Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #911 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 911 Tuesday, 11 December 2001 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: extra ticket to DC show Just Some Thoughts Attendance new stuff/old stuff in set Level 5 release on DGM Phish and King Crimson The Crimson Court MP3 page. Re: Phish and KC Thanks and help! Hugh Banton? TONY LEVIN Reply to Mark and Mark Boston set list Math Rock? Re: King Crimson Groupies GIG REVIEW: Orpheum, Boston, December 8th GIG REVIEW: New Haven, Dec. 9 GIG REVIEW: Boston 12/8 GIG REVIEW: Boston 12/8/01 GIG REVIEW: Boston and New Haven GIG REVIEW: comments on Cleveland show GIG REVIEW: KC in New Haven--12/10/01 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:46:45 EST From: BigD831 at aol dot com Subject: GIG BIZ: extra ticket to DC show I have one extra ticket in the orchestra section available for the show at Lisner Auditorium. Please e-mail me if interested. ~Daniela -- bigd831 at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:20:07 EST From: Kissman24 at aol dot com Subject: Just Some Thoughts Hey Gang... I need some help here, guys. How much are the KC shirts on this tour, what do they look like? And how much is the Level 5 CD? What else do they have to buy? Programs? Pins? Any help would be greatly appreciated! I hope to get to that show on the 14th...just gotta talk Dad into going... I saw the car commercial with Thick As A Brick in it (it sounded a bit different...re-worked for the commercial, evidently). I live in New York, so I dunno if it's only in the States or not. Anyone else looking forward to the new Blind Guardian single coming out (in the States, it's out in Europe) in a few days as much as I am? Sorry, random thought... I hear Iced Earth came out with a new box set in Europe recently. Does anyone have it? How is it? I'd really love to hear more information about it. Speaking of Box Sets, how about the new KISS set? Anyone have that? How's it sound? [ OK, private email replies only on the KISS thing please. There is *NO WAY* we are going to have a KISS thread on ET. :-) I don't care HOW LONG the guy's tongue is. -- Toby ] Sorry for going way off topic here, guys... ---Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 23:00:05 EST From: JasJohns22 at aol dot com Subject: Attendance Greetings, Gentlemen PULLEEZE give RF a break...... It's not too apparent that his 'reticence' is no more than 'shyness' STOP whining about volume...... Bring some earplugs if you're not used to loudness DON'T condemn/apologize for drug use..... Either you can handle it or you cannot, in spite of the band LEAVE your partners and children at home Taste is acquired, not indoctrinated ENJOY your experience or not...... Show some maturity if you have any THANK YOU "Brevity is the soul of wit" Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 02:08:22 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: new stuff/old stuff in set >Thela and Red are good, but I don't know if they're good enough...We'll see. Well, I assumed they wouldnt play OLD stuff from completely different band line ups in the 70s, except i knew they would play red. I think if they can play Red they can play every song off Red, and for that mater ever 70s song.. but thats not their style right now, they picked Red i think because its so heavy and closely related ot a lot of the newer material. however i think Fracture would work anywhere. Fancy guitar work is fancy guitar work. plain and simple. But i was disapointed that the only 80s stuff, which i dont consider old stuff, was Thela. I REAAAAAALLLY wanted to hear Indiscipline. like REALLY wanted. and elephant talk would have been nice. Why not semi new/semi new stuff. why all new stuff? Dont get me wrong, i LOVED the show. i mean , anyone could complain about anything in life, just like i can complain about this KC show. but i loved it, i was very impressed. Ill post my review of it tomorrow cause im tired now (mind you im not tired from the show because it ended at 10:45 or so... tisk tisk!), but i just wanted to say, its not just that they dont play really Old Stuff, they dont play sorta new stuff either. Where was VROOOM and THRAK and B'BOOM or anything like that? that fits perfectly.Indiscipline fits perfectly for any KC show. i really loved hearing Dinosaur live, and Thela, but still. Once again, im fully satisfied, but i could complain some more.. like, no improv? i thought i heard a really good improv , but that could have been a space song i didnt recognize too well. but, ill end it here. The New Haven show, while very short, was excellent. gig review to come.. maybe. by the way the sound was, to me, incredible. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 02:17:34 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Level 5 release on DGM >I was not able to attend the recent shows, does antone know where I can get >a copy of the Level 5 CD. DGM web will be selling them for a limited time after the tour ends, and it ends on the 14th i believe (unfortunately). at least thats what i read on DGM web. Its a GREAT cd. unfortunately they didnt put Electrik on there.. that was one Incredible song! 15 dollars for an EP is pretty hefty in my opinion.. but what can you do? i could have downloaded it (i have a site you can get it off if anyone is desperate and cant buy it or burn it from someone.. there is also some kind of new bootleg called the Dangerous Curves Bootleg.. from the one song i downloaded its not great quality but it has songs on it that L5 doesnt have.. anyway..), but i like the cover and its a nice piece of limited edition memorabilia... plus its hand numbered, how cute. it wont be hand numbered off the website i dont think though. oh well ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:22:39 -0700 From: "Moshier, John T" Subject: Phish and King Crimson In follow up to a couple of recent posts, King Crimson has been one of Phish's many influences. Guitarist Trey Anastasio lists Fripp along with Hendrix, Garcia, Allman and Zappa as one of five guitarists who have most influenced him. Anastasio is most impressed by Fripp's "midrange tone." Anastasio, who is a former drummer, also took to performing with a mini drum kit on stage with him after seeing Adrian Belew do it with King Crimson. Phish Drummer Jon Fishman is a big Bill Bruford fan, and considers Broof a big influence on his own drumming style. The group has performed a piece known by fans as "Crimson Jam" which I have never heard but which is based on KC material. It may be the "Discipline" based piece Oliass mentions in his Dec 7 post. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:14:07 -0500 From: John Trevethan Subject: The Crimson Court MP3 page. I have set up a station page called "The Crimson Court" on MP3.com which features King Crimson alumni and music. It is at: http://www.mp3.com/stations/crimson_court If anyone finds that I have omitted anyone please email me at the address above. I will periodically be checking to see if any other KC members join the MP3.com ranks, and if so I will add them. I have also thought of setting up a similar page for "The Crafties of MP3.com". However, searches on MP3.com provided no useful information. Suggestions? John Trevethan Robert Fripp Q&A 1/16/00: http://www.antarcticamedia.com/fripp John A. Trevethan A N T A R C T I C A M E D I A www.antarcticamedia.com/studio/john_t.htm john at antarcticamedia dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:22:28 -0800 From: "Mitch Goldman" Subject: Re: Phish and KC > > I used to be into Phish when I was in college, but some of my > college buddies were way into them. They had tons of > bootlegs. One day we were listening to a boot, and during an > improve jam they went into the song "Discipline". It wasn't > exact, but it was definitely that, no doubt. Unfortunately, I > can't remember which show this was, but I asked my buddies > what the song was called and they came up with some different > name. I remembered being annoyed with my friends because > they wouldn't get into KC, but as long as Phish was playing > it, it was cool. Has anyone on the list heard this? > Phish's guitarist Trey is indeed a KC fan, and there is an old Phish tune that is very "Discipline" inspired. It's called "Dave's Energy Guide" and hasn't been played in years and years, and has never been officially recorded or released by the band. MG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:13:51 -0600 From: "McLeod, Jeff" Subject: Thanks and help! Thanks to everyone who responded with suggestions to my "dark prog" quest (i.e. Univers Zero/Present, etc.)! I'd like to add in my request for a Level 5 CD from anyone who would be kind enough to pick one up for me at a show. I'd be willing to pay the cost, plus shipping and any small finder's fee that you might want. If you're kind enough to help (and lucky enough to be attending a show . . . unlike myself!), please respond to me privately at: jeff dot mcleod at yourcall dot com Thanks again! Jeff www.soundandchaos.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:49:22 EST From: RAnder3567 at aol dot com Subject: Hugh Banton? Did my ears and eyes deceive me or did JPJ introduce him as the chap bringing out the various instruments in New Haven last night? Mr. Banton being ex-Van der Graaf Generator, of course! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:05:30 -0500 From: "Michael Destefano" Subject: TONY LEVIN One thing that really annoys me is the constant praise Tony Levin receives! In my opionion while Mr. Levin is a very good all round bass player-he is not an artistic force. The man is a professional musician capable of assimilating into many different situations. In fact, why does he spread himself so thin?(does he love to play, or get paid?). After witnessing him perform live a number of times, the best I can give him is an 8.0. My memory isn't specific, but I've seen him lose time during flourishes, show off and screw up important sections (japan video 1984-sleepless: sorry but this is what you do for a living--dont screw up the important parts) and generally not always hold up his end. I know that picking out mistakes sounds petty, but when I watch or listen to a performance, alot of my pleasure comes from seeing how many times mistakes occur. The less mistakes, the more enjoyable the performance is, especially on the tough parts. If sports can be discussed on all different levels(including all the time spent on problems/weakness) then why shouldn't live endevours be given the same treatment. For example: " for live purposes x simplified the solo because it probably took 25 takes in the studio and his live technique isn't as good ." "on the studio version all the notes are picked----live, x tends to hammer and pull off on the trickier parts." Freddy Mercury would literally change melodies because he couldn't even come close to his studio vocal prowess. Mediocre live ability doesn't mean that you aren't skilled at what you do, your skills might be better displayed on tape. Some of Peter Hammills guitar playing is great, but you and I both know he's pretty much a hack when it comes to being a guitarist . Many times the sum is greater than the individual parts... Anyway I for one am happy Levin is somewhere far away from kc........ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:43:40 EST From: Kissman24 at aol dot com Subject: Reply to Mark and Mark Hey Mark- That Alex kid sounds cool, man. I'm 12 years old, too, and I also idolize Mr. Fripp. I'd like it if I got a pair of Pat's sticks! I truly love the man (Fripp, I mean)...he's made some of the greatest music of our times... Other Mark (heh)- >I suspect youre one of what is most gently referred to here as The Older KC >Fans I'm 12, (lol), but I DO prefer the older KC stuff. A Man A City, Ladies Of The Road, I Talk To The Wind, Epitaph, all that stuff...Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of both the new and the 80's lineups, but it didn't capture, for me, what the 70's lineups had. They were a bluesier band back then, and I love the addition of the sax and stuff that they just don't have anymore....As I've said before, I don't know if I'll be going to that show at the Beacon because, well, I don't really WANT to hear all the new stuff....While I'm on the topic, how much is the Level 5 CD at the shows, and what kinda merch do they have for sale? Thanks... ---Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:44:17 -0500 From: Frank Conte Subject: Boston set list I caught the Boston show on 12/8 and was impressed with the latest lineup. Having lost touch with Crimson's more recent work I'd like to find out if anyone has the set list from the Boston Orpheum Theatre show. Thanks Frank Conte ------------------------------ Date: 10 Dec 2001 18:36:51 -0800 From: adrian at cockcroft dot net Subject: Math Rock? I've seen a few mentions of math rock as a genre, meaning complex mathematically constructed music in strange time signatures etc. (as far as I can tell anyhow). Some of what KC does could fit into this category, does anyone have an opinion on whether this is a useful category? Why do I ask? Our band (Fractal) and some other KC influenced bands are playing a monthly series of gigs and we are struggling with what to call it. Prog rock? Math Rock? We have already tried "Strange Complex Music" and "File Under Other..." The next gig is on Feb 2nd, i.e. 02/02/02 - and that sounds like a good excuse for some Math Rock on its own (in 6/8 time I guess). Suggestions welcome... Adrian http://www.frakctal.com (we had to add the K as fractal was taken, honest :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:09:28 -0600 From: Craig Subject: Re: King Crimson Groupies Miss Josette wrote: >Back in the 70's Fripp was one of the most sought after muscians by the >elite group of girls who just wanted to have a bit of fun Whoa! If you go that far back you could be one of the original GTOs.* .....scary. 8^O) (Some of them have OD`d since. Like the one on the cover of Frank Zappa`s "Hot Rats"..... I believe she was Miss Pamela?) Then, of course, there are The Plaster Casters of Chicago! Purveyors of, er,... 