Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #919 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 919 Sunday, 16 December 2001 Today's Topics: Michael Sheehan response Band Snubs Case Studies in Bioentropy ENOUGH ABOUT TONY LEVIN! sigur ros Re: bootleg download Re: dangerous curves not for sale I like to watch.......Trey Soundtrack To Hell Labelt "camela shy" Flip Re: GIG REVIEW: 12/13 Beacon NYC $15 too much for an EP? Re: The Good Old Days... and an old old old questions EP Price BeeB recordings Level Five vs. Larks' V Tax Free Ep price Fans...they're good for blowing air around! GIG REVIEW: NYC 12/13/2001 GIG REVIEW: Beacon Theatre, NYC, 12/13 and 12/14 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:49:43 -0500 From: "Peter Badore" Subject: Michael Sheehan response Michael: Thank you for your response to my review. Unfortunately, you cut off the important part of the sentence: "...so much to the point where he loses the beat." I believe that Trey, Pat, and any musician for that matter deserve the opportunity to develop his/her own voice. Trey seems to be doing better than Pat at this point, though I reiterate Trey needs more punch in his sound. The problem I see with Pat is, like a lot of musicians who follow in the footsteps of the great ones, is a need to overcompensate. Many years ago Bill Bruford discussed in an interview how Jamie Muir changed his playing style, and probably still says this. No doubt Pat feels similarly about Bill. But Bill couldn't make an absolute change in himself any more than you or I could with our lives. Pat may very well feel the pressure put on him conciously or otherwise due to Bill's departure. My feeling is he shouldn't try. No one plays like BB, and I believe Trey feels that way about TL. I never thought any musician in KC was underpar, with the possible exception of Boz (and he developed into a solid bassist eventually). Pat may find himself a better drummer in KC if he, well, exercised some discipline and worked from there (sorry - NPI). An opinion is an opinion is an opinion, and at times one risks hurt feelings. As I wrote in my response to Tony Grieg, do you have any insight to offer? Most importantly, did you attend the show? If so, I'd like to read your review (or anyone who also attended). Again, this was Buffalo 12/4 which the Daily News did not write about the following morning. Happy Holidays, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:49:22 EST From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Band Snubs Hi, Mike keyes wrote: I hope this isn't a "dead thread", because I'd really like to know why such seemingly down to earth guys would snub a group of only four fans, standing hopefully and respectfully distant, hoping to meet musicians they admire so much. That aside, I repeat that this was first and foremost a great show, delivered by a group of top-notch artists. Any answer to my questions would help, though! As documented ad nauseum on these pages, Fripp does not interact well with fans at concerts due to years of obsessive stalking behavior from so many fans. Whether or not his attitude is justified is no longer worth debate. It is a fact that he finds any kind of contact with fans at KC gigs distasteful, although he can be quite hospitable in a setting where he has set the ground rules or has said he would be open to interaction. I have met both Adrian and Pat (and Tony for that matter) at several non KC performances and they have always been gracious and patient. They have actually seemed to enjoy autograph and bull shit sessions after small intimate gigs. My guess would be that the band closes ranks with Robert at a KC gig to avoid making his behavior stand out. Go see Pat with the Cal Trio or Adrian at a solo gig and you will find them to be very available after the show. I have no line on Trey, but from his diary entries I would expect his behavior to be more like Fripp's. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 15:34:13 -0800 (PST) From: jorge alvarez Subject: Case Studies in Bioentropy I would like to announce the release of a full-length experimental album called "Case Studies in Bioentropy" by a pair of guys from Philadelphia who listen to a lot of King Crimson and call themselves "Infidel?/Castro!". Not a conventional rock band, but an avant-garde attempt to make a cinematic album with heavy concepts and heavy guitars along with electronic spasms a la Aphex Twin and microntonal ambience inspired by Glenn Branca. The sludgy guitar stylings are influenced by Neurosis, but instead of that band's harsh screaming vocals, the only vocals on the whole album are speechs, almost entirely sampled from movies, except for a guest actor and a computer generated voice. "Unnerving, cinematic rock" -- Kevin Hufnagel of Dysrhythmia Listen to soundclips here: artists.mp3s.com/artists/273/infidel_castro.html To read more about the cd and check out some nifty graphics, go here: homepages.nyu.edu/~cjm246/bioentropy.html The cd is available with professional packaging (vivid images, shrinkwrap, print on cd and whatnot, not a stomped cd-r) for only $10 at the following Philadelphia stores: spaceboy records repo records disc-go-round relapse records rustic music You can also order it from