Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #913 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 913 Wednesday, 12 December 2001 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: Extra ticket for NYC 12/13! Re: Math Rock? Earthworks & Related CDs Now Available Bashing the "New" KC In Defense Of Ol' Papa Bear Need help with Collector's Club Tony Levin aTTTaKKKK :-( Merch at shows.. SMACK!! Re: T-Lev flames Gordon Haskell Re: tony levin Re: tony levin Both Gunns Blazing Chicks Re: Attendance bashing T-Lev? trey gunn re tony levin GIG REVIEW/COMMENTARY: Philadelphia PA 11 Dec 01 GIG REVIEW: New Haven 12/9 -very long GIG REVIEW: 12/11 Philadelphia ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:11:45 -0500 From: "Edward Yuhas, Jr." Subject: GIG BIZ: Extra ticket for NYC 12/13! My lame-o friends all blew out on me (they do not know what they are missing...). Anyway, the seat is in the Loge, Row J, center of the section for $50.00. That is face value. Any takers can contact me at ejyuhas at eclipse dot net. Sorry for the short notice! ! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:44:02 -0500 From: "Darin Lemieux" Subject: Re: Math Rock? Definition: MATH ROCK Math Rock is a musical style, not necessarily genre, in which songs are composed with different imstruments playing in 2 or more different time signiatures at a time, but the songs are arranged such that all parts add up in the end (hence "Math Rock"). A great example of this is a 1996 performance of Larks' Tongues In Aspic, Part 2 - I believe it's from Mexico City. In the first section, BB and Pat are playing in 4/4, with Ade, Robert, Tony and Trey all playing in 5/4. The song is arranged in this performance so that all parts meet every 20th note (4th bar for the 5/4 players, 5th for the 4/4). Some of my friends have made the Math Rock observation upon first hearing Crimso - and yes, it is true. They've been doing it since day one - not trying to be a math rock band, mind you - just trying to be innovative. Take care all, Darin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 01:20:01 -0000 From: "Altered State" Subject: Earthworks & Related CDs Now Available Hi, I'm the webmaster for probably the only fan site for Bill Bruford's Earthworks on the net - http://www.alteredstate.co.uk/earthworks I've just added a store to the site - it's full of great deals on the band's CDs, plus great deals on the various artists material. It's all linked to official CD sellers so the artists will all get money from the purchases. As an example of one of the great offers, Stamping Ground - Live is there for #7.99, alongside Heavenly Bodies (the Earthworks Compilation) also for #7.99. The perfect opportunity to explore Earthworks if you haven't already (oh dear.... sales pitch). There's also a section for Iain Ballamy's work and Bruford's work with Yes (including the 4CD Yesyears Box Set for #57.99, or with the video that goes with it for #72.99). Thanks The Webmaster ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:07:21 -0600 From: "Paul Zahn" Subject: Bashing the "New" KC I have been reading these posts for sometime before and after the KC/JPJ show here in St. Louis and have come to the conclusion that those who are bashing the current line up of KC just don't get it. KC is and always has been about evolving musically and "pushing the envelope". That's one of the reasons why I'm glad they didn't rehash alot of the older material. They're moving on like it or not. While I have always been a fan of TL and BB, to compare the two rhythm sections is like comparing apples to oranges (or Fenders to Gibsons). They are different. I love the new stuff. When I saw the show here I was speechless for a while afterward. AMAZING!!!! Meanwhile, JPJ, while enjoyable, made me yawn. The mix was horrid. I couldn't even hear Nick! And even though it was fun hearing instrumental Zep stuff, it came off to me as kind of "kitchy" The rest of the compositions were pretty loose jams (not nearly as structured as KC) and the mandolin version of "Since I've Been Loving You" was OK but went on too long. KC came out and shimmered.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:45:33 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Douglas Subject: In Defense Of Ol' Papa Bear If people want to be sufferingly anal about how many "wrong notes" are played live, they need to give up their concert tickets for someone far more appreciative, and listen to their music at home. Given the complexity of the material, mistakes can and will occur - these are people, not gods or machines! Anyone out there think every KC song was cut in the studio in one take? Yeah, sure... Tony must be doing SOMETHING right with his skills, cause he stays busy working with Peter Gabriel and Bill Bruford. Funny thing...neither artist wants to tour without T-Lev in the band. How do ya like that? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:48:56 -0600 From: "Damon Jones" Subject: Need help with Collector's Club Hi- When you purchase a membership, can't you use some of the $96 deposit on old club releases? My wife got me the KCCC membership as a gift recently. Although they billed her, we never received any instruction on how the club works. Today I went to the DGM website to order a couple of old releases, but it asks me for a credit card number, as if I don't have $96 in credit. It's also weird that they're priced at $0, and they never ask me to prove I'm in the club. Can anyone help clue me in? Thanks in advance. -DJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:30:47 -0500 From: "Guertin Pierre" Subject: Tony Levin aTTTaKKKK :-( I was going to respond to this Michael Destefano nobody about his provocative insults towards rock's greatest bass man but Trey Gunn beat me to it. Wow, who better can do it!!! Anyway, let me just add that from a fan's point of view (I'm no musician by a long shot), TL's record speaks for itself. If he wasn't that good, he would'nt be that much in demand. And Fripp would'nt have chosen him in the first place back in the 80's. By denigrating TL this guy is denigrating RF's ability to discern a good musician from a bad one. I trust RF's jugement. Apart from being a great bass man, he's not a bad writer also. I've just finished reading his book and it's very intersting: it's full of good stories of his touring with the various bands he's been with; it's got lots of tips for bassists and musicians in general; and, adding to the respect I already had for this man, a few stories about his bicycling adventures (seems he's pretty good at that). Actually, perhaps we should be thankful to Michael D. because now ET will (I hope) get meany posts about how great TL is!!!!!!! ;-) PS: Our Josette is getting more and more intriging. She stands out amongst us. Now Josette, what we need are a few jucy stories about Crimso alumi, if any. Don't invent anything. Maybe Bozz is on your list? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:30:57 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Merch at shows.. Hey Gang... I need some help here, guys. How much are the KC shirts on this tour, what do they look like? And how much is the Level 5 CD? What else do they have to buy? Programs? Pins? Any help would be greatly appreciated! I hope to get to that show on the 14th...just gotta talk Dad into going... They dont have much, unfortunately. They have the level 5 cd which is a ridiculous 15 dollars, which is too much for a full length cd let alone an EP. they have shirts for 25 dollars, the level 5 shirts: black and green with the cover of level 5 (the 2 guys in gas masks in front of a field or something) and it says "level 5" and "king crimson" with the tour dates on the back. the other shirt is a black shirt with a small red oval that says King Crimson inside with the cover of ITCOTCK on the back. they are also selling Pats new cd, whatever the hell that is, BMP&M: XtraKcts & ArtifaKcts , apparently pat and this computer dude kind of remixes samples from live crimson stuff or something, they have a post card describing it with a funny cartoon of Pat. They are also selling Trey Gunns new cd i think. They have a sticker, but only one: the big red discipline logo for 3 dollars. and i think that about covers it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:50:44 -0800 (PST) From: dr james Subject: SMACK!! I think this post stops here. chris "he knows when to shut-up" jones thanks, trey, for taking the time to say what is right. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:47:10 +0000 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: Re: T-Lev flames In ET 911 Michael Destefano opines: > One thing that really annoys me is the constant praise Tony Levin > receives! Well, that'll be because he's incredibly good at what he does! If I could have one musician's abilities copied to myself, it would probably be Tony's: I have rather diverse and catholic tastes in music and a fascination with the low parts, and I never cease to be amazed how he can play the right thing in so many different genres and styles. > In fact, why does he spread himself so thin? (does he love to play, or get > paid?). I can't speak for him, but the impression I get from his road diaries and book is he loves to play. He's done jobs for some of the biggest names on the planet, yet is still happy to climb into a rental van with the CGT and play clubs. > I know that picking out mistakes sounds petty, but when I watch or > listen to a performance, alot of my pleasure comes from seeing how many > times mistakes occur. The less mistakes, the more enjoyable the performance > is, especially on the tough parts. One thing I especially love about Tony's playing is he seems to realise