Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #922 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 922 Saturday, 22 December 2001 Today's Topics: Phish & Crimson Re: Level Five vs. Larks' V RE: Fripp & Lloyd's of London Micheal Sheehan's Straw Socialism / Anarchism / King Crimsonism Trey Gunn in Mexico! The nature of a real fan EP price alaska / concert merchandise Origins of Fripp's pattern guitar work? new home for Jam Lab The ubiquitous Mr. Clifford Gordon Haskell's How Wonderful You Are T.Lev, Bonham, KCC, Level 5 EP, Yes and seasons greetings. Drivers Eyes/Hyde Park Set list/Thankyou/Girls The price of the Level 5 CD Kathy's reply to Groovy Wounded POV; ET or Ytsejam? Kathy Ottersten's Re: toMr. Groovy's "$15 CDs are expensive?? What a JOKE!" cd costs- shut up already best cd of 2001? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:02:52 -0500 From: david_johnston at platts dot com Subject: Phish & Crimson Hey, all! As a longtime Crimson phan -- excuse me, fan -- who is also a hardcore Phish phan, it's been interesting to see the recent threads on the two bands, especially since I've long noted how Trey (Anastasio, not Gunn) was influenced by Fripp. Trey frequently (though not always) has that rigid, controlled, economical-of-motion Frippian picking style and during the last few years of Phish's run he was making more and more use of delay-loops (to some Phish phans' dismay). Phish is currently "on hiatus." Having suffered through Crimson's 11-year 1980s-1990s hiatus, I can only hope Phish's is shorter! As has been noted, one of the main links between the two bands is "Dave's Energy Guide," which is a very Crimson-like instrumental that sounds a lot like much of KC's Discipline album. And equally heavy delay-loop jams popped up during a number of other songs, perhaps most notably an extended, set-ending soundscape at the end of the 12/31/95 Mike's Song and another during at the end of the 5/7/94 "Makisupa Policeman." Dave's is one of Phish's oldest songs, appearing as early as 1985, but it was seldom played. There is also a "Crimson Jam" listed for Phish's 3/27/87 show. For more background on Dave's and Phish delay loop jams than you might ever want, read: http://www.phish.net/PhishFAQ/sdaves.html But, having heard a few versions of Dave's, I'd have to say it's a stretch to call them "Discipline," or even "Discipline Jam" because it really isn't that song. It's also worth noting the Phish song "Brian and Robert" is a very Eno-esque song many believe is named after Messrs. Eno and Fripp. I forget the details on this, but I seem to recall reading a Phish-board message (or band statement) saying something about Fripp reaching out to Trey/Phish, but their respective calendars were too busy. The same thing happened when Neil Young contacted Phish about working together after they did a monster "Down by the River" together at one of Neil's Bridge Concerts. Anyone interested in setting up CD trades to hear these Phish songs can write me at nycedave at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:23:38 -0500 From: Randall dot Hammill at hartfordlife dot com Subject: Re: Level Five vs. Larks' V Tim Siefkes pointed out the link in the progression of titles with FraKctured, however Larks' IV may not have been the fourth link. In the late eighties Robert was asked to do the soundtrack to the movie "Neuromancer." The movie was later shelved, but Robert mentioned in an interview at one point that he was working on some new material for King Crimson including part of Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part IV. I don't know how much of that piece of music made it into what we now know as Larks' IV, if any. I would have expected to hear some of the themes pop up in the ProjeKcts if Robert had been working on it before. But then again, there is a lot of ProjeKct material that I have not heard, and both FraKctured and Larks' IV are complicated enough that they may not have worked in such an improvisational environment. Robert has indicated in the past that the name of a piece is important, and to a large degree it names itself. So although FraKctured had originally been titled Larks' V, I don't think that it shares the same musical characteristics with the other Larks' pieces that Level V does, which is why it was renamed. I think there is a connection between the Larks' progression and Level V. In any event, it is a piece of music that continues to open new music to me each time I listen to it. It was almost overwhelming to hear it in concert before having heard a recording before. Now I want to go catch another show to hear it live again... Randy ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:04:40 -0600 From: Mike Champagne Subject: RE: Fripp & Lloyd's of London Andrew Pitchford asks: >Coda: Marine 475 > > . . . did Robert lose his shirt at Lloyd's or . . . Actually, I believe that whoever was in alleged 'control' of the debacle that EG became, lost Robert's shirt on his behalf (as well as that of every other EG artist of record at the time). IIRC, this was in late 1991, after a season of quite heavy marine losses. Their losses as Lloyd's 'names' led to them not being able to pay artist royalties and, ultimately, selling the entire EG catalogue to Virgin unbeknownst to the artists themselves. Although Robert was apparently growing increasingly unhappy as an EG artist, this may well have been the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back." This info came from the THRAK tour program, among other sources (again, IIRC . . .) This must be documented in the FAQ section, no? Michel J Champagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:59:08 EST From: Ianreyn at aol dot com Subject: Micheal Sheehan's Straw "Larry Flint is right, you guys stink!