E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 930 Sunday January 13, 2002 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: Bears tour GIG BIZ: Warr Guitars - Trey Gunn Eye-lizards Elephant Talk #929 My Boring Thoughts: Sleepless and Starless. Greatest Guitarist = Fripp? The CD Problems..... OK then, how much to paint my house? KC and the Rock Hall bambabazooba Peter Gabriel 1-4 Level 5/Sid's book unfairness of life in general Level Five Islands misspelling CENTROZOON: UK Gigs! (+ New Line-up) Other CD misspellings Elephant Talk #929 Great Deceiver question I dont know if this Drummers . . . yeah! About LTIA ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is temporarily being produced using Cheetah PRO Mailing Systems (c) Black Cat Software Factory (info at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tuesday, 08 Jan 2002 12:31:21 From: scottst at ohsu dot edu (Scott Steele) Subject: GIG BIZ: Bears tour >Well now that King Crimson has finished the "Level Five" tour our >tireless friend, Mr. Belew, is back on the road. Hope he doesn't get too tired. From www.thebearsmusic.com: *Jan 30 - Canal Street - Dayton, OH Jan 31 - Club Cafe - Pittsburgh , PA *Feb 1- Magic Bag - Ferndale, MI *Feb 2 - Martyr's - Chicago, IL Feb 7 - Blue Cats - Knoxville, TN Feb 8 - Music Zone - Ashville, NC Feb 9 - Variety Playhouse - Atlanta, GA Feb 10 - 12th and Porter - Nashville, TN Feb 15 - Phoenix Hill - Louisville, KY Feb 16 - Southgate House - Cincinnati, OH And apparently there are more dates to come. - S. np: KC at Plymouth Guildhall, 1971 scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 9 Jan 2002 20:24:49 From: edward at mysticinsect dot freeserve dot co dot uk (Edward of Sim) Subject: GIG BIZ: Warr Guitars - Trey Gunn Hello ET-ers, just forwarding a recent e-mail from Warr, snipping out the irrelevant stuff. [snip] We are proud to announce our new touch-style model the 'Trey Gunn Signature Series' You can see it at http://www.WarrGuitars.com/trey.html Also check out Trey Gunn's new subscription 'Road Journals' Road Journals allow you to share the experience of the upcoming Trey Gunn Band mini-tour in a new and unique way. A Road Journals subscription will allow private web access to exclusive content during the band's West Coast and Mexican tour, starting January 15th. Subscribers will be able to view photos, spoken word diaries, music and more, You can learn more about Trey's 'Road Journals' at http://www.treygunn.com/rj/index.html Warr Guitars is pleased to be hosting superb musical performances during = 2002 NAMM. If any of you are in town feel free to contact us. Hope you c= make it! [snip] Friday, January 18 Trey Gunn Band with other top bands WestCoast Anaheim Hotel, Garden Rooms =AD next to Anaheim Convention Cent= (714) 750-1811 Starts at 7:30 pm INVITE ONLY =AD See us at NAMM Booth 5956, Hall B Saturday, January 19 Trey Gunn Band Live at the Knitting Factory Two shows =AD 8:30 & 10:30 +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+ Edward of Sim a Californian in Lancashire my band: http://www.mp3.com/VirginTwin Spiritual psychedelic power-folk my virtual label: http://www.mysticinsect.freeserve.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 8 Jan 2002 15:28:50 From: upsetter at shore dot net (Art Cohen) Subject: Eye-lizards Dave wrote: : See how two half-decent albums can make one ... decent album: : "Lizard Islands" : 1. Cirkus : 2. Indoor Games (w/ a little laughter cut?) : 3. Happy Family : 4. Formentera Lady : 5. Sailor's Tale : 6. Ladies of the Road : 7. Last Skirmish - Prince Rupert's Lament - Big Top I love the asethetics of the mini-lp gatefold releases, but they must be the most impractical way to store a CD ever. Aside from how awkward it is to take the discs out of the sleeves, I'm always worried about smudging/bending/marring the cardboard sleeves. So I've burned "car copies" of all my re-mastered KC cds. For the last six (LTIA through ToaPP) it was easy; three original CDs fit onto two "car CDs". For the first four albums I had to do some editing... the way I did it was: Islands/Lizard: 1. Formentera Lady 2. Sailor's Tale 3. Lizard (the song; i.e. side 2) 4. Cirkus 5. Indoor Games 6. Song of the Gulls 7. Islands I might have put "Lady of the Dancing Water" after "Indoor Games"; I don't recall now. I used to love "Happy Family" but I found it hasn't stood the test of time so well, at least IMO... that "jazzy" banging of Keith Tippet just sounds (sorry) pretentious in the context of King Crimson, even though I like that style of playing in other contexts. For the first 2 albums, I did the following: Court/Wake 1. Schizoid 2. Talk to the Wind 3. Epitath 4. Moonchild part 1 5. Moonchild part 2 6. Court of the Crimson King 7. Pictures of a City 