'fine art'. .......... Ever done any plaster casting???? 8^) ~Craig PS: Test: If you are really a `70s groupie.......... Define......... 1)"slaggy" 2)"poxie" NP: G.T.O.s- "Shock Treatment" (from the LP "Permanent Damage") *Girls Together Outrageously ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 21:24:56 -0500 From: "Ryan Tassone" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Orpheum, Boston, December 8th Hi and prepare for a long one, December 8th was my first concert. I'm 19 years old, and I was pretty thrilled to be there...my seat was in Center Orchestra N, which wasn't too bad, but there were tall people in front of me and goofs behind me (I'll expound on that later). The sound quality was slightly midrange-heavy, definitely Belew-heavy (to the point where all of his vocals sounded distorted), and suitably bassy. I don't have any complaints there; I wasn't in pain, and I was just so glad to see my favorite band on stage. Onto the songs themselves! "Dangerous Curves" was the first tune. People in the audience were clapping in rhythm as the boys got on stage, and I couldn't hear what they were clapping to until the techno backing grew louder...a very cool song, appropriate for the soundtrack of a smart film. I guess "Frying Pan" was next. I wasn't impressed much, mainly because they took out that little 16th-note skip that starts every verse, and that was the only thing that made the song interesting to me. Somewhere along the line, they played "Dinosaur," which had to be arranged differenly for the new lineup. Fripp's solo after the pause was fresh and a certain departure from other recorded versions. "Vrooom" came next, I think, which was really nice, especially in the 7/8 arpeggio part. Trey plays the same notes as Tony did, but...it's not the same. It's not better or worse, it's just distinctive, and I suppose I like that. "Marine 475" was tacked on almost as an afterthought, as it lasted scarcely three minutes. At this point, Belew introduced himself as Quincy something-or-other, which got a laugh. Maybe he said the name of the funder of Boston's Quincy Market? I don't know. Then came EleKctriK, which I loved. It seems like now that Trey is the sole bass/stick player, the other two guitarists are incorporating him more and more into their pieces. Instead of the usual two interlocking riffs, now there are three interlocking "oboe" parts (via guitar synth) AND bass (the lower register of Warr guitar). That's impressive! "ConstruKction of Light" was the best live version I've ever heard. Ade seemingly sang without a list of words, never missed a lyric. Pat and Trey mixed it up awesomely during the "pain, day, sky, beauty, etc." bits. They really have a knack for adding rhythmic complexities and odd accents almost whimsically, as if challenging each other and the rest of the group...not to mention the audience. "Lark's 4" was its usual self, instrumental Coda and all (I like it better that way; the album version is pompus to my ears). It got an immediate standing ovation. Adrian looked bowled over with joy, and said thank you's while Robert clapped exuberantly, apparently applauding the audience. My favorite of the new tunes was next, which I assume is "Virtuous Circle." Adrian on that electronic hand-drum was tremendously entertaining! He would hold down a pad and then pull his hand away like he'd just touched a hot skillet, and then slide his finger across the ribbon controllers, tapping gamelan parts with his other hand all the while. This is a standout piece. "The Deception of the Thrush" was an encore piece. Ade was absent. The talking Warr was intriguing to watch...he's not just hitting random notes with the recording, there's a way he brings out particular lines. Spooky. Then, just as the grand slowdown began, and Trey was about to take his solo over Fripp's strings, we hear "bzzzzzzz..." Trey mutes his strings with his hand, and Fripp hurriedly checks all his gear, before turning to Trey with a shrug. Like a ferret on steroids, some road crew guy comes scurrying out, adjusts a knob on Adrian's Strat, which was causing the feedback. Trey warmly applauds the roadie, and the audience gets a good laugh. I guess this time the Thrush decieved us all...well, Trey just began playing, and the spotlights churned around him like some fog. Truly a magical moment. Adrian comes out when the song is done, beaming "wasn't that beautiful?" He cracks a joke, and then introduces "Level Five" as the next piece. Adrian picks up his guitar, testing the waters, and nothing comes out. He goes to the microphone and says, "It should be coming up any second, I know it's around here somewhere." And it did, and it was. Typical 7/4 metal, fast runs between Fripp and Gunn. The show ended with "Red," a wonderful number, especially in the middle part over Fripp's jarring chords, where Pat added some drumming again, and the spotlights scanned the audience ominously. Effective. The downside of the night was the group of college kids behind me who kept making sarcastic remarks between songs, and shouting stuff like "Stairway to Heaven!" or "Prince Rupert!" As if to say, "hey, look at me, I'm a name-dropping attention-monger." Two flashes went off, but I suspect they were from Bill Munyon. How else do you think the shots of the band playing get on this site?? Thanks for reading if you did. Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:54:37 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Sheridan Subject: GIG REVIEW: New Haven, Dec. 9 I will try not to repeat what other reviews of this show will say, so here's a few ideas: 1. The JPJ Orchestra showed how much a trio can do, and also showed quite easily how JPJ has outdistanced his Zep peers - not too tough really when you compare their post 1980-output! His sound was kind of muddy though - the stick player's sound was LOT, you could not really hear his solos, and JPJ 's bass sound was not so clear when all three were playing. BUT - his steel guitar/mandolin/ ukelele playing was VERY clear and remarkably impressive, as was his singing - who knew?! ALso nice was his humor. Someone called out for "No Quarter" and he looked bemused, pointed at his bass and said slowly "BA-A-A-AS." He then mimed keyboard playing and said "PI-I-A-ANO." He then shook his head, shrugged, pointed back at his bass and said "BASS." Classic. During a nice new folky Celticky tune called "Freedom," people kept trying to clap along after every verse and rapidly got lost. This did not deter them from trying and trying again. D'oh! The same thing almost happened when KC began coming out of the soundscape into their opener. Someone tried clapping off to the rubbery syncopation; luckily they stopped. Lots of yelling for requests and some drunken idiots, but I've seen worse. 2. Crimson's sound was VERY clear and as recent setlists have shown, very heavy on newer songs - "Dinosaur" and "Thela" were the "oldies" and of course the last encore "Red." The band was SOOO tight and so HAPPY!! They nailed every song. Adrian broke a string at one point and called out to the Chief to take it! They were really quite pleased. I've never seen Fripp smile so much. At the end of each of the encores, he cupped his eyes to observe the crowd, and even applauded the crowd. This is the only show on this tour I have seen, but I would love to hear this one released, it was that "on." I would like to know if anyone who was there had seen many other shows this tour and could compare. Oh, and to the person who swiped my green fleece jacket (with the Level 5 CD in the pocket, natch)from under my seat, please die painfully, and soon. Jim Sheridan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:00:20 EST From: Enoboy at aol dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW: Boston 12/8 Note to Robert Fripp: If you intend to put out a mediocre performance, don't tour with an opening act that will blow your doors off. I am going to give a short honest report on the Boston show I saw this past Saturday and open myself to the flames that are sure to come. I am a long time Crimson fan and have seen every tour they have done since 1981. I have lauded them when they deserved it and criticized when it was due. I am sorry to report that this was the weakest show I have seen yet. JPJ was stunning. The level of musicianship was very high and the way that JPJ engaged the audience was great. The sound was phenomenal, and you are hearing the opinion of three people in the Pro Audio business. The set just kept building and building, to the point that my friend asked, "Where can Crimson go from here". Well, the answer was DOWNHILL. The band came on and the first thing we noticed was how horrible the sound had become. The sound for JPJ was clean and articulate with great bass; the sound for KC was muddy, harsh and lacking in any bass. Fripp pulled his usual anti-ego trip and buried himself very far down in the mix so one had to strain to hear him. Last year in Boston he did the opposite and his parts were clearly audible. The set was somewhat different from what has been posted about other shows. I think the show was shorter than those listed. The new material was very very good, but the older songs lacked energy. There was very little improvisation and no sense of spontaneity. I am using last year’s concert as a reference point for this version of KC. That show was wonderful and was a