better than most when less is more. Like Charlie Haden, T-Lev incorporates silence into parts where it helps them. There's a Frippism quoted in the BPM&M CD cover to the tune of simplicity is the hardest thing to do well, so best to keep it complicated... T-Lev's good enough to keep it simple when it helps, which means some of the toughest parts he's devised have space where he plays nothing at all: how do you spot "mistakes" in there? I see Trey has replied to the original post, so maybe he's reading and perhaps could say how easy he finds playing the bottom end of "One Time"? After all, it doesn't have many notes, and isn't very fast, so it must be easy, right? ;-) Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 05:41:13 EST From: GORTAY at aol dot com Subject: Gordon Haskell As a lot of E.T readers are from outside the UK you might not be aware that Gordon Haskell has a new record out. Its a single called "How Wonderful You Are" and some people are tipping it to be the UK Christmas number one single. That's a bit optimistic, specially as there is talk of a re-release of "My Sweet Lord" but even so it must mark one of the greatest comebacks in history. The song itself is a slow, bluesy, bar song reminiscent of John Martyn and, I have to say, is really good. The monochrome video has been played on BBC2 and shows him singing in a back-street bar which has more attractive young women than one might normally expect. He's been covered in some UK papers so if you want more info I'm sure you can find it. I used to have the solo album he did after leaving Crimson - the title escapes me - and it must be said he's improved with age. Can't write any more because someone's asked me to produce an "Introduction to KC" tape for them. I need help...... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:52:24 +0100 From: "aron 2.4" Subject: Re: tony levin Maybe you would prefer machines playing the music. O, i forgot, even machines make mistakes and get out of sync. In reality mistakes don't exist, it's all about the moment. The moment is always accurate. But Trey s aid it best, listen to the man. "Tony's 'feel' is utterly unique and unquestionably powerful." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:35:27 -0600 From: Craig Radi Subject: Re: tony levin >to: "Michael Destefano" >re: Subject: TONY LEVIN I have been a long time reader to this group and I just have to pipe in on this thread to Mr. Destefano. You are more then welcome to your opinions and views on how you perceive music to be. But I do believe you are missing the total experience of music in your life. It is my belief that "Flaws" in music is what makes music grow. Someone just didn't come up with all the ways of playing music in the past or today without making a mistake and saying to themselves, "Wow, that sounds different". That said, to point a finger at one musician and say he or she is better because they play without mistakes is missing the total sum of all the parts in a musical piece. I have only seen KC twice in my life, once in 74 and as of late in Madison last month. Both performances, had it's share of technical "Flaws" either sound wise or performance. But these minor flaws did not take away the power and overall inspired performances from the musicians that played. Mr. Gunn stated that "Tony's 'feel' is utterly unique and unquestionably powerful" and I for one have to agree with him. It is this ability to "Feel" that makes one musician stand out from the next. So in closing Mr. Destefano, I encourage you to open your mind to all aspects of music and don't sour it with obsessive scrutiny.. You might discover something good underneath it all. Regards Craig Radi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:10:15 -0500 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Both Gunns Blazing In ET #912, Trey Gunn (no joke!) says, > Because sports is measured in the world of quantities -- speed, and > distance. Music is not. Nothing about Music is measurable. To listen to > Music through your ears must be agony. At the Beacon, my friends and I were going to score every song, like at the Olympics, by holding up signs: "5.8, 5.9, 6.0, 6.0, 5.4-- ooh, the East German judge up in the loge apparently didn't care for 'Vrooom.'" But OK, now we won't. Good post all around though. I've always kind of fancied the mistakes, especially in an ensemble setting, as you get to see how the ensemble reacts to the "fly in the ointment." Sometimes the most memorable, magical moments are borne of such "mistakes", and the responses thereto. Lastly, Mr. Gunn asks the original poster if he has any idea what "good time" is. I do, I do! It is what I plan on having Thursday night. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:14:39 -0500 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Chicks In ET #912, the coquettish Josette comments: > It's very obvious that these light hearted "girly" posts of mine are > out of sync with the vast majority of serious analysis and comparisons of > former Vs current lineups of musicians by the 99% male audience that I've > seen at shows who post here! Josette, may I be one of the first to say, "Thank God for that!" ------------------------------ From: "Thompson T. Terry, Jr." To: "'newsletter at elephant-talk dot com'" Subject: bashing T-Lev? Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:36:30 -0500 Yo, Crim-folk! I don't often post here but feel compelled to respond to Michael Destefano's uninformed and mean spirited jab at Tony Levin in ET#911. Tony Levin receives constant praise is he is consistently an excellent musician and performer. Were he not of superior caliber, why is he so in demand and "spreading himself thin" by performing with so many different artists and in so many different situations? Michael, as you said: "The man is a professional musician capable of assimilating into many different situations." Clearly other professional performers don't feel Mr. Levin drags down their shows. You want a "perfect" performance where time isn't lost? Get yourself a music box, wind it up and watch the dancing bear spin. Careful, it may slow as the spring winds down on you and "lose time." Oh, and stay far, far away from any improvised music; its "imperfection" in both timing and harmonics just might reach out and bite you. You want perfection, as in the same performance, every time? Stay home and play CDs; the live setting where human creativity (and failings) is not for you. Gadzooks, living in this world with all its "imperfections" must annoy you to no end. You, Michael, question Tony as an artistic force? Mr. Levin demonstrates he is more than merely capable of artistry. Listen to what he plays and how he plays it (yes, you can refer to CDs at this point, I won't insist you "suffer" through one of his live appearances) whether music composed in his own name or in support of another artist/group. He is uniquely gifted and impressively talented. His artistry shines like the sun. I've had the good fortune to see Tony play and was mightily impressed by his warmth and humility expressed through his performance of the music and in his interactions with the audience. To borrow from you: I, for one, am happy _you_ are somewhere far from Mr. Levin. In all the myriad senses of the meaning here. Thompson Terry Ithaca, NY USA mailto:tterry at palisade dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:47:52 -0500 From: "Thompson T. Terry, Jr." Subject: btrey gunn re tony levin Wow! All the gushing and praise going on around here, and "I" get a response from Mr. Gunn himself! First of all,my post was meant to get reaction--I offer no apologies for any opinions stated. How valid were the comments? I guess thats up to individual opinion(there's that word again). I believe that music is a relationship between the physical and the intellectual.I am the last person to drool over technical prowess, but when a performer works within certain contexts, he is obligated to keep up to the standard. Mr. Gunn,I'm sure you spent many hours practicing scales and other technical exercises so you could play up to the standards expected by your bandmates. The demands that kc puts on a players abilities has to be tremendous, so please don't give me the "sometimes we suck" speech. Everybody sucks--those who deny, lie. What does "good time mean"? We all are given gifts, some have voices, others have natural rhythm. There are plenty of musicians who don't have great natural rhythm--in turn they may not involve themselves in groove oriented music.This doesn't make them any less a musician, in fact, understanding your weakness should strengthen your resolve to overcome. Circumstance has granted many people different levels of fame,it doesn't make their opinion any more or less valid, except when answering personal queries. I get a little sick of the "Hey this is expression and all about the feeling"..........Fine!!! Improvising has it's place, playing and weaving in and out of grooves is thrilling, when it works---when it doesn't it can be a trainwreck. I for one don't care very much for trainwrecks, or live shows for that matter.