E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 925 Friday December 28, 2001 Today's Topics: My list/Bonham/Whats w/the East Coast Gig's? worth of a cd The Idiot's Guide to Political Posture, Ticket Prices and Ethics. Audience distillation and top 5 lists and prices Drummers, drummers, drummers Should he get Frame by Frame? Sid Smith Book trio tune Bowie(Darly Hall & Peter Gabriel) and fripp? KC done by the four Finnish cellists reich's electric counterpoint Various thoughts on a winter night GG&F Metamorphosis vinyl vs. Brondesbury Tapes CD -- same thing??? Sid Smith's book -- opinions/thoughts New Damage Differences GIG REVIEW: Setlist for 8/7/01 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is temporarily being produced using Cheetah PRO Mailing Systems (c) Black Cat Software Factory (info at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tuesday, 25 Dec 2001 18:54:46 From: dose2000 at msn dot com (LAVERNE MUNARI) Subject: My list/Bonham/Whats w/the East Coast Gig's? First to the entire ET gang, Thanks for another great year, & hoping the Hollidays are good to you! Can someone shed light on the vastly, varying reports on KC's East Coast Gigs, & especially the 1 at the Beacon? Since I have no direct knowledge of these performances, except what I read here, I am completely confused by the seemingly polar opposite opinions of the same gig, or the decline of what KC are "apparently" doing in their shows in the East? Some of it can(I guess?)be explained by different reviewers sitting in opposite sections of the venue, & i'm of course taking into account that these reveiws are just oppinions. What I can't figure is different accounts of how long the guy's performed, or how a # of different audients reported quite differently on how the members of KC acted both during & after the gig? I would really like to know what the causes could be here, & besides Adrian having tooth/general health problems, this does'nt seem to be(I would hope)a case of the boy's "winding down" this far into the tour & not giving it their all?! Can some East Coasters please elaborate? I can only go by what went on in St. Louis, & to quickly sum it up, JPJ played 1 hour of a fairly good set(horrible muddy soundmix)which drew approx. a 50/50 positive/negitive response of the people I was with & those I talked to & got mail from. There was a 30 min equipment tear down/set up, followed by an enthusiastic, high energy super performance by KC, WITH "improvs", and while Robert was sitting in a darker area than the others, he was more centerstage than i've ever seen him before, & along with the other 3, waved to us(more than general acknowledgement)scanned the crowd, & seemed delighted by the crowd's behavior! As usual Adrian was the most animated, & of course vocal in speaking to the crowd between songs, but Pat & Trey also played w/fire & purpose, for 90 mins!(My friend timed the event)A couple of the boy's mingled w/the audients that stuck around inside for the purpose of meeting/getting autographs, which many did. So what happened to change things so much in 2-3 weeks time? Here's my list for best 5 cd's released in 2001: 1. 2. 3.Would be for the fantastic 3 cd set released by Planet X, called "Planet X 3 Pack/Raw" which were all signed by Derek Sherinian, numbered & dated by him as to where each "Live" recording took place. 2 of them recorded at the hottest club in Hollywood, "The Baked Potato" 1 on May 27th, another on August 25th 2000. The 3rd was recorded at the "Musician's Institute" also in Hollywood on May 19th 2001. Line-up is: Sherinian/Keyboards/Synths-The incredible Tony MacAlphine/Guitar-great bass by both Tom Kennedy & Dave LaRue on different sets, and the most incredible drummer to "burst" onto the music scene in 6 yrs. the possible ALIEN(in terms of other Worldly)Virgil Donati , who also writes alot of the music & is hands down THE fastest double bass drummer, whether it be on 2 bass drums, or a dbl pedal. Of course fast does'nt necessarily equate into great drumming, but w/Virgil it does, as he never overplays or steps on any musicial toes, only playing what fits. It's hard to try & catagorize the mus ic of Planet X but IMHO, folks who like where KC is going will also love the extremely HEAVY(somewhat metalic)structured(but w/alot of improvosation)progressive (I know;-)fusion meets metal, meets great compositions. It just has to be heard to be understood, & loved! 4."Level 5" by 5."Compression" by Billy Sheehan, if you like Sheehan then he's the best bass player around, & on this solo effort,does vocals & plays Bass/Ultra Bass/Barritone 12 string electric guitar/Barritone 6 string electric guitar/bass, & a bit of drum programming(which as a drummer, I normally detest, but there is so much other great stuff going on here, either I don't notice or mind!)There are special guests like Steve Vai/guitar-Terry Bozzio/a million drums/cymbals/effects, & Simone Sello doing key's/drum programming. Stunning.