showcase for a group that exuded joy in what they were doing and a real connection with the audience. This year was the opposite. As we were leaving the show, I overheard a fellow concertgoer say that he felt the performance was "phoned in". I could not agree more. In their defense, I must say that KC faced a tough crowd. The audience was very noisy and made constant shouts and calls for this and that. (Bostonians and beer do not a polite audience make). If this put off Fripp and he held back (he did not even come to the front of the stage to take a bow), I can see why. I often wish I was back in NYC where audiences understand how to behave. Next time I'll drive the 180 miles to see them there. However, in the end, we all felt that JPJ simply put on a better and more memorable show. I am sure most folks will disagree with me. I have seen KC too many times to count and they have played some of the finest music I have ever seen and heard, but the show in Boston was not one of those occasions. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:21:52 -0500 From: "Gamblin, Glenn" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Boston 12/8/01 From Row 6 center at the Orpheum. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...and it wasn't THAT loud. John Paul Jones and his two-dude orchestra took the stage more-or-less on-time at 7:30, just as most of the crowd had taken their seats. Initially, Nick Beggs took the spotlight for himself - what silly faces he made!! He was a very competent stickster, but I found that his snarling was a bit of a distraction. The material which was unfamiliar to me was fabulous; awesome grooves and great hooks. When it came to the Zeppelin material (especially those which were translated into instrumentals - Black Dog and Levee stand out), JPJ's real prowess stood out BIG. Sure, he can manipulate those 10-string bass guitars (what the heck was that, anyways?) but get him behind that pedal steel and just sit back and dig in! Fantastic. The Electric Uke Blues number was super. I never have seen such an unmoving line for a Men's Room in all my years. Do all KC fans have shy bladder????? I went outside for a smoke and watched a guy puke up his lunch in the alley. Had a good conversation with a newbie and went back inside. A very nice couple, Joe and Leah were sitting next to me - Joe described his wife as a "SPUD: Spouse Under Duress" and, as it turned out, he was right. She later described the concert as "about an hour too long." Steve and his son Tom (NOT Tommy!) sat behind me. Another bunch of awesome people, determined to full participation in the performer/audient relationship. Crimson came out from behind the stage, looking for all the world like a gang of factory workers heading for another night on the graveyard shift. Opening with Dangerous Curves, Adrian and Robert on stools in the semi-darkness, slowly building to full blue...uninspiring...I felt a real drain in the energy field almost immediately. Then I realized where it was coming from: the stage. There were some very high moments during the rest of the performance, but they didn't seem to be able to keep it alive. An attempt at improvisation resulted in some spontaneous clams, loosening the reins a bit and re-energizing the performers...for a time. Encores: Deception of the Thrush was interrupted by a remote-control Adrian feedback solo (he left something plugged in which he shouldn't have - whoops) and Level Five was technically perfect (earlier, LTIA4 was done better than I've ever heard it - Fripp was on every note). I was looking forward to Red - I had heard such good things about it...sorry guys, it plodded. The long and short of it is, King Crimson in this incarnation is done. There are no new ideas, unless you count "Dangerous Curves" which is more or less, um....boring. Glenn G. Gamblin <>< TradePoint Systems, LLC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:29:31 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Stack Subject: GIG REVIEW: Boston and New Haven Good evening. having had the time to absorb the two shows I saw (and put some time between myself and the rather difficult trip home Saturday night with the snow in the area... CT roads were a nightmare...), I think I'm ready to assess the two shows. Since setlists and in depth reviews are teh standard thse days, I'm going to reserve myself to a series of comments about the shows. (1) The New Haven show was one of the best Crimson shows i've seen of the nine times I've seen the band (starting in '95). The first time I saw them (also at New Haven's Palace Theatre...) is the only one that I thought was better than Sunday night. The new material came off much better than it did in Boston, I