Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #906 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 906 Thursday, 6 December 2001 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: 1 ticket for nyc GIG BIZ: Tickets for Boston GIG BIZ: 1 ticket for Boston available OZ Tour?? Re: Intro to KC Re: Drugs and LTIA EARPLUGS!!!!! Belew thoughts on new distortion? Drugs, Music and Mindless Yammering Vrooom Vrooom troubles Pat Mastelotto sighting Sid Smiths Book-In the court of King Crimson The Diary of Robert Fripp SPUDS Pop vs. Mass KCCC reviews? drugs and the devil Introducing KC To The Unenlightened Lesh, and How they Mesh Songs for new KC Listeners GIG REVIEW: Lakewood Civic Aud. ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:12:28 -0800 From: "jack" Subject: GIG BIZ: 1 ticket for nyc I sadly can not make the show on the 13th. I have one great seat. Orchestra , row L, seat 114. This is a killer seat. Hawaii will not let me go. Aloha, Jack Jacdadyo at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:01:57 -0500 From: "Mike Gauthier" Subject: GIG BIZ: Tickets for Boston Hello, I have two tickets for Boston 12/8 ORCH Row U, Seats 112-114. Total cost is face value plus assorted handling charges Ticketmaster always charges - $95.50. Make me an offer. mgauthier at libertyink dot com Mike Gauthier Liberty Publishing, Inc. 800-722-7270 Ext. 153 mgauthier at libertyink dot com ------------------------------ Date: 5 Dec 2001 13:31:53 -0800 From: David Raczka Subject: GIG BIZ: 1 ticket for Boston available I have one ticket for the Boston Show available. Asking face value $40. It is located Center Mezzanine row C seat 209 (3rd. row) Dave the KcranMan cbq57 at altavista dot com 508-737-7236 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:08:44 +0000 (GMT) From: My Brane Hurts Subject: OZ Tour?? >Is it true King Crimson have never played here in >Australia?! >I would like to second John's call for an Aussie tour, please?, cam. And thirded (if thats possible) Andy Perry - Perth, Western Australia BTW somebody else mentioned that they couldn't think of any connection between KC and George Harrison. What about Happy Family on Lizard? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 04:23:20 -0800 From: Marc J Goodman Subject: Re: Intro to KC OK, this is too easy, so I'll be brief: "Elephant Talk"! That would seem to bring one into the fold, wouldn't it? At least you'd know right away if the new listener would like KC as they are at this point - The Ade years and on - 'til now. If he/she doesn't care for Belew's vocals along with mut(il)ated guitars and a hard funky beat, along with a great sense of humor lyrically and musically, I guess there would be other options...anybody? Then, they'd be acquainted with the name of the most informative newsletter and smartest bunch of folks talking about their new favorite band and related topics. This doesn't take into account the "softer, more contemplative" other side of the coin, but once the new listener is hooked he/she will learn that many musical roads are covered in the land of Crim. Marc J Goodman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 04:44:35 -0800 From: Marc J Goodman Subject: Re: Drugs and LTIA Confession time: I don't advocate drug use. Then again, I won't put down any voluntary, well educated decisions that anyone out there would make in the privacy of their own home. That said, I must confess that way back in the '70s I had an amazing experience or two while laying on my friend Barry's basement floor, the site of many an after-school experiment in mind expansion, with all the lights turned out, accompanied by the soundtrack of Lark's Tongues in it's entirety, and totally enjoying the enhanced mental state brought on by some excellant LSD. This was not necessarily the intention of the musicians involved in making this fantastic recording. I have no idea regarding their involvement in this kind of recreational mind expanding experimentation. This was not the only way I could experience this album either, as I listened to it repeatedly since the day I bought it, as I did each previous KC album. However, it was certainly an enjoyable one, and it sure sounded great straight too. There are many flavors in the jelly bean jar. Oh, and SABB was another one... No flames please. BTW, I don't believe any of my indiscretions have effected me in any negative way. I know - I'm one of the lucky ones. Marc J Goodman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 04:51:32 -0800 From: Marc J Goodman Subject: EARPLUGS!!!!! OK EVERYONE. IN CASE YOU DON'T BY NOW - KING CRIMSON IS ONE OF THE LOUDEST BANDS IN THE WORLD TO LISTEN TO LIVE. PLEASE WEAR SOMETHING IN YOUR EARS!!!!! EVEN IF IT'S A NAPKIN YOU GET AT THE VENUE AND ROLL UP TO PUT IN THEM!!!!! IN FACT, PLEASE KEEP THIS IN MINd EVERYWHERE YOU GO WHERE THERE'S LIABLE TO BE SOME KIND OF LIVE MUSIC!!!!! Oh, was I yelling? Sorry. hehe. BTW, I don't go anywhere without mine. I had 'em custom moulded to my ears, which is pricey and not totally necessary. There are cheaper solutions that are very good. Please protect yourselves. Toby, Dan, & Mike, thanks for the soapbox from which I am now coming down off. Marc J Goodman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:09:37 -0500 From: "Travis Flower" Subject: Belew thoughts on new distortion? So, the Danelectro French is Toast is supossed to be a low-cost clone of Adrian's favorite distortion pedal, the Foxx Tone Machine. Often, I'll run across Adrian's opinions of new gear in interviews or advertizements, but I haven't seen anything about the Dan-O. Has anybody seen an opinon by Adrian on this pedal, or do any of you guitarists have a firsthand opinion about it? