Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #931 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 931 Saturday, 19 January 2002 Today's Topics: NEWS: The Bears US Tour Re: Peter Gabriel 1-4 deja vrooom dvd problems Re: Peter Gabriel 1-4 Peter Gabriel Sid's Book Re: Greatest guitarist = Fripp Re: Peter Gabriel 1-4 Re: Peter Gabriel 1-4 ET Bits and bobs Re: Fripp couldn't be the greatest guitarist greatest of all time Andy McCullough Trivia cd for sale Lord Of The Rings/Yes KC Book and Damage cat food time signature Top five of 2001 and another suggested list and drummers Sid's 'other' book ?! Kunio Sumas Midis Birdman theme on Club 18 (Detroit '71) ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:31:13 -0600 From: "Rob Murphree" Subject: NEWS: The Bears US Tour The Bears' Car Caught Fire Tour 2002 THE BEARS are: Adrian Belew: guitar, voice Rob Fetters: guitar, voice Chris Arduser: guitar, drums, voice Bob Nyswonger: bass DATE VENUE CITY/STATE Jan 30 Canal Street Dayton, OH Jan 31 Club Cafe Pittsburgh, PA Feb 01 Magic Bag Ferndale, MI Feb 02 Martyr's Chicago, IL Feb 07 Blue Cats Knoxville, TN Feb 08 Music Zone Asheville, NC Feb 09 Variety Playhouse Atlanta, GA Feb 10 12th & Porter Nashville, TN Feb 14 Lynagh's Lexington, KY Feb 15 Phoenix Hill Louisville, KY Feb 16 Southgate House Cincinnati, OH Feb 17 Beachland Cleveland, OH Feb 19 Middle East Boston, MA Feb 20 Higher Ground Burlington, VT Feb 22 North Star Philadelphia, PA Feb 23-24 Mercury Lounge New York, NY Don't miss this tour! Rob Murphree rob at murple dot com The Official Bears Site http://www.thebearsmusic.com The Adrian Belew Official Web Site http://www.adrianbelew.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:49:42 EST From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com Subject: Re: Peter Gabriel 1-4 Markus Gnad wrote: >from recent entries on the DGM Guestbook I read that Peter Gabriel's 4th >album (the one with "San Jacinto" et all) is called "Security". Can >somebody please tell me > >a) the secret names of the other three no-name albums, >b) the origins of the secret name(s)? The American release of PG4 was given a "real" title at the insistence of the record company. The title _Security_ did not appear anywhere on the cover, only on a sticker affixed to the album's shrinkwrap. (I don't remember whether it was also on the LP's label.) The other albums do not have "secret" names, though some fans refer to them by informal nicknames like "Rainy Windshield" and "Melting Face." Your pal, Biffy the Elephant Shrew http://www.mp3.com/michaelpdawson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 16:30:31 +0100 From: cosmos1 at wanadoo dot nl Subject: deja vrooom dvd problems received this week the dvd which is recorded in ntsc format. so when i play it on my standalone dvd player (sony DAV-S500) it shows/plays on my television in black & white. as i live in netherlands our system is PAL. is there a way to change this so i can watch this dvd in colour ? any help or advice appreciated. thanks andre ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:09:25 -0600 From: "Lee Gray" Subject: Re: Peter Gabriel 1-4 > from recent entries on the DGM Guestbook I read that Peter Gabriel's 4th > album (the one with "San Jacinto" et all) is called "Security". Can > somebody please tell me > > a) the secret names of the other three no-name albums, > b) the origins of the secret name(s)? I've always heard that "Security" was only given a title by the label because of commercial pressure after it became successful (via a sticker on the sleeve). My CD copy has the title on the spine, but I'm pretty sure my original LP (long gone) did not. Maybe someone here can confirm. I've never heard of titles for the other three albums. Gabriel said the lack of titles was intended make them like issues of a magazine. Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:12:27 -0600 From: "Joe Funk" Subject: Peter Gabriel >from recent entries on the DGM Guestbook I read that Peter Gabriel's 4th >album (the one with "San Jacinto" et all) is called "Security". Can >somebody please tell me >a) the secret names of the other three no-name albums, >b) the origins of the secret name(s)? >Markus Actually , "Security" was released by Charisma records in Europe as just plain "Peter Gabriel", as were his first three, but Geffen records in the U.S. decided to call it "Security", and placed a "Security" sticker on the outside of the original LP. I have a copy of the original, where the name "Security" was not printed on the original sleeve. I don't know of any secret names, other than "Melting Face" for PG III.. I read somewhere that PG wanted his first recordings to be self titled, as if they were volumes of a musical periodical. Jomama Check out 3 tunes from our new CD at: http://www.ampcast.com/twosheds Two Sheds Website: http://www.angelfire.com/art/twosheds/twosheds.