(If I had'nt written a novel here, I add a coupla' more) If someone out there can explain to me WHY the KC ticket prices on the East Coast(NY in general)are like twice what we here in St. Louis paid($30 FLAT!)for the same or as mentioned previously, better performance by the King? I've had many discussions w/people from NY who have "attempted" to explain this to me but none of those arguments held water IMO. So please tell me what it is that drives up these prices?? Lastly(I know everyone who is still reading this is now "feeling better" w/that said..)To Mark Tucker(there may be others, I missed 4 ET issues as I think my son deleted them, & I don't want to single out Mark if there were others?)I simply cannot understand how you claim to LOVE Led Zepplin, but then don't "get" or respect John Bonham's fabulous drumming?? Sure Neil Peart is a very talented drummer, & Bruford sits high on many people's list, & while I personally liked the over the top but often very loose since he WAS Keith Moon, & had his own way of doing things, more often than not, under the influence, let's be truthful, "live" Keith was often sloppy, but I liked him because he took risks & tried to contend with the "in your face" Pete Townsend & Daltry who both tried to "front" the band. While it's not ever quite fair to compare musicians, you have to admit that Trilok does'nt fit w/these other drummers, because of the hybrid setup of unusual drums/percussion he uses. I would guess Mark, that you are NOT a drummer? Musician? I say this because Bonham was THE hard rock drummer who literally/figuratively, got probably 100,000 kids to pick up drumsticks & become, or try & become drummers! If you are a drummer, have you ever sat behind you kit & tried to duplicate Bonhams drumming on, say "The Crunge" or how about "Immigrant Song" or even tunes that seem simpler & more seemingly blue's based such as "Dazed & Confused"? Even on tunes like the last I mentioned Bonzo often used his largest floor tom to make the listener think it was a double b ass drum lick, when it wa s a triplet or a quad! In fact when LZ was still the "New Yardbird's" Bonham began using 2 bass drums but quickly went to what became the set-up MANY drummer's could buy & use(Ludwig's Vistalite kit)to TRY & duplicate the Bonham sound. This guy grew up listening to & playing like the "Soul Music" drummers of Motown & Memphis, & also playing "big band/jazz stuff", and he was super funky, just ask such great player's as Dennis Chambers(who many call the ultimate funk drummer)Steve Smith-Terry Bozzio-Billy Cobham, on & on. Just read some Modern Drummer magazines to find out what t he great one's think Bonham's effect on drumming was. Bonham was inducted into MD's "Hall of Fame" years ago. Oh well, if you don't get it, all the words I type won't change how you perceive him, John was a fine drummer, with enough soul & funk & great technique to make 2 great drummers just from his talent. Zepplin was a very hit & miss "live" band, but it was'nt Bonham's fault 95% of the time, even when he got off into drug/alcohol excess. JB was a bad boy, & I for one would have LOVED to have heard him sit in on a James Brown set as he would have nailed those great tunes! Yes I am a drummer who began playing when I was 8 & still play & am 49. Once again i've managed to break the long post record, sorry guy's I just often feel so strongly that I tend to "Ramble On..." And thanks again for another great year of ET fun & enlightenment. I probably would'nt have missed KC touring thru here w/o ET, but I surely would have missed out on special recordings, & inside info I have found nowhere else. Steven Munari "Drums are my beat" Sandy Nelson(Probably the 1st time his name has appeared here?!) ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 25 Dec 2001 22:32:14 From: GrooveHolmes394 at hotmail dot com (Jordan Clifford) Subject: worth of a cd >There has been alot of discussion about the price of the Level 5 CD, and >many have complained about paying $15.00 for an EP. Under any economic >situation, the price of a CD is relative to the benefit that the >consumer receives for the product purchased. If you feel that you did >not receive your $15.00 worth, you can contact the manufacturer and >request a refund, but having to return the disc (Uncopied I hope). No, you cant get a refund if you dont like the music on a cd. and today, that probably has a lot to do with the fact that i could, and would, burn the cd. to be honest with you, if that was the case, id go buy cds, burn them, and return them for