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 10:00:29 -0800 (PST) From: Ken Makowsky Subject: Drugs, Music and Mindless Yammering Greetings All - I have a few comments I just couldn't keep to myself any longer. 1) The word moron means something specific. To say smoeone is a moron for their opiions on music, drug use or anything else makes you look ignorant. 2) Commenting on things you have no direct experience with is either foolish or dis-honest or both, depending upon the situation. 3) Caffine is a drug. Alcohol is a drug. Asprin is a drug. All of these will effect (affect? I always screw that one up) your experience of ANYTHING, albeit to different degrees, because they change brain chemistry and all experience is filtered through ones brain. What you were doing now, what you were doing 10 minutes ago, these will affect brain chemistry. Additionally, diet will affect brain chemistry as will fasting. Sex, meditation, fighting ... need I go on? 4) I believe that Fripp, like Frank Zappa, tends (tended) toward abstinence, although he's acknowledged some caffine and alcohol use. I believe he's a vegisaurus as well. 5) It seems to me that Fripp complained once of the change in preffered intoxicants that occurred in the early 70's ...away form pot/acid and toward alcohol/cocaine/stimulants, but I could be misremembering this for personal reasons. 6) Please be VERY carefull if you choose to experiment with hallucinagens. Do lots and lots of research so you know what you are getting yourself into. Music, art, literature, all these take you someplace outside of the "real" world if they are of any quality and therefore could be considered drugs. Dancing, religion, watching or participating in sports events ... Do I make my point? Kimsky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:42:10 -0700 From: "Matthew Tedesco" Subject: Vrooom Vrooom troubles Tormented by the fates! I had ordered VV from cdnow and received it last week, only to discover a rather gruesome skip on track 4 of disc 2 (People, from the NYC set) at exactly 4:08. Well, cdnow was kind enough to send a replacement... which arrived 5 minutes ago, and *also* skips at exactly the same spot. Has anyone else had this problem? Later today, I'll be venturing out to buy a copy from a local music store. I'm pretty sure if it skips at the same spot my head will explode. Either way, if you haven't picked up the set yet, I'd advise shopping from somewhere *besides* cdnow. --matt tedesco ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:37:34 -0500 (EST) From: gpcraig at webtv dot net (Jerry) Subject: Pat Mastelotto sighting Last night in Buffalo at the Dixie Dregs show at the Tralfamadore Cafe a friend of mine said to me "The drummer for King Crimson is over there in the corner." I walked over towards the bar and there was Pat at the bar talking to a couple people. Tonight I get to see him again but this time on the other side of the drum kit, and I get to see two incredible shows two nights in a row. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:04:11 +0100 From: "murray walters" Subject: Sid Smiths Book-In the court of King Crimson Hello ET'ers I just received my signed hardback copy of Sids book and i wanted to convey to Sid and the publishers my congratulations on such an excellent production. To read about stories behind certain tracks murray walters e-mail: muz dot walters at swipnet dot se ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 12:05:58 -0500 From: "bowssen" Subject: The Diary of Robert Fripp Greetings Toby and All, I just wanted to ask, and forgive me if its come up earlier and I've missed it, why Robert's diary entries have been all archieves? I enjoy the variety of insight and opinions from the diaries and have missed Robert's for some time now. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? [ RF wrote his Web diary for a fixed period and then stopped. So there are no current and ongoing entries. -- Toby ] Cheers, bowssen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 15:27:16 -0500 From: John Sowerby Subject: SPUDS At 19:46 12/5/2001 +0000, you wrote: >There seemed to be a >fair number of women, many (like my wife) undoubtedly SPUDs (SPouses >Under Duress) dragged along by earnest not-so-young men. I have to say, spotting the SPUDS at a gig is always fun. Funniest had to be spotting them at the Ani Defranco gig in Miami Beach earlier this year. Lots of guys, hang dog expressions, following behind their other halves at about 3m distance.... OK, I was there with my girlfriend, but I was there for the music as well... :-) John S. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:34:52 -0600 From: Albert Oller Subject: Pop vs. Mass Regarding the 'pop is crap' sort of argument that has been going on, I remember Robert Fripp writing, or answering an interview question, along the lines of "popular culture is when we hear something that is good and we all say that it is good. Mass culture is when we hear something that is crap and we all say that it is good." A very rough paraphrasing of his eloquence. Have some fun, Albert ps Short posts are way better than long soft-focus ramblings. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:56:15 -0800 (PST) From: ProgNaut at webtv dot net (Ron) Subject: KCCC reviews? Is there any place online that has reviews of the KCCC discs released so far? Best Regards, Ron Webmaster/ Owner of ProgNaut.com - "a progressive & classic rock fan site" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 05:29:19 -0500 From: "Beth El" Subject: drugs and the devil Back when I first became a Crimson fan (mid '80's), I recall reading some Rock Book of Lists which referred to Crimson as the third biggest drug group of all time, behind the Dead and Floyd of course. I believe this was referring to the state of the audience and not the musicians. As for my own experience, I love the group in all states of mind and have a goal of seeing them in as many as possible. At my first show, I was shocked and disappointed, that when I sparked one up, the girl next tome immediately started coughing, whining and waving her arms frantically about. Oh well, I put it out. No need to impose my smoke on someone else, and as I said, I enjoy them in all states of mind. As for the devil worship questions - as we now hopefully know, "King Crimson" generally refers to Beelzebub. Fripp's spiritual views, I have heard, have been influenced by Theosophist sorts such as Ouspensky and more importantly, Gurdjieff. As we speak, I am awaiting my copy of Gurdjieff's Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson which is a classic "4th Way," "middle path," work of philosophical fiction. The work basically deals with breaking down the illusions which have been forced upon us and reprogramming with different tools for our spiritual and mental development. To those of us that are contend to accept what we have been handed, such books and ideas can seem to be a threat to our very existence. We do not know what may be offered because the results are foreign, and therefore we are filled with fear and immediately are faced with two choices, label it as salvation, or label it as damnation. There is of course another choice not so easily grasped, that is to try it out and see what the destruction of ourselves really brings. Listening to Red the first time back in '84 or '85, I remember being filled with unease, not sure if I liked, but knew I must understand, I must accept the challenge. Making myself understand this weird, complicated music left me as different from when I began as when I first dropped acid. And to quote Belew, "I like it!" Another obvious, well known picture of this rebirthing process is Floyd's, The Wall. To me, Crimson has proven to be a most beloved tool in altering the way I think, pointing out my silly preconceptions and instilling a desire to evolve. Love, Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 18:06:05 -0500 From: "John Spokus" Subject: Introducing KC To The Unenlightened KC's music is just so varied depending on which period you are talking about that it's hard to pick definitive pieces to play to the unenlightened. I can only draw on how I was introduced to offer any suggestions on this matter. I think it was '78 or '79,I heard an early morning DJ on my favorite,but now defunct local college radio station play ITCOTCK. I had heard the name King Crimson before,probably from seeing album covers on those Atlantic record sleeves that showed various records in their catalog. I put two and two together from the lyric and decided this was KC and I liked it.The DJ's on this station seemed to be into the early stuff as I remember hearing Epitaph and ITWOP in the next few weeks. Now I was hooked,both by the grand,epic sound of the music and the quasi-mystical lyrics,my stoner friends and I looked for stuff like that. Anything "mystical"or pagan (well yes I am a witch)was alright by us. I found ITCOTCK on 8 Track in a bargain bin and played it constantly. Soon after I acquired SABB and Red (both on 8 Track)but wasn't quite as into those;they were my after school nap tapes. I think it took many listens before I conciously experienced both releases in their entirety. I think I purchased ITWOP next on vinyl and thought it was a little lame compared to ITCOTCK,too much like it's predecessor only with weaker tunes. But then Discipline came out,my first purchase of a then current KC release. At first I was a little shocked;it didn't feel at all like a KC album,too much like Talking Heads who I was already a big fan of. It wasn't until I saw the band on the Friday's TV show that I "got it" and was hooked by that line-up. A guitarist who I was playing with at the time saw the performance too and that was his introduction to KC,he too was blown away. He came over and wanted to hear more. I played him SABB, to get his reaction to a very different line-up, and he went crazy over "The Night Watch." The early stuff may seem a little dated to fans of current music,so maybe either Discipline or SABB are good starting points to turn someone onto KC. John Spokus Baltimore, MD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:07:48 -0500 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Lesh, and How they Mesh Regarding recent comments on Fripp, Dylan, and Lesh... I'm