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 12:36:21 EST From: CWDGA at aol dot com Subject: Sid's Book > As for the Sid Smith book, well, what can I say? It's just excellent. > I read it in less than 2 days, and since then have been re-reading the > track-by-track album run-downs while listening to the albums themselves. > My only complaint is the photos -- there's lots of them, but they are > rather small and poorly-reproduced for the most part. A shame Helter > Skelter couldn't have gone the extra mile here. In this age of digital > reproduction there seems to be little excuse for poor-quality photos in > a book. But this is a small gripe really. Well doen Sid, I say! We > are all grateful for your persevereance I'm sure. > David Maclennan Hi David, Just a couple of things regarding your small gripe which takes up most of your otherwise kind posting: The photos were in fact scanned (high-res), enhanced and sized by myself. With most of them being very old and of varying degrees of quality (and many taken from press clippings) we could only do so much cleaning up without going back in time with an expensive digital camera and taking them all again. I have a few copies of the book acquired from various sources and there are however some subtle differences in print quality between the various copies. Deadline and budget constraints should also be taken into account. But isn't it better to show them than not at all? Take the pic of Barry Godber on (appropriately) page 69 for example - terrible quality but what a pic! Now regarding the size: I think we did very well in shoehorning the many rare pics, all of the text and all of the various appendices into a book which was done to a predetermined amount of pages. So yes, we are in an "age of digital reproduction"; an ideal world no. I'm off to the pub - come on I'll buy you a pint... Chris 'Shoehorn' Wilson CWDGA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 06:07:24 -0700 From: "Progfreaks.com Info" Subject: Re: Greatest guitarist = Fripp Although I think Fripp is quite a crafty (no pun intended) guitarist, I don't think I'd even consider him to be close to the best guitarist position....There's quite a bunch of guitarists out there who in my opinion are/were better guitarists or just revolutionized the whole damn thing, like Hendrix, McLaughlin, Metheny, Vai, etc..... Although recently I've been listening to Ron Jarzombek a lot...for those not into metal, Jarzombek is the guitarist for Watchtower, a great prog metal act that was cursed with the worst vocals ever known to man, and for Spastic Ink. The first Spastic Ink albums is entirely instrumental (bless God) and just blew my brains out; it's really cool music... Marcelo Silveyra Progfreaks.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:14:33 -0500 From: "Craig J. Clark" Subject: Re: Peter Gabriel 1-4 I apologize if I'm just one of many to respond to this, but I know the answer so I'm responding. Markus Gnad wrote: > from recent entries on the DGM Guestbook I read that Peter Gabriel's 4th > album (the one with "San Jacinto" et all) is called "Security". Can > somebody please tell me > > a) the secret names of the other three no-name albums, > b) the origins of the secret name(s)? The "secret" names are as follows: Peter Gabriel I (1977) - Car Peter Gabriel II (1978) - Scratch Peter Gabriel III (1980) - Melt They, naturally, correspond to what is on their respective album covers. As for "Security," it is a name that was affixed to IV by Gabriel's American label, Geffen. It doesn't appear on the album cover -- or on the spine, but was rather on a sticker that was added to the cover after it was wrapped in plastic. The name also appears on the label on the actual record. Since then, all other formats -- cassette, CD -- have gone by the name "Security." As for the origin of the secret names, in college I had a poster of all of Peter Gabriel's album covers up to "So." Across the bottom of the poster, the names were listed like this: CarScratchMelt?Plays LiveBirdySo So, in a way, the real "secret name" of "Security" is "?". -- Craig J. Clark "I believe -- so strongly -- in mayonnaise." cjclark at earthlink dot net --Elmo Oxygen, http://home.earthlink.net/~cjclark