Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #939 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 939 Monday, 11 February 2002 Today's Topics: Favorite Guitarists The bears? Collectors' Club #19 THIS is the best guitarist Re: What is great? The greatest guitarist .... CENTROZOON: Tour Update + 12" Giveaway Father of Neurotica holdsworth/mclaughlin Nels Cline Japan, why not here? Holdsworth/Frisell Bears in Knoxville:The Matt Hebert Report I'm coming baby.....xoxoxoxo THIS FRIPP How about "Beat"? Voices in Larks' I Coda TOOL and Crimson... Again ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 07:19:55 -0600 From: "Marc Gonzalez" Subject: Favorite Guitarists ET-ers, seeing all the posts on who are the greatest guitarists made me want to offer my 3 favorites: Robert Fripp (no big surprise, huh?) - he is consistently brilliant and shows no sign of slowing down. Allan Holdsworth - unsung guitar hero. He is so original and listening to his playing raises the hairs on the back on my neck every time. David Torn - another truly original guitarist. I never get tired of hearing him play and always look forward to hearing what he will come up with next. Honorable Mention - Mr. Adrian Belew. This guy totally changed the way I now approach the guitar. His solo on The Great Curve (and others) deserve to be in the hall of fame for originality and audacity. All the above have made permanent marks in the music world. I love the fact that all of these guys have a styles that are instantly recognizable, no matter who they are playing with. Keep Elephant Talking, Marc Gonzalez ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 06:28:35 -0800 (PST) From: RS Subject: The bears? They are coming by soon, and I'm try to decide if I should go or not. What do they sound like? Does Belew sing? Does he play his trademark frenetic solos? Is it alot liek his solo material? Any where I can hear some sound samples? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 07:19:04 -0800 (PST) From: Frank P Subject: Collectors' Club #19 Hi all, Looking for a copy of KCCC #19 - Nashville 2001. If anyone is willing to part with their copy please email me privately @ waitingman7 at yahoo dot com Thanks! Frank ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 13:08:00 EST From: Micrael at aol dot com Subject: THIS is the best guitarist Hello Talkers, Before the thread is scissored, I'd like to add my two cents to the greatest guitarist discussion. Some contributors seem to confuse "best" with "favorite," an argument which gets everyone nowhere. I am not a musician so I cannot say who is the best, though I'm fairly confident that Terye Ripdal is better than the guy in Green Day, whoever he is. I'd pay more attention to the opinion of Robert, Adrian or Trey than that of Joe from Kokomo, but I doubt they will weigh in. For anyone who cares, my favorites are Steve Hackett (so emotive and expressive), Steve Howe (favorite live guitarist), Fripp (incredible structure and dexterity), Adrian (fantasticly adventurous) and Trey (see him live!!), Gary Green (so gymnastic!), Pat Metheny (what can be said?), Dickey Betts, Michael Brook, Nels Cline and John McLaughlin. I also love DiMeola, Holdsworth and Hillage. This list is woefully short and leaves many luminaries unmentioned. I love the Dead, but I think Jerry is over-rated as a guitarist, as is Eddie VH, Steve Vai, etc. Certainly these are style preferences, but I know several guitarists with day jobs who can run up and down the neck just as fast and nearly as cleanly. My favorite guitar jam is from the version of "Highway Star" from Ritchie Blackmore on Made in Japan, but nothing makes me whimper like Hackett's work on The Lamb. Of course, every guitarist genuflects before the image of Jimi. Relative unknowns include Bernard Falaise from Miriodor, U. Srinivas (electric mandolin) and Stick player Gary Jibilian from Detroit, who I will probably mention next time I write. Mike np: Korai Oram 2000 ps. The Bears' "Car Caught Fire" is absolutely fantastic! See them live if they come within 250 miles of your town ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 16:01:39 +0100 From: "Mira International" Subject: Re: What is great? The greatest guitarist .... In many interesting contributions I read that one cannot really compare or find out what and who is the greatest in guitarplaying (or in art in general). May I suggest a simple approach to deal with such matters and hopefully extend the discussion? I found it very helpful and easy to use because of the parallel with human life and evolution. We play guitar with our hands, fingers and body. That is the physical level and it expresses in technical abilities, like speed or perfection in time and space. Further we play with our feelings, emotions, our heart and it expresses our ability to create and communicate