a refund. but its not, probably becasue of people like me. thats half because im poor and half because i guess i just dont have many thoughts on the morals behind freee music. Please, no comments or flames thats not the point of this post. But I never said I didnt get my moneys worth. If there was any new release i had to pay 15 dollars this would be one of them. I knew that, and thats why I bought it in the first place. But even with all the capabilities I have of downloading and burning free music, I probably buy more cds now then i did before all this downloading and burning technology came about. But that doesnt mean I still dont think it is expensive over all. Expensive compared to most other cd prices in major stores today? No. Expensive comparing the worth of a lot of other music today? No. But the worth of whats on the cd doesnt have that much to do with the actually monetary cost of it. I think its a different issue, but of course it comes into the decision making process when I buy cds.. again, thats why I bought this one. ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 23 Nov 2001 14:20:05 From: rraupers at stny dot rr dot com (RAYMOND RAUPERS) Subject: The Idiot's Guide to Political Posture, Ticket Prices and Ethics. I want to thank ET's moderators for lightening their hand against the political winds that have breezed through recent posts. ET will achieve limited utility in the vacuum of past practice. A recent post discussed how all Governments past and present fail to be what they posture. Of course they do, that is the inherent nature of all Government; to posture and grow to serve it's own needs in disconnect with the people it taxes. It is not necessary to deny, challenge or overcome that reality for that would be fantasy. Another century of witness would not serve to convert the young or closed minded. They will respectively learn or continue to refuse to learn. Success is found at the individual level where there are two types of people. One that has their hand in the pocket of the taxpayer and one that does not. One justifies their income through political posture and the other enjoys some benefit while shouldering the Government's inaccountability, and inequitable payscale/benefits vs the private sector. Success is private in the individual choices we make while playing this game of which we didn't make the rules. Government has always armed itself to enforce our attendance. The fundamental rule that has always and will always stand is the golden rule: "He/She that has the gold makes the rules". Ethics and morality are not free, quite the contrary they are always an expensive human indulgence. Artists as individuals seeking to share expressions of ethics and morality are making an investment in their own personal development. It is a personal selfish want that drives any artist to their craft. Of course some find that idea offensive and contradictory to their perceptions as fans whom want to fall just short of worshiping them at stage side. It is entirely acceptable for an artist to set any price for tickets or any product. As long as we as individuals are free to choose whether or not to satisfy it. Either through transference of cash or compliance with "Flash Bulb Bans". Nothing about this is complicated. And in closing this post I must respond that nothing is more obvious that Cain was not his brother's keeper. He was his brother's murderer. Talk about posturing! ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 26 Dec 2001 00:45:24 From: beth-el-sonj at att dot net (Beth El) Subject: Audience distillation and top 5 lists and prices In Elephant Talk #924, Dave Allen discussed Fripp's attitude and the possibility of attempting to "distill" the audience. I think I mostly agree. Fripp's attitude has never prevented me from buying an album or ticket. Nor have prices of tickets or albums prevented me from the same. I am grateful for what I can immediately afford and am grateful later for disks I pick-up used, on sale etc.... I believe I have great taste and find responses to my comments on other artists in Elephant Talk tend to support my views. I am not sure that Dave's chef analogy holds up completely, but does come close. I avoid restaurants owned by people I don't like, while I am drawn to those that are friendly in attitude. However, there is always another good restaurant with other good cuisine right around the corner, whereas I can not imagine anything really substituting for Crimson. At times, I have been driven away from certain acts, artists etc... if their politics and behavior seem reprehensible to me, but this only works someone can fill the void that's been left. On one occasion, years and years ago, an author seemed totally uninterested in giving