Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #917 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 917 Saturday, 15 December 2001 Today's Topics: Level Five more T-Lev redux, precision etc. What to say to them? yelling at concerts Dangerous Curves & Level 5 Re: EP price From a fellow girl KC fan! bootleg download Ade Humor Gordon's amazing success a band that sounds like KC in philly+random thoughts Kiss / KC / Kabong Trey Gunn? Doesn't matter! Possibly the final word on TL Merchandise dangerous curves not for sale Smush GIG REVIEW: Beacon Theater NYC 12/13/2001 GIG REVIEW: 12/13 Beacon NYC GIG REVIEW: KC in New Haven, 12/9/01 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: 14 Dec 2001 14:10:49 -0000 From: "Brian Reynolds" Subject: Level Five I've read several posts where ET'ers state that "Level Five" sounds a lot like "Larks Tongue in Aspic IV." It should, because "Level Five" (as far as I know) is "Larks Tongue in Aspic V"...hence "Level Five" is level five. I may be wrong, but this is a logical assumption. I also agree with the fellow about this being a place to celebrate KC and keep people informed of news (newsletter). "Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who...this is supposed to be a happy occasion!" - Python Anybody been playing around with Fripp tuning? I tuned one of my guitars to Fripp tuning. It's very interesting to say the least. I highly recommend trying it out! Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:59:40 +0000 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: more T-Lev redux, precision etc. in ET 915 "Michael Destefano" writes: > To all those responding to my Tony Levin post: > Concerning Mr.Levin: You are a very good bass player Well, you've answered your own point about why he gets so much praise here. It's because he is, to quote your own words back at you, "a very good bass player"... > All of the readers were quick to defend Tony by proclaiming his > uncanny ability to work within the groove like no other...Fine! "All" generally implies, errrr, "all". I've just re-read my response, and can see no mention of "groove" or anything like it! > Is everybody so blinded with "PC isms" that honest observations of > faults are bad and mean and unnecessary and ignorant and I'm telling > my mommy what you said? Why do you think that? Your post implied there was no reason you could see why T-Lev got so much praise here. Several people gave reasons he did get the praise here. Now you're doing it too, saying he's a very good bass player... > Do you believe that for me to notice mistakes means I have no ability > to perceive the beauty of what is going on? You rather set yourself up for such a belief by completely failing to mention any of the beautiful things first time around. If you're entirely negative to start with, blaming other people for following your own example seems a little unfair. > Creativity is something that is nurtured and fine tuned---I > don't want to witness the work in progress.. If you think that, fine. But don't go and look at a band where watching it in progress is part of what's on offer and then complain about them giving you what any informed KC fan should know is on offer. Check out BB's comments quoted in the inner sleeve of the P1 CD (quote from memory, so it may not be 100% but I think the sense is there): "The problem with arrangements is they tend to ensure accidents never happen. The beauty of collective improvisation is that it encourages accidents to happen". Where this is an ethic felt worth reproducing in words in the band's CDs, it shouldn't be *too* surprising to have things developing in front of your eyes. And it's not like the current T-Lev-less lineup is any different in that respect. > And no! I don't agree with the statement about the music being so > demanding that mistakes are bound to happen---what a bunch of crap! Well, IMHO you're bound to be disappointed then. If you get a very good player then they can play something well within their ability perfectly, or something at the edge of their ability quite possibly imperfectly. You can always make something too hard. KC have chosen to play closer to the line than most, so again if you dislike that decision, move on to a band that always plays well inside its limits. > This particular type of music prides itself on technical > precision, I know mistakes will happen, but they shouldn't be > expected. Your last sentence there strikes me as something of a contradiction in terms... If you know they'll happen, surely they are to be expected? Technical precision is a prequisite to even *try* something like many KC numbers. It isn't a guarantee of success. Can Tiger Woods make every hole in 1? No, despite unequalled technical precision as a golfer, because he's trying something extraordinarily difficult. Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:25:05 -0500 From: "Justin Weinberg" Subject: What to say to them? I happened to see Trey Gunn browsing at a store just before the Washington, DC show. This kind of situation (I've encountered Adrian and Robert in the past) always puts me in two minds. Part of me wants to rush over and say: "Wow! I just love your music. Thanks so much" and ask all sorts of questions, wish him well, and talk about music, etc. I think Trey's non-KC work is outstanding, and it would be easy for me to gush. I'm not interested in autographs, but just--I don't know--getting to know the artist a bit. The other part of me says, in a stern inner voice: "leave him alone!" This voice reminds me that I'm just one of thousands of people who might approach the artist, who the artist doesn't know, who the artist doesn't recognize as having any taste or good judgment, and who would probably all say the same thing. Furthermore, the guy probably just wants some peace and does not want to be dragged into a polite conversation with a tiresome fan (heck, I'm a fan and I find most fan-conversations tiresome). So what should I do? Well, I went over, said hi, and "have a great show." That was about right: minimal intrusion, not asking much, ok. But then I also asked if he wanted to join me and my friends for dinner. He politely declined. I probably shouldn't have asked. We've talked a little about fan-performer interaction before on ET, mainly in reference to Robert (lesson: run away from him before he runs away from you--ha ha ;) ). Any further thoughts on what's the right thing to say or do? Justin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:25:11 -0500 From: "Justin Weinberg" Subject: yelling at concerts No matter what you are thinking of yelling ("Moonchild!", "play whatever you want!," etc.) I think a good thing to keep in mind is that, generally, no one likes to be yelled at. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:25:19 -0500 From: "Justin Weinberg" Subject: Dangerous Curves & Level 5 Dangerous Curves: What an exciting way to start a show--a techno-bolero build-up from darkness and silence. If this is KC's sound of the future, bring it on! Level 5: Fripp's sweeping lines about four and a half minutes into this new Larksy-piece are otherworldly. Too bad they don't appear as a melody elsewhere in the piece. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:49:41 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: EP price > 2 - $15.00 wasn't expensive for the tour "EP." The EP is over 45 min > long - easily as long as many full releases! >Right on! Uh... 15 dollars is too expensive for any cd in the first place. EPs, which arent full length cds, should be much less. While the KC EP happens to be longer then most full length cds, that isnt the point. the point is 15 is too expensive in the first place. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:26:47 -0600 From: "ALARCON CLAUDIA" Subject: From a fellow girl KC fan! Hey Jossette, >From a fellow girl KC fan to another: What was he wearing???? :-) And you're right. It is wonderful being a female KC fan. Not many of us out there! BTW everybody: get with the holiday spirit and stop bashing Trey and Tony, please. If you think you can play bass or stick better than either of them, please form your own band and prove it. Otherwise, just drop it. It's pointless. Patiently waiting for Level5 in Austin Texas, Claudia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:04:40 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: bootleg download >It's a pity KC won't make any money off the download or the bootleg. is it though? why is it a pity? the few people that will be downloading this EP and bootleg are not going to break KCs bank account. As far as I can tell any Crimson fan who was at the show bought the EP, and is willing to spend what i think is a pretty hefty price for it too. And most of them, if they dont have it, will end up ordering it, not downloading it. The Bootleg isnt the BEST quality, and it isnt a full live show its a compilation of sorts or recent live material, and it iwll never be available otherwise. it is simply something for fans to listen to while they are waiting for the official live double duo release. its really not a pity at all, no one loses in my opinion. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:48:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Sheridan Subject: Ade Humor There was a great mention of Adrian's between-song humor and I wanted to add another - on Sunday at New Haven, he announced that they were going to do a new song, and some Wise Informer in the crowd shouted out "EleKCtriKC!!" Adrian looked bemused and said "Well, it can't be that new if you already know the title!" Jim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:23:39 -0800 (PST) From: Arturs Kalnins Subject: Gordon's amazing success People on ET may be interested in this follow-up to another note that was posted a few weeks ago. I had the pleasure of seeing Gordon when he visited Los Angeles a few years ago. It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. And I always thought he was denied his birthright in a way, being the only ex-Crimson bassist not to have found major success in another arena. Not anymore... cheers to all, Arturs UK: Club crooner vies to top UK Christmas pop charts. LONDON, Dec 10 (Reuters) - A little-known club singer is challenging Robbie Williams in Britain's traditional race to top the Christmas pop charts with a love song he composed while shopping. Gordon Haskell, 55, signed a 2.8 million pounds ($4 million) album deal on Monday after the unexpected success of his first single in more than 30 years, his manager said. "How Wonderful You Are", described as a cross between Frank Sinatra and Bing Crosby, is UK bookmaker William Hill's 20-1 fourth favourite for the Christmas number one spot. Arturs Kalnins Assistant Professor Department of Management and Organization Marshall School of Business University of Southern California Los Angeles, CA 90089-0808 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:38:42 From: "High Council of Martian Affairs, Earth Colony # 237699" Subject: a band that sounds like KC in philly+random thoughts I'm a 24 yr old female ( GASP! who actually reads ET & reads all of it for fun too! ) who has been into Robert Fripp and KC for years ( mainly Fripp and Eno). I wanted to post here to see if anybody else had heard of a very weird band which I just recently saw called, Akash. I'm sure some of the locals here from ET who are in or near to Center City, Philadelphia may have already heard plenty about them via local zines, Citypaper, etc. But Akash seems to me to be very much influenced by KC/Robert Fripp wheras they rely heavily on soundscapes and synthy guitar textures. They might be something that would appeal to everyone else here even though they are very much a cult thing right now. www.mp3.com/akashmusic But I saw Akash a couple weeks ago in a small bar on South Street for the 1st time after hearing about them endlessly for over a year from one of my guy friends. Akash totally rocked that night with a ton of "Frippy" Guitar sounds and lots of naked bodies doing some sorta of wild & trippy-fire-bondage oriented-performance art with both skimpy costumes, props and different types of varying-acts. They even did a "Flogging Britanny Spears" routine where one of them pretended to be Justin & Britanny Spears engaging in Bondage while on LSD in a Shopping Mall...& that was a riot. I can see why guys like them, but I also saw lots & lots of other women at this show which was really packed. & I never expected something as blatantly sexual and as wildly sensational as the visual aspects of Akash's show. They are clearly over the top and over the egde of good taste in some instances, but in addition to the musicianship which was marvelous, they just really blew me away. As it turned out, I happened to also know the guitar player from Akash (John Price) as we grew up together in Bucks County, PA but had not seen each other for years. For reference, John Price looks like a bespectacled, 6ft2, 300lb gargantuon - African American- Yeti but with a big Warm Smile. John is really an incredible guitar player and also a very nice person. I sat back and laughed to myself as I saw him sitting down to play behind the performance artists with his teeny - specs and his flame colored les paul, as I said to myself that this is clearly the Bizarro World Double of Robert Fripp except @ twice his Ht and Weight and this time out Fripp is black! ( but Johnny didn't play blues ). I also got to meet their wildman sax player, an older guy named Elliott Levin whom I never had heard of though he too totally blew me away with his squeaks and squonks which were like a werid John Coltrane. As a Live Band Akash, sounded an awful lot like a rough mix of Lizard & Discipline Era KC's with hints of Hawkwind . But to these ears, Akash doesn't remotely sound the way they do on their MP3's as I remeber them sounding Live ... and i don't know why that is so, but their MP3's are just entirely different though they are growing on me. & BTW on a separate tangent of sorts & IMHO, take a lot of Lizard - one of my fave KC albums right next to Islands - where say minus Jon Anderson's vocals, doesnt Lizard at the very least make you think of where groups like Portisehead and such got the bulk of their sound, though mainly IMHO by updating that heavy string - dark - ominous orchestral stuff with hip-hop-dance beats...anybody else notice that or feel the same way?) But it was kinda a shame Akash's visual show was so wild & sensational because the musicians were all so incredible but kinda obscured by the stuff the dancers and performance artists were doing in front of the band. But I do think any KC fan would appreciate something like Akash. I will go back to lurking :) Sara B. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:16:43 -0800 From: "Mark Tucker" Subject: Kiss / KC / Kabong Mike/Kissman24: >Don't get me started on KISS being a kid-band. Ever been to a KISS show, >Mark? You want to. Believe me. Actually, I still regret missing one very unsual show they put on in Long Beach (Calif) in the 70s: they appeared at a small theater with one of my favorite bands, Wishbone Ash. Several friends went for the Ash but were curious what all the foofrah re: Kiss was (theyd heard them but werent impressed). Every one came back impressed...not with the music but the showmanship and that unsual something that Kiss had, who appeared in full drag and put on a show they said was stunning. >They were and are a serious band; they're serious business-men. Theyre definitely serious business men, esp. Simmons, but Ive listened through ALL their LPs and find little to credit musical prowess to (sorry, but thats my honest sentiment). >You think the merchandise is for KIDS? ...Man, besides me (I'm an >exception), no kid likes KISS around here...NO ONE. And every year when I >attend the annual KISS Convention, it's an older crowd. Yeah, Kissees (sorry, couldnt help it) are like Trekkies: die-hards. >My dad raised me well, did he not? My congrats to him. At the risk of sounding maudlin (something Im already lightly being accused of by another Mike ETer), its always nice to see intelligent well-rounded kids coming up in the environment - Im one of those guys who thinks his generation (the 60s/70s crowd) sold out to Korporate Amerika far too readily and must rightly stand to answer for a lot of what the more intelligent punkers (Biafra, etc.) slag them for. >He only turned me onto a few bands-Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, >Metallica-the basics. Good stuff. >I pretty much discovered everything else for myself, especially prog, >because my dad isn't into prog that much. Yeah, I discovered it by myself too. I one day read an ad in Creem, wherein Pete Townshend announced hed discovered a new guitar god and band, King Crimson, so I (being a mega-partisan of Petes) rushed out and bought it...and that nailed my enamorment with my favorite genre (The Electric Prunes, Vanilla Fudge, Iron Butterfly, and others had been leading me up to it). >You're right, they weren't really BLUESY...I was just thinking of Ladies Of >The Road...That's a bluesy song, no doubt. And very out of character for them (but still superb), as was Song of the Gulls, which is one of my all-time favorite classical chamber pieces - Ill put it beside Debussy, Rachmaninoff, and Roger Eno any day. >>Deep Purple >Ah, one of the best! Morse is so good he almost makes you forget Blackmore (who now seems to be aping Renaissance). >Martin Barre is one of the best guitarists around...VERY under-appreciated. Ill probably ruffle other ETers on this, as I have in the past, but I favor Mick Abrahams. Tulls first two LPs are still indescribable. Abrahams took psych-blues to a whole new dimension and no ones touched him since. Too, Ian Anderson was (is) an incredible acoustic guitarist. Having seen Tull a couple times in the 70s, I saw where what a lot of people attributed to Barre, on acoustic, was actually Anderson. The guy was better on guitar than on flute (which was mostly a very good take-off of Roland Kirk)! >I might see King Crimson (yay) at the Beacon this Saturday. Cool. I saw KC...geez, I dont remember how many times...every time they blew into town here in L.A. Absolutely magnificent each time, the highlight of my concert-going days (along with several other bands). I particularly remember the Larks Tongue band: Bruford especially was out-of-his-mind-killer, creating worlds on stage with those mind-bending percussives (to my mind, he hasnt equalled himself since). Funnily enough, I cant recall if Muir was with them or not...I think he was. But that particular concert, at the Santa Monica Civic, where the Strawbs played under them (GREAT ticket!) was one of the best I ever saw. It ranks with a few other mind-blowers: Moody Blues / Spirit / Trapeze; Hendrix / Chicago / Cat Mother; Oldfield (the only band on the bill); Gentle Giant (cant recall who played with them each time); Tangerine Dream (no other band); etc. -marc- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:22:19 -0500 From: "budlet" Subject: Trey Gunn? Doesn't matter! Trey Gunn's post (or psuedo-Trey Gunn's post) was excoriating and hilarious. In particular... "To listen to Music through your ears must be agony." It doesn't really matter to me if this came from the "real" trey Gunn or not, it had a lot of sense to it. It also has a lot of the in-your-face intelligence that Trey's DGM diaries have, so if it's not him its someone who has successfully studied how to talk like Trey! (As for Levin, I've never met a professional bass player who was not practically in awe at the uniqueness and true "feel" of Levin's sound.) This actually reminds me of the mini