an atmosphere or mood. This is the next higher level of expression and perfection. We can also play with our mind, which expresses in inventiveness, new ideas and concepts. Again a further level of expression. Then there is one more level that can enter the play and that we can call our soul or our spirit, where everything is embodied together and music can express itself unhampered. All musicians are performing on all the levels at the same time, but they are more specialised in one level than the other. There are guitarists who can technically play everything perfectly, but have less ability to create an atmosphere or mood. There are guitarists who can just do that so well, but are not the best techically speaking. There are guitarists who can create new things in technical aspects, in sound, in melody, in concepts, but may not be able to express it very well or only to the view or ear of a knowledgeable person. Of course, to me the greatest guitarist, artist, is the person who can let you hear the music from its origin. His soul or spirit is able to open itself to the music and let it play through him. A clue is that it is difficult such a thing for an artist with a big ego (that naturally wants to express itself through the music). It can be compare to a poem which comes like a flash of inspiration (without the interference of the poet), a song that is considered amongst the best ever written and took 5 minutes to write, a story that tells itself and takes the writer along. I know of one guitarist who for me qualifies for the highest level of playing. In live footage of Randy California of Spirit (how appropriate) I saw and heard it for the first time. Of course he will not be the only one, but for me he is the greatest. How does Robert Fripp perform on these levels? Certainly extremely well on the first 3 levels, but how on the fourth? Robert van Harten ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 23:23:43 -0000 From: "Lee Fletcher" Subject: CENTROZOON: Tour Update + 12" Giveaway Dear ETers, Here's the latest news from CENTROZOON, which I know will interest many of you due to Markus Reuter's clear Guitar Craft / DGM connections: Regards, Lee - - - - - - - - UK Tour - Update: CENTROZOON are pleased to announce that vocalist Tim Bowness (best known for his role in the seminal band No-Man) will now be joining them for all UK dates. Thus the trio configuration for these public engagements will be: * Markus Reuter: Warr Guitar & Loops * Bernhard Wostheinrich: Sythesizers & Electronic Percussion * Tim Bowness: Vocals Commencing in Durham, the tour will take in Exeter, Norwich, plus a newly added date in Cambridge. Full details follow: Venue: Buddle Arts Centre, Wallsend, Tyne & Wear (www.northtynesidearts.org.uk) Box Office: (0191) 2007132 Venue: Phoenix Arts Centre, Exeter, Devon (www.exeterphoenix.org.uk) Box Office: (01392) 667080 Venue: The Assembly House Centre, Norwich, Norfolk (www.assemblyhousenorwich.co.uk) Box Office: (01603) 660352 / 'Burning Shed' shop @ www.burningshed.com Note: CENTROZOON share the bill with fellow 'Burning Shed' artists: Roger Eno, Tim Bowness, Peter Chilvers and Mark Beazley (of ROTHKO). Venue: CB2 Internet Bistro, Cambridge (www.cb1.com/cb2/) Information: (01223) 508503 / 519719 12" Vinyl Giveaway In celebration of the forthcoming tour CENTROZOON are making available free copies of their 12" vinyl promo: 'Centrophil' to the first 50 claimants. This offer will launch towards the end of February, and interested parties should watch the News page @ www.centrozoon.de for further details shortly... Regards, Lee Fletcher, (CENTROZOON: UK Representative) www.centrozoon.de www.burningshed.com www.din.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Saturday 23rd February 2002 From: "Dale Hoyt" Subject: Father of Neurotica Dear ET, From San Francisco I bring the sad news of the passing of Sam Deitch, 1929-2002. What on earth does he have to do King Crimson? Well, as a publisher in North Beach he named and published the proto-beat journal Neurotica from whence KC got the title of one of its most inspired songs from its "Beat" period. Far flung but worth mentioning, I thought. Dale Hoyt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 23:57:37 From: "Spear man" Subject: holdsworth/mclaughlin aarrgghh, I'm heard the names holdsworth and mclaughlin dropped on this list so many times it almost makes me sick.... then again it is much better than ever seeing tracii guns mentioned here. guess I lived in LA-L- LAnd much too long during the 'do band era--wait what am I talking about?