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:11:08 -0800 From: "Mark Tucker" Subject: Socialism / Anarchism / King Crimsonism First, the background: >>Uh... 15 dollars is too expensive for any cd in the first place. >>Jordan - I think gas is way too expensive. As are eggs, milk, cable TV & >>most everything else. Welcome to the real world! John A.Wilcox. Now, Eric DWP's post and my responses: >The REAL problem, little boys and girls, is the fact that we are all SLAVES >to our repective [sic] governments, and we pay exhorbitant amounts of OUR >money to our looter-masters (the government). All this is equally true of Big Business, wherein most of the price of a CD goes to maintain a bloated rapacious hyper-capitalistic abuse-system. I agree with the critics of pricing and suspect Wilcox hangs somewhere in the middle, what with his resigned defeasance. >Imagine having your tax burden cut in half. That would amount to having 20% >- 50% more money in your bank account RIGHT NOW. All of a sudden, a $15 CD >would be a drop in the bucket! Cutting out the fat in Big Business would do the same and the price of a CD would plummet. Also, practicing true capitalism would accomplish the same thing. We say we practice it but we dont. Actually read Adam Smith sometime, dont accept media versions of his theories, or listen to a Noam Chomsky lecture. What we DO practice is a form of Alexander Hamiltons federalism, which even he severely regretted by his death. Smith, as well, saw what business was doing with HIS theories and GREATLY excoriated them. >As soon as you're ready to start voting for someone who truly wants to >break your shackels and restore your country to a place where freedom >reigns, quit your bitching about prices being too high. Alan Keyes will >probably not run for president again. We had our chance. Alan Keyes was as ethical as the best of them, but his problem is that hes a hyper-christian, hence, despite his being heads and shoulders above most of the rest of the pack, still nowhere near as good a choice as Nader or Harry Browne. The humilities he suffered at the hands of the DC police were inexcusable..but then, DC is NOT a state or a true part of America, so I guess they can get away with it (after all, look at animal mayor, Marion Berry). >Now we are left with a collection of would-be socialist masters from whom >to chose for president again in 2004. Not to mention all of the socialist >masters from whom to chose for House Reps and Senators in another year. Allow me to let you in on the most socialistic term ever invented in the history of mankind: democracy. It comes from those indefatigable socialists, the Greeks and means: people (demos) rule (kratos). Now give another thought to your media-conditioned conception of democracy and to your equally media-conditioned conception of socialism. >The fact that Hillary acutally got elected demonstrates the American >public's pathological desire for dominatrix/master politicians who steal >your freedom and your money, and promise to spoon feed you and wipe your >ass. This is true of every country everywhere. In fact, despite its HIDEOUSLY ABUNDANT flaws, this is still, in its populace, the best chance the world has for transcending the ignorances that have plagued it from time immemorial. Americas problem is not its people, who are pretty admirable (and, trust me, Im as big a cynic and America-criticizer as anyone Ive ever known) for the most part, but its rogue federal government and that organs supplicancy to Big Business and multinationalism. >What a weak, pathetic country this has become! While I respect your passion, youre dead wrong. I suspect were going through growing pains and, though highly critical myself, expect the American people to be equal to the task of the many problems well be having in the near future. Granted, it's a coin toss, due to incredible ignorances and sloth. >And then to have someone bitch about CD prices being too high is the >biggest joke I've heard in a VERY long time!! People bitching about being gouged is VERY American, thank God. I agree with them. >Grow up, ya big BABY! Get your head out of your ass! How about a little respect from you first? And to end off on a note re: KC: read some of Fripps highly unusual business ideas (in old issues of Musician magazine, on his earlier release packagings, etc.) (yes, they had a LOT of flaws but also a LOT of great philosophy) and