8. Cadence and Cascade 9. Wake of Poseidon 10. Devil's Triangle "Moonchild" was edited to remove about 5 or 6 minutes of that gawdawful boring (IMO) jam and still maintain the transition from quiet into the booming entrance of "Court of the Crimson King". I'm pretty happy with the way these discs came out. With Crim's first four albums, I've always had mixed feelings about listening to them all the way through. Even on the first album, that jam in "Moonchild" always tried my patience, and each of the other three albums has songs that I just don't like at all. "Happy Family" was the hardest to cut, but I really don't miss it now, and I have two discs that I listen to end-to-end a lot more than I've listened to the original albums in years. And in the case of "Islands", probably ever. Which is nice, because "Formentera/Sailor's" is, IMO, one of the high points of the band's career, one of those few times when they got something down on tape in the studio that they never matched in concert. But I hardly ever listened to it as an album because the two songs that followed it just did nothing for me. And I find that I enjoy "Gulls/Islands" a lot now that I don't have to sit through "Letters" and "Ladies of the Road" (barf) to get to them. Anyone else do something similar with these (or other Crim) albums? --Art ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 8 Jan 2002 15:37:20 From: pao at helpfulsolutions dot com (Paul A. O'Rear) Subject: Elephant Talk #929 Thanks to Biffy, Mike Cross and Peter Allen for the corrections to my incorrect statement regarding whether the version of "I Talk To The Wind" with Judy Dyble is on "The Brondesbury Tapes" CD ( - it is on the CD). Unfortunately my CD has only just been sent out to me today according to DGM. You luck UK'ers get some of this stuff a bit earlier than we yanks. I was relying on Sid Smith's discography in the back of ITCOKC, where he notes additional tracks on TBT that weren't on Metaphormosis. He mentioned nothing of this track, much to my surprise considering the high demand there often is for it since its only appearance on TYPGTKC. Sorry for any confusion! Re: | Subject: Who did autograph ITCOKC book??? My copy has all the same autographs: Michal Giles, Peter Giles, Tony Levin, Bill Bruford, Jamie Muir, Ian Wallace, Ian MacDonald and Sid Smith. Paul Paul A. O'Rear Ph: 717.502.1906 WUGNET Sysop & Microsoft Help MVP Helpful Solutions ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 8 Jan 2002 16:11:35 From: Kissman24 at aol dot com Subject: My Boring Thoughts: Sleepless and Starless. Hello Fellow ET'ers- Well, I haven't said much in a while. I've just been sitting in my dark corner of the living room, reading ET and keeping quiet. I've decided to come out of the shadows for a bit...Just a few things to say, some opinions to express...Shouldn't be too long... I've been listening to lots of Starless and Sleepless lately. Both songs, though they're both vastly different in many ways, have had me hooked lately. They're both such well-structured songs, and they both have great bass lines (if you ask me). I've just been sitting in my room, playing Starless over and over again, figuring out the guitar parts in the song (which I can play now) and just being awe-struck at the tune's sheer beauty...The slow, quiet beginning which builds up to an over-lapping guitar and bass part, into frantic drumming and then -BAM!!!- you get hit with this splash of instruments (that's where the great bass line is), then it all slows down a bit for Fripp to play the song's main riff while Mr. Bruford wails on the cymbol...Then MORE frantic playing and the end part of the song, just leaving me mesmerized...This song gives you a weird feeling. It's like a roller coaster ride; you just don't want it to end, but after 11 minutes it does and you come off it stunned and you jump right back on the line to wait for it again. I think all songs give you a different feeling-all music is made to stir up your emotions, and I think KC do it the best. To me, a song is good when you turn it on, sit back and close your eyes and go off in a dream world-in a trance state-to a place you've never been before. With some songs, like Sleepless, the world is different every time you go there. The bass has you rocking back and forth but there's also that feeling of ease...Like if you're carrying your books home from school and you have to run to get home for some reason and the books are heavy, but your friend Robert Fripp comes up to you and takes your books and says don't worry, man, just go...And you just GO...It's that feeling of being free...But not too free, because Adrian is there to keep you in line ("Alright, get a hold of yourself...")