( give me forty minutes and no more) Rather,spend a year in the studio, craft your art to its highest degree, infuse life into the pieces by becoming the parts. A composer infuses emotion into the notes and rhythms by isolating and mirroring his own inner conflicts, then using various techniques to represent what he feels. When a band records an album, they need to understand how to best represent (not recreate) the music in a live context. When I look for mistakes, its usually in the context of "how much do these guys really care about their art" If you believe in your music, then please have the sense to represent it with as much thought as went into recording it. Mr. Gunn, I am far from a souless dolt. I hold what you and the others do in high regard, but nobody is beyond criticism or opinion. For all the confidence you have in your beliefs and abilities, mine are just as strong, and valid(opinions, like words are only vehicles that take us to places we normally wouldn't go to) Thompson Terry Ithaca, NY USA mailto:tterry at palisade dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 02:43:53 -0500 To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com From: J A Sontag Subject: GIG REVIEW/COMMENTARY: Philadelphia PA 11 Dec 01 Tuesday's KC/JPJ concert at the Tower Theatre left me with mixed feelings. The word that keeps coming to mind is "but". JPJ played well - but... it seemed the two most effective songs were the oldest ("That's The Way") and the newest ("Freedom Song"). What did they have in common? Vocals. JP is obviously a great riff man, sets up songs well, and can play all manner of instruments as accompaniment or lead, but... the final impression more often than not is that you have a finished song just waiting for the vocal track. Nowhere was this more obvious than on "When The Levee Breaks". Only a few of the compositions (like "The Smile Of Your Shadow") really seem to be thoroughly effective as pure instrumentals. The use of the slide to play the vocal line on "Black Dog" is clever, and works well - but it's really a trick you can only do once. Some incredibly talented musicians work best as a member of a band rather than as the leader of a band, and I believe JPJ fits in that category. Incidentally, the sound quality was not bad at all, considering how much low end the band was putting out on most of the songs. That much low end is always going to have a tendency to mush together, but there was enough fidelity so you could usually follow the actual notes, rather than just the feel a riff ascending or descending. I have heard MUCH worse at the Tower - when I saw the Double Trio there the poor sound quality essentially ruined the first third of the show. This was definitely acceptable. KC was neither at their best nor worst tonight; the energy didn't really seem to start flowing until "The ConstruKction Of Light" (which was played beautifully), halfway into the set. That was quite possibly influenced by an incredibly painful abscessed tooth which Belew was suffering from, which he told the audience about just before "Thela". I am sure it is was also the reason that "Thela" was the last song - no second encore of "Red" tonight, but that is easily forgiven under the circumstances. (Nevertheless, Belew's voice sounded as good as I have ever heard it. An excellent night for the vocalist.) Once the energy started up, though, it pretty well stayed with the rest of the show. "Larks' 4" was excellent, and "Deception Of The Thrush" and "Thela Hun Ginjeet" were possibly the best live versions of those songs I have heard. Technically, there was at first a problem with Belew's guitar being buried in the mix, but that was corrected by the end of the end of the second song ("Frying Pan"), and the sound was very good from that point on. (BTW, from some previous postings I had gathered that Fripp was fairly well hidden in the back corner. That certainly wasn't the case tonight - he was right up on the front line with Belew and Gunn. He did sit sideways from the audience's perspective, but he was not hidden behind his array of equipment.) So where is the big "but" about the show? In the new compositions. Not that they were bad, but you've heard it all before, and more inspired, on the TCOL album. In ET 911 Glenn Gamblin wrote, "The long and short of it is, King Crimson in this incarnation is done. There are no new ideas, unless you count "Dangerous Curves" which is more or less, um....boring." He has a point. Is it time for KC to move on - maybe on to the direction some of the ProjeKcts (especially 2 & 3) took? For tonight's show, give KC a B+ for performance, and a C for originality. They can do better. Jeff ------------------------------ From: "Jordan Clifford" To: Subject: GIG REVIEW: New Haven 12/9 -very long Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 02:32:57 -0500 WARNING: Unneccesarily Long GIG REVIEW.. bare with me! includes review of merch, random complaints, and my jaded overview of the concert dragged out for a while. enjoy! First of all let me just say that there is NO WAY this concert couldnt have worth it because all the New Haven people got to pay a mere 40 dollars in total for this show, as opposed to the OUTRAGEOUS cost of the other shows. so i am very thankful for that. and while i try not to go to shows that cost 40 dollars unless its something special, i dont think i have to tell you people KC is more then something special. Anyway, the venue was great. id never been to the Palace before, though i almost saw a few bands play there (including jazz troupe Medeski Martin and Wood back a few years ago.. that would have been a treat). Its intimate enough, and its just a great size. I had a really good seat in my opinion, in the center of row H in between some people who were maybe more then three times my age (im 18).