--it still is 'do band country. --spearman np A Blessing of Tears (thank you robert) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:50:29 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Nels Cline >Those looking for a great fairly unknown guitarist, whose style is often in the KC vein (when he shreds balls-out) should check Nels Cline. His Silencer CD (on Enja) is, to me, one of the most important guitar releases of the last two decades and has a wide variety of styles, including killer KC-level fusion. Now I have to own Silencer. You see what you've done! Nels is fabulous on the two Gregg Bendian/Interzone records that I own - I recommend those highly. - S. np: "Bruse hogre llilla a" by Bjorn Jason Lindh scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 01:15:24 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Japan, why not here? I dont understand why other countries always get the extra track cds, with all the bonus features. why are Americans always after the Japanese discs and Japanese never after American discs? i just dont understand it. what makes Japan more worthy a EleKctric on their Level Five then the US? or in UK? and everywhere else Level 5 wasnt with bonus tracks >KING CRIMSON, Level Five, "6 Track CD Inc Dangerous Curves, EleKctric, >Vector Shift ToPlanet Detroit, Virtuous Circle, Level Five & ConstruktionOf >Light - Rel: 20 Mar 2002", CD ALBUM, PCCY-01576, JAPAN (PONY CANYON) >Yep, that's right 2 extra tracks (including ELEKcTRIC!!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 04:00:28 -0800 (PST) From: Lucas Bleicher Subject: Holdsworth/Frisell Craig wrote: > His best work has always been with other bands. > (Bruford, Ponty, Tempest, Soft Machine, ever seen his > performance w/ Softs at the Montreux Jazz Fest? > Whew! ),.... & *especially* his work w/ Tony > Williams. Pick up "Believe it"! But this doesn't mean his solo stuff isn't good. For example: "Panic Station" is the best thing I ever saw in a pop song. As for Frisell, I don't know his stuff yet. What are his best albums? Lucas ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 05:45:55 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hebert Subject: Bears in Knoxville:The Matt Hebert Report Howdy Crims! Saw Ade & his boys Thursday night.Excellent show. I never heard the Bears music before the other night & felt that this is how KC might have sounded had they existed in the late 80's. The Bears are excellent musicians too & they proved it with some great solos. The biggest surprise was when they played RED. But the personal highlight for me was after the show when they came out to sign autographs cos I managed to personally give Adrian Belew a copy of my CD 'CONTROL FREAK'! I'm not expecting to become a rock star out of the deal but he seems like the kind of down to earth guy who would at least give it a fair listen. Anyone who cares to check out the music I gave Adrian can do so by clicking here www.matt-hebert.com All in all a great night! Cheers! -Matt(relentless self promoter) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 19:58:22 EST From: Josette484 at aol dot com Subject: I'm coming baby.....xoxoxoxo Or is it going? To the show in Phila and then to both shows in NY to see Adrian. Who wants to come with me??? xoxoxoxo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 02:19:21 -0500 From: "MALCOLM XERXES" Subject: THIS FRIPP PARLIAMENT OF PACHYDERMS: I am experimenting with a new format of response, and I hope that it is acceptable to you and to any & all moderating personnel. -MX ************************************************************************ As for "best guitarist," that is meaningless. Musicians are not greyhounds or race horses. Jeff McFadden JEFFREY, I understand why you say this, but "THIS (SPIDERFINGERS) FRIPP" does everything on guitar that I would want to do, were I not a practitioner of BATTERIE, and so he is, to my ear, the best that I have ever heard. As well, if one subscribes to the belief that he was/is tone-deaf (which I think a disingenuous claim, on his part), then his ongoing accomplishments are all the more impressive. >Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 20:52:24 -0600 >From: Craig >Subject: Re: Allan Holdsworth >He's got to be one of the most incredible and >influential ever to pick up the instrument (and apparently in >cognito, even among prog-heads). AH has been in so many "prog" bands ....... (U.K. , Igginbottom`s Wrench, Tempest, etc etc,........ see below) He`s quite well known. >He only invented the synth-axe He did *not* invent the Synthaxe, he simply helped with it`s subsequent design/modification. It`s a wretched, sterile sound, IMO, & caused me to lose interest in him. His best work has always been with other bands. (Bruford, Ponty, Tempest, Soft Machine, ever seen his performance w/ Softs at the Montreux Jazz Fest? Whew! ),.... & *especially* his work w/ Tony Williams. Pick up "Believe it"! >He can also span more frets with one hand than should be humanly possible, That`s why he`s called "Spiderhands". 