E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 929 Tuesday January 8, 2002 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: Adrian Belew - The Bears best non-KC of 2001 VROOOM VROOOM playback problems & some other stuff "I Talk to the Wind" with Dyble KC and Rock Hall Who did autograph ITCOKC book??? Detriot 1971 and KCCC Elephant Talk #927 His Name Is Alive Sid`s book That painter dude's RIP OFF prices! Oh PLEASE! To those of you who assume that I want to sleep with Trey Gunn..... Heavy Cons video and XP Bad Religion's 21'st Century Digital Boy "Lizard Islands" -- Groan! Help needed for an essay on DGM Bruford on TheOutdoorChannel? Re-releasing "Lone Rhino" and "Twang Bar King" Dawn of ET; Josette; cover versions of Red; CGT Christmas CD; Live Encounter & Vrooom Vrooom Reviewed Syd Smith book Elephant Talk and the Google Groups Usenet Archives ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is temporarily being produced using Cheetah PRO Mailing Systems (c) Black Cat Software Factory (info at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Monday, 7 Jan 2002 09:21:24 From: bennyb at i2k dot net (Robert Bennett) Subject: GIG BIZ: Adrian Belew - The Bears Well now that King Crimson has finished the "Level Five" tour our tireless friend, Mr. Belew, is back on the road. He is playing at a small club in Ferndale Michigan, called the Magic Bag with his "other" band, The Bears on February 1, 2002. For those you in the Michigan and surrounding area - this is a very small club and will be a great place to see Adrian have some pop music fun. Bob Bennett ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 5 Jan 2002 14:31:52 From: rone at ennui dot org (fate healer) Subject: best non-KC of 2001 I would like to chime in with two CDs: - Toadies, _Hell Below/Stars Above_. Their overly-delayed followup to _Rubberneck_ shows off their ability to rock out of 4/4 while, at the same time, showing some growth. - Puya, _Union_. A solid followup to _Fundamental_; they manage to blend heavy metal with Latin rhythms in a way i would not have thought acceptable until i heard them. Right now i'm (patiently) waiting for ticketweb.com to start selling tickets for The Trey Gunn Band at Cafe du Nord in San Francisco. rone ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 5 Jan 2002 19:47:18 From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com Subject: VROOOM VROOOM playback problems & some other stuff Mark Kaefer wrote: >Has anybody reading this had any trouble with the playback of "VROOOM >VROOOM?" A number of people have complained about the tracking problem on "People" from _VROOOM VROOOM_. It depends on your CD player: my copy skips like mad on my Sony Discman, but tracks through just fine on my (rather old) JVC player. Nic Roozeboom wrote: >The mention of an 8-minute version of Red strikes me with a mixture of >curiosity and, well, horror. How would anyone pull off (arbitrarily, >tastefully, better than the original?) extending the length of a piece >of such classically perfect internal proportions? Well, check out the great *11*-minute version by Either/Orchestra on their CD _The Half-Life Of Desire_! Paul A. O'Rear wrote: >Interesting that it should make that claim ("the complete set"), when >the version of "I Talk To The Wind" with Judy Dyble doesn't make it onto >the CD Funny, it made it onto my copy! Your pal, Biffy the Elephant Shrew http://www.cd3.com/michaelpdawson ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 06 Jan 2002 00:41:40 From: mike at mjckeh dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Cross) Subject: "I Talk to the Wind" with Dyble In message et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Elephant Talk) writes: } Date: Wednesday, 2 Jan 2002 08:36:53 } From: pao at helpfulsolutions dot com (Paul A. O'Rear) } Subject: Elephant Talk #927 } } Loren Karnick wrote: } } | The liner notes for the CD suggest that the CD incorporates the 13 } | tracks licensed to Tenth Planet Records for Metamorphosis, and says as } | well that the "CD represents the complete set of GG&F's domestic } | recordings pioneered by Peter Giles at 93A Brondesbury Road". I almost } } Interesting that it should make that claim ("the complete set"), when } the version of "I Talk To The Wind" with Judy Dyble doesn't make it onto } the CD - unfortunately. Have