leaving Dylan out of it, but I've just seen three shows by Phil Lesh and Friends at the Beacon in the last 9 days. They are a great, great band, and I believe anyone who appreciates Crimson live and who listens with open ears at a live Phil Lesh & Friends show would be hard-pressed to disagree. It isn't about complexity versus simplicity, about improvising versus standard setlist, and so on. It is about-- in both cases, I submit-- ensemble playing. Truly great musicians achieving the "groupmind" thing; in the case of Lesh & Friends, a single ten-handed organism; with the current Crim, a single 8-handed organism. It is about incorporating one's individual virtuosity into the whole, about listening, making one great joyous, terrifying racket. The current Lesh line-up is so "in the zone" right now in terms of group dynamic, telepathy, whatever you want to call it, that I am sure that the true music connoisseurs on this list would "get", and appreciate, one of their shows. By the way, in case the Deadhead thing puts you off, in this man's opinion Lesh's current band eats the Dead for breakfast. Not comparing them to Crim, not saying one is or isn't better. Just saying, if you haven't heard them live, you might just be in for a surprise. They might just be two ends of the same stick. By the way, New Year's Eve 2000 (12/31/99), Gov't Mule (Warren Haynes's band; he's one of Lesh's guitarists) played 21st Century Schizoid Man. Small world. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:39:24 -0500 From: "Darin Lemieux" Subject: Songs for new KC Listeners Scott Steele wrote: > >To the uninitiated listener, what single KC track would you play for them > > as an introduction to King Crimson? > > Larks' Tongues in Aspic Part 2 Ummmm.... think again. LTIA pt. 2 is one of my favourite Crimson tracks, but I've tried playing it for new friends to get them into Crimso - and the thing people notice most is that the song has "no structure" - which is true, really. It does have structure, yes, but it's all over the map. It's the song you play for your friends after they've heard Great Deceiver and - now HERE's the song I'd play first, but no one's mentioned it - LAMENT. Lament is the one that would hook almost anyone - it's almost a pop tune, but it has some complex originality of Crim within it. And Fracture is a must - I've had friends sit listening to Fracture with their jaws on the floor in awe of Fripp's playing - and then I tell them the song on S&BB is actually an overdubbed live track and they're shocked. So yeah, The list for me is the following: 1 - lament 2 - great deceiver 3- ITCOTCK 4 - fracture And they must hear all four. Then you can bring in the LTIAs and Schizoid Man and so forth. Thanks for your time, and happy holidays, Darin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 06:27:20 -0500 From: wjhl18 at juno dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW: Lakewood Civic Aud. Well, folks, once again, this review is coming from a ticket holder sitting in the first row, Right in front of Fripp! What can I say...These performances were absolutely fabulous. I didn't expect to see a show that compared to the 1981 Oberlin University Finney Chapel show (how can you beat KC from the 3rd pew?), but I was, once again, completely astounded by the level of musicianship I was witnessing. JPJ far and away surpassed all expectations. I had no idea how much of Zepplins' overall "tone" was directly attributable to this man, but the quality really came through...What a talent. And much deserved Kudo's to his band mates. Tasteful Stick playing is pretty rare even these days, but this guy (whoever he was) was superb, as was the drummer. Someone shouted out "You don't need Page & Plant" during the show. Indeed. When KC took the stage, I was pleasantly surprised at how well mixed the sound was (at least from my vantage point), having read a number of complaints about the show being "bass heavy" and "too loud". These problems seem to have been addressed, all all sound levels were balanced and comfortable. Adrian Belew seemed the most profoundly changed since '81. His overall performance was somehow different...He really came across not only as the "showman" of the band, but I would have to say more of a "co-leader"...Confident, brilliant, and in full control. Adrian gave a remarkable performance, this time omitting the lyrics to "Coda" out of respect, I presume, for the passing of George Harrison. Pat Mastolotto and Trey Gunn both proved themselves to be the right men for their respective jobs. They both played so flawlessly that their presence while visually overshadowed, proved to be the perfect counterpoint to their band mates. ...Then there was Bob... People, anyone concerned about age issues affecting his ability to entertain need say no more. NOBODY PLAYS GUITAR LIKE ROBERT FRIPP. NOBODY EVER HAS, NOBODY EVER WILL. The man is simply one of a kind. I have seen 3 KC concerts in my life (Finney Chapel, '81, League of Crafty Guitarists, Odeon club, '91, and this one) and each of these shows were exhilarating in a totally unique way that is very hard to describe...but totally attributable to the mastery of Robert Fripp. Another unforgettable performance and another high point in my life. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #906 ********************************