Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #920 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 920 Tuesday, 18 December 2001 Today's Topics: Where to find Sid's new book $15 CDs are expensive?? What a JOKE! Musicians play to the final double bar Fripp Acknowledges Crowd! Read All About It! after the gig/pop quiz/new acronym KC to KK? Re: EP Price Re: Detroit 1971 Re: Math Rock? NOT a fan, an enthusiast The straw that broke the camel's back Level 5; Phish/KC; kids who like KC Level Five CD bootleg bootleg site/censoring merch prices enough about the cd price, my god My choice; Sid's book; Fripp w/Satriani; Don Ellis; Sid's book GIG REVIEW: DEC 11-14 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 14:37:18 -0700 From: "Moshier, John T" Subject: Where to find Sid's new book Greetings, ETers, Many thanks to John Trevethan for posting the link in #918 to Amazon UK for Sid's book. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, I couldn't get the link to work. If any of you have the same problem, I was able to get the book ordered from Amazon UK by going to Amazon.com, clicking the "International" link which led to a link to the UK store. Once there I searched "Books" for King Crimson, and up it popped. It costs L15.00 plus L4.95 for airmail shipping to the US. When I visited England in July 2000, the exchange rate was about $1.60 = L1.00. If its still in that range, getting the book now will cost about $32.00 US. Perhaps a little pricey for a paperback by US standards, but I'm viewing it as a Christmas present to myself. Ordering was a snap. From my email address, Amazon already had my shipping info from prior US orders. It took less time than writing this post. Thanks again, John. The info in your post put me on the right track. Happiest of Holidays to all in ETland. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:24:03 EST From: EricVWDC at aol dot com Subject: $15 CDs are expensive?? What a JOKE! In a message dated 12/16/01 4:26:38 AM, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes: >Jordan Clifford writes: > >> 2 - $15.00 wasn't expensive for the tour "EP." The EP is over 45 min >> long - easily as long as many full releases! >>Right on! > >>Uh... 15 dollars is too expensive for any cd in the first place. EPs, >which >>arent full length cds, should be much less. While the KC EP happens to >be >>longer then most full length cds, that isnt the point. the point is 15 >is >>too expensive in the first place. > >Jordan - > I think gas is way too expensive. As are eggs, milk, cable TV & most >everything else. Welcome to the real world! > >John A.Wilcox This is an argument I love, coming from Americans or Europeans. The REAL problem, little boys and girls, is the fact that we are all SLAVES to our repective governments, and we pay exhorbitant amounts of OUR money to our looter-masters (the government). Imagine having your tax burden cut in half. That would amount to having 20% - 50% more money in your bank account RIGHT NOW. All of a sudden, a $15 CD would be a drop in the bucket! Oh, and by the way, don't forget that the vendors at the KC concerts weren't charging sales tax. In essence, you bought a $13.50 CD and paid sales tax on it. Now, go to the mall, and take a look at CD prices. For new releases, they run $14.99 - $17.99 PLUS TAX, unless, of course, you are fortunate enough to live in a state like Alaska where there is no sales tax. Of course, dealing with 8 months of winter is the price you pay, but hey, who's bitchin' about what?? As soon as you're ready to start voting for someone who truly wants to break your shackels and restore your country to a place where freedom reigns, quit your bitching about prices being too high. I was paying $15.00 for CDs back in 1985. Alan Keyes will probably not run for president again. We had our chance. Now we are left with a collection of would-be socialist masters from whom to chose for president again in 2004. Not to mention all of the socialist masters from whom to chose for House Reps and Senators in another year. The fact that Hillary acutally got elected demonstrates the American public's pathological desire for dominatrix/master politicians who steal your freedom and your money, and promise to spoon feed you and wipe your ass. What a weak, pathetic country this has become! And then to have someone bitch about CD prices being too high is the biggest joke I've heard in a VERY long time!! Grow up, ya big BABY! Get your head out of your ass! -Groovy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:19:35 -0800 (PST) From: Jeremy Lakatos Subject: Musicians play to the final double bar > Jazz great Tommy Flanagan passed away not long ago in > his 70s, and he continued to tour and record up to > the end. BB King still tours. I'm sure there are > dozens (if not hundreds) of examples of blues and > jazz musicians touring into their 60s and 70s. Andres Segovia, the classical guitarist, played as long as he lived. At the end, he needed to be helped onto stage and into his chair, and someone had to hand his guitar to him. But once he had his guitar, his fingers could do their stuff. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:37:39 -0500 From: "Mike Miller" Subject: Fripp Acknowledges Crowd! Read All About It! I apologize for posting more about the Level 5 show I saw in Greensburgh, PA on Dec. 2, but I feel obligated to mention something I forgot about in the last post. Everyone keeps saying that when the first set and encores at the shows they saw were over, Fripp beat a hasty retreat back through the shadows, while Ade, Trey, and Pat came into the light to acknowledge applause. This is very contradictory to what I and anyone else who was at the show saw. First of all, Fripp was in great spirits, with he, Ade, and Pat particularly exchanging smiles, shrugs, laughs and nods the ENTIRE show. After the main set was over, Ade, Pat, and Trey came out to the front of the stage in the light and acknowledged our applause, while Fripp walked to the edge of the stage in front of his gear (still not in any kind of bright light, but the house lights along with the powerful lights on the other three were certianly illuminating him), put his hands on his brow as you would if you were shielding you eyes from the sun, and proceeded to look all around the hall, up into the balcony, lingering on one section of people, then he would look at the rest of the band, then back at us, just checking us out. It almost seemed like he was looking for somebody he knew... this went on for at least a minute or two, then he walked off WITH the rest of the band (albiet in front of) after the set and both encores. I could be mistaken about one of those times, but I know he did this at least twice, and it was really great. So I suppose we were just very privilaged (sp?) to be at that particular show, and might I add the new material was even better than the versions on the Level 5 ep. In ET # 918 Josh Chasin wrote: >"Crimson's set was a little shorter than the last time I saw them (Town > >Hall >earlier in the year), but more impactful, perhaps as a result of the > >slight >abbreviation. I mean, it didn't drag, not for a second. It was like, >bam-bam-bam, encore, whoa." Although I hadn't seen them before, I totally agree with the main point of that statment. There was not a single dull moment - just a white hot fire onstage for about 1 hour, kind of like listening to Mahavishnu's Birds of Fire - total intensity. Anyway, I just had to mention that Fripp thing. Did anyone else in attendance notice this? Peace, Mike Miller ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:22:51 -0600 From: Dan Comfort Subject: after the gig/pop quiz/new acronym A. About being "snubbed" by the band after the gig: I once had the privilege of driving writer Jane Yolen to and from a speech here in Minneapolis. At supper and on the road to the gig she was lively and vivacious. Her speech was a big hit, and she was superb in the question and answer session and during the book signing. On the way back to her hotel she was almost comatose. She had just put out so much energy during the evening she had nothing left, not even for conversation. So when you feel snubbed by a musician after a gig, remember that while you were having fun the musicians were working extremely hard; and they may have simply given their all to the performance. B. Pop quiz: Which band leader: 1. Changed the composition and musical style of his group radically from time to time, usually alienating some fans each time. 2. Had trouble scheduling tours because there was too much outside demand for his world-class bass player. 3. Lost another key member of the rhythm section because the leader wanted an electronic sound. and the player preferred the acoustic sound. 4. Was constantly criticized because he wouldn't play older material in concert. 5. and pissed off some fans by playing with his back to the audience? I'm sure you all know the answer is "Miles Davis". (The bass player was Ron Carter; the other musician was Keith Jarrett. Miles said he had his back to the audience because he was conducting.) I hope it is of some comfort to Fripp to realize that some jazz fans could be just as mulish as some prog fans! C. I think acronyms should be pronounceable, so KC's first album really gives me heartburn; "ITCOTCK" indeed! But then I realized if we simply bring each 'T' forward one letter, it becomes a real word: "TIC-TOCK". This strikes me as a very suitable nickname for the album, since time and meter were such a big part of it (and the following albums). By the same logic, Sid Smith's book becomes TIC-TOKC! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:37:15 -0800 (PST) From: Peter McCoy Subject: KC to KK? Kcan we expeKct anytime soon that Mr. Fripp and Kcompany will change the bands name to 'King Kcrimson'? Pete ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 01:45:53 -0500 From: "Kris M" Subject: Re: EP Price >Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:31:41 EST >From: Inturmoil at aol dot com >Subject: Ep price > >I just happily paid 15 bucks plus shipping to dgmusa for the new ep and I >was >happy to do so. I made the choice. No one forced me. >All of you people whining about the price of the ep should not buy it. I >believe you all need an economics lesson------not the kind from a >pointy-headed communist professer, but from REAL LIFE. >I own a flower shop. The Mustard Seed Florist in Gig Harbor, WA. Guess >what? >My roses DO NOT cost me 21.95 per dozen like I charge you. Its called >overhead. I completely agree with this e-mail. What products cost to the seller are no where *near* what