the musicians by e-mailing trilonaut at yahoo dot com or cjm246 at nyu dot edu Thank you for your time, I hope your interested. -- George Korein ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:50:49 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: ENOUGH ABOUT TONY LEVIN! Ok, in order to stay away from being a hypocrite i wont give my opinion this TL subject and fight, so here is what i have to say. ENOUGH. ive read WAY too many long ass posts about why tony is or is not a brilliant bass / stick player.. and i dont mean to insult anyones post but they all sound the same to me and im very sick of reading them. some people might say "ok then stop reading them", and im way ahead of you. but now i find myself skimming through the whole issue and having the only thing to read be Josettes comments about old KC fans buying her drinks. As far as im concerned no one is going to say anything new, and no one has tried to limit what they say so that i can stand reading them. So a word to the wise, if you're thinking about replying to all these tony levin posts, or supposed trey gunn posts, just go back in the last 3 issues and read the 900 posts already addressing it at unneccesary length. [ Hmm, what exactly is a "long ass post"? This sophisticated coinage is new to me. -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:04:41 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: sigur ros But Akash seems to me to be very much influenced by KC/Robert Fripp wheras they rely heavily on soundscapes and synthy guitar textures. has anyone ever heard Sigor Ros? they are a band that hails from Iceland, like Bjork my icelandic princess (i LOVE bjork, by the way). they arent at all like KC, but their music basically is soundscapes. They are very interesting. its not soundscapes exactly like Fripp, and while they have a lot of instrumental music they also ahve lyrics. but the thing about them is for all the people who call Lyrics just a device for the vocal instrument, and lyrics if you dont care abuot them are meaningless, Sigur Ros raelly takes that to a new level. Their lyrics are written in a language they made up which looks like icelandic, but how the hell would i know. they dont mean anything, as the language doesnt mean anything. They are jsut there to showcase the vocals. the singer/one of the guitar players plays his guitar for the most part with a violin bow, creating a very entrancing wave of sound. some of their songs are very beautiful. Call them post -rock if you want, whatever it is, i really dig it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:15:56 -0700 From: Guido Vacano Subject: Re: bootleg download Justin Clifford says-- >> It's a pity KC won't make any money off the download or the bootleg. > >is it though? why is it a pity? the few people that will be downloading >this EP and bootleg are not going to break KCs bank account. > Dunno, I don't have firsthand knowledge of KC's financial status. Do you? Neither do I have any idea how many people will be downloading the bootleg. > As far as I >can tell any Crimson fan who was at the show bought the EP, and is willing >to spend what i think is a pretty hefty price for it too. > I'm not sure "As far as I can tell" is worth much. Also, is the price really "pretty hefty" if "any Crimson fan who was at the show bought the EP"? >And most of them, >if they dont have it, will end up ordering it, not downloading it. > Lots of assumptions here. >The >Bootleg isnt the BEST quality, and it isnt a full live show its a >compilation of sorts or recent live material, and it iwll never be >available otherwise. > Okay, it's my turn to assume. I'm assuming the bootleg (or a future bootleg) is a digital copy of the CD, in which case the quality is essentially as good as the real thing. Or are we talking about a collection of MP3s? > it is simply something for fans to listen to while >they are waiting for the official live double duo release. > Oh, is that what it is? I thought it was a special release of live material for folks who went to the shows, and that "it will never be available otherwise".. >its really not a pity at all, no one loses in my opinion > "In my opinion" your post is too thinly reasoned and has too many assumptions to be even remotely convincing. Guido Vacano > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 19:32:23 -0500 From: J A Sontag Subject: Re: dangerous curves not for sale Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I'm sure some readers will flame Toby for censoring the URL out of Jordan Clifford's email. As a rather radical proponent of free speech, I see where this would be a delicate line to walk. Certainly there have been discussions of Crimson bootlegs in ET before, and Toby allowed this one - he could have simply rejected the post. But. in the interests of keeping free speech alive, he did not do so, and for that he is applauded. There is no doubt a special relationship between ET and KC which few pubs have; you know that they read it, you know they occasionally reply, and you know, because of whatever arrangement Toby has, the replies are genuine. To provide a link to the one thing the band has consistently opposed (bootlegs) would be an insult to this special arrangement. Considering the bashing KC takes in this newsletter (and I've done my share), I don't see how anyone could consider ET to be a newsletter that is "selling out', or "knuckling under" to the VRHL. Besides, we all know how to get to boots if we want them. Why shove it in the band's face for no good reason? There is free speech, and there is free speech which is prudent. I think Toby stayed on the right side of the line with this one. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 19:44:11 EST From: Josette484 at aol dot com Subject: I like to watch.......Trey Although the room was completely dark, I could still sense his presence there before me. I was sitting comfortably in the 3rd row, directly in front of where he stood. As the lights began to faintly illuminate the stage, his silhouette grew clearer. The long straight shaft of his Warr Guitar protruded at an angle from his tall sleek body and seemed to be a part of him. The atmosphere in the room was exciting as I waited to hear the first sound begin. And then he touched it. He began to gently tap and press, moving his fingers slowly about the neck, and it responded by making the most beautiful sounds. I was mesmerized. I focused in a trance on his hands, projecting myself to the very spot where his finger paused and I watched, as if in slow motion as his finger bent the string ever so slightly. All the while I was conscious of the movements of his body. He swayed and pushed the instrument away from his body and then leaned into the very sound that it made, it looked fabulous! With each note my pleasure grew. He used both hands to weave the beautiful sounds as I felt myself drifting deeper and deeper into the music, only aware of his aura and the feeling I was having...... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 21:32:56 GMT From: et-read at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: Soundtrack To Hell As an aside and an observation - I've often read reviews and descriptions of KC's music that describes their latest repertoire as being the sort of music you'll hear if you ever end up in hell. Oddly enough, I had MP3'd LTiA-4 and some of the noisier improvs from 'Heavy Construction' to play to myself as I went walking through the streets of Edinburgh earlier today. Until you actually do it, you have * no idea * just how fitting a soundtrack this music is to real life, when you are fighting your way down Princes Street through what appears to be an unstoppable and constant onrushing tide of Christmas shoppers. Someone ought to make a computer game based on this sort of thing. I'd buy it. Mike Dickson, Elephant Talk Administration and Distribution Mellotron M400 #996 - Hammond T500 #252302 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 23:05:27 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Messinger Subject: Labelt "camela shy" Flip One time several years ago while on vacation in south east asia, I decided to splurge by dining at the Oriental Hotel on the bank of the Chowpraew river. Many well-to-do people frequent this 5 star establishment when in the vicinity, and as luck would have it, I noticed Fripp and a young klong toey dining on a big platter of som tom. There were several locals present that evening who recognized him straight away too. King Crimson is huge there and is a clever nick name for those little red chilis that are so potent. All at once, a big group rushes over saying, "you labelt Flip we taka you pichule." This was such a shock to Fripp that he started choking on the som tom, which you don't want to do because it is some viciously hot stuff. There was papaya coming out of his nose, and his face was turning quite red. This wasn't only from the coughing, but also the embarrassment of hearing, "too much prik" (the translation of chili pepper) and, "now you da King Climson man." So ever since, Fripp has had an aversion to flashing cameras. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2001 04:25:44 -0500 From: Ittai Balaban Subject: Re: GIG REVIEW: 12/13 Beacon NYC > Beyond sound, beyond "audience rights", beyond "musician's rights". I > agree with Ittai in ET #916. Reading that gig review, things seem a bit more depressing than when I originally commented. I don't know. The more time passes, the less an opinion I have about that show (i.e. it's becoming more irrelevant than A Bad Thing). Ah well.. Maybe in some future Prjct. XXIII show they'll feel sufficiently intimate and unintimidated to just relax and play. (*anxiously* -- So how was the 12/14 show?) Ittai ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 07:09:21 EST From: NCir213855 at aol dot com Subject: $15 too much for an EP? So you think $15 is too much for an EP? Well, check this out: This past summer my wife and I saw Peter Frampton at the Journal Pavillon Center in lovely Albuquerque, New Mexico (yeah, John Waites and Journey were there, too). The guy was great , did a bit a conversation and joking with the crowd and put on a good show about 80-90 minutes in length. After the show, we go off toone of the booths for show stuff, and we knew we were going to pay a bunch of money for items we would normally pay half as much for. She picks out a $35 Journey T-shirt, and I pick out an autographed (with a bold tip Marks-A-Lot marker) of Frampton's Detroit (really Pontiac,MI) concert. The next day I saw the same CD at a local store for $15. But, hey, Pete autographed my CD (so I thought)! Therefore, cost is relative to what one wants to pay. And with a VISA card, it is nonexistant until the bill arrives in the mail. Your purveyor of irrelevency------ Nick Ciraulo P.S. What do you all think the next King Crimson album will be like? Is Frippertronics dead and gone? Can Karlheinz Stockhausen help? Will David Byrne do vocals along with Adrian? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:23:35 +0100 From: "aron 2.4" Subject: Re: The Good Old Days... and an old old old questions Nice work Tim. I enjoyed reading it. Now for the old old old questions, sparked by recent comments: What defines a fan? Is the artist and HIS/HERS music an object you own? Do fans get rights by spending money? Is money power? Do fans get rights by connecting emotionaly to music? Does this impose a duty on the artist? Is the artist a person, a human being with the right to have personal freedom? Does the artist have the right to decide what he wants, does or make? Do the fans have the right to decide that for the artist? Does the artist have the duty to do what the fans want? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:08:08 -0500 From: "Stickman" Subject: EP Price Boo Hoo and Waa Waa. The owner of the product's rights says it costs $15 - buy it if you think it is worth it, leave it behind if you don't. Stop whining and be happy it is available at all, Stickman ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:48:18 -0500 From: Stuart McConaghy Subject: BeeB recordings > > Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:31:51 -0800 (PST) > From: Stephen Mahoney > Subject: BeeB recordings > > Thank (the)God(s) for libraries! > I did a search for BBC in the title of our cd collection and found > The Who, David Bowie, and Gentle Giant! I know that KC released some > of their sessions at BBC radio on their first live box set- but I wonder > if any more still lurk in the dusty shelves at the BBC? And what other > treasures does the BBC have? Yes, Genesis, Can, perhaps? > > Cheers, > > Stephen > > Portland, Or. > > Home of > Minus, Caveman Shoe(Hue)store(score) and Cozy. > One Genesis track from a BBC setting was included in the Archives 1 box set, "Stagnation", which was recorded for the old "Sounds Of The Seventies" programme. I know that Yes recordings exists, not as an official release, but the BBC sold tapes to an Italian label, I think, who released the BBC recordings in 1997/98. As far as I remember the Yes camp was pretty pissed off about that. Stu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:16:30 -0600 From: Tim Siefkes Subject: Level Five vs. Larks' V After noting the current thoughts on whether "Level Five" was actually (or perhaps spiritually) "Lark's Tongues Part V", I ran into this in RF's diary archives for this date: ----------------------- Thursday 16th. December, 1999 15.35 Conversation between Pat, Adrian & Robert while looking at the white board with titles, times & running order of the album. PM (to RF): How fixed are you on the title of "Larks' V"? RF: Well, it shares lineage with "Fracture". PM: That's what I think. And Ken thought you were playing "Fracture" when he heard you practising. RF kneels to board, rubs out "Larks' V" and writes "Fractured" in its place. AB, RF & PM look at board, consider how it looks and its implications, and agree on the new title. RF runs to find Trey to ask his approval, but he's just driven off to pack. Bill has been remixing (what was) "Larks' V" and this has significantly uncovered / clarified its character. So, as the piece's identity has become clearer, we have renamed it prior to its full birthing and moving out into the world. ------------ end quote ----------- So it would appear that "FraKctured" is actually the next descendent from the Larks' series, rather than "Level Five". ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:06:54 -0500 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Tax Free As an amplification of PZ123 at aol dot com's post in ET #918 about the reasonableness of the price on the live ep: another point on the $15 price for the "ep" (which, by the way, runs longer than Discipline, Red, and ITCOTCK, and those are just the first three I checked): for whatever reason, buy them at the gigs, they are (were) tax free. The ones I bought were $15 bucks a pop, not $15 plus tax... this is a bad deal how, exactly? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:31:41 EST From: Inturmoil at aol dot com Subject: Ep price I just happily paid 15 bucks plus shipping to dgmusa for the new ep and I was happy to do so. I made the choice. No one forced me. All of you people whining about the price of the ep should not buy it. I believe you all need an economics lesson------not the kind from a pointy-headed communist professer, but from REAL LIFE. I own a flower shop. The Mustard Seed Florist in Gig Harbor, WA. Guess what? My roses DO NOT cost me 21.95 per dozen like I charge you. Its called overhead. Lets begin here: Rent = $800 per month for the building. Phone, advertisement, and such are about $800 per month. Delivery van insurance=$115 per month My 2 employees cost me about $1800 per month My taxes I have to pay on them cost $500 / month Total taxes per month are around $2200 give or take Electricity = $120 per month Garbage disposal = $67 per month $800 per week on PERISHABLE product. $789 Shop loan payment/ month $365 van payment / month $150 / month gas for van I'm sure I've forgotten things, but given this, how much business do I need to do per day in order to pay myself $1200 a month? King crimson is no different. They have operating costs AND They are in it to make money. No one works for free. Do you? If you want to make a difference and have more disposable income, vote for politicians who have a track record of lowering taxes, and maybe less will be taken from you off the top. Sorry for the rant, but so few really understand business. Its time they did. Later-----------Jason ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:41:53 EST From: MarkJX at aol dot com Subject: Fans...they're good for blowing air around! In a message dated 12/16/01 3:27:10 AM Mountain Standard Time, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes: > Just my > opinion and opinions are like assholes...Oh you know ther rest (For those > who > don't-Everyone has one...Get it...) You just don't go around sharing it with everyone you meet (or email it to strangers). As for fan encounters, I also share the hesitancy. I try to put myself in the artist's shoes. "If I was scouring the CD store, would I enjoy someone interruping my search under any circumstance? Under what circumstance?" Whether you like it or not, most, if not all of us are just fans. Would you want your customers interrupting your life at any time at any place, for absolutely any reason at all (to paraphrase Frank Zappa)? I thought so. That said, I have the good fortune to be a volunteer announcer on a local radio station, and it's nice to know that your efforts are appreciated. I played a set last Friday consisting of LTiA Pt1 and one from the new Aphex Twin and got a really pleasant call from a listener who studiously annotated the artists and titles for later purchase (I assume). She said she has a music degree and really appreciated hearing something so well composed.... Mark J. (still waiting for my change for the 2 L5 CDs I bought for $40 at the Denver show) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 01:30:37 EST From: AndyAcunzo at aol dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW: NYC 12/13/2001 Just a few quick comments: Crimson's set was too short IMO. JPJ played for an hour and Crimson maybe for only 75-80 minutes? Not sure, but for $65 it was quite a letdown. Some interesting new stuff, and some stuff that sounds like we've heard it all before. I don't know; for most of the show it just seemed like the energy wasn't really there. The band seemed to be much more into it at the Supper Club show I caught last year. Andy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 02:32:10 -0500 From: "Kelly Kincy" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Beacon Theatre, NYC, 12/13 and 12/14 I recently subscribed to ET in order to follow the KC tour as they approached NYC. Now that the shows have passed and I've had time to reflect I thought I'd share some thoughts about the perfomances. The John Paul Jones Orchestra blew me away both nights. I was excited to finally see the (arguably) most talented member of Zeppelin play live, and he didn't disappoint. The tone of his ten-string bass was immense. Run away! It could hurt you! The drummer was great, handling both the newer songs and the Zeppelin songs equally well. I have to admit that I was skeptical when I heard the former bassist with Kajagoogoo was playing stick with JPJ, but Nick Beggs was a very pleasant surprise. As for the complaints that he posed too much or made too many faces, get over it; the guy was clearly having a great time. He has as much right to do that as RF does to sit facing away from the audience. (More on that later.) All in all they were very impressive and I'm looking forward to the release of "Thunderthief." Okay, now for the headliners. Having seen KC last year at the Supper Club on the TCOL tour (to quote RF: "Beast! Beast!") I decided to catch both NYC dates on this tour. And I'm very, VERY glad I did. Both shows were amazing, with Thursday's show surpassing Friday's primarily because the audience was a bit quieter and more receptive to the silent stretches of some of the pieces. "Deception of the Thrush" is a good case in point of how the dynamic between band and audience can impact the success of a piece. Thursday's audience, I think, "got it" and was quiet when the band was quiet. This allowed KC to present the material as intended. Honestly, between RF's gorgeous soundscapes and TG's solo I felt my eyes tear up. Friday night the audience was a bit more rowdy and a number of people insisted on shouting out song titles during the quiet parts of "Thrush." To each his own, but THIS KC was playing at THIS particular moment and I can't understand why someone would interrupt a beautiful piece like "Thrush" to shout out "ITCOTCK." It visibly distracted Trey and seemed to "take him out of the song," to use his own