( No one my age, or in my group of friends is cool enough to wanna go, or at least pay 40 bucks for a band they've hardly ever heard.) The man sitting next to me was the only guy i saw wearing ear plugs. Everyone there was basically just as old. But i was expecting that. I saw a few younger guys my age, a few more girls then i suspected and a few people who were obviously part of a family being exposed to the show by enthusiasts. it was a nice atmosphere. first things first: went straight for the merch. i couldnt wait to get a hold of the Level Five cd. Somehow i thought it would be a good idea not go to to the ATM first cause if worst came to worst i thought they've have an ATM in the place especially if they are selling drinks for like 6 bucks and merch for so much. Unfortuantley after i got the CD and a very nice Discipline logo sticker i realized i didnt have enough (5 dollars short) for a tshirt. I was very disapointed in the merch they had. One of my biggest complaints about concerts is the RIDICULOUS price they use to RAPE ticketbuyers with at the merch tables. my opinion is that if you are paying so much for a show, especailly if some one payed over 60 dollars, they should get a VIP kind of priveledge and be the only ones to be able to buy the new merch for discounted prices. Shirts should be 10 bucks. Cds should be 10 bucks. EPs should be 5. Rip off those who didnt pay good money to see you, treat the ones who did. Playing off the concert goers Into-the-moment I-gotta-have-this-now-because-im-at-the-show impulse buying is just dirty in my opinion. But i was willing to pay for a sticker, a shirt and a cd so what can i say? i was hoping they would have a lot of their shirts and stickers, and cds there for sale but they didnt. The ITCOTCK shirt was pretty cool, but it didnt have the quote like i was told. Luckily there werent that many morons yelling stuff out at this show. at least not during crimson. During JPJ people yelled requests for some Zep songs, but thats about it. During Crimson somone yelled out "play 21st century schoid man!".. now that is a waste of time. after the first song when Adrian addressed the crowd someone yelled "YO ADRIAN!", like Rocky, and i got a kick out of that. Someone commented that they hate people yelling out names of old songs during the set. I kind of agree, i kind of dont. i dont like bands with regimented set lists, but its to be expected when a band like KC has been playing for so long and have all this new material they are excited to play. i found myself taking an oppertunity to requesting "Indiscipline", because i honestly thougth i had a shot at hearing it. But now hearing that at some shows they ddint even play "thela" i feel even luckier. In restrospect i knew KC werent taking requests, but i was in the moment.. sorry if i pissed anyone off, it wasnt during the music. I wont go into JPJ too much cause every single show has been reviewed already, but they were awesome. couldnt hear the Stick as much as i wanted to but it was still good. very cool stuff, i was very impressed having never heard his solo stuff. and his humorous banter with the crowd and what not made the atmosphere more fun. King Crimson took the stage and i was just prepared for the ride of a lifetime having never seen them before. Very excited to hear new material, maybe old material, and what they can do live, i was not disapointed. The first song was great, as everyone alreadys knows: Dangerous Curves. The next song, well, i personally am not the biggest fan of all the TCOL material, and i could have done without hearing Frying Pan. Im just glad they didnt play ProzaKc Blues. My biggest complaint about this show is WHY THE HELL DIDNT THEY PLAY FRAKCTURED!?!?! if they were gonna play one song off that album why not that one? its the best song on the album, and it sounds like the most fun to play. at least they played Larks Tongues. but still, my god.come on now guys! that seems to be Fripps time to shine, considering I felt that Belew took a good deal of the incredible guitar solos. Next was EleKctric, or however its spelled, which was one of the highlights. The two guitars playing back and forth was great. Skipping ahead: Dinosaur was exciting to hear, not the best live version ever but it was still great. Then Thela Hun Ginjeet.. that was great. I was VERY pleasantly surprised to hear the voice over track from the album played in the back ground. Then Belew RIPPED shit up on his guitar, his guitar crunching solos were great on that song, and he broke