that night :) np Rieflin fripp gunn the repercussions of angelic behavior ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:40:01 -0800 From: Luis c Subject: "Beat" Discipline& "T OfP fair" I like a lot KC but i have to admit that KC can`t do again great albuns like the 81-83 trilogy. i know for the people who stop in time arround 1974 it's hard to understand. I know the 1st KC (in the court) album it's one of the best albuns of rock ,but the last albun "The C of light" is the 1st bad KC album. thanks luis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:58:52 EST From: LP1977 at aol dot com Subject: KC Beat In my opinion, Beat is an album to be appreciated more as one cohesive statement. A piece of reoccuring themes and ideas dealing with separation, aleination, and anticipation. The context of the songs in relation to one another is synergistic, much like chapters in a book, and listening to Beat as I type this, I must say, specifically, the way Sartori in Tangier ushers in the beginning rhythms of Waiting Man is utterly fantastic. Personally it is my favorite studio album of theirs, and that may partially be caused by the lack of the "live" feel that its predecessor, Discipline, posesses. Opportunities given by a studio, in certain circumstances, can lend itself well to a piece otherwise limited by performance, begetting the wonderful symbiosis of the live, physically manifested performances of the songs and the studio works that inspire them. Also, it has a great contextual relationship between the other two 80's albums themselves. It completes the dynamic. It's great. I love it. That's it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:35:51 -0700 From: "Moshier, John T" Subject: Michael Hedges Neil Wicker wrote (ET #940) that Michael Hedges died in 1997. What incredibly sad news this was to me. My wife and I saw him live no less than 3 times, and he always put on an incredibly satisfying and entertaining show. We have often wondered why we hadn't heard anything from him recently. At the risk of being morbid, could someone let me know how we happened to lose such a talented musician at such an untimely age? I once read a newspaper preview describing "the guitar ledgerdemain" of Michael Hedges. What an apt description! I have never seen anyone do the things with an acoustic guitar that Hedges did. If anyone is interested in checking out perhaps the most inovative acoustic guitar player in recent history, may I suggest "Live on the Double Planet" as a great starting place. Hedges was undoubtedly one of the"greats." John Moshier. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:09:32 -0500 From: Roy Beardsley Subject: Guitarist at CGT/Levin shows last year? I saw California Guitar Trio last year (or was it 2+ years ago?!?!) at the Bottom Line in NYC with special guest Tony Levin. Great show of course. I'm wondering WHO the guitarist was that opened the show - he's left a lasting impression and I want to search for recordings of his. Thanks in advance to anyone that responds. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:14:16 -0600 From: "Brandon S." Subject: Re: Favorite Guitarist As to my own personal favorites, adding to the usuals that people have posted (Fripp, Belew, McLaughlin, etc), I also believe that Kazumi Watanabe is a great guitarist. I've not heard a whole lot of his work, but what I have was very good. Let's see now....Pat Metheny is great, Django Reinhardt, Al di Meola, Eric Johnson.... Of course, it's all just about the music: as long as the music is good, it doesn't matter if the guitar player only knows two scales and a handful of chords (which seems to be the case in most modern music). Why don't you guys name off some of your favorite all around musicians, not just confining it to the guitar? There are so many to name, though, that making my own little list of 'who is better than everyone else' would be WAAAAY too long, and it's kind of pointless to do such a thing anyhow: like I said, it's all about the music, and the musicians and just the vehicles by which the music is presented to the world. Thanks, Mr. Brandon Stanley ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:28:06 +0000 From: "Cameron Devlin" Subject: Greatest Guitarists and Underage Readers (anger!) Hi.. Ok, have been reading all this talk about Greatest Guitarist ever and thought it would be an opportunity for me to finally do my own top 10 - I'm rating these not on technical prowess, but on their influence on my playing and also their ability to bring music into the world, not notes. These names are in no particular order, but there are 10. Robert Fripp David Torn (Everyman Band/BLUE etc.) John Petrucci (Dream Theater) Al Di Meola (Return To Forever) John McLaughlin (Mahavishnu Orchestra) Richard Leo Johnson David Byrne (Talking Heads) Jonny Greenwood (Radiohead) Steve Wilson (Porcupine Tree) Adrian Belew The way I see it, being called a guitarist is an insult anyway - all the people above are musicians who happen to play the guitar. If Fripp hadn't become a pro on the guitar, he'd have done it another way, because the music trying to appear was far too important (Starless is, in my opinion, the most intense piece of music ever made - fate would not have allowed it to go unheard). Anyway, that's just my opinion. Make of it what you will. Secondly, a recent post has annoyed me - he's certainly not the only person to think this way, but it just happens so much I have to voice my disgust over it... His name is George, and he writes: >>Er, should we split elephant talk in a underage and over 18/21 >>section? >>The near explicit stories of certain posters are hardly fit >>for young >>readers. I HATE this. It's probably the most patronising thing anyone can say. I'm sure he means well, but to think that anyone under the age of 18 