you actually checked the CD booklet? There are two versions of "I Talk to the Wind" on "The Brondesbury Tapes". Track 10's personnel is listed as Giles, Giles, Fripp and McDonald, but track 16 has Giles, Giles, Fripp, McDonald, & Dyble (vocals). all the best, -- Michael J. Cross Visit http://www.mjckeh.demon.co.uk for BSFA Magazine Index, and John Cipollina Discography New, improved BSFA Index at http://www.santaroga.uklinux.net ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 5 Jan 2002 22:18:50 From: vince-m at prodigy dot net (Vincent W. Marckioni) Subject: KC and Rock Hall In reply to Mark Stansbery' post in ET #928 about King Crimson and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I am a card carrying Charter Supporting Member of the RRHoF. I think that I recieved the invitation because I was a subscriber to Rolling Stone. Anyway, I also got first dibs on the $142. floor of Cleveland Stadium for the big concert that happened the Labor Day Weekend grand opening. I've been back at least once a year and sometimes twice. Recently, I was invited to join a RRhoF email list. So, it appears that now I have maybe somewhat of a conduit to let them know that I, and a lot of other people are interested in seeing the Crims in there too. What should I do? Happy New Year Quombayah vince ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 6 Jan 2002 08:26:58 From: PR1955 at aol dot com Subject: Who did autograph ITCOKC book??? In regard to the past few postings of just who did autograph Mr. Sid Smith's book I have 368/500 and have IDed:: Michal Giles,Peter Giles,Tony Levin,Bill Bruford,Jamie Muir,Ian Wallace.Ian MacDonald and Sid Smith...There are 500 of these out there and I would be courious to know if anyone else did infact sign them...So come on ET'ers,'fess up and post if there is any variation to the above list...By the way who got 1/500??? Peace(a theme) and Cat Food to ya all.............. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 7 Jan 2002 02:45:51 From: pda at melbpc dot org dot au (Peter Allen) Subject: Detriot 1971 and KCCC Dear Warren, - There is no need to teach me to suck eggs. It should have been obvious from my post that I am aware of the Club and how it works. You joined at #11. I joined at #1. - If you don't think Elephant Talk is the appropriate forum to discuss the balance of Club and public KC releases, then what is? - Why do you call such a discussion "whining"? - What brings you to the conclusion that DGM will close down ("as a result not get any releases") if anyone brings up this topic? It's interesting that you think a request for more public archive KC releases might so depress Fripp that he packs in the music business. Somehow I don't think so........ - With your experience of the Club releases, are you really suggesting there is insufficient quality material from 1970-mid 1973, or from 1981-1983, for a public release on a par (interest- wise) with "Epitaph" or "Level 5"? My point was that ETers' reviews seemed to suggest that there is; and that in the case of late 1995-1996 there has now been a public release (Vroom Vroom). - I don't believe I mentioned the "unfairness of life in general". That's a valid topic, but I suspect not really appropriate for discussion in ET :) Cheers, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 7 Jan 2002 02:59:52 From: pda at melbpc dot org dot au (Peter Allen) Subject: Elephant Talk #927 Paul, You have it the wrong way round I think. "Metamorphosis" (the LP) has 1 version of 'I Talk To The Wind', without Judy Dyble contributing. "The Brondesbury Tapes" (on CD) has two versions of the song, one with Judy Dyble on vocals, and one without. Cheers, Peter Dr Peter Allen (pda at melbpc dot org dot au) Melbourne PC User Group ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 6 Jan 2002 10:36:49 From: RadioactiveToy71 at netzero dot net (RadioactiveToy71) Subject: His Name Is Alive I recently received MusicHound's Essential Album Guide to Rock as a gift (very enjoyable and informative, btw), and while skimming random entries, I found this description for a band called His Name is Alive: "a sort of new age college radio version of King Crimson." While this may seem an oversimplification of their music, it's got me interested nonetheless. Anyone listen to these guys and if so, what