prog-punk debate. A lot of folks can get caught up in the technicality of the music and forget that which is supposed to ride on top of whatever notes may exist. Punk (at least what we experienced here in New York City in the 70s) was all about that, and indeed clung to simple forms for the purpose of avoiding the mentality associated with the way a lot of prog-fams listen to prog (ie, with their thinking minds rather than their bellies and balls). Of course, if you can hook up great technique with a focus on that basic, primitive, wordless force that is inside the best music, well...that's what Crimson is about, at least these days. BTW--the show at the Beacon on 12/13 was absolutely incredible, and shows that this band may enter places previous Crims could not. (Well, after hearing the Level 5 CD this morning, I almost think that maybe the double trio could have gone there, but for some reason it didn't...) This band seems to have formed a new gestalt that didn't really exist last year. And not all of the pieces were hard/metal. There were some very delicate musical pieces, including something with a lot of buzzy/ringing bell-like sounds, and Adrian working a keyboard or synthesizer. This band is morphing into something new, and I hope they don't stop at the entrance to this strange, new land...on some levels this may be the most satisfying Crimson ever, and a band that seems to have no need to rely on the popular structures through which it operated in the 80s. -Emory ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:52:16 EST From: Wilcox660 at aol dot com Subject: Possibly the final word on TL Ok, let me keep this brief. Tony Levin is a totally impeccable musician & a class act of a human being. Same applies to Trey Gunn. All else is irrelevant. Next topic, please. John A Wilcox ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 22:47:18 -0000 From: "sjwilson" Subject: Merchandise Yes, there's a dirty word. I've been in contact with DGM-UK to query why there is so much more KC merchandise available on the US part of DGM rather than the UK side. Apparantly it's a resourcing issue - Are there any KC fans in the UK who would be more inclined (or more delighted if they already are) to join KCCC if the merchandise range was as wide in the UK as it is in the US. If there are can I suggest that you make your feelings known to DGM-UK. My own feeling is that your average KC afficionado tends to be more intelligent and usually more affluent and have more conviction in their own beliefs (combined with a better credit card limit) than your average punter. I certainly would be interested and I'm a 38 year old fan of KC who loved the band back in 1978 but who went elsewhere for 22 years and who is now in the enviable position of buying a huge back catalogue all in one go and is certainly overdosing in delight! I also live and work in Dorset, England which is where much of Sid Smith's book on KC is initially based. Would you believe it that Gordon Haskell in on the brink of international stardom.???? Martin Wilson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:22:59 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: dangerous curves not for sale Well, chalk it up to either naivity or stupidity but I never thought I'd set up something to be sold later as a bootleg. Sorry Crim. Just to clear this up, the site that i downloaded your bootleg from, and has the level 5 EP for download is FREE. its not a sold bootleg, no one makes money off it. its just a site that someone keeps up and he transfers his albums onto a downloadable mp3 form on his webpage. these 2 cds are among them. no one is ripping KC off and no one is profiting. and for anyone who still hasnt gotten the site and wants it, i could go without anymore emails requesting it- hear it is: http:******************* [ I am not publishing this in ET for obvious reasons. You can purchase the CD direct from DGM at http://www.disciplineglobalmobile.com/cat/0106cat.shtml -- Toby ] Like i said, its a FREE music directory. you simply click on the album link and click on the song and it downloads. if that doesnt work (it doesnt work for me anymore for some reason) then RIGHT click on ti and do "save target as.." as save it to a file. there you go. and remember like i said twice i only advertised this because KC didnt hit a lot of places and while these unlucky fans would undoubtably pay the 15 dollars for the EP at the show, they cant so they need something. like i said before most of them might even order it anyway. who knows. Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:52:46 EST From: MarkJX at aol dot com Subject: Smush In a message dated 12/14/01 12:45:28 PM Mountain Standard Time, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes: > 1. There's a new gameshow on USA called "Smush" (I'm pretty sure), and the > object of the game is to construct (construKct?) strings of words that > make phrases with the preceding ones, a la "Oyster Soup!" There were > some pretty interesting ones, as I remember. Not to mention the interactive WEB version of the game, which I host at: http://members.aol.com/markjx/belewsoup.htm Were the L5 CDs $15 everywhere? If so, I got ripped off in Denver, paying $20 each (and I bought 2, one for a friend) and expecting, ironically, that they would be $15. As for the King being dead, no chance. I was disappointed with the show in Denver, but this is LIVE. Stuff happens. The Tool warmup show in Boulder last summer defied expression (in the good way). The new material is a lot like the TCoL material, which itself is somewhat derivative conceptually of previous KC. So what. Beat and ToaPP were somewhat similar to Discipline, which was massively different from what came before. Then again, THAT disc took 6-7 years to surface. Would you rather wait? I thought so. And the "TL stinks" thread is not even worthy of comment, so I won't. Mark J. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:32:56 -0500 From: Michael dot Russell at mercerdelta dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW: Beacon Theater NYC 12/13/2001 Though I'm a Zeppelin fan of three decades' standing, I had not heard ZOOMA yet, so I didn't quite know what to expect of John Paul Jones. I was delighted to find my feet tapping to his trio's muscular instrumentals right away. Armed with a battery of custom built expanded range basses, Jones was able to trade both bass and lead riffs with his kilted stick player with great ease. There were several Zeppelin references, the most amusing being an instrumental "Black Dog", where Jones replicated Robert Plant's vocal mannerisms on the lap steel with an accuracy that was simultaneously brilliant and hilarious. The trio also played a blistering slow blues into a stomping version of "When the Levee Breaks". It occurred to me that Jones could easily have held his own against Jimmy Page as a guitarist or against Junior Brown as a slide player. Jones also had an easy humor that was refreshing, both in his brief quips to the audience and his new "Freedom Song," on which he sings about the tribulations of husband and wife trying to just get away from it all for a few days. I bought ZOOMA on the way out; Jones had absolutely convinced me to vote with my wallet. And then . . . Crimson's set was: Intro (?) into Frying Pan EleKctriKc ConstruKction of Light Thela Hun Ginjeet Dinosaur Improv (?) Lark's Tongues in Aspic, Part IV into I Have A Dream First Encore: Deception of the Thrush and Level 5 Second Encore: Elephant Talk It's funny, but Crimson truly did seem to be a double duo last night: a fun duo (Pat and Adrian) and a serious duo (Trey and Robert). Pat reminded me of Bill Bruford in spirit: both of them just LOVE to play. Pat exuded the same sheer delight with bashing and crashing, though in terms of style, he's very much his own man. Adrian's broad grin on "Thela" and "Part IV" was also quite winning. In spirit, Adrian and Pat were communicating a pleasure in the moment that helped make the link for me. Adrian's musical role was akin to his grin; he was repeatedly a Puckish, lighthearted foil for the stoic Fripp. Stoicism was truly the hallmark of the serious duo: both Robert and Trey wore "Guitar Craft Face" for a good part of the evening. They were both very muddy in the mix at first, and frankly, I was straining to hear Robert at several points troughout the gig. I was seated far over to one side, and my left ear is shot today as a result; that could have been part of the problem. That said, both are instrumental monsters and certainly lived up to their reputations last night. Trey's "Thrush" bit never fails to move me, and Robert's blistering "Part IV" was utterly magnificent. Robert's economy of movement at frenetic fairy fingers moments has always struck me as elegant. If he prefers to face the band more than the audience to facilitate that, then so be it. The band's three exits underscored the undercurrent of duality. Trey joined Adrian and Pat to wave to the audience, smile and express thanks, whereas Robert acknowledged the audience briefly in his own formal idiom away from the band. He then made a point of retreating to the back to exit separately behind the drum riser each time. And yet, when this group circulates notes (ConstruKction of Light is a perfect example), it is one organism. More so last night than usual, Crimson seemed to be a literal representation of the Trinitarian Mystery: vastly different aspects within a unity. For me, this added an odd vibe to the evening that had not been there when Jones was on stage. Maybe I am actually getting old enough to sense the different energies radiating from these groups of musicians. Or maybe I'm just getting old enough to start imagining things . . . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:58:08 -0500 From: mike Subject: GIG REVIEW: 12/13 Beacon NYC Beyond sound, beyond "audience rights", beyond "musician's rights". I agree with Ittai in ET #916. I have seen KC about ten times over the last 15-20 years or so. I have seen RF about the same playing solo, and once w/Sylvian at the Beacon. I can't waste my money on this any longer. A ridiculously short concert. First, I (personally) had to deal with JPJ and his "Joe Satriani" type playing: how fast, adrenelated, and non-stop can you play: 6,7, 8, maybe 9 minutes?" That's just me. I know alot of people like this non-stop testosterone (maybe even Fripp: G3?) Composition is more attractive to me, not the "how fast, blah blah, blah" mentioned above. Sprinkle speed into a brilliant comp, and you have art. KC played about 35 minutes or so, left the stage for five, played 5 minutes or so, left the stage for 5. Played Elephant Talk, and left for good. No-one in the band seemed particularly interested (hold Belew, who always puts up, what should I say, a good "front") that they were there. Fripp sat, as usual, in almost complete darkness most of the show. Facing the band. So, for $65 I got the same effect as sitting in my living room in the dark, hold many of the CDs are longer than this concert. King Crimson doesn't care. Robert Fripp... he is no longer open to discussion; his disregard for his audience is well documented. I've dealt with it, looked past it, and defended his actions (in several ET issues). But enough is enough. If a band wants to be so self absorbed that they race through a concert with obvious complacence, and the leader could care less about even seeing who is shelling out their good money to see them perform, I'll pass for a more intimate band & show. Unfortunately, I have to waste my time and more one last time. I am also going tonight, second row/ right side of stage. Lucky me... I'll see Fripp's back for one hour!! I'll keep reading ET, keep listening to / buying (?) CDs, but never again pay to experience what's identical to what could be experienced free in the living room. Just a note to fellow ETers: save your typing fingers: what I state is well documented (especially this tour). Fripp & KC are not God or God-like, and they are ripping people off by giving less (of themselves and their music and their actual bodies) than any group I've ever seen live, as they obviously could care less. Read past ET newsletters: this tour has been a farce. To quote an earlier Gig Review of this tour "What the hell was that last night??" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:23:45 -0800 (PST) From: mike keyes Subject: GIG REVIEW: KC in New Haven, 12/9/01 Dear Et readers, I recently attended my first Crimson show at the Palace, in new haven Connecticut. Having been a fan for the past three years, I was dying to see the guys live. I regretted having missed the chance to see the double-trio live, and swore I would catch them the next time through. Well I did, and it was astounding. They played a lot of newer stuff, and the execution was flawless. Pat has really filled the sonic space left by Bruford, as well as kicked the band into a whole new direction, rythmically. I dragged my friend and guitarist along, and afterward he was a changed man. John Paul Jones was also impressive, and his band matched his poise with their enthusiasm. Does anyone know the name of that crazy stick player in the kilt? That boy was amazing! I have a few questions though, for those of you who may have more experience with the band live: 1) Do they usually play such short sets?Crim was only onstage for about an hour. 2) Are they always so standoffish with their fans? I mean, I realize their primary goal is to share their music, but would it hurt to say hi and sign an autograph or two? After the show, Myself and three others were standing out back, a respectful 25 or 30 feet from the bus, just looking to say hello, great show, nice to meet you. The guys were out and on the bus in a flash, as though under threat of assassination, and the Palace crew were very rude in basically telling us to beat it. Adrian even walked by (briskly, with his collar up) right after the show, but out of respect, I did'nt stop him, thinking he'd be around later. Are these guys all agoraphobic, painfully shy, or do they think we fans aren't worth their time? The bus was there for a good forty minutes, so it's not like there was a hurry. I hope this is'nt a "dead thread", because I'd really like to know why such seemingly down to earth guys would snub a group of only four fans, standing hopefully and respectfully distant, hoping to meet musicians they admire so much. That aside, I repeat that this was first and foremost a great show, delivered by a group of top-notch artists. Any answer to my questions would help, though! [ Here's one possible answer: You buy a gig ticket. You see the gig. You go home. -- Toby Thanks, Mike Keyes ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #917 ********************************