doesn't know what sex is, and doesn't use the word "fuck" or whatever else he was talking about being explicit, is foolish. Considering that most people have lost their virginity by 14, this entire issue is madness. Also, to continue, since this is the Internet, no one countries laws can be forced in anything - for example, the legal age in England is 16, so his idea of "over 18" is actually wrong for people in this country, and in most of Europe. In fact, there's a state in America where the legal age is still 14 - I believe it's South Carolina. Anyway, I know that has nothing to do with KC, but... *screams*. By the way, Josette is starting to piss me off. I hope I'm not the only one. Just that why do we need a post about how much she wants to have sex with Trey Gunn? I'm sure Trey appreciates it, but this is a discussion group, not a fantasy chat line. Yeah it's occasionally funny, but it's the sort of thing that should have been given the old "private discussion only please" nod by now. Especially the last post she made. Anyway, this is all just my opinion. Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:56:42 -0800 (PST) From: Jorge Luis Jimenez Subject: About Beat I'm probably one of the few thinking that BEAT is just wonderful, to me it is a perfect album, I love every second of it... weird isn't it? JL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:41:59 +1100 (EST) From: Will Dayble Subject: Re: Giles interview In the interview with Peter Giles, I noticed this: "Robert Fripp felt the same way when he chose the Brondesbury Road recording (with Judy Dyble) for the King Crimson compilation album in 1975." This wouldn't happen to be Judy Dayble (with the a) perchance? I know this is a terribly long shot, but would anyone happen to know anything about this? Cheers - Will. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:31:29 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: the great deciever Hello ETers, I was wondering if ANYONE knew anywhere (other then ebay and half.com) I could get myself a copy of The Great Deciever box set without ordering it from DGM. Its not that i hate DGM or antyhing, i just wanna try to buy it for at least 15 dollars less then what they have on the site, and tis very hard to do that when it is out of print in the USA. it is out of print in the USA right? i just cant afford box sets right now, but I have the whole set on tape, and i just really want it on cd and i want the booklet. So if anyone knows where i could get a MINT or at least near mint copy of the box set other then the obvious ways, please let me know! i figure if i can get any help with this its from you ETers. -Jordan, poor crimson fan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:14:40 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: japanese releases >What kind of deal the rock groups have with the >Japanese market that makes the CDs always come with >bonus tracks? Do the artists have any control over it? someone said they get upset when some of the stuff is released, but how could it offically be released without their permission? these arent bootleg cds there are official label releases. and if these are bonus tracks and new songs, where these songs never meant to be included in the package the artist decides on for the album, or what? why include new songs from recording sessions on japanese cds and not include them on the real versions. i mean who cares about the japanese market, im talking about the artist. i can see live versions or alt. versions, but something so substantial as new songs from that recording session, something some peolpe would spend loads of money for as a collector or music lover, why not include it in the album tahts available everywhere? im just really glad to see a lot of albums being remastered and rereleased in america with bonuses. its the dvd revolution is spreading to cds. people love remastering and bonus features. personally im very very exciting for the rerelease of the Sonic Youth albums Daydream Nation, Goo and Dirty (at least, i think that those are what they are rereleasing).. not taht they are an oldies act that need remastering, but these discs are coming as 2cd sets with unreleased songs, alt versions, etc etc.. all the things you expect from a great rerelease package. ... but sure ill look at CDNOW.COM for them and notice in the Import Section: Daydream Nation (rerelease) Japanese version with 8 bonus songs on top of the bonus songs already there... 39.99. oh well ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:22:48 +0100 From: "claus" Subject: greatest bassist hello hippies! if there would ewver be a discussion about the greatest bassist, I think it would be pretty short: Tony Levin best, Claus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:57:01 +0300 From: "Vladimir Kalnitsky" Subject: Why don't you jut drop in Dear ETers, please, don't ignore my cry from the heart. Once again I ask you to help me with the lyrics of "Why don't you just drop in" (Giles > Giles > Fripp "The Brondesbury Tapes", track #20). My Russian ear don't decipher three pieces, one in each verse. This is what I have: Why don't you just drop in And love the life of sin And ........ inside your cage You are a prisoner of your age Why don't you just drop in And play the game to win The rules you pick and choose They are ........ for you to loose Why don't you just drop in And let the game begin You'll wish ........ to play And live to die another day Vlad P.S. Welcome to my "The Russificated King Crimson" site http://www.indoorgames.hotmail.ru ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:41:46 +0000 From: "lawrence moseley" Subject: RF and the Question of fave guitar man, Crimson King, Starless Soundscape? Hi all, With the guitarist debate still raging I thought I'd mention something from RF. When Robert was asked who his favourite guitarist was, he replied after thinking about that one, that he could not say as a whole range of guitarists may left out of the array. Not verbatim but found on the Unplugged Tapes. What happened to the Steve Hackett guitar led Crimson King revisit? Forgotten? abandoned? in rehearsal? any news? With new releases I tend not to buy them now ( or at least I will wait to see what other manipulations will be made before handing over the hard earned.) Therefore I still have not bought Magnification until a proper version appears, if ever. Record companies....learn.... As the record companies muck about so much with them, extra tracks, replica LP sleeve, no extra tracks, remastered with the sleeve, or not, they may have extra tracks or not...it drives me up the wall. I like my LP/CD art work, it looks good to me. Why do we have to put up with jewel case versions exclusively 9for the most part). Let's have both. Choice. KC did me fine with their re-releases, thanks DGM. Will every other record company be as straightforward? They might even sell more of their products if they were not so unashamedly greedy. They could release a compilation of extra tracks issued to bolster official releases even. Procul Harum and ELP fans would be grateful. Joke from RF. How do you make a guitarist stop playing? Put the sheet music in front of him. Verbatim, from the Unplugged tapes. I rather like Josette's posts incidentally. Reminds me of a song...'Ladies Of the Road'...by someone or other...that was quite explicit... Probably speaks volumes for my need for intense psychotherapy. But such a refreshing change from the earnest young man with beard and glasses, (Fripp-alikes from RED album cover?). I wonder what Trey thinks about being so publicly stalked. One thing I'd love to know about Soundscape arrangements is whether KC songs could be played in this way. Seriously. A Starless (for example)Soundscape would be very interesting. I know they're improvised but I'm fairly sure RF would remember how to play it. That's entertainment. See y'all Lawrence ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:58:18 EST From: TheSwid at aol dot com Subject: Pieces Of The Sun - Tony Levin I just wanted to make sure that all ET members are aware of Tony Levin's new CD (Pieces Of The Sun) & his tour. The CD is available from Amazon at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005Y1JN/qid=1013700476/sr=8-1/ref=sr_ 8_67_1/002-7869446-6839218 or from CDNOW at: http://cdw01.cdnow.com/Click?q=bf-JtifQ8Z-wdLW4Gi5gmZl1oKfOsRR I cannot stop from listening to this CD. I feel that it is a wonderful expression of the kind of music, which we enjoy within ET. You may wish to listen to the clips provided on either Tony's or Amazon's site but if you do buy the CD, you won't be disappointed. My problem is that I can't seem to listen to much else. My guess is that this won't change until his tour passes through here in about 1.5 months. Watch the DEEP BASS as it is tough on your sub-woofer! For tour information, you can go to Tony's web site at: http://www.tonylevin.com/index.shtml Don't miss this concert! Mark Swidler ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:17:57 +0000 From: "CALEB BRADLEY" Subject: guitar teams With this thread of greatest guitarist going on, I thought it may be interesting to look at guitar teams. Of course the greatest tandom guitar work to be seen (in my opinion) is between Fripp and Belew. This is a team that uses the tandom guitar effect to maximum potential. Other favorites of mine: Dave Murray and Adrian Smith from Iron Maiden. It may sound cheezy, but these guys make a STELLAR team. The way they used harmonies and traded solos was incredible. You could ALYAYS tell who was playing what. Both guys have a very distinct sound and approach that just works. Check out anything from Killers, Piece of mind, Powerslave, or somewhere in time to hear classic tandom guitar work.(and Bruce is a POWERHOUSE vocaltst) I'm interested in hearing about other people's views on this. Cheers!! Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:45:59 -0500 From: "Bryan Adams" Subject: A band to check out Hello fellow ETers, I just wanted to bring some attention to a recent band that I've discovered that I thought some Crimson fans would have interest in. Keep in mind though they are hardcore metal, and not for the weak of heart :) They're called Dillinger Escape Plan. Their most recent release "Calculating Infinity" is one of the most technically minded albums I've heard in a long time. Their guitar interplay is absolutely amazing and even feature a very 80s Krimsonesque break down during the song 43% Burnt. Their drummer is also one of the most dexterous around today, and is worth of much note. The songs are very complex with lots of changes, and weird signatures, but they also feature an incredible amount of intensity. Ive had the pleasure of seeing them live, and they pull off every little detail that is on the album. Definitely check them out. Just keep in mind that the vocals / lyrics are spewing forth with fury, and might deter some people. However if you make it past that one layer, youll find an awesomely talented band belting out some challenging, fun (for me anyway), and complex music. Songs to check out: Sugar Coated Sour 43% Burnt *#.. Clip the Apex...Accept Instruction Weekend Sex Change Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:50:21 From: "Peter Drubetskoy" Subject: Bruford played with "National Health"? I heard that Bruford played once with "Nation Health" but haven't been able to find any confirmation for that. Does anybody know anything like that? If he did - was it just an occasion or what? Peter ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #941 ********************************