parlance. His solo was still gorgeous that evening, but the less cooperative members of the audience did manage to bring the intensity down a notch. AB commented Thursday night that repeat attendance at Friday's show would necessitate changes to the song order. "Thanks to everyone here tonight, and to everyone coming tomorrow night. That means we have to change the set list, thank you very MUCH!" The changes were minimal; a few songs were switched to encores and "Red" was substituted for "Dinosaur." The performance of "Red" was both tight and hilarious at the same time. By this time KC had apparently realized that the energy of the crowd coupled with their own excitement over this being the end of the tour was resulting in a rowdier show. At one point during "Red" Belew shouted "Everbody dance!" and started springing about like mad on the stage. RF actually cracked up at this and a number of people started dancing. RF was in rare form Friday night. His playing was incredible, of course, and he managed to overcome some technical problems during "Dangerous Curves." In addition, a group of people in front of him was so loud in it's appreciation for the show that at the end of the set, rather than disappear behind the drum riser as he had the previous evening, he actually walked to the foot of the stage and bowed to this group and applauded them. He seemed genuinely pleased with the audience's enthusiasm and a bit more loose as a result. (This was the tradeoff for losing the quiet appreciation of the previous night's audience; wild enthusiasm that couldn't help but make the band smile. It was nice seeing both extremes over two nights.) Nothing loose about his playing either night, though; he may try to disappear when the band is done playing but when he's onstage performing he continues to amaze. As a side note, I fail to understand the constant grousing that RF doesn't engage the audience enough. He isn't a stand-up comic; he's a musician trying to give a good performance. If he needs to face the other band members in order to do this, so be it. I personally don't care if he sits with his back to the audience or dances around in a leotard; I'm there to listen, not watch. And people who argue that they'd rather listen to KC's albums than lay down money for a concert ticket when RF isn't going to prance about for their amusement are simply missing the point of a live KC performance. RF has stated quite eloquently in his writings that in KC's philosophy the live performance completes the evolution of a song. The musicians onstage and the presence of the audience creates a moment when, hopefully, the song transcends mere notes and scales and becomes Music in the larger sense. Why else would RF and Co. spend the time, money and resources to mount a live tour when it clearly isn't something RF loves to do? Read his diary postings; he dislikes being away from England, dislikes being away from his wife and clearly isn't happy with the expectations placed upon the band by certain members of the audience. Playing live is part of their process, and those who expect something more superficially entertaining should stick with Britney Spears and her ilk. Between the two shows, it became clear to me that TG and PM have swept aside any suggestions that this lineup isn't "really" KC. These four musicians clearly form a dangerous live unit and deserve the highest praise performing the pieces they do without a net. No, TG isn't TL; nor is TL TG. Both are superb musicians who push themselves with each performance and have brought different things to Crimson. The same holds true with PM and BB; each brought different things to the table. As a bassist, I would consider myself very fortunate to play with either drummer. And PM seems to really love playing live. There's nothing like watching a drummer who really enjoys what he's doing, probably because the physical nature of the act of drumming allows a player's exuberance to shine through more clearly. Overall, while Thursday night's show surpassed Friday's in intensity and the audience's capacity for listening, both shows made it clear to me that Crimson has entered a new era and is forging a musical identity as distinctive and relevant as any of their previous lineups. Earlier posters who have stated that the shows were lackluster must have been the ones talking about the KC back catalog throughout the show, because they clearly weren't listening to the music being played onstage. They must be translating a lack of their old favorites on the setlist into apathy on the part of the band; a ridiculous concept. It saddens me that some people can't seem to get past previous incarnations and enjoy what's being produced now, because to me KC has always been about NOW. With an awareness of the past but no reliance upon it, they have always forged ahead in an effort to produce music that challenges both themselves and their audients. I feel very fortunate to have witnessed these two shows and would like to take this opportunity to thank KC for what they've produced in the past, what they're producing now and what they will produce in the years to come. I can't wait. Kelly ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #919 ********************************