denizen of Schizopolis ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:53:05 -0500 From: Michel Drolet Subject: Re: Peter Gabriel 1-4 > Markus Gnad wrote: > > Dudes, > > from recent entries on the DGM Guestbook I read that Peter Gabriel's 4th > album (the one with "San Jacinto" et all) is called "Security". Can > somebody please tell me > > a) the secret names of the other three no-name albums, > b) the origins of the secret name(s)? > > Thanks, > Markus As I recall reading at the time of the release, the 4th album has a name in North America only just because the record company feared that since the previous 3 albums had no names it may be confusing for buyers (how do you order the correct album with no name when there is three others already??), so they decided the 4th needed a name. The name "Security" refer to the picture on the cover: it's the face of somebody taken from a security camera; the image was distorted for the cover! I remember when I bought the album the day of release, there was a sticker on the cover mentioning the title, the title was nowhere else to be seen, so I suppose it was a last minute decision! The other three don't have any names they're just refered to as the "car", "scratching" (if I remember correctly) and "melting face"! In fact, Us and So were supposed to be without names too but since a trend was started with Security, Peter decided to add names but only two letter words!! That's what I read somewhere anyway, if somebody has other explanations, please post! bye Michel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:15:14 -0000 From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: ET Bits and bobs Mr Stanley wrote > That reminds me, no cd's that are made by Discipline Global Mobile work > on my Sony car stereo. It just scans for a minute, and then says > 'error'. Pretty weird, huh? However, they work just fine on an older > stereo I have at home, an inexpensive one from Wal-Mart. I have plenty > of other cd's besides King Crimson to listen to when i'm out somewhere > anyways.... Some CD players just won't play any CDs with with data tracks and a lot of DGM releases have electronic catalogues. Markus asked > from recent entries on the DGM Guestbook I read that Peter Gabriel's 4th > album (the one with "San Jacinto" et all) is called "Security". Can > somebody please tell me > > a) the secret names of the other three no-name albums, > b) the origins of the secret name(s)? > The 4th PG album was renamed "Security" by his then new North American label Geffen who throught having som many albums called the same a bloody silly idea- especially when the previous albums were on two different N. American labels. Somebody mentioned the German language versions of 3 and 4- these have been available in Europe on CD before- I couldn't honesty tell you if they are in still in print or be re-mastered with the rest of catalog. Still waiting for Level 5 to arrive... Andrew Jones ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:35:24 EST From: NCir213855 at aol dot com Subject: Re: Fripp couldn't be the greatest guitarist ......simply because he doesn't really showcase himself on recordings. King Crimson has always been a group effort. Each member does their extraordinary thing that creates those fantastic compositions. Fripp's contributions are soundscapes and short solos. (Whoa, what about Fracture, Red, ...?) Yes, yes the early stuff shows Fripps taking center stage for solos and theme generations. But what has he done lately to earn "greatest guitarist" status? His soundscapes and Frippertronic albums, while astonishing works in themselves, are nothing more than Fripp's "best way of making a lot of noise with one guitar". (Quote from 1999 CD) Heck, when I was 16, using one microphone, a cheap car reverb unit and a tape recorder, I ceated a 25 minute "feedback" composition that was pretty far out (I'm talking 1972 here). But really, the closest you can get to Fripp stepping out and playing some rock and roll is found on the live League of Gentlemen CD. Thrang Thrang Golzimbol (sorry 'bout the spelling) versions 2 and 3 show some real hot guitar stuff. But that's all I can come up with. Many years ago in an interview on MTV, Fripp said he would like to do a speed metal album. I'd love to see it happen, but taking King Crimson farther along the evolutionary road is Fripp's mission. And we all agree it has been all good. But Fripp as greatest guitarist? He would have to do a Joe Satriani-like album to get me to start thinking in that direction. (Maybe he should record that Paganini piece Greg Lake said that only Fripp can play?) >From the ruffler of feathers --------- Nick Ciraulo PS--- You know what happens when you mention King Crimson to anyone in Albuquerque, New Mexico, who knows about them? The say "Oh yeah, Greg Lake was super on that album." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:15:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Wills James Subject: greatest of all time >Just out of curiosity, does anyone here think Mr. Fripp is -THE- >greatest guitarist of all time? If not him, who? I have a few favorites, >but as far as GREATEST goes...I dunno...Fripp? I don't know if he's the greatest guitarist of all time - and I'm not sure how you could pick just one, but I would say he is without a doubt "the greatest Robert Fripp of all time" . . . Depending on what you mean by "greatest" it's pretty possible that the greatest guitarist of all time never made a bean playing music and never recorded him/herself playing. You could make a long list of "elite original guitar stylists" - people who brought new ideas to the "how to play rock guitar" table and for my money Fripp would be on the list, but list-making threads are really boring IMO. Still, there's always the scroll bar . . . James ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:00:36 +0000 (GMT) From: My Brane Hurts Subject: Andy McCullough Trivia >Subject: Drummers . . . yeah! >In all this recent talk of drummers (which i love by >the way!) I have >been >surprised that a few have not been mentioned. >Andy McCullough - who garnered criticism in this >forum last year but >who i >think is incendiary on 'Lizard' Hi ET Persons..... Some trivia on Andy McCullough is that I ran accross him in about 1978 where he was working in the downstairs front room of a terraced house in north London making flight cases at a company called Bulldog Cases. At the time I was working for a PA company called Soundwave that later evolved into Trace Elliot. We used to buy cases for mixers etc from Bulldog and I chatted with Andy a couple of times when I went to pick up orders about what it was like working with RF. As far as I can remember he said something in the order of "Fripp was a hard man to please". Andy was only on Lizard so I suppose that means that he didn't please RF quite enough but I've always thought his drumming was excellent. Take another listen to 'Indoor Games' to remind yourself what he could do... Cheers Andy Perry Perth, Western Australia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:29:31 -0500 From: "Mark Lach" Subject: cd for sale I've got 110 CD's of KING CRIMSON, BRIAN ENO, DAVID SYLVIAN , ADRIAN BELEW, CALIFORNIA GUITAR TRIO e.t.c. for sale. All original no copies or bootlegs. Please e mail me for detailed list. Would like to sell them all at $ 3 piece. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:48:04 -0000 From: "Nicholas WHITTAKER" Subject: Lord Of The Rings/Yes I take it many of you have seen the brilliant Lord Of The Rings film. I thought it was amazing - 10 on 10 Lynn! It did have certain similarities though to a Yes gig in that: 1. It was too long; 2. Everyone had long hair & wore a cape; 3. It was difficult to understand many of the words but when you did understand it just seemed like elves & goblins were all that was being talked about. Nick Whittaker np: MARILLION, 'Misplaced Childhood' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:57:14 -0500 From: "Richard G. Bunker, Jr." Subject: KC Book and Damage Hi All, After reading that the new book "In the Court of King Crimson" was a) sold out already, and b) not yet available in the US, I browsed to www.amazon.co.uk and not only ordered a copy of the book (which they said would be dispatched within 24 hours) (airmail shipping to the us was about #5 -- not too bad), but as I was checking out, they recommended that I pick up a copy of the Sylvian/Fripp "Damage" CD. I have had "Damage" for quite some time (it is good), but remember quite a few messages on ET from people having trouble finding it. So, for those who want the book, or a Damage CD, and have had trouble finding one or both, take a look at www.amazon.co.uk. I hope this isn't all very old news. Rick. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:03:58 -0600 From: Kathy Kral Subject: cat food time signature Can someone knowledgeable on the technical aspects of KC's music, tell me how the time signatures go for the verses of Cat Food? I'm listening to the short version on YPGKC album. I have tried scoring the repeating phrase in a number of ways: as bar of 4/4 + bar of 3/8 + second bar of 4/4 or alternatively, as one long bar of 11/8 followed by bar of 8/8. Am not really satisfied that either of these nails it. Would appreciate any knowledgeable help, as this example may become part of a publication I'm working on in rhythm. Thanks Jim Cockerill Riverboat Music USA. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:54:02 -0500 From: "Beth El" Subject: Top five of 2001 and another suggested list and drummers Howdy, Thought I'd send in my list of favorites for the past year: 1) Jah Wobble and Deep Space - Largely Live in Hartlepool and Manchester. Jah Wobble is a worldbeat bass master. This one is a double album, largely Celtic and northern African sounding, as is much of his work. 2) Daevid Allen's University of Errors 2. Psychedelia from the founder of Soft Machine and Gong. A wise man with a sense of humor. 3) Spiritualized - Let It Come Down. I often describe this group as Pink Floyd with Gospel lyrics. The music on this one is not really Pink Floyd like, but this is always the feel I get from his albums (it's really one guy with help). 4) Masters of Reality - Welcome to the Western Lodge. Modern Blues still showing the influence of past member Ginger Baker. 5) Russell Mills - Pearl and Umbra. I think this album is older, but I couldn't find a date on it so I am including it. This album features contributions by Peter Gabriel, Harold Budd, Eno, David Sylvain and Robin Guthrie. Mills is apparently known for his album artwork, but this album is truly remarkable including a cover of Sid Barrett's "Golden Hair." This leads me to drummers... I don't like anyone better than Ginger Baker. He seems to have returned to his jazz roots in the past years, but his Horses and Trees and Middle Passages albums stand alone for me for albums by drummers. Also really essential amongst often missed albums is Masters of Reality Sunrise on the Suffer Bus which Ginger plays on. This album in nearly universally loved by everyone I play it for, no matter what their usual tastes. Lastly, I thought I'd suggest another list. Given that many Crimson fans share tastes as has been often noted of late, how about literature? For starters here is my top 5 fiction (not necessarily in order) For one, I put an author instead of one particular work since I couldn't decide between them: 1) Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse. Classic tale of Buddha. 2) Pretty much anything by Iain Banks. This guy is really sick. His science fiction culture series is great and his fiction work The Wasp Factory has scenes that make Clive Barker seem tame. His endings are incredible. 3) Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson by Gurdjieff. I've mentioned this one in a previous post. The introductory chapter alone was worth reading. It really twists my head up. 4) Island by Aldous Huxley. One of his later works (his last). Tale of Utopia in trouble. Both hopeful and frightening. 5) The Western Lands by William S. Burroughs. This another really sick, mind twisting work. If you get through it, nothing may shock you again. Peace and Love, Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:55:01 -0600 From: "Jeffrey Breis" Subject: Sid's 'other' book ?! I recently saw on Amazon's book site, that there is a book coming out titled 'King Crimson-Track By Track' by Sid Smith. Is this the US version of 'In The Court Of King Crimson', or a completely different book? It is also listed on the Helter Skelter site. Does anyone know? I already have the UK version and I do not want to spend money on the same thing twice. Any information is appreciated. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:48:29 -0800 (PST) From: Edgar Kausel Subject: Kunio Sumas Midis I'd like to thank Kunio Suma for the outstanding job he did on the Midis posted recently on ET audio page. Tippet's piano and Fripp's guitar in Cirkus are incredible accurate and the 'mix' is louder than the studio takes so you can listen to them very clearly! Edgar Kausel Chile, South America ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:10:38 +1300 From: David Maclennan Subject: Birdman theme on Club 18 (Detroit '71) Attention KClubbers: Anyone else noticed the little theme from McD & G's Birdman Suite played by Fripp as "Ladies of the Road" fades out on Club 18, Live in Detroit 1971? It only lasts for a few seconds, but it's there, if I'm not hearing things. David Maclennan ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #931 ********************************