felt. (2) AB broke a string in Thela in New Haven and stopped playing. This kind of annoyed me, I've seen several guitarists play without a string. Still, his shout of "take it boys!" as he swapped guitars gave me a laugh. (3) The crowd at both shows was somewhat annoying. In Boston, they were loud, in New Haven, they smoked too much. Not to stat any kind of religious wars, but I'm not quite sure why the audience seemed to have no respect whatsoever for the performers. This was annoying. (4) When I first saw the Double Trio, I was unimpressed with TG and PM. They seemed overshadowed by BB and TL. My opinion of TG changed when I heard his solo records, my opinion of PM changed when I saw the TCOL tour last year. Having said that, and heard extraordinary criticism of the two of them, I'm going to address my assessment of them. PM is not BB. Let me phrase that again: PM is not BB. Nor could he be, nor should he be. His drum style is more texture based thatn BB, he may not be as talented a drummer in terms of technical expertise-- I don't think anyone, but he's damn good. And he's inventive. As far as TG, he is not TL. I could state that again, but someone will probably give me a hard time if I do (I expect it, actually). So, having prepared myself, TG is not as strong a bassist as TL. Of course, he doesn't play a bass on stage. I think he takes better advantage of the dynamic range and possibilities of a touch guitar. I think he makes a better use at playing the touch guitar off of itself, whereas I felt that TL reflected the stick as a more versatile bass. Not to say that TL is not a stunning musician, he is. (5) Having stated (4), being surprised that TG and PM play parts differently from TL and BB is not surprising. And quite frankly, I'm happy about that. I don't want to hear a rote reproduction. Music should be alive and interpereted, not how well you can duplicate another musician. (6) I'm glad they don't play older material. the musicians aren't there, and some of those songs sound so dated. I mean, TCOTCK just bleeds it's era, and speaking personally, if I was going to perform it, I'd feel kind of dopey. But I don't get why people are so bitter about the old material not being played. You know what-- it's been 20 YEARS since most of the older material has been performed, isn't it time to move on? Do I love "Starless" as much as the next guy? Yeah, I do. Do I think it makes sense for this band? Not really. And I'm more than happy to accept what RF and co. present me with-- if I ever feel it's crap, I'll let it go. (7) It sounds to me like this group is starting to find its identity independent of the previous groups. TCOL was in many ways a restatement of earlier ideas. The new material seems like its moving in a different direction. (8) I thought JPJ was pretty good, but his set seemed to drag a little. Still, I saw Page&Plant five years ago, and it pretty much ruined Led Zeppelin for me. JPJ seemed twice as good as the two fo them together. That may be about it for me. I thought the shows were fabulous. New Haven was better than Boston, but both were great. mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:39:57 -0500 From: "Kempton, Mark" Subject: GIG REVIEW: comments on Cleveland show I've been away from the web for a while, so this will seem a little late, but what the heck. I attended the Lakewood, Ohio, show on November 30. This was only my second KC show (saw them a year ago in Cleveland, plus AB solo once), so I don't have a huge basis for comparison here. Some notes, however. Trey Gunn noted that the audience didn't seem into the show, and I agree. It started out okay, and when the band played "Thela" (third or fourth song), it completely rocked. The stage and the audience were in sync and clicking. The best version I've ever heard. Unfortunately, this was the peak of the show for me. The band were not very sharp from my vantage. The audience were worse. Additionally, the mix started out horribly. The first song (after the intro - Curves) was Frying Pan. The bass drum was so incredibly loud (and fake-sounding) that it drowned out most of the other music. Just this heavy booming that distracted from the rest of the song. Fortunately, they seemed to address this a little by the time the new song was done. Thela came and sounded perfect. But the show, especially JPJ, was way too loud for my taste. Maybe it was because I was on the flank in front of a speaker, but it was the most uncomfortable show I've been at, sound-wise. I was wishing I had bought some earplugs (but don't lecture me for it - I've had ear problems my whole life and know all about hearing loss). No need for that volume in such a small theater. Maybe it was different in back? But it