the seller must charge the public just to get by and meet the expenses of running a business in the first place. As for the cost of the EP, I don't think it's all that bad. I mean, before the King Crimson concert that I attended on December 5 [and I bought the Level Five EP *and* the tour shirt, for what it's worth], the last time I had been at a real concert was about 1997, when I saw the Barenaked Ladies [Canadian rock group] at Marine Midland Arena in Buffalo. There, I paid $35 US for a t-shirt and about the same for the CD. At the King Crimson concert, a week or so ago, I paid about $25 Canadian for the EP and $40 for the shirt. I didn't worry about those costs. Why? Well, when I paid $70 in the US years ago, for me that's actually more like $100 [I'm Canadian and a US dollar was worth about $1.33 in Canadian then]. At the King Crimson concert, the $65 I spent was $65 to me. There was no comparison - King Crimson was selling cheaper in 2001 than what the Barenaked Ladies charged in 1997! At a concert, you can never expect the costs you'd expect in a store. But the reason for this is simple enough: they only provide these at the concerts, and they need enough to last for all of their tour locations. Pay a bit more, and people will buy a bit less and the merchandise will spread out. And besides that, the fact that these are mostly "limited edition" items [in that they're only available at the concert] is reason enough to charge a bit more. That way, no one will buy it "for the hell of it." If you *really* want it, you'll buy it, even if it does cost a bit extra. Sorry for having to rant about this, but if you think about it, the reasons for the cost are simple enough. You just have to weigh the cost against that item's personal you won't buy it. If you think that the value of the CD to you is far greater than $15 US, you'll buy it. It's really that simple. Kris M [who has been absent for a bit because it's exam season] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:40:27 +1100 From: "Peter Allen" Subject: Re: Detroit 1971 This seems to be a pretty general opinion. Perhaps a candidate for general release? In the midst of all this Collector's Club bounty, it seems a little curmudgeonly to criticize - er, make a suggestion. Am I the only one who is vitally interested in KC live performances, but is not a completist and finds the Club release schedule overpowering? Being able to refuse issues before they are released isn't a solution, since I'm interested in the best/most representative, and don't know at that point. Only KC is in the position to judge that initially, and then Club members later on. If you look at the general releases up to the demise of the 1980s KC, we have Epitaph (1969), Great Deceiver (late 1973/early 1974) and Absent Lovers (1 concert 1984). 1970-1972 is an obvious gap, so is 1981-1983. I may not want the half a dozen or more releases within each of these periods that I could probably get through the Club, but surely some general release representation is warranted? In short, I feel that those interested enough to want live KC releases of any variety, but who are for whatever reason not interested in the sheer quantity available via the Club, are not getting all they need. A more recent obvious gap was late 1995/1996, previously available to Club members and the broadband-enabled (which excludes most private Internet users in Australia), but now nicely covered for us general enthusiasts through the release of the 2CD Vroom Vroom. Peter In Elephant Talk #918 "James J. Hannigan" wrote - > > I would highly recommend the latest club release of Detroit 1971. > Probably the best concert I've heard by this band. And one can hear > Fripp telling the crowd "old" tunes like Epitaph won't be done by the > band - Jim Dr Peter Allen (pda at melbpc dot org dot au) Melbourne PC User Group ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:24:17 +0100 From: Dario Tortora Subject: Re: Math Rock? >Why do I ask? Our band (Fractal) and some other KC influenced >bands are playing a monthly series of gigs and we are struggling >with what to call it. Prog rock? Math Rock? We have already tried >"Strange Complex Music" and "File Under Other..." > >The next gig is on Feb 2nd, i.e. 02/02/02 - and that sounds like >a good excuse for some Math Rock on its own (in 6/8 time I guess). > >Suggestions welcome... > >Adrian >http://www.frakctal.com (we had to add the K as fractal was taken, honest :-) Well I don't know anything about "math rock", but I'd like to invite everybody to check the work of this group: there are some MP3 on their website and the renditions of Krim stuff is *amazing*! They work out flawlessly Fracktured (without train wrecks ;-)), plus Red and Breathless in a very HOT manner. Their own music is also very good, recent-Krim inspired but still original. Well done guys! Dario -- - "What we hear is the quality of our listening" - Robert Fripp - Mac OS for productivity. UNIX for stability. Palm OS for mobility. Windows for solitaire. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:28:38 +0000 (GMT) From: My Brane Hurts Subject: NOT a fan, an enthusiast >Subject: Re: The Good Old Days... and an old old old >questions >What defines a fan Personally speaking I cringe at the term 'fan'. The word fan is presumably a shortening of the word fanatic which has all sorts of unpleasant connotations and this is perhaps the sort of thing that disturbs RF. I prefer to describe myself as a KC enthusiast which hopefully indicates appreciation of the great stuff that the band have done for so long without seeming to be obsessed to unhealthy degree. Andy Perry Oz (ex UK) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:15:29 -0600 From: "Michael Sheehan" Subject: The straw that broke the camel's back In response to Peter Badorre, and, alas, so many others, I am terminating my subscription to ET. I do not often contribute and increasingly less often do I read it. I don't mean to slight the good work of Toby et al. in maintaining the newsletter -- an often thankless task, I'm sure. I simply do not have time for some of the titanically egotistic rubbish that is generated by alleged "fans" of King Crimson, Robert Fripp, Trey Gunn, etc., etc. I cannot imagine the presumption that an individual must be able to assume to (implicitly) lecture the fine musicians who have been in this group, past and present, on how they need to be "more disciplined" or "stop losing the beat," or how they could improve their playing and contribution to King Crimson, how they are "overcompensating" for not being another player, or how listeners should be able post the band's work on the Internet for free download, or how the band should be available for or kowtow to this, or that, or the other personal demand, request, bias, need or want, or how rich the band is getting selling their archives and why, therefore, the public should be able to snap photos and bootleg and videotape the band against their wishes. And then to read unending debate on these matters . . . I would dearly love to see even one of this kvetching element of ET produce anything, musical or otherwise, as interesting, arresting, sincere and committed as the music King Crimson or any of its component players produce on a bad night. Lest you think I am some kind of band-worshipper, I feel the guys in KC are just human beings with feelings and aspirations and limitations and failings just like everyone else. Perhaps if one thought of this when one wrote one's remarks one would think twice, given the band's occasional reading of ET. I have rarely, if ever, seen these men exhibit a grain of the contempt, derision, projection, anger, and hostility directed their way by some (not all) of their so-called "fans," and not just in ET (the guy who screamed "Get on with it!" in New Haven springs to mind as but one example). These folks then wonder aloud why the musicians flee them. In the example of Mr. Badorre's comments, he seems to feel in some way experienced and knowledgeable enough to presume to have some awareness of Pat's psychology, and of Trey's, and spends not an inconsiderable amount of time explaining why he feels Pat is "overcompensating" for not being Bill Bruford. Where these blinding psychological insights come from is anyone's guess, but as always they say more about Mr. Badorre and how he perceives the world than they do about Mr. Mastelotto. What arrogance to make such assumptions. Alas for King Crimson that its "fans" spend such an inordinate amount of time engaged in such arrogance. If I never read another such article, or another article berating or derogating Adrian Belew, who seems as fine and decent a fellow who ever strapped on a guitar, or Robert Fripp, whose continuing, valuable and difficult work we should all be thankful for, or Trey Gunn, who seems almost at the end of his tether with this kind of mean-spirited soul-sucking, or Pat or God forbid, Tony Levin (the mind boggles at some of the tripe written about him lately) -- it would be far too soon. To minimize the chances of ever doing so I am unsubscribing. If you can't approach King Crimson with an open mind or an open heart then in my view you can't approach King Crimson and you would do the band and yourself a kindness by unsubscribing from *them.* While I won't be subscribing to ET, anyone who wishes to discuss this with me by email is welcome. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:04:44 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Level 5; Phish/KC; kids who like KC >Like a chump, I came armed only with my credit card and am consequently Level 5-less. Guess I'll have to scratch & claw for a copy from DGM like everyone else. ICE Magazine still reports a Jan 8 release date, a date shared by the new John Paul Jones CD and the new Tony Levin CD. >Hopefully this will settle all of the Phish and King Crimson questions. The last time that Phish played this discipline sounding song was a while ago. They called it Dave's Energy Guide. And The last ime they played it was at Nectar's in Burlington Vermont on 4-29-87. They also played a song called Brian and Robert - is this the same song, or a different one? >I've taken my 15 year old son to see KC three times in the last 18 months - 'cause he wanted to go. Good for you. Both my 20-year-old son and 14-year-old daughter love Crimson and look forward to every release (and remaster). - S. np: John Zorn, The Big Gundown scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:01:21 -0500 From: "eirish80" Subject: Level Five CD The Level Five CD, is, if anything, underpriced, considering the amazing music it contains; I feel the "Construkction" recorded here is freer in its playing than the versions on the "Construction of Light" and "Heavy Construkction" cds. They've got this one securely under their belts. "The Deception of the Thrush" is reformatted, and there's the three great new pieces. Speaking of "Thrush," Curved Air also quoted "The Waste Land" on their second album. I loved Level Five so much that I also bought the shirt, with that ominous P.J. Crook painting. She's a genius, very evocative of mood (at times, frightening, as in her "Nightwatch cover), and space. I wanted to get Trey's live CD also, but didn't have enough cash. My only criticism of the KCCC "Live in Detroit" is the VCS3 synthesizer, which I don't find as evocative of incoming missiles and horrible wars as the Hendrix Star-Spangled Banner. There's something overheavy in it; however, it may have been much more powerful in-concert than on record. Other than that, it's excellent, with Mel Collins on his heavy John Coltrane, and Ian Wallace's drums herding the horses back home; and it's great having a KC recording from my hometown. Robert seems reinvigorated as a touring musician since the "Space Groove" recording. King Crimson has been doing heavy duty in-concert these last couple of years, going back to the ProjeKct tours. KC also strikes me, especially given Pat's choices in drum-kits (not being a musician, I have no idea of the technology employed), as one of the heaviest metal bands around; speaking of which, I thought Tool's "Lateralus" (along with System's "Toxicity") was one of this year's best recordings. Michael http://users.htdconnect.com/~eirish ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:36:28 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: bootleg >"In my opinion" your post is too thinly reasoned and has too many >assumptions to be even remotely convincing. you know what? im not trying to convince anyone. i didnt create the damn site, and i didnt put these KC releases up on the net. but they were bound to be there, i just happened to stumble upon them. No i do not have any knowledge of KCs financial situation, but it looks pretty decent to me. not THAT many people will be downloading it. I certainly get the idea that most KC fans are more then willing to buy all the official releases, and pay for the club releases , and the shows, and the merch. So for the most part its safe to say that if they were at the show they probably bought it, if not there is probably a reason, or couldnt go to the show. For instance, people in australia who had no oppertunity to see the show and who would have to pay a lot extra in shipping fees. I bought the Level Five EP at the show, and for the last time YES i think that 15 dollars is far too expensive. NO i dont think that would deter anyone from buying it. no one has ever said that just because something is too expensive it will prevent anyone from buying it. Sam Goody sells their cds for 18.99, they are one of the biggest music stores in the country. I dont want to get into an arguement about whether its wrong or right to download music for free. Besides lets not forget about this bootleg Dangerous Curves. forget the L5 EP, whats the harm in people downloading a mix of live stuff until the official release comes out which i ASSUME everyone will want to buy anyway. but that was a retorical question. i dont care to hear your answer to whether or not there is harm in it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:47:31 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: bootleg site/censoring >Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I'm sure some readers will flame Toby for >censoring the URL out of Jordan Clifford's email Oh I totally understand why it was censored. I didnt even realize what I was doing when I tried to post that website. obviously there would be some sort of conflict there. Unfortunately the site seems to have closed down. I hope it didnt have anything to do with its sudden advertising. That would really be wrong and i would feel pretty responsible. I guess thats what happens. Now im kind of speculating about whether a member of KC saw the post and had the website shut down, or whether Toby told KC about the site, or wheter an anti-free mp3 KC fan got word to the band, or whether more people going to the site caused it to shut down. hmm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:55:32 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: merch prices >This past summer my wife and I saw Peter Frampton at the Journal Pavillon >Center in lovely Albuquerque, New Mexico (yeah, John Waites and Journey >were there, too). The guy was great , did a bit a conversation and joking >with the crowd and put on a good show about 80-90 minutes in length. >After the show, we go off toone of the booths for show stuff, and we knew >we were going to pay a bunch of money for items we would normally pay half >as much for. She picks out a $35 Journey T-shirt, and I pick out an >autographed (with a bold tip Marks-A-Lot marker) of Frampton's Detroit >(really Pontiac,MI) concert. The next day I saw the same CD at a local >store for $15. But, hey, Pete autographed my CD (so I thought)! >Therefore, cost is relative to what one wants to pay. And with a VISA card, >it is nonexistant until the bill arrives in the mail." Thats just