....Is it me?! I'm nuts, aren't I? I have these weird ideas about music...I dunno...sorry guys. Just needed to say that. You're lucky I'm not talking about Gentle Giant! I could REALLY go off on those guys! Sorry I'm rambling...Grr...I had so much more to say, but this post is so long-winded already and I don't think I can get it all out in time before all the thoughts and ideas escape my fragile mind....Maybe I'll add more stuff in the next ET or something. I guess what I really wanna know is...what do you guys think? Do you understand what I'm saying about these songs, or am I the only who can see it?! I'm so weird... :) Peace (A Theme), Love, and Cat Food to all... ---Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 8 Jan 2002 16:26:15 From: Kissman24 at aol dot com Subject: Greatest Guitarist = Fripp? Hey Gang- Just out of curiosity, does anyone here think Mr. Fripp is -THE- greatest guitarist of all time? If not him, who? I have a few favorites, but as far as GREATEST goes...I dunno...Fripp? ---Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 08 Jan 2002 16:28:11 From: Jaz6x6 at aol dot com Subject: The CD Problems..... That reminds me, no cd's that are made by Discipline Global Mobile work on my Sony car stereo. It just scans for a minute, and then says 'error'. Pretty weird, huh? However, they work just fine on an older stereo I have at home, an inexpensive one from Wal-Mart. I have plenty of other cd's besides King Crimson to listen to when i'm out somewhere anyways.... Mr Stanley ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 8 Jan 2002 16:51:18 From: jchasin at nyc dot rr dot com (Josh Chasin) Subject: OK then, how much to paint my house? In ET # 929, my apparent (judging from email addy) homeboy landerson7 at nyc dot rr dot com notes: > When I spoke about that Mexican craftsman, he was pissed precisely > because he thought I was trying to commoditize his work. This was a man > clearly proud of the work of beauty he had created, and by a fair > exchange of $$$ (ie, my paying an amount that would at least represent > the fact that I thought his work was really worth paying for), perhaps > he could feel like his work passed into the hands of someone who really > valued it beyond being a piece of tourist junk. By calculating how much > it costs to feed his family and how much it cost him to make that belt > buckel, aren't I precisely reducing this man to the status of a factory > worker? Aren't I telling him I can "get the same thing elsewhere" and > reducing his work to commodity status? This puts me in mind of a story about Picasso that I am sure I am going to muck up. (Hell, it may not even be about Picasso.) Supposedly he was painting at an easel out on the street. A woman came by and asked him to do her portrait. He finally complied, and when he was done she asked him how much it would cost. He replied, $30,000. (Or some such thing.) The woman, outraged, said, "But it took you 20 minutes to paint it!" "No, Madame," the painter replied, "It took me thirty years." (meaning, in case it wasn't clear, that it took 30 years of work to be able to paint that painting in 20 minutes.) Something about that story also reminds me of Fripp. --josh-- NYC ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 8 Jan 2002 22:43:31 From: JohnWylam at aol dot com Subject: KC and the Rock Hall Hi, Folks -- Vince's post in ET #929 is interesting as a potential next step. He asks, since he's a contributor to the Hall and is on the e-mail list, what to do next. Those of us who are led of the spirit to try affecting future selections ought to make our opinions known. l'm a bit dubious about the idea of e-mailing in this case. However, the mailing address is One Key Plaza, Cleveland OH 44114; snail-mail tends to be more effective when one wants to drive home a point. Fellow ET'ers who've messaged me privately on the subject are understandably doubtful that anyone's minds will be changed. Given past choices, it's easy to see that point of view. And yet: what was it Gandhi said? Something to the effect of "Even though you have to know that what you do is ultimately futile, it is nevertheless very important that you do it." I don't know whether the powers-that-be would be swayed either by a deluge of mail on the subject, or for that matter by the cogency of our arguments, but doing nothing insures that nothing will change. By the way, I just wanted to add a note to the chorus of cheers re: *Level Five*; much fun. Just re-upped for the Collectors' Club as well. Looking well forward to much more fine music, and to the future studio disc, and all yet to come. Be Well, everybody. John Wylam ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 9 Jan 2002 07:14:57 From: george dot koopman at cmg dot nl (George Koopman) Subject: bambabazooba Great, Igor, I thought I was the only KC-fan playing the bambabazooba, but apparently I'm not. You should also check out Orville Awful's new CD "Monologue with Minogue", there's some hefty bambabazooba-playing on that! Seriously, in respons to Nic, is there something like a perfect balance to a song? I think there's a difference between the composition of a song and the arrangement of a song. You can have more than one good arrangement of a song and I don't think that every song is written with a certain arrangement in mind. This is something which develops during playing/recording of a song. So you can always find another balance in a song and in my opinion there is no perfect balance. If there was, you should play a certain song exactly the same every time, else you'd upset the balance. And you don't need to play covers. Talking about covers, I think the KC version of Heroes is pretty okay, but it doesn't come close to the shadow of a single note of the Bowie version. Anyone else agrees? Greetings, George ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 9 Jan 2002 08:46:54 From: richard dot gnad at liwest dot at (Markus Gnad) Subject: Peter Gabriel 1-4 Dudes, from recent entries on the DGM Guestbook I read that Peter Gabriel's 4th album (the one with "San Jacinto" et all) is called "Security". Can somebody please tell me a) the secret names of the other three no-name albums, b) the origins of the secret name(s)? Thanks, Markus ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 9 Jan 2002 22:47:57 From: djmac at paradise dot net dot nz (David Maclennan) Subject: Level 5/Sid's book The Level 5 CD is excellent, but why, I wonder, are the title track and a big chunk of Virtuous Circle recorded in MONO??? (At least they seem to be...) I'm really glad to have this CD (even if it did end up costing around NZ$60). Dangerous Curves reminds me of The Devils's Triangle, with the Mellotron-like opening and the way it gradually builds in intensity. The title track is a Red/THRAK-like stomper -- nothing really new in a sense, but I like it just fine -- and the violin-like opening of Virtuous Circle recalls 73-74 KC. The versions of TCOL and Thrush are probably the best yet committed to CD too. All in all a fine teaser for the next KC album proper. To use a much overused phrase -- I LIKE IT!!!!! As for the Sid Smith book, well, what can I say? It's just excellent. I read it in less than 2 days, and since then have been re-reading the track-by-track album run-downs while listening to the albums themselves. My only complaint is the photos -- there's lots of them, but they are rather small and poorly-reproduced for the most part. A shame Helter Skelter couldn't have gone the extra mile here. In this age of digital reproduction there seems to be little excuse for poor-quality photos in a book. But this is a small gripe really. Well doen Sid, I say! We are all grateful for your persevereance I'm sure. (Glad I managed to get the ltd. ed. version too -- mine's No.219/500). Happy New Year! David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 09 Jan 2002 15:10:34 From: rainbowsky142 at hotmail dot com (Rainbow Sky) Subject: unfairness of life in general >- I don't believe I mentioned the "unfairness of life in general". >That's a valid topic, but I suspect not really appropriate for >discussion in ET :) Thanks for making me laugh - in a good way! fwiw, Mr. Fripp *hasn't* vomited on me, so I guess I can't address this properly. ~Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 10 Jan 2002 14:48:07 From: Amos_Brailey at yahoo dot co dot uk (Amos_Brailey) Subject: Level Five I got my copy in the post the other day, the quality is great and I'm pleased as punch with this release. I'm not the biggest fan of the electronic drums so this was a pleasant surprise as it's not so dominated by that sound (just a personal thang). Amos ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 10 Jan 2002 15:53:12 From: leeg at sport dot rr dot com (Lee Gray) Subject: Islands misspelling If this has been discussed before, I've missed it. I finally found and bought the jewel case version of the remastered Islands (US Caroline). Has anyone else found on their copy that King "Crismson" is misspelled on the spine? I found it mildly amusing. Cheers, Lee ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 10 Jan 2002 19:52:34 From: lee at fletchertronics dot freeserve dot co dot uk (Lee Fletcher) Subject: CENTROZOON: UK Gigs! (+ New Line-up) Dear ETers, Please find below the latest CENTROZOON news FYI: I believe this to be fairly "on topic" given Markus Reuter's Guitar Craft / DGM connections. Also, many of you will be familiar with Robert Fripp's 'No-Man' sessions in the mid 90's... Best wishes, Lee - - - - - - - - - CENTROZOON have commenced work on their 4th studio album, which will usher in a new trio formation: Markus Reuter (touch guitar) and Bernhard Wostheinrich (synthesizers & percussion) are joined by 'No-Man' vocalist Tim Bowness, who recently hooked up with the former duo in Germany to prepare material for a new album. The band will undertake their debut UK tour next month, giving British audiences the first opportunity to sample this trio configuration. The following dates are now confirmed, and with high demand evident all are advised to book tickets in advance: Date: Saturday 23rd February 2002 Venue: Buddle Arts Centre, Wallsend, Tyne & Wear (www.northtynesidearts.org.uk) Box Office: (0191) 2007132 Note: Duo performance, (Markus Reuter & Bernhard Wostheinrich) Date: Tuesday 26th February 2002 Venue: Phoenix Arts Centre, Exeter, Devon (www.exeterphoenix.org.uk) Box Office: (01392) 667080 Note: Trio performance, featuring Tim Bowness on vocals Date: Thursday 28th February 2002 Venue: The Assembly House Centre, Norwich, Norfolk (www.assemblyhousenorwich.co.uk) Box Office: (01603) 660352 / 'Burning Shed' shop @ www.burningshed.com Note: Trio performance, featuring Tim Bowness on vocals. CENTROZOON share the bill with fellow 'Burning Shed' artists: Roger Eno, Peter Chilvers and Mark Beazley (of ROTHKO). A further date in the Oxford area is under discussion, but as yet unconfirmed. ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 10 Jan 2002 19:48:27 From: leeg at sport dot rr dot com (Lee Gray) Subject: Other CD misspellings > I finally found and bought the jewel case version of the remastered Islands > (US Caroline). Has anyone else found on their copy that King "Crismson" > misspelled on the spine? A little while after I posted that message, I looked at my other remastered jewel case editions... Poseidon and Lizard also have the misspelled "Crismson". Lee ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 11 Jan 2002 00:34:19 From: Hody224 at cs dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #929 On the subject of the Giles Giles & Fripp demos: Has anybody noticed a different flute track on Digging My Lawn on the Cd as opposed to the Metaphormosis Lp. I much prefer the Lp version. Frank ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 11 Jan 2002 13:39:49 From: jimb at ehmail dot com (Jim Bailey) Subject: Great Deceiver question Greetings one and all, and best wishes for this new year, While making up a mini-disc with a re-organized version of TGD recently, I was reminded of a question that I've been pondering for some time, and for which no answer seems to be available. At least, though I haven't done an exhaustive search, I still haven't seen the subject mentioned anywhere (and yes, I've checked the FAQ). My dilemma is this: To what do the epigrams for each of the discs refer, if anything? Also, where do they come from? Not exactly earth-shattering perhaps, but just one of those gnawing questions (well ok, two). Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 11 Jan 2002 13:09:44 From: jcurtis at chemline dot com (Jim Curtis) Subject: I dont know if this is like a letters to the editor spot or what but I stumbledon this site. KC are coming to Toronto and one of the concert presenters is a local "classic rock" station . My observation is this. These classic rock stations - especially this one NEVER play KC may be once a year they may toss on Court of the... but they do ads for the show as if they have given a shit about KC for years. It's great that there is a show dont get me wrong but I'd like to see the band in the course of the evening make reference to the fact that the radio has not supported them or played their stuff at all. ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 12 Jan 2002 15:30:28 From: njw100 at soton dot ac dot uk (Nicholas WHITTAKER) Subject: Drummers . . . yeah! In all this recent talk of drummers (which i love by the way!) I have been surprised that a few have not been mentioned. Andy McCullough - who garnered criticism in this forum last year but who i think is incendiary on 'Lizard' Carl Palmer - I imagine ET is not short of ELP sceptics, but the guy's a formidable player. Jaki Liebezeit - Ok, you name a finer avant-kraut-funk drummer. Mitch Mitchell. Christian Zander of Magma. Later. Nick Whittaker. np: MAGMA, Magma Live. ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 12 Jan 2002 19:40:32 From: Jaz6x6 at aol dot com Subject: About LTIA Is there a car-horn sound provided by Jamie Muir in the original Lark's Tongue in Aspic? I've heard it so many times and just noticed it......funny how those things happen sometimes. Brandon S. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #930 ********************************