wasn't all bad. Thela rocked. (Can I say that enough? It was a HUGE surprise.) I had that musical "moment" during Thrush (just like last year) thanks to Trey. Goose bumps! And what I think was an improv was killer until the audience clapped too soon (just like last year!). The instrumental stuff from COL was much improved and very energetic (no hint of cold, technical playing now that they can do it in their sleep). And I love the fact that they're touring the new songs before putting them to tape (at least that's my understanding). That will make the songs more mature. Some of the new stuff sounded too boomy and sloppy (again because of my location in the theater), but the Level 5 CD set me straight. Fantastic! Oh, and the lights were excellent. Much better than last year's laptop-driven slide show! Anyhow, just wanted to make my notes on the Cleveland show. Thanks to KC for trekking back to the North Coast after Robert's awful experience here last year. One more quick note: To the fans who can't seem to go three hours without a cigarette, stay home next time. The reason I attend KC shows is because they're specifically smoke free. I'm allergic to cigarette smoke and enjoy the chance to attend a rock concert with clean air. The bathroom smelled like a chimney, and some of you chicken shits were smoking right in the lobby and the theater. Next time, show some respect or go to some smoky bar to kill yourself. Those of us who respect the band's wishes, and the law, don't need you around. Off the box, mark kempton ps - Forgot to mention my seats were on the left aisle, about 10 rows back. I'm sure this contributed to my thinking the mix was loud and awful. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:21:38 -0500 From: Aaron Moulin Subject: GIG REVIEW: KC in New Haven--12/10/01 First, let me give you the set list (which I happened to peruse over befor the show when I walked by the mixing desk). Dangerous Curves Frying Pan EleKctric TCoL Vector Shift Dinosaur Thela Virtuous Circle Larks' IV 1st Encore Deception of the Thrush Level 5 2nd Encore Red Overall the show was good. I think fair portion of the audience was there to see John Paul Jones. Several people next to me actually left after a few KC songs. The John Paul Jones set was pretty good. Perhaps it was a little louder than it needed to be, but it was well-played. HIs musicians were solid, although the Stick player has some bizarre behavioral patterns. Mr. Jones certainly does play a number of instruments. My only complaint was that he played them all like they were blues guitars. That is to say, he played the ukelele in the same style as the steel guitar, in the same style as the mandolin--which all sounded like a blues guitar solo. It seemed somewhat anachronistic, but I digress. The songs were good, the band solid, and the point came across well. The KC set was good. It didn't floor me, though. I think that mainly had to do with the accoustic properties of the hall--and the volume. There seemed to be very little subtlety in the hall. The nuances of the music seemed lost. It was dissapointing in that sense. The band, however, was definitely tight. They may have even been "on"--I just couldn't hear them clearly enough to tell. Then new tunes are good. They're already somewhat different than the versions presented on the Level 5 CD. In my opinion, the Virtuos Circle on the CD seems to meander and doesn't really find where it thought it was trying to get to. Live, however, the song came across well. Dangerous Curves seems more like a Prelude than a song in itself--perhaps this is what was meant. As for Level 5: I very much concur with Michael Broadman; it sounds like it was meant to be Larks' V. It has very much the same form and "feel" as Larks' IV. This version of Crimson obvious has a "sound". One thing I noticed was a lack of improvisation. Apart from the one vector shift, which lasted about a minute, there was no improvised music. Even Deception of the Thrush feels somehow less improvised. It feels much more like a scripted song now than a lose framework. There were actually disctinct breaks between the three sections--no longer loose connective passages. This somewhat dissappointed me, but the band is apparently moving towards a very groove-oriented framework--albeit, the grooves are rarely in 4. My only complaints were the mixing, volume, and the audience. Some of my fellow audients were, to put it mildly, "toolish". During the middle of Deception, some rather inebriated fellow yelled out "Get On with It." Way to appreciate the moment. So good show, bad sound, mediocre audience. But, I'm still glad I went ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #911 ********************************