could you suggest? If Toby prefers, private emails are fine so as not to clog up the digest. Thanks, Chris We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 06 Jan 2002 10:40:56 From: vdorje at ev1 dot net Subject: Sid`s book >if you want to buy the regular unsigned book, just buy it thru >www.artist-shop.com or thru DGM. Well worth having, autographed or not BTW, Amazon will have copies for sale in USA very soon (Jan or Feb) 2002 ~C ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 6 Jan 2002 11:46:29 From: landerson7 at nyc dot rr dot com (Ling & Emory) Subject: That painter dude's RIP OFF prices! Jordan Clifford missed my point. No wait, he PROVED my point... "Now i am not knocking that, Ill pick a KC show over a britney spears show or most other shows any day, but ETers have been gettin on my case about "THE COST OF TOURING" and ticket prices, so if we really want to compare and britney spears tickets cost 50 dollars then KC tickets should by no mean cost even 40 dollars which seemed to be the cheapest ticket price on the tour." That's exactly the kind of attitude I was hammering on in my original post. What you have done here is basically reduce the cost of a concert down to $/pound, and what I'm trying to point out is that is not a very profitable way to proceed when thinking about the cost of a ticket. Let me try again. "There was this painter-guy last century, I think he was French or something, and this dude cut off his ear. OK OK, he painted some nice paintings, but a lot of them now sell for MILLIONS per painting. I mean, come on! It could not have cost more than about $5 in materials to make any one of those paintings. OK, maybe he can crank out one good painting every couple of days, but AT MOST that's a few hundred $ of regular salary. So let's put a profit margin on those paintings and say that AT MOST, one of those paintings shouldn't cost more than $1,000." In case you couldn't tell, that was a joke. And yes, I am aware of the fact that there's a lot of speculation and hype in the price of a painting from a famous painter. But in the end, for a true connesuer or gallary to pruchase one of those paintings, the price of the painting is going to be much more a function of something intangible, like the beauty, power, or feeling the painting gives off. You can't boil down the cost of art to some commoditized viewpoint: if you do, you get New Jersey's big, tasteless styrofoam food. In the case of King Crimson, I would feel petty saying they were charging too much at $50/ticket. FOrget how much you believe Britney spent on her tour: the QUALITY of the experience you get from a King Crimson concert is far more valuable than what you could get with Britney (provided you are not male and stare at her middrift). Who knows? Maybe Crimson has a million guys backstage working machinery and electronics you can't actually see with your eyes to the effect that this is a tremendous concert experience. It doesn't matter. All I'm trying to say is that I don't mind hurting a tiny bit $$$-wise when I go to see one of their concerts: it cost them something to do this, and I think its only fair that I value what these men do by allowing myself to hurt a bit in appreciation. When I spoke about that Mexican craftsman, he was pissed precisely because he thought I was trying to commoditize his work. This was a man clearly proud of the work of beauty he had created, and by a fair exchange of $$$ (ie, my paying an amount that would at least represent the fact that I thought his work was really worth paying for), perhaps he could feel like his work passed into the hands of someone who really valued it beyond being a piece of tourist junk. By calculating how much it costs to feed his family and how much it cost him to make that belt buckel, aren't I precisely reducing this man to the status of a factory worker? Aren't I telling him I can "get the same thing elsewhere" and reducing his work to commodity status? And isn't this exactly what's wrong with the world? ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 6 Jan 2002 11:42:01 From: Josette484 at aol dot com Subject: Oh PLEASE! To those of you who assume that I want to sleep with Trey Gunn..... You couldn't be further from the truth...I want to be WIDE awake and fully conscious! xoxoxox Josette ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 6 Jan 2002 14:56:29 From: duhigg at worldnet dot att dot net (Bill Duhigg) Subject: Heavy Cons video and XP Anyone having problems hearing the Rome concert video on "Heavy Construction" when playing on Windows Media Player 8.00.00.4477 on Windows XP Home? The video seems to be OK and WMP can play other .asf files OK, though I don't have any whose size and 'rates' are comparable with KC's. WMP reports the problem as error #C00D109B, but no further info is available at the MS site (I search the KB also). He'p me somebody! Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 6 Jan 2002 21:13:57 From: c dot deming at snet dot net (Chris Deming) Subject: Bad Religion's 21'st Century Digital Boy A while ago, I picked up a compilation album (All Ages) by the punk band, Bad Religion. There's one song on that record that's interesting from a KC perspective: 21'st Century Digital Boy. At first, I thought it was just a similar title to KC's schizoid man. But at the end of the song, if you listen carefully, you can hear them singing lines lifted from 21'st Century Schizoid Man: "Cat's foot, iron claw, Neuro-surgeon's scream for more, innocents raped with napalm fire". And there are a couple of slightly modified lines: "Everything I want I really need, 21'st century schizoid boy". Also, the name of the record company is Epitaph - apparently inspired by the KC song. I think this song is the same version that is on an earlier record: Against The Grain. They re-recorded the song for the album: Stranger Than Fiction, which was released on the Atlantic label, and it was also released as a single. I haven't heard the Atlantic version, so I don't know if it also has the lifted lines in it. I wonder if other punk bands have quoted KC lyrics? ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 07 Jan 2002 02:45:02 From: allen508 at hotmail dot com (Dave Allen) Subject: "Lizard Islands" -- Groan! See how two half-decent albums can make one ... decent album: "Lizard Islands" 1. Cirkus 2. Indoor Games (w/ a little laughter cut?) 3. Happy Family 4. Formentera Lady 5. Sailor's Tale 6. Ladies of the Road 7. Last Skirmish - Prince Rupert's Lament - Big Top Here's to an early 2002 general release of the Earthbound/1972 Ladies of the Road/whatever live CD(s) from the band that could turn Groon into porn music! - Dave ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 07 Jan 2002 15:53:05 From: alexandre dot demetriou at int-evry dot fr (tourist) Subject: Help needed for an essay on DGM Dear ETers, I'm a student in a French business school and am currently working on an essay in economics. The subject is: music on the Internet. As a KC & Fripp enthusiast and future member of the KCCC, I use Discipline Global Mobile as an example of what can be efficiently done on the WWW but I need more information, especially figures and, if possible, graphs. I sent a mail saying this to DGM Web but the answer was "Unfortunately DGM is a private company and does not make such information public" , which is perfectly understandable. Obviously, I intend to go on with the essay anyway but it would be much easier if I could find some precise information, other than what can be found on the official DGM, ET & KC related sites. If somebody could help me on this by sending me a private mail ( alexandre dot demetriou at int-evry dot fr ) , it would be of much help. What I really need is some business information on DGM's (eventual) difficulties and its future strategies. Figures, articles, sites, etc... basically anything precise and related to DGM is likely to be useful. Thanks in advance and happy new Crimson year to all, Peace & anarchy, Alex, listening to THRAK. ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 07 Jan 2002 11:09:12 From: spike at starrstuff dot com (Spike) Subject: Bruford on TheOutdoorChannel? In the Earthworks Newsletter last week, it mentioned that Bill and Earthworks will be appearing on The Outdoor Channel on the Jim Baugh Show, Jan 27 at 5:00 EST. Isn't that the hunting channel? Is Bill and group going to take down a full grown bull moose with some really hot jazz? Take it easy, Spike ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 7 Jan 2002 15:06:30 From: Elecat at aol dot com Subject: Re-releasing "Lone Rhino" and "Twang Bar King" Hullo! Unfortunately, I doubt these will ever be re-released aside from the "Desire of the Rhino King" compilation. Island Records lost the master tapes. Bummer. Peace be with you, John ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 07 Jan 2002 13:23:57 From: scottst at ohsu dot edu (Scott Steele) Subject: Dawn of ET; Josette; cover versions of Red; CGT Christmas CD; > Is there a King Crimson/Fripp activities mailing list? If not... (deep breath) ... I volunteer to start up and be moderator. Mail me if (a) you already know of a list, or (b) you want to join up on a new one Toby A historic day indeed. Thanks Toby, Dan, Mike, and anyone else that I left out for many, many years of excellent reading. >And, for a real treat, you can even catch me live and scantily clad >next week on VH1....I'm working on a 6 part documentary on "The Secret >World of Groupies" Part one will be on January 11th and 12th....go to >the VH1 website for times..http://www.VH1.com. Thank you for calling this to our attention Josette. >The mention of an 8-minute version of Red strikes me with a mixture of >curiosity and, well, horror. How would anyone pull off (arbitrarily, >tastefully, better than the original?) extending the length of a piece >of such classically perfect internal proportions? Well, when the Either/Orchestra covered the song, they wrote a set of chord changes that were somewhat related to the original tune, for the purposes of soloing. I think the results were good, and I look forward to hearing the Niacin version. >One more thing: Thanks to the California Guitar Trio for a beautiful >Christmas album! I agree Mark, this is a real winner. >Does anyone know what happened about the release of Adrian Belew's >proposed box set entitled "Dust"?. Hooter. Still not ready. >When I joined, I asked for CD #11 plus 5 other old CDs. They arrived a >few days later in the mail. After that I decided to once again join (I >think I am due to renew again soon - Do they send you a reminder?). I hope so. I have very much enjoyed being a member of the Club and I would hate to miss out on anything. - S. np: Kings on Straw Mats, Two thirds Kings two thirds Gone scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 7 Jan 2002 20:42:48 From: mrkndrew at cinci dot rr dot com (Mark Stansbery) Subject: Live Encounter & Vrooom Vrooom Reviewed The latest issue of Downbeat magazine (Feb, 2002) includes reviews of both "Live Encounter" by the Trey Gunn Band and "Vrooom Vrooom" by you know who. Both reviews are quite favorable. Out of a possible 5 stars, Trey's album gets 4 and KC's gets 4 1/2. A couple of other albums I have seen mentioned here also received decent reviews in the same issue: "Vespertine" by Bjork and "Drawn From Life" by Eno/Schwalm. This is a redundant post if you are a DGM Guestbook reader -- sorry! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 7 Jan 2002 23:55:23 From: eyoung at ezol dot com (Eric / Susan Young) Subject: Syd Smith book Hey Ho, everyone! For a strange reason, I don't know why, November 3 was the last ET that I received. I will not take up time complaining, but since I have not read anything 'updated' lately, could someone please let me know if they have had the same hard time purchasing this delicious-looking new book as I have had????? I am, of course, referring to the Sid (or Syd) Smith book out recently. I tried to order through the Helter Skelter site - heard nothing, and have emailed them three times as to confirm my order. And three times, again, I have heard nothing! Help? Comments? Cliche's? Anyone can tell me where I can get a hardback copy (I believe one exists?) and I would be supremely grateful!! Thanks - Out of the loop, E Young ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 8 Jan 2002 03:03:30 From: tobyljhoward at yahoo dot com (Toby Howard) Subject: Elephant Talk and the Google Groups Usenet Archives Mike Dickson (the so-called "Temporary ET Moderator" or somesuch) wrote: > [ An amazing bit of archaeology, Dan!! And to think > that Toby was only > 48 when he wrote this. :-) -- Mike ] I resemble that remark. Toby (The REAL moderator, reading ET, would you believe, from a basement internet cafe in Shinjuku. Not checking up, you understand, just reading for pleasure... :-) ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #929 ********************************