any sort of thoughtful answer to my questions at a lecture. The result was that I quit reading his stuff for a time, quit following his lead and found my own path. Today, I appreciate his refusal to lead me. I think that if you look into the work of any master you might acknowledge will fail to live up to "your" expectations, and indeed, if this were not the case, wouldn't you be their master? I have not put together my own top 5 list, but love this idea. As I said above, our tastes on Elephant Talk tend to run in similar directions, so keep the suggestions coming. Peace and Love, Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 26 Dec 2001 09:49:33 From: waitingman7 at yahoo dot com (Frank P) Subject: Drummers, drummers, drummers Hi All, 1) The whole Bonzo debate: I think Mark Tucker is wrong. He may not like Bonham's style, but to say he doesen't stand up to Neil Peart, Trilok Gurtu, Morris Pert, Keith Moon, Bruford, etc. is ignorant. However, music is an art not a sport and music is subjective and therefore difficult to measure and rate. But if you rate drummers on creativity, technical ability, diversity and influence John Bonham is a tower. Every drummer would be the first to tell you. If Mark chooses to re-listen more closely (which I hope he does), may I make a few recommendations which I hope he will enjoy: I don't know where to begin oh, how about The Crunge, I think it's in 9/11 and the verses go to 5/7. It's a cruel hoax by Zep it sounds funky, you want to dance but you can't because it's in such a complex time signature that's Bonham! Take a listen to ANY live version Dazed and Confused from 71-75, as Bonham must change time signatures (on the fly!!) about 5- 10 times each performance. The European 73 shows alone are enough to make any drummer want to quit. Let's see - Poor Tom, In My Time of Dying, Carousellombra (sp?), Tea For One and When The Levy Breaks are a few studio recordings off the top me lead. The Bottom line is: Bonham's drum rolls purr and hiss, his snare drum snaps and cracks, his bass drum can be as quite as a sleeping dragon, as loud as thunder, as slow as lava or as fast as a humming bird, his cymbals can sound like rain drops or the Fourth of July. John Bonham IS rock drumming as we know it. And the reason it sounds bombastic is because Bonham (and Zep) understood the power of dynamics, and light and shade. Shouting a swear word at Church is a lot more noticeable than doing the same at a boxing match. 2) And Monty wrote regarding The whole Pat vs. BB thing: the problem is what he IS- a heavy-handed drummer who doesn't have a sense of 'groove' Monty, take a listen to XTC's Oranges and Lemmons. Pat can (and does!) indeed groove with quite the light touch. His approach to drumming with Crim is intentional, not a result of any limitations on his abilities or technique. Peace, Frank Pfau ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 26 Dec 2001 13:09:21 From: scottst at ohsu dot edu (Scott Steele) Subject: Should he get Frame by Frame? >Since I have the following live material by KC already: "The Great Deceiver", "The Nightwatch", and "Absent Lovers", would you recommend it even worthwhile even getting FbF, particularly with regard to the live stuff? Frame by Frame will be somewhat redundant when you own all the KC records ever released - but what a colossal investment that has been over these last 30 years, eh? The live disk is still a pleasant (and very concise) overview of the live history of the band (except that the Islands band didn't make the cut - but what would I take off that disk in favor of anything else? I'd be hard pressed to take anything off that disk). I still enjoy the box because it has good one-disk overviews of the studio outputs of each period of Crimson. >I do plan to procure a copy of "Epitaph" and also "USA" when it becomes available, so I was just wondering if I would miss anything with regard to the live material by not getting FbF. If the live disk is your only motivation for purchasing the box set, I would not do so. In this day and age, after making the purchases that you metion, it seems that you are well on your way to compiling your own "Crimson's Live Hits" on CD-R. >I used to have a cassette of the original two album release "A Young Persons Guide to King Crimson", and I remember the alternate version of "I Talk to the Wind" with Judy Dyble on vocals. Is it possible to get that particular recording on any CD that you know of (excepting bootlegs, which I don't even bother with)? The Brondesbury Tapes, on Voiceprint Records? I do not think it is part of anything that is currently on release by DGM. - S. np: Julian Snow Trio, Economics scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 26 Dec 2001 16:24:10 From: Throatspro