youll see a great syncretic attempt at a merging of capitalism, socialism, and anarchism. Hes one of the few people who was able to humanize the complex subject of immediate economics, taking it from its hidden agendas and returning it to the individual and polity. His enormous respect for the individual and creativity informed his proposed practices, which is where ALL economics MUST start. With that sort of respect, the society cant help but benefit. As Buckminster Fuller proved, we have, in this country (and the rest of the world by extrapolation), the ability to do what io see as inevitable if we ant a truly peaceful society and world: socialize the fundament, capitalize the over-structure, and anarchize the individual. From this, wed enter an age most people cant even imagine. Eric, if you want the key to the entire imbroglio...consider what property actually is. Jean Paul Proudhon was right...unfortunately. -marc- Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 14:06:44 -0800 (PST) From: Eduardo Barredo Subject: Trey Gunn in Mexico! Just a brief note to let all you guys know that "The Trey Gunn Band" will be giving a concert in Mexico City on January 16th, 2002 in Salon 21 at 9:00 pm, the price is $250 pesos. Probably there will be a clinic on 15th. You can find all the information in www.ticketmaster.com.mx. See you there, Regards, ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:31:51 -0600 From: "Sandra J Prow" Subject: The nature of a real fan As some of you know, I've done a lot of ranting about annoying fans lately. I'd like to thank someone though who I think really exemplifies, for me, the type of King Crimson fans I love (and why I love to sell merch and meet you): At the DC concert, my friend purchased a t-shirt for $25, a lot of money. Somewhere along the way, he dropped his shirt in the lobby. We retraced our steps, but alas, no shirt. My friend was quite dismayed. We continued to look, but pretty much resigned ourselves to the loss of the shirt. Suddenly, this guy walks up to us and asks my friend if he lost a shirt! He said he brought it to the merch table. Sure enough, he gets his shirt back. Whoever you are, thanks! You could have had a free $25 shirt. Many fans lately seem to be into getting whatever THINGS they can, the most THINGS they can, for the least amount of effort. It sickens me. Apparently, you were there to enjoy the music. You made my evening. I hope you had a good time. Email me and tell me who you were, if you read this. Sandra ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 00:43:33 +0200 From: Lauri Vanajas Subject: EP price I think 15 dollars isn't that much for an EP. Well...if it was a really short EP, $15 could be a little too much. But think about this: I live in Finland and usually new releases are sold here for about $15-20. I would be glad to buy this EP from the store, even if it was $15. Well, maybe i'll get a credit card some day and order it from DGM or something. Merry Kchristmas to all of you Lauri (Waiting for KC to come here and do a gig some day... is there any light at the end of the tunnel? :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 23:36:08 From: "Spear man" Subject: alaska / concert merchandise >state like Alaska where there is no sales tax. Of >course, dealing with 8 months of winter is the price you pay, but hey, who's >bitchin' about what??< not to mention the annual check from the state of alaska just for living there.... >Thats just another example of my point - Why do bands try to rape their fans? that is WAY too much! most of the money goes to the folks actually selling the merchandise at the shows--not to the bands. --spearman np jamie muir et al--the musical improvisation company Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:10:13 -0800 From: "Greg Danielak" Subject: Origins of Fripp's pattern guitar work? Greetings, I thought this would be a good a place as any to have one of my questions answered, after being a devoted lurker for so many months... okay, so we know how Fripp came about with Frippertronics and Soundscapes... but does anyone out there know how Fripp 'discovered' and materialized his interlocking pattern guitar style i.e. "Discipline"? I heard a piece by minimalist composer Steve Reich the other day entitled 'Electric Counterpoint', and though I don't know what year it is from, has the exact same thing going on - tons of guitars all playing adjoining riffs at different time signatures... very 'Crafty Guitarists'-esque. What inspired or led Fripp to stumble upon the whole interlocking guitar concept? Take care & happy holidays, Greg D. ~We can't go far on enthusiasm, but we don't go far without it.~ R.F. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 02:31:53 -0500 From: "Kurt Angel" Subject: new home for Jam Lab We received much encouragement from FuseNet and ET. V-jams are in the works with players from both lists. Thanks to all who suggested we join an IP forwarding service. We can now be found at www.jamlab.dns2go.com There are new files for anyone to download, jam with, and upload. We will jam with your tracks as well if you post them ftp://jamlab.dns2go.com or mail us a CDR. Name players are more than welcome to post under another name! Yes, Scott, we would love to post some of your fusion work from down under. Some double drumming ProJecKs (required ET reference) could prove interesting. I just got a HandSonic, I'm dying to try out. Tony Marsh posted another V-jam with us in Orlando, FL by way of Texas! Dust off your ax and let the V-jams begin. Kurt Angel http://www.mp3.com/thejamlab ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 04:29:43 -0800 (PST) From: Ashley Collins Subject: The ubiquitous Mr. Clifford In ET #920, Jordan Clifford wrote: > Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:36:28 -0500 > From: "Jordan Clifford" > Subject: bootleg >snip> > you know what? im not trying to convince anyone. >snip> Immediately after which he wrote: > Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:47:31 -0500 > From: "Jordan Clifford" > Subject: bootleg site/censoring > > >Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I'm sure some readers will flame Toby for > >censoring the URL out of Jordan Clifford's email > > Oh I totally understand why it was censored. >snip> Hot on the heels of which came: > Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:55:32 -0500 > From: "Jordan Clifford" > Subject: merch prices > > Thats just another example of my point - Why do bands try to rape their > fans? >snip> And then he finished his piece with a florish: > Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:59:57 -0500 > From: "Jordan Clifford" > Subject: enough about the cd price, my god >snip> > How about everyone gives it a rest? >snip> Stunningly good suggestion, dear boy. Ashley Collins ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:02:35 EST From: Belewp at cs dot com Subject: Gordon Haskell's How Wonderful You Are If you're an American like me and can't wait for the stateside release of this tune, go to audiogalaxy.com and download it. Gordon's song has popped up in more than a few people's shared folders. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:40:27 +0000 From: "lawrence moseley" Subject: T.Lev, Bonham, KCC, Level 5 EP, Yes and seasons greetings. Hi all, Just been reading several days worth of ET.... Medal please. I must say this list was very, um, entertaining. I wonder just what the more demented posts that do not make the list look like. (Email me privately on that one Mr Moderator, if you want...) All that time I thought T.Lev was pretty good with his instruments, interesting debate topic... Perhaps the originator of that one meant he did not like TL's music rather than the musician. As opposed to a person and (IMO) unjustified slur on the artistic integrity of Tony. There's lots of music I hear and respect but do not necessarily enjoy which is no reason for me to slag anything off. I just do not like pop entrepeneurs trying to con me, or to con anyone for that matter. Speaking of ironies (as some try...), something I do have to get a hold of as well, T-Lev doing a cover of 'Black Dog' with him doing the vox bitz on stick. (instinct says WOOOOWWWW!!!!) Comparisons to a certain JPJ doing the same thing. Now that is ironic and neither of them in KC. Yet. Still. BTW the chap who said something about John Bonham being the worst drummer of all time or some such ...(I enjoyed the rest of your post until that bit where it went downhill very rapidly)....I can only go from a non-drummimg perspective but how does one conclude that JB earns that lowest of all status when his drumming is a)the most sampled in trendy music history, even more amazing considering he had not recorded an officially released beat since 1979. The last live recording was 7/7/80. b) James Brown's (3) drummers stood, watched and still wondered how Bonzo managed his incredible grooves. c) The readership of Drummer magazine, who are more expert on Bonzo's abilities than me, voted him No 2 of the Century, or millennium, what the hell, it's all good timing, behind Buddy Rich. d) Certain former band mates of Bonzo's including recent KC tour inclusion alumnus JPJ seemed to think he was pretty good. Unless Page Plant and Jones somehow misjudged Bonzo's abilities. Mind you he was also No2 behind Karen Carpenter once. Maybe Jimi Hendrix was wrong as well about Bonzo but who am I to comment on such musical alumni... e) As bootlegs evince, Bonzo was human and prone to the (very)occasional lapse in energy but...not much. And those Europe 73 experiences... f)Keith Moon (contemporary and lunatic beyond compare)is on (unofficial) record as saying JB is the best drummer living in the world today (said in 1977 when both were alive). g) Bonzo never claimed to be a technician which makes his achievements all that more remarkable. Right, enough of that. It's not a personality thing either... Thoughts on The KCCC. Would it not be most excellent if individual releases could be made available? I would love the new 2001 CD. The latest incarnations of KC (and that PX cd) provide such breathtaking music. Alas the parting of 78 quid is a bit much