Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #938 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 938 Friday, 8 February 2002 Today's Topics: Fripp as guitarist Re: Allan Holdsworth So...I have to take my top off to have a cocktail or 2 with Trey .... A few more "best guitarists" Re: one last guitarist... The Bears Video of band Best Guitar Playes, Best Bass Player,.... Who is the Vicar? great guitarists Vrooom Vrooom Errooor confirmatiooon lotr It's Ralph not Robert Bill Frisell, Elvin Jones and Me! Couple of discs for sale ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 19:30:25 -0800 From: "Jeff McFadden" Subject: Fripp as guitarist What amazes me most about Fripp as a guitarist is his invention and especially his chord voicings. I can usually "hear" chords and know what they are, but Fripp confounds my ear most of the time. His chord voicings are so unexpected that I have problems hearing the different notes in them. (I'm not alone, because the tablature for just about any KC song is ridiculously wrong). He has always tended to blend his guitar volume and chords with the rest of the instruments playing on a given track, and that remains a feature of the overall KC "sound." As for "best guitarist," that is meaningless. Musicians are not greyhounds or race horses. Jeff McFadden ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 20:52:24 -0600 From: Craig Subject: Re: Allan Holdsworth >He's got to be one of the most incredible and >influential ever to pick up the instrument (and apparently in >cognito, even among prog-heads). AH has been in so many "prog" bands ....... (U.K. , Igginbottom`s Wrench, Tempest, etc etc,........ see below) He`s quite well known. >He only invented the synth-axe He did *not* invent the Synthaxe, he simply helped with it`s subsequent design/modification. It`s a wretched, sterile sound, IMO, & caused me to lose interest in him. His best work has always been with other bands. (Bruford, Ponty, Tempest, Soft Machine, ever seen his performance w/ Softs at the Montreux Jazz Fest? Whew! ),.... & *especially* his work w/ Tony Williams. Pick up "Believe it"! >He can also span more frets with one hand than should be humanly possible, That`s why he`s called "Spiderhands". 8^D ~C ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 22:22:59 EST From: Josette484 at aol dot com Subject: So...I have to take my top off to have a cocktail or 2 with Trey .... Oh my! That's really not my style...but,okay, if that's what I have to do...I'll do it! I'll do ANYTHING to be with him! Just to sit at a bar next to him, having a cocktail....I've never been so obsessed with meeting anyone, ever before. I've searched the Internet over and over for information on him, spending hours,trying desperately to figure out what really turns him on, wondering what he wants. I had a stroke of luck on Groupie Central recently... http://www.GroupieCentral.com I read a post on the message board there, written by a lady that was with him last month when he played in LA...she told EVERYTHING! She said that he's into a rather kinky form of submission... that he likes to be tied up. Oh...I felt myself getting flushed as I hastily read on...She described how, after undressing him, she beautifully told, in great detail, how she unbuttoned his shirt with one hand...her other hand was...oh,... while looking steadily into his beautiful eyes, and then, she slowly unzipped his pants... touching her lips to his...oh, I want to..all the while his wrists were bound together over his head with a white Hermes silk scarf....I want to... Well, unfortunately, and to my great dismay, as I read on further I realized that it was TRACII GUNNS, the amazing guitarist from "Guns & Roses" that this bimbo was talking about, NOT Trey Gunn! I had gotten so terribly excited while reading it....and I guess that in my excitement I had somehow over looked the similarity in names. What a drag.... But thanks to all of you,who so painstakingly emailed me all of the details about his recent shows..I know, I could tell that it was difficult for you guys to tell me what I so desperately wanted to know...how he looked, how he moved....what he wore...I thank you all... And, to the idiot who dared to suggest that I may be a man....are you retarded? Watch me on VH1 moron and judge for yourself (www.VH1.com The secret world of Groupies) And, to the anal retentive spelling corrector....get a life hun! And ,to Trey....lets play...xoxoxoxoxo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 20:37:01 -0800 From: "Brian Pearson" Subject: A few more "best guitarists" Well, it's kind of silly & pointless to debate who is the alltime hands-down "best"--the guitar is such a versatile instrument, so many fine musicians have mastered its various technical & expressive capabilities, & different music enthusiasts will inevitably have personal favorites whose styles they most enjoy--but I think it's quite worthwhile to share our recommendations and expand our horizons by investigating music we haven't heard. A number of excellent players have already been mentioned. There is little point mentioning other influential "big names" like Allman, Betts, Boomfield, Clapton, Kaukonen, Knopfler, Krieger, Santana etc. (virtuosi all) since everyone here has heard them & formed an opinion. ETers are of course cognizant of Bill Nelson, Phil Manzanera, Steve Howe, Steve Hackett, Mike Oldfield & all the other "prog" masters. If you know your history you are aware of Django Reinhardt, Charlie Christian, Chet Atkins, Merle Travis, Les Paul, Rev. Gary Davis, Blind Blake, Andre