8^D C CRAIG, I have been an admirer of MR. HOLDSWORTH'S work since my sister ANNETTE put me onto UK: UK in 1978 because "that drummer you like is in the band, but I think you'd really like the guitarist, too!" I subsequently purchased LP copies of BRUFORD: FEELS GOOD TO ME, ONE OF A KIND, UK: UK, SOFT MACHINE: BUNDLES, GONG: EXPRESSO II, GAZEUSE!, et cetera, as I also believe that with the exception of the Soundpage in GUITAR PLAYER ("NON-BREWED CONDIMENT"), these are the finest examples of his work, and that I.O.U. is not representative of his capabilities. I have no problem with the SYNTHAXE, whether with its tone, versatility or alleged lack thereof, but my judgement is that of an audient, rather than a guitarist of MR. HOLDSWORTH'S virtuosity, or perhaps, even your own. Many will take issue with this position, arguing that a musician's solo work is the most representative of their skill, craft & art, but my assessment is one based upon my experiences as an audient, "actively listening", and is not an effort to dissuade anyone of their own position on the subject. >Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 15:30:06 -0500 >From: "Louis Sormany" >Subject: Who is the Vicar? Clapton is God! Fripp is the Vicar!!! Louis LOUIS, ERIC CLAPTON SAVE THE QUEEN has a rather odd ring to my ear, but who am I to dictate you which faith to choose? "THIS FRIPP" is Defender Of The Faith, or at the very least, Archbishop of Canterbury! http://www.malcolmxerxes.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 10:45:41 -0500 From: "Judge Rob McMonigal" Subject: How about "Beat"? As I listen to this for only the second time--unusual for a King Crimson CD--it just occurred to me how very Belew-influenced this CD is. That's not a problem for me--I love Ade--but I can see why this CD isn't quite as well received as some of the other Crimson material. It also might explain why none of this material gets re-used nowadays. Although it might be fun to see Pat clobber the drums on something like Neurotica. ;) Anyway, I'm kinda curious what other people think about Beat, since I don't hear it talked about all that often on E-Talk. --RBM-- NP: Beat ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 12:42:05 -0500 From: "myeck waters" Subject: Voices in Larks' I Coda Hiya, I just got an HDCD player which gives me an excuse to work my way through the Anniversary editions again, and once again I bumped into the speaking voices in the code of Larks' Tongues In Aspic part I. The ET FAQ identifies the murmuring at the end as Bruford, Muir and Cross, although it doesn't mention that they are (or at least one of them is) reading the technical specs from a piece of audio equipment (at one point, "from twenty to twenty thousand cycles per second" can be heard). Also, the speaking leading right up the musical climax is identified as coming from a Scottish play, "Gallowglass", which I was able to read online (although the link in the FAQ is wrong: should be http://www2.arts.gla.ac.uk/SESLL/STELLA/STARN/scotplay/GLASS/glass0.htm ) - I love that sort of thing, similar to the bit o' shakespeare in the bg of "I Am The Walrus". It's fun, after many years of listening, to get the actual dialog and read along and hear what's being said. Anyway, there's another bit of dialog in there which has not been identified. Prior to the "Gallowglass" fragment, there's another bit of dialog, which does not appear to be from the same play. It primarily features a sort of weepy-sounding female talking about a place where flowers used to grow, where they would go and pick the flowers and bring them home. Anyone know where that came from? -vaya con queso myeck waters ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:37:14 -0600 (CST) From: Sergio Subject: TOOL and Crimson... Again Hello ETers of the world, The other day I was listening to a radio station through Internet (the station it was from Switzerland, Germany or some other german speaking country) I was listening to some jazz and suddenly they aired a live version of "Red". I was amazed, it seemed like the "Red" version of the "The ConstruKction Of Light" Tour. But, at the end of the song, the guy of the radio said: "That was the legendary (or so, my german is even worse than my english) english progressive rock band, King Crimson, with Tool; that was called 'Red'. Did actually Crimson played WITH Tool. If any of you know something about it, please tell something!!!!!!! By the way, there is a kind of release date for the so-called "Nuovo Metal" album? Sergio Arroyo (Costa Rica) Si despues de todo los hombres no logran conseguir que la historia tenga un significado, siempre deben actuar de manera que sus propias vidas si lo tengan. --Albert Camus Todo lo que quieres saber de Estados Unidos, America Latina y el resto del Mundo. Visita Yahoo! Noticias. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #939 ********************************