at aol dot com Subject: Sid Smith Book In issue 923, Robert Bennett posted that his copy of the Sid Smith hardcover was signed by "Michael Giles, Peter Giles, John Wetton, David Cross, Tony Levin, Bill Bruford, Jamie Muir, and Ian Wallace, as well as the author." Curiously, I ordered two copies of the hardcover, and while most of these illuminaries are represented on my bookplates, neither of my copies were signed by either Mr. Wetton or Mr. Cross, though they do bear the signature of Mr. Ian MacDonald. (My #s, incidentally, are 92 and 196.) What's the story here? Andy other variants I should be aware of? The book is very nice indeed, but now I can't help feeling short-changed by a signature! : ( Tim Lucas ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 27 Dec 2001 00:03:19 From: trumpethead at worldnet dot att dot net (Bruce Friedman) Subject: trio tune Hello, I was at the K.C. concert in Los Angeles in November 2001 (thereabouts). I'm wondering if anyone can tell me about the trio tunes played during the encore. (Fripp w/bass and drums) One had a synth (mellotron like chords). The other one was the one I'm trying to locate on CD. Fripp played guitar, in a somewhat random sounding style, throwing notes around the room, so to speak. The rhythm section simply (and nicely) vamped behind him. Is this tune recorded anywheres? I've never heard Fripp play like that. I don't own Level Five yet. Although the tune was not announced as 'new', perhaps it's on that CD? If not, where? Thanks, Bruce Friedman Los Angeles ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 27 Dec 2001 10:32:50 From: stephenm at multcolib dot org (Stephen Mahoney) Subject: Bowie(Darly Hall & Peter Gabriel) and fripp? > In a recent article in RollingStone.com, Bowie talks about leaving Virgin > and forming his own ISO label: > > As for the follow-up to Hours, Bowie has been working with longtime > collaborator Tony Visconti on the album in New York City. ISO will also be > the home for other acts that Bowie will add to the roster. "I want to keep > the whole experience at the human level," Bowie said. "To characterize ISO, > I think I would use guitarist Robert Fripp's phrase and describe it as > aiming to be 'a small, mobile, intelligent unit.'" > > Now if he would only get together again with Fripp and collaborate > on a record... > > Bob I will say this for bowie he continues to be brave and challanging into his 50's. After listening to the BeeB recordings however, that early era late 60's early 70's is gone- his voice is just not there... its very sad. But I agree - it would benefit both fripp and bowie to collaborate...maybe even bringing peter gabriel and daryl hall back with fripp for a "reunion" of sorts... By the way Gentle Giant at the BBC is incredible if you havent heard it! Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 27 Dec 2001 10:42:26 From: stephenm at multcolib dot org (Stephen Mahoney) Subject: KC done by the four Finnish cellists After hearing once again Apocalyptica doing their beautiful renditions of Metallica tunes I was wondering if these Finnish lads ever considered doing an album of KC tunes( Red and LTIA I, III would be great!) or- how about collaborating with KC? I can see it now ... KC unplugged.... It would be much better than some conservative symphony trying their take on Fripp and co.! Stephen(who watched Time Bandits for the millionth time and STILL thinks Terry Gilliam is a genuis!!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 27 Dec 2001 21:51:17 From: spearman at hotmail dot com (Spear man) Subject: reich's electric counterpoint Greetings Crimnologists; >In ET 922 Greg Danielak compared Steve Reich's Electric Counterpoint to Fripp's interlocking guitar playing. I have noticed the same thing when I first heard it too. The following info is from the cd liner notes. It was commissioned in 1987 by the Brooklyn Academy of Music's Next Wave Festival . The guitarist is Pat Metheny and consists of ten guitars and two basses with an eleventh guitar played live over the tape.