Segovia, the Romeros, etc. But if you liked Jimi Hendrix & wonder how his style might have evolved had he lived, check out anything by Sonny Sharrock or James Blood Ulmer for some of the BLACKEST avant-funk around. If you like jazzy, bluesy Southern rock, check out Warren Haynes solo, w/ Allman Bros., or w/ his own Govt. Mule. If you like Dead-influenced psych-rock, Steve Kimmock (Zero, Phil Lesh & Friends) is your man. So is Jeff Matson w/ the Zen Tricksters. Richard Thompson has been around as long as RF, & remains just as obscure outside of his fanatical cult following, but is a player with superb execution, subtlety & taste, & a masterful songwriter to boot. A lot of great players remained in the background behind featured vocalists, but their supporting lines made good songs great. Think Tim Renwick (Al Stewart), Jeff Baxter (Steely Dan), Mick Taylor (Stones, during their peak period), David Lindley (Jackson Browne), Steve Hunter (Lou Reed & many others), & countless other REALLY good session players. These guys may have lacked the charisma or egotism to cut it as frontline solo guitar heroes, but (like good supporting actors in a play) had the technique & professionalism to make the "stars" shine brighter & raise the whole production several notches. So this has gotten a bit long & needs to wind down. Haven't even touched upon all the great ACOUSTIC guitarists (jazz/ classical/ folk/ blues) worth hearing--maybe later. There's a huge world of worthwhile, interesting, intelligent music out there to broaden our horizons. Enjoy. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 04:47:48 -0800 (PST) From: Wally David Subject: Re: one last guitarist... Steve Arnold wrote: >Among all the great names thrown around this and >related threads, the only one I was truly surprised >*not* to see was Allan Holdsworth....Snipped Hi all, I wanted to chime in here. I had the pleasure of seeing Allan at a very small club in Rochester, NY in the mid 80's. I also got meet him that night before the show. I was there early, to have dinner first. I looked up and who do I see walking through the front door but Allan! I approached him and said, "Hello Mr. Holdsworth." He immediately thrust his hand out and replied, "Call me Allan, and your name is?" He was so down to earth it was great. He bought me a beer and proceeded to sit with me and talk music for about 15 minutes. He followed that up with a killer show that night, including a salute and point to my table from on stage. I have not had the pleasure of meeting any of the other musicians mentioned, but Allan has to be right up there musically, and I'm sure, as a nice person. Peace Wally ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:54:20 -0500 From: "Robert Bennett" Subject: The Bears Saw The Bears in Ferndale, Michigan, 2/1 and the show was a lot of fun. I forgot how good that band was/is. They played Crimson's "Red" too as an added bonus (and nailed it). Belew was in great form and looked to be having a lot of fun. The venue was sold-out and the show was filmed by the band (I need to see if copies are or will be available for sale). Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:06:08 -0500 From: "Robert Bennett" Subject: Video of band Hello folks: Is there any movement afoot to transfer video footage of the Crimson to VCD?? I have a friend who is very involved in the Paper Late Genesis site and they are already sending around VCD (Video CD) copies of early Genesis concerts that where before only available on VHS. I've seen three VCDs so far and they are incredible to say the least (of course they are only as good as the source tape, but the quality never gets worse). This is something, I would think, this group would get behind, as opposed to debating who the best guitarist is and such. Bob Bennett ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:08:42 -0300 (ART) From: Ronald Miklos Subject: Best Guitar Playes, Best Bass Player,.... Hi We can say someone belongs to a group than can be called, for example, "the best guitar players", or "the best bass player", which does not mean the performer is the best composer, but only he is one of the best performers of the instrument. We have lots of excellent instrument players working in orchestras, or even playing in cover bands, which does not mean the guy is a musician, but just a mechanical player. We can appreciatte music which is brilliantly composed, without needing specific instrument expertise. The specific analisys belongs exclusively to the listener. By no means I am saying the discussion is worthless, just that it is endless because all of us may have different opinions. Ronald Vogel (Brazil) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 15:30:06 -0500 From: "Louis Sormany" Subject: Who is the Vicar? Clapton is God! Fripp is the Vicar!!! Louis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:03:56 EST From: Epileper at aol dot com Subject: great guitarists This is my first time posting, as I wanted to get a lick in (no pun intended) before the greatest guitarists thread gets cut. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the excellent Japanese guitarist Keiji Haino. While some may dismiss his music as mere caterwauling noise, many avant garde circles consider him to be one of the finest living guitarists. He has tons of solo material out, as well as a vast catalog featuring his power trio, Fushitsusha. This is tremendously dark, heavy psychedelia for the most part, yet there are also moments of disarmingly fragile beauty. The guitar playing is very emotional, and usually VERY LOUD. He has worked as well with John Zorn, Painkiller and Peter Brotzmann among others. This stuff is definitely not for everyone, but for those of you who are attracted to the more "difficult" music, Keiji Haino delivers the goods in a way absolutely no one else does. Just to let you all know. Cheers, Greg Davis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 17:23:50 -0500 From: "Carlos Pacheco" Subject: Vrooom Vrooom Errooor confirmatiooon Hi crims I bought the same excellent CD( for cdnow), first thing that I did it was listen this track, maybe I'll have the same error, but good luck for me...my copy don't have mistakes. Bye ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 22:29:17 -0000 From: "Woody" Subject: lotr i thought the dwarf looked like the mad professor from 'sliders' > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 13:28:06 EST > From: RAnder3567 at aol dot com > Subject: Re: Look-alikes > From: "Charlie Yarwood" > Subject: Look-alikes > > Pardon my straying from the subject at hand, but: > Kev Wrote: > > > What I thought was really strange was the fact that > > Frodo Baggins looked just like Jon Anderson in the > > 70s, and Elrond looked like Steve Howe from the late > > 80s. > > There's another good lookalike there. It was either Merry or Pippin, > forgot which, that looked just like Jimmy Page from the '60s. :-) > > C Yarwood > I thought the Dwarf looked like Lemmy from Motorhead. Robert Woody Osmosis Productions **************************************************************************** *** http://members.fortunecity.com/woodyosmosis/woodystradepage/ **************************************************************************** *** The Past, The Present And The Future All Co-exist At The Same Point In Time --- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 16:40:31 -0800 From: "Mark Tucker" Subject: It's Ralph not Robert Steve Mahoney: It's 'Ralph' Towner, not 'Robert'. Saw him with Oregon several times (once at UCLA, with Gary Burton, who had the then-unknown Pat Metheny playing for him), once with Abercrombie (ca. Sargasso Sea) and once solo at McCabe's. Was jaw-dropping every time. However, his latest output is somewhat disappointing comparatively. To my mind, he was poised to be a sort of cross-genre Segovia but never went over the necessary mark to achieve it. Too bad, but still one of the zeniths in guitar players. Listening to him and his unique approach promotes the curiosity as to what Fripp would accomplish acoustically, if he put his mind to wringing out of the unamplifiied instrument what he obtains from it electronically/electrically. Certainly, both are equally exploratory in nature, not to mention superbly accomplished, merely in different ways. That, of course, elicits the thought that it's past time Robert released an acoustic CD (and I dont mean with the Crafties, but solo or with acoustic bass, simple drums backing), to put him more solidly in with the magnificent work of guys like McLaughlin and such. In general: Those looking for a great fairly unknown guitarist, whose style is often in the KC vein (when he shreds balls-out) should check Nels Cline. His Silencer CD (on Enja) is, to me, one of the most important guitar releases of the last two decades and has a wide variety of styles, including killer KC-level fusion. Saw him open for Brand X in West L.A. and couldn't believe what I was hearing. Additionally, his bass player, Bob Mair, was not only hotter than a pistol but made the most unusual use of pedals I've ever seen in a bass player, occasionally even playing the pan-potted ones like they were synths. With John Goodsall and Percy Jones to compete with, they pulled out all the stops and floored the audience. Nels releases solo and in group context, frequently not up to Silencer's quality, and one should particularly beware his group Bloc, but the guy's done soundtracks and guest spots and is one of the country's great unheralded musicians, only slowly and haltingly getting recognition. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 23:44:47 -0500 From: "Joseph A. Popp" Subject: Bill Frisell, Elvin Jones and Me! Since we're citing specific unbelievable Frisell albums, The newest one has the rhythm section of the gods... Dave Holland on bass and Elvin Jones on drums. Elvin was John Coltrane's drummer. He and Dave both are legends. I bet it was like a dream for Bill to have them working with him. Another two "desert isle" albums featuring Bill are John Zorn's "naked city" (the one with the Weegee cover) (with Fred Frith on BASS!!!) and Hal Wilmer's Weird Nightmare, Meditations on Mingus (holy #@%*!!!). These last two albums contain some of the best music on earth! Glad to hear you all chattering about Bill. He's right up there with Bob. And Adrian. Heard Joe Morris??? Oh, man! Get "A Cloud of Black Birds". "Tone is more important than volume." Joe Popp p.s. see my insane band "3bakBeast" in Erie PA at the Erie Art Museum Annex on Feb 17th. First gig in more than a year. We are psyched!!! Rick Lopez on skins and Ken Cornelius on Fender Bass. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:48:45 -0800 From: Kevin Cheli-Colando Subject: Couple of discs for sale Hi all, After another round of purges, I have these two sets for sale ProjeKct 2--Space Groove (2CD)--DGM King Crimson--The Nightwatch (2CD)--DGM Both are in mint condition and will set you back $11 per set. Postage is $2 in the US (if you want both, its still just $2 for the two sets). Thanks kevin ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #938 ********************************