a string too! which while it prevented his guitar in the song for a minute it was still pretty neat. Im guessing Virtuous Circle was the song i thought was being improvised. Belew on those electronic hand drums or whatever he had was great. you might say it BELEW my mind. hahaha how clever am i? I noticed that the guy next to me was using the method i described in an earlier post about drug use of creating your own mind expanding.. by closing your eyes so your brain can take you on its own ride without focusing on anything. knowing full well that there wasnt going to be THAT much moving or stage theatrics, i endulged on numerous occasions, but this guy had is eyes closed the entire set. for all i know he was on drugs, who knows. if i was on drugs my head would have exploded. I am not going to go into anything about song parts sacrificed for the new band, or trey and pat not being tony and bill, or the fine details of the sound. the sound was incredible to me, except, unless it was just fripp, what fripp was doing wasnt always as clear over the rest of the players. Back to the set list - like i said before, THRAK and VROOOM could have almost been on TCOL.. maybe not but you know what i mean. So the encores were great, obvioulsy it was great to see Red live. My second biggest complaint: they played for like an hour and 15 minutes! it was WAY too short! i know they are old, well i know Fripp is pretty old, and Belew is getting older, but a band like that should be smokin for a good 2 1/2 hours. showing off all their live skills. the lack of improv was extremely disapointing as well. I really do love this group, i think they are very tight and making great music, but they have lost some things that i thought were being reborn when the double trio started: improv. New Material: excellent. Better then half the stuff on TCOL in my opinon, but maybe thats just after hearing ti once live, mind you. And while i love this new stuff, and i liked the TCOL material, i hope that somewhere along the line KC moves not exactly beyond, but toward another direction. Dont get me wrong I totally dig this stuff b ut i dont want to have to introduce the double duo as an dark, heavy industrial "nouvo" metal band to people. know what i mean? Thats what they are gearing towards now, and thats not bad, its just not the only thing they should be. I was glad to hear Desception of the Thrush and Virtuous Circle as more spacey songs, but their material is , to put it bluntly, is fuckin heavy shit. Thats it for me.. sorry it was so damn long. for those of you who read it, i commend you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:19:33 -0500 From: "Tim" Subject: GIG REVIEW: 12/11 Philadelphia A bit of funny business tonight: At the end of the set someone threw a T-shirt up to Adrian (nice catch!). He looked at it, showed it to Fripp, who looked at it then scrunched his face as if to say "Oh my...". He then took the shirt and placed it around his neck. After Thrush, Adrian came back on and explained to the audience that he had an abscessed tooth that it had been killing him all night. He offered $20 to anyone in the audience who would come backstage and punch him in the mouth. Upon asking if there were any takers, an exuberant Fripp could be seen madly waving his arm in the air. Belew turned to him and said, "Not you, you already got a f-#%$-ing T-shirt!" Adrian went on to explain that the T-shirt said "King F-%$#-ing Crimson", and had HIS picture on it (pointing to Fripp). Belew asked "Why not a group shot?!" As for the show itself, much fun as usual. The sound seemed like it was continuing to be a problem, at least early on. In Frying Pan, the only thing we could hear were the drums and vocals-very bass heavy. One Time seemed to derail in the bridge section, but the ending was one of the better ones I have heard. The new material, however, was absolutely stunning. They continue to build off of ideas presented on TCOL, etc., and yet new ideas and textures are being introduced. This incarnation really seems to be hitting its stride and finding its own voice. It's a great shame that Electric isn't on the Level 5 CD (but you still need to pick it up anyway, it's tremendous). LTIA IV and Level 5 itself (let's not kid ourselves-Lark's Tongues in Aspic V!) were breathtaking. The Deception of the Thrush. This has got to be my current fave-a bit of a new arrangement this time (during the first section), and a jaw-dropping solo from Trey. Wow!! But only one encore last night (Adrian's tooth? A relatively subdued crowd?). The crowd was a bit odd, many people leaving (or getting a beverage of their choice) continuously throughout the show. I got the feeling that many people had come to see JPJ and then left. Oh well. But we had a great time. Cheers! ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #913 ********************************