at the moment for me for some CDs I may not necessarily want. Never mind I still have Heavy Construction as one of my (still) favourites... Possibly dead thread but I saw recently former KC guest Jon Anderson on stage with his band ...YES!! and with orchestral accompaniement they were amazing. Great sound, great performance (I was a bit lukewarm reaction wise to the 'Don't Go' song...not a title to be touring if you're encouraging audience attendance... The orchestra were fun, the violinist at the back waving his cigarette lighter (spontaneous) during ...oops forgotten the song but I thought it (the lighter waving fiddler) was amusing. Their orchestral versions were significant. There was a keyboard player, augmenting (?) the orchestra... We were warned, no photos by a security type. Fine by me, I was not there to snap, besides the tour program did a better job than I could...still did not stop the bloke next to me from unleashing a blast...no wonder KC do not like this, how intrusive...I was right next to the ingrate as well... JA was in fine humour and superb voice, telling us he had trouble remembering lyrics, giving a sheet to an unprepared Chris Squire to hold who did the natural (expected?)thing and threw them away, much to JA's and the audience's amusement...Steve Howe was stellar at his performance...most of the guitars in the world and his hard worked roadie kept a track of them all... I wonder will there be Club releases of JPJ performances? I hope so. But then again Jennifer Lopez is also on my wish list for Xmas stocking filler... You lucky Americans, getting sick of hearing 'Red' live...oh the suffering... please will KC do some UK performances, while we're more or less young and compos mentis enough to want and enjoy it...If Adrian (GREAT GUITAR man...) is feeling vocally weak, what about that David Sylvian fellow...he would be welcome to my ears anyway..dunno what he would do during those improvs...tell the techs when the have to turn the yapes over? If Level 5 is an EP does that mean 1 cd of Heavy Construction is an EP? What about those pre-CD releases Tick Tock (sic) to Beat (there's any irony there, can you spot it Alanis fans...), are they now EPs? I am still dying to hear this Level 5 plus others and all these reviews have me...well...slavering...DGM have not shipped it yet...(pause while my toys get thrown from pram...). Hope Josette keeps it up...the posts of hers that is... Anyway season of good will unlike the rest of the year apparently... Right, sorry for long post congratulations to the winner for reading this, have a good break merry christmas and New Years to everyone. Lawrence. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:39:48 +0000 (GMT) From: "N.J.WHITTAKER" Subject: Drivers Eyes/Hyde Park Set list/Thankyou/Girls A couple a things, 1. In response to the query of whether Ian McDonald's 'Drivers Eyes' is any gd: I found it to be an extremely tepid and disappointing release. Depends on what you're into & maybe I didn't let it 'grow' on me but it was a bit too safe & uninteresting for me. 2. Purely out of interest I was wondering if anyone could tell me KC's Hyde Park- Stones-69 setlist? 3. A month or two ago I lodged an urgent appeal for any US readers to ship me a box of 'Lucky Charms' cereal. I was overwhelmed by the kind offers & I offer in return, once again, a huge thankyou to all who responded. Marek90 sent me a box but my e-mails are not reaching him, so to Marek90 thanks ever so much & let me know if there is anything I can ever do for you in return . . . Sorry for meandering away from KC temporarily, but I think everyone on ET should feel proud that 1 of its readers felt able to make such a personal request on the pages of this newsletter. 4. Finally, girl KC fans? Awesome! If there are any around Surrey, England on Saturday night . . . ? Candle-lit dinner to Larks . . . 1? I've never met a female KC fan. Mind you, living in deepest, leafy Surrey I've never actually met another KC fan male or female . . . Cheers, Nick Whittaker. np: FUNKADELIC 'Maggot Brain'. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:37:38 -0500 (EST) From: lbh2 at cornell dot edu Subject: The price of the Level 5 CD While I appreciate the historical context that some have provided, I take a different view on the price of the Level 5 CD. Basically, it goes like this. While a 40 or 50 or 60 dollar ticket price may seem steep to folks, when you factor in all the costs of touring, these guys are barely breaking even. I'm not in a position to say if they're making a small profit (i.e. paycheck) or incurring a small loss. In my view (ok, maybe I was swayed by Patricia Fripp during the June 2000 12th & P shows), buying tour merchandise is a way of saying, "Hey thanks. I'm glad you all took the trouble to come here and play for us. I understand that ticket prices rarely cover the cost of staging the performance, and I'm happy to toss in a few mor bucks for this lovely souvenir." Kinda like the PBS fundraising drives, when $50 bucks gets you a $3 tote bag. Robert, Trey, Ade & Pat are amongst the finest musicians