< Exactly how I saw it when Steve Reich presented Electric Counterpoint live--one guitarist (sadly not Pat Metheny--sorry have forgotten who played the 11th guitar live) interlocking with, um, well, tape--not exactly live like a KC League of Crafty Guitarists performance, but reminiscent of RF's Frippertronics in an acoustic sorta way. np Steve Reich--Drumming ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 27 Dec 2001 23:50:35 From: ecerb at indra dot com (Elaine C. Erb) Subject: Various thoughts on a winter night I was catching up with some of the recent posts and noted the commentary on the price of CDs. While I agree that the price seems high, I do recognize that they are a good deal compared to what I paid for records as a kid. How come they are "cheaper" today? Well mostly because Mariah Carey is going to sell a lot more units than bands did 20 years ago. There's more people out there willing to drop the money and yes, the big artists really do carry most labels. I think on Peter Gabriel's Real World label, Afro Celt Sound System is aiding the careers of a lot of other musicians. Certainly it's easy enough to make a CD these days, which makes my job of going through the music that much harder. I always will fault a band for putting out great music and not putting together a decent looking package because at a radio station where I see 100+ CDs a week, I won't look at the trashy looking ones. (Though I am still contemplating the appropriate scenario for the Randall Terry CD I got today. Yes, it is THAT Randall Terry from Operation Oppressyou.) For DGM artists, I do know that the bands essentially buy the CDs back from the label at $5 a pop. That means a band is making $10 on each disc they sell, and yes, for most of these artists, it is the source of their income on a tour. I'll confess that my music purchasing went from around 60 discs a year before I worked at a radio station to about 6 a year now that I do. Lots of labels are very generous in what they send out, so it's not that I am short of music at home any more, I just get to be more selective on what I actually spend money on. And so I kick myself for NOT having purchased Level 5 at the show in Denver. Try as I might, we don't get a free copy of that for our radio station. Guess I'll have to go spin that Hector Zazou/Sandy Dillon CD some more! ;-) BTW, I have heard the new Tony Levin album and I think it is his best solo effort since World Diary. there's a fun mix of music, including the cover song that you only recognize for about ten seconds(I won't give that away yet.) I especially like the Peter Gabriel song, Dog One, as well as the throbbing feel of Ooze. I think the advance release listed the street date as February so keep your ears out! Here's my top music list for the year: 1. Spearhead Stay Human Six Degrees 2. Jocelyn Pook Untold Things RealWorld 3. Bob Brozman/Tokashi Hirayasu Nankuru Naisa World Music Network 4. Nick Cave No More Shall We Part Reprise 5. Simon Shaheen & Qantara Blue Flame Ark 21 6. Brian Eno/J Peter Schwalm Drawn From Life Astralwerks 7. Hector Zazou/Sandy Dillon 12(Las Vegas is Cursed) First World 8. David Byrne Look Into the Eyeball Virgin 9. Orlando Cachaito Lopez CD World Circuit 10. Hakim The Lion Roars Mondo Melodia 11. Manu Chao Proxima Estacion, Esperanza Virgin 12. Hamster Theatre Carnival Detournement Cuneiform 13. Baaba Maal Missing You Palm Pictures 14. Aterciopelados Gozo Pederosa BMG EC Erb www.kgnu.org No more wars, no more bloodshed. Peace unto you. Shalom, salaam,forever. -Menachem Begin ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 28 Dec 2001 10:40:50 From: ibizabar at mindspring dot com (Brian Kelley) Subject: GG&F Metamorphosis vinyl vs. Brondesbury Tapes CD -- same thing??? I have a copy of the GG&F Metamorphosis on vinyl, which is the unreleased "Brondesbury tapes" from '67-68. This is apparently a limited edition pressing of 1000 vinyl copies (of which I have #476). I bought it at a record show back in August for $28 (which I was assured was a very good deal!) Now on ebay, there is presently a "supposed" CD version of this same album entitled "Giles Giles & Fripp - Brondesbury Tapes 1968". I say "supposed" because I had no idea that it was ever put onto CD (since the dealer at that time said it had never been pressed to CD). The seller states that it is INDEED an "official release" and NOT a CD-R copy. But I just wanna make sure... Does anybody know of the authenticity of this GG&F compilation actually existing on CD? Surely it would be from the UK, as was the case for my vinyl Metamorphosis. Whereas my vinyl copy was 7 tracks on Side 1 and 6 tracks on Side 2 (total 13), this Brondesbury Tapes CD has 21 tracks -- eight more that aren't on my version -- including Plastic Pennies and Passages of Time. If anybody can give me an idea about the authenticity of this CD version, I would really appreciate it. The item can be found at this link: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1499870910 I dunno... judge for yourself. To me, the supplied picture for the CD sleeve looks practically like one that could have easily been done on a computer with Photoshop or CorelDraw or something. It's the same photograph used on the Metamorphosis album, but reduced in size with a green border and the text in a cheesy san-serif font. Check it out! It's mainly the fact that even though I bought the vinyl, I haven't had a working turntable in over 7 years. I just bought it because