another example of my point - Why do bands try to rape their fans? that is WAY too much! thats why i never buy stuff at concerts like that. I mean ill get the occasional shirt, the occasional cd, sticker and so on. but it really depends on the price. sometimes it just gets ridiculous. I take it as an insult. I've gotten used to it by now, but it still aggrivates me to no end. Maybe compared to that concert seeing the Level 5 cd for 15 was a relieve to you, but in reality I think its way too much. Maybe no one else shares my opinion, and keep in mind i still bought it rather then downloading it, but STILL. too much ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:59:57 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: enough about the cd price, my god >Stop whining and be happy it is available at all No, that is the wrong attitude to have. Great, its available. I am happy for that THATS WHY I BUOGHT IT. But the fact remains its a lot of damn money. I only said 1 thing abuot it, and it started this HUGE arguement that i never imagined would start over me thinking something is expensive. How about everyone gives it a rest? I THINK ITS TOO MUCH. thats my opinion. I also think concert tickets are far too expensive. And most CDs in general CD stores like Sam Goody. And College Tuition. And Cars. lots of things i think are ridiculously priced. I happen to think that Fans who buy tickets should get discounted merch. but thats just me. This is why i search used cd and record stores, and shop on Ebay, and what not. WHen i can get around these prices i do. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:08:58 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: My choice; Sid's book; Fripp w/Satriani; Don Ellis; Sid's book >2.) Most of you are hipocrites (spelling?) and those who are not, are >instead anal retentive, take your pick. If those are my only choices, I choose Anal Retentive. >I guess there's no denying that Sid Smith's Crimson book is an exceptional work. It is indeed so exceptional in all matters KC that one can but regret that it falls into the same trap as all the rock biographies. I only wished it were longer. >This is an exctract of the Joe Satriani online fan newsletter dated 12/12/01. With me in the studio will be: Jeff Campitelli on drums, Matt Bissonette on bass, Eric Caudieux on guitar and keys, John Cuniberti engineering, and a few guests... Robert Fripp (King Crimson) has contributed some great performances already! (...) Joe Satriani." This is exciting news, thanks for passing it along. >I'm mostly into jazz music, particularly jazz-rock and avant-garde stuff from the 60's and 70's (Don Ellis is my personal favorite artist.) Dude, that is an excellent choice. >"Suggest read Sid Smith's new book? " What is this book? Can somebody help me out? Please visit www.inthecourtofkingcrimson.com, you won't be disappointed. - S. np: Project Z (Jimmy Herring) scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:42:21 +0900 From: Takaaki Higuchi Subject: GIG REVIEW: DEC 11-14 Hi, I happened to decide to see US tour. This was my first challenge to see gigs outside Japan. I wondered how I could get the tickets, but it's easily solved that ticketmaster has Internationa order on their web. So I took a week vacation, and went to east coast. I also purchased "Thunder Thief" CD which is already on sale in Japan to prepare JPJ gigs :-) Dec. 11th: The Tower Theater, Philadelphia I was not sure where is the tower theater, though I could easily find it in front of the 69th station. My seat was several rows behind the sound board. JPJ played from 20:05 to 21:05, and it took 35 minutes to set the Crimson stage. So Crimson played from 21:40 to 23:00. Dec. 12th: Lisner Auditorium, Washington My seat was right side, soundboard row. JPJ played from 20:05 to 21:05, and it took 35 minutes to set the Crimson stage. So Crimson played >from 21:40 to 23:00. Dec. 13th: Beacon Theater, New York I sat in left side. JPJ played from 20:00 to 21:00, and it tooks 30 minutes to switch to Crimson. That meant Crimson played from 21:30 to 23:00, so one more encore song was added. Dec. 14th: Beacon Theater, New York I sat right backward of the floor one. Time schedule was the same as 13th. The details of each day have been already reported, so I'd like to comment overall of my impression of these gigs. In Philadelphia and Washington, it seems there were many JPJ or Led Zeppelin freaks there. On the contrary, in New York, there were more Crimson funs rather than JPJ. And that led to my conclusion that the New York gigs were far better than Philly and Washington, in favor of King Crimson. I think KC gigs are not only consisted of the band itself but also the audience. Whole environmental conditions effect it to the different results, like the "butterfly effect" :-) I cannot decide which is better 13th or 14th, because several songs including Deception of The Thrush were best on 13th, while I like the Thela Hun Ginjeet atomosphere on 14th. As Kelly Kincy writes in ET#919, Deception of the Thrush, played on 13th, was so beautiful, so good. I wish this gig would be available in Collector's Club CD in sometime. Cheers, Takaaki Higuchi from Japan, wishing KC Japan tour will occur in 2002 ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #920 ********************************