living. They play with integrity and ferocity in a marketplace that rewards neither. I felt honored to pay $15 for the Level 5 CD. AND...this goes trebly for the guys you see in local bars who are really scratching it out. If you go to a show, and enjoy the music, buy something, a CD, a T-Shirt, a button. There are very few U2's, Madonna's or J-Lo's out there. Every other musician is enduring the indignities of the road and barely getting by. If they make you happy, do something to see that they get paid. B___ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:13:55 EST From: SHMODDDDD at aol dot com Subject: Kathy's reply to Groovy Hello, to all the sane ETer's, Thank you Kathy, for trying to put the pig in his pen. Yes, Groovy's rant was offensive, had nothing to do with KC, and was plainly ridiculous. Your response was so much more polite than Groovy (Groovy? Yeah, right.) deserved. Maybe Mr. Groovy missed the lessons of the '80's while chanting "Reagan! Reagan!" and snorting coke in his BMW. Reasoning with psychosis----scary. Thanks again---T ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:54:52 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Wounded POV; ET or Ytsejam? >With all the collective posts by wounded pov, damn it, I just know I'm right in throwing up these guide lines on how to best make use of Elephant-Talk! Bill Messinger, you are right on. Thanks for your warped perspective. >If the ideas you're reading somehow seem relevant, then your basic value system has been stimulated and new brain cells are sprouting! If you experience burning or discharge, stop immediately and tune in to a Clear Channel station. In a nutshell, to get the most out of E-T, you've got to get laid at least once a day and ride a snow board. This is the best thing I've read on ET in a long, long time. >Is this Elephant Talk or Ytsejam? Is there a difference? Can there be a difference? - S. np: Gone Orchestra, Space Fishing EP ($15) scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:00:51 EST From: Inturmoil at aol dot com Subject: Kathy Ottersten's Re: toMr. Groovy's "$15 CDs are expensive?? What a JOKE!" First of all, let us all read this quote, pick our jaws up and re-read it..>> ). After the standard deduction, credits for children, mortgages, and other items, the average household actually pays only 45% of their numerical tax burden (U.S. Govt figures).<< hmmm. only 45%. ONLY 45 %?????!!! She said only 45%. If we ONLY play 45%, what is more fair, 50% 60% 90%??? Man, you rich liberals really slay me. ONLY 45%. I can't believe it. I guess I'll vote for (D) (d is for donkey, aka ass) since I ONLY pay 45%. Any American who thinks its ONLY 45% please move to Europe, or China, or Cuba. Those governments more suit you than America's does. Trust me, if there was a more capitalist place to live than America, I'd live there. Since there isn't and there ARE more socialist / communist countries in the world than America, PLEASE go there. If the system is better there, GO, don't change ours. You Frickin tax lovers have done enough damage (Including, Trey, Pat, and Adrian). Sorry, I just couldn't believe it. . . .ONLY 45%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jason (The Mustard Seed Florist) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:59:16 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: cd costs- shut up already Now, go to the mall, and take a look at CD prices. For new releases, they run $14.99 - $17.99 PLUS TAX, what a useless thing to say considering ive said it maybe 2 or 3 times already, and try 14.99-18.99, not 17.99. I KNOW THAT IN TODAYS WORLD 15 DOLLARS FOR A GREAT CD ISNT THAT MUCH COMPARED TO 18.99 FOR A CD THAT ISNT AS GOOD. THE POINT IS, 18.99 IS WAY TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE IN THE FIRST PLACE so , trying to say that 15 dollars is good based on, wht i consider to be an outragous 18.99 isnt saying much at all because the base number is too high. ALL IM SAYING IS I SIMPLY THINK THINGS COST TOO MUCH and when i can avoid it I choose not to pay for them. I did buy this CD because I decided it was worth it. BUt that doesnt justify the cost of it, or the cost of cds today> ENOUGH ALREADY! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 03:24:39 From: "alexis rondeau" Subject: best cd of 2001? The end of the year is aproching. I thought it would be the right moment to come up with a "best cd of the year sort of list" as what a KC fan likes, another one possibly will! I'm not shure if some of them actually came out in late 2000 but they all came to my attention this year. So there you go: 1-Phantomas, Director's Cut 2-Jorane, 16mm 3-King Crimson, Level Five 4-Bill Lawsell, Filmworks 2000 5-Ani DiFranco, Reveling and Reckoning There are a few cd's wich I am highly anticipating but that I haven't been able to put my hands on yet. So the PBM&M Xtrackts&Artefackts and this Tomahak cd by this Tomahak band featuring the yelling of Mike Patton might have been on the list?.. See ya. Alx Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #922 ********************************