of the TRUE authenticity and uniqueness of it - plus the fact it was a Limited Edition series, of course ;) Thanks. Peace and Cat Food, Brian Krimso ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 28 Dec 2001 10:41:05 From: ibizabar at mindspring dot com (Brian Kelley) Subject: Sid Smith's book -- opinions/thoughts Another mention... Arriving just in time for Christmas (on Xmas Eve to be exact) was my copy of Sid Smith's "In The Court of King Crimson". Definitely a must-have for any fan of music biographies, like myself. A very detailed and thorough account of the greatest progressive rock band to ever take the world by storm, as they so did in 1969. It definitely entails Fripp with an outright complexity and cold-heartedness, yet with a strangely endearing quality. Almost like a misunderstood villian with an attractive charisma. My only slight "complaint" (and no offense to you, Sid, at all) is I wish more of the photographs were full-size pages, as opposed to the smaller photos accompanying the text on any given page. It's just that when you shrink down a photo, you lose a bit of detail and lose a little bit of luster. I know maybe Sid had a limit set by his publishers at Helter Skelter to keep his book at a maximum page length or whatever. Or maybe it was just the style it was decided to be displayed. Hey, this fine, well-documented and accountative bio is 1000 times better than not having a Crimso bio at all, right?!! :) My finest point I must address is his writing style. Sid Smith is a very talented and deep-thinking writer. He also has a very rich vocabulary of words and diction, some of which I have never heard before. But he doesn't get too overly-wordy in his sentences, though they may be very saturated with heavy verbage or what have you. He definitely gives very detailed introspection about Mr. Fripp, both in his words, and in Fripp's. The bitter period during the Lizard sessions with Fripp and Haskell about put me at the edge of the seat. And poor Mel Collins, whom was practically reduced to tears with Fripp rejecting one of Mel's musical ideas. The accounts from members past and present definitely paint a candid picture of their musical expectations which had to be met, alot of times in anguish. Still, there were many funny stories too. Such is the case with Bruford's mockery of calling S&BB "Braless and Slightly Slack" (hee!) Nonetheless, S&BB is still one of my fav all-time KC albums. And Jamie Muir. Maaaan, that guy was a trip!!! Way over the top during that time. There's just so much more to mention, but I don't want to give anything else away here. You truly have to read it for yourself. The documentary style of this book is way overqualified or complex for any "Behind the Music" story. Same would surely hold true for Yes, too! ;) But definitely support Sid with his many devoted and passionate years of writing his heart and soul into the most awesome progressive rock band biography ever written. To borrow from Roy Harper, "Hats Off to Sid Smith"!!!! :) Brian Krimso ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 28 Dec 2001 18:03:09 From: landerson7 at nyc dot rr dot com (Ling & Emory) Subject: New Damage Differences Anyone notice that there are a few differences between the David Sylvian-mixed Damage and the old "Limited Edition" Fripp-mixed version? Well, an obvious difference is the replacement of Darshan (Road to Graceland) with Jean the Birdman. But a less obvious difference is that the great Fripp solos (the first at 2:34 or so) in 20th Century dreaming are different. Actually, it looks as if what Sylvian has in his version is the actual solo played during that performance, while I suspect Fripp cut-and-pasted a better solo on top of this performance (I think you can hear the new solos buried under the cut-and-pasted ones if you listen to the old Damage). I find that interesting and somewhat un-Fripplike (I would normally have believed that the "real" solos were good enough to merit Fripp not tampering with the live recording.) But I do believe that the solos that were removed were some of Fripp's very best. There may be other differences, but I haven't had time to sit down and listen carefully to all the songs yet. -Emory ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 28 Dec 2001 11:41:50 From: erikv at vargaresearch dot com (Erik Varga) Subject: GIG REVIEW: Setlist for 8/7/01 For anyone interested, here's the setlist for 8/7/01 KING CRIMSON August 7th, 2001 Paramount, Seattle, WA USA Dangerous Curves ConstruKction Of Light The World's My Oyster Soup Kitchen Floor Wax Museum Level Five Deception Of The Thrush Red Elephant Talk Larks' Tongues In Aspic IV / Coda ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #925 ********************************