Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #904 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 904 Monday, 3 December 2001 Today's Topics: NEWS: Sid Smith's new Crimson book is out NEWS: articles of interest to KC fans Re: reply to previous Anti-RED post Reply to the Anti-RED In memory of... and ear candy More youthful tripe. Starting KC from 1981 Favourite bands Re: Crim Fan sob story Tim's Query Re: Introduction to KC King Crimson / Mp3 ? Re Foreign Tours Re: drugs and prog KCCC for the not-so-fanatic Re: Dylan & Lesh & Fripp Club Hopping Initiation replay to "Red - Again" Hey there! Two responses, two comments collector's club Progressive Rock Incredible birthday! ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 22:29:21 -0600 From: "Toby Howard" Subject: NEWS: Sid Smith's new Crimson book is out Sid Smith's new book, "In The Court Of King Crimson" is now out, published by Helter Skelter, ISBN 1-900924-26-9. That's the news. This is my comment: I bought my copy two days ago and am REALLY enjoying it. Toby ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 22:49:25 -0600 From: "Music Street Journal Gary Hill" Subject: NEWS: articles of interest to KC fans Just a note to let everyone know, the new issue of Music Street Journal includes two articles that should be of interest to KC fans. It is a review of the newest disc by California Guitar Trio (featuring Tony Levin). The other is the review of December People-Sounds Like Christmas (featuring John Wetton). Thanks Gary Gary Hill Music Street Journal http://www.musicstreetjournal.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 23:37:10 -0800 From: "Brian Kelley" Subject: Re: reply to previous Anti-RED post > > Seriously, it is alot of the 70s Crimso that we don't get > to hear enough of in concert these days. Granted I do > dig the new stuff like Cyriel, Heaven and Earth, and > Response To Stimuli. But I would prefer to hear MORE > of the 70's stuff. > Now let me just reiterate here, following up on my previous reply to Dan's previous post. I wasn't saying that I totally wish to hear nothing BUT the 70s Crimson. Sure it was the era of KC that totally blew my mind back in only the Spring of '93 in college (yes, I was a late bloomer I know). But as with any band or musical vehicle, change is always eminent, and by the masses, should be welcome as well. In all honesty, I actually dig the newer stuff (circa 1994-2001) that has been surfacing since Fripp brought them back in '94. I think the Level 5 and Heavy ConstruKction material is some of the heaviest and darkest stuff to come out since Red. And THRAK of course would have to be up there with its tracks. I highly give a big salute to the current direction that KC are going in, and I only wish them to continue to strive to find new vast, musical directions and explore unheard soundscapes, and most importantly... To boldly go where no Crimso-heads have gone before!!!! (We're just along for the ride! ;) Here's to Crimso, old AND new!!!!! Maybe Fripp will make this the "Incline to 2004". Peace and prog (always), Bro Krimson PS Btw, regarding that other post about Fripp not continuing on past his 60s, don't count the ol' Fripper out just yet!!!! I yearn to see him later on in life, sitting casually back and snug in the shadows he adores, cranking out the most absolute SICKEST and INSANE riffs from his rocking chair! One thing's for sure though. Only Fripp will be able to tell when KC "ceases to exist" or not! (Such as he did after Red in '74, but that was because he had another trick up his sleeve for '81! ;) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 23:38:59 -0800 From: "Brian Kelley" Subject: Reply to the Anti-RED In E.T. #899, Dan stated: >I guess I should feel lucky that I'm going to see >Crimson for the 10th time next month (Lisner >Auditorium in D.C.). But I am tired of hearing them >play "Red." Are there that many people who are going >to a Crim concert for the first time that the band >feels obligated to still play some of the old stuff? >Thye've played "Red" every time I've seen them. I >WANT FRAKTURED!!!!!! > You're tired of hearing of all songs... RED?!!?!! That makes about as much sense as dipping a banana in ketchup (see the "Red" connection there?) I would personally like them for once every other show to perhaps omit "Dinosaur" from the setlist, and replace it with say, something from VROOOM or THRAK. (Notice the lack of VROOOM or THRAK material these days, too?) Seriously, it is alot of the 70s Crimso that we don't get to hear enough of in concert these days. Granted I do dig the new stuff like Cyriel, Heaven and Earth, and Response To Stimuli. But I would prefer to hear MORE of the 70's stuff. I would say Fripp more or less calls the shots (I'm sure) for the setlists per show. And he should, since KC is pretty much his "baby". He should be able to drive it in any direction he sees fit. In fact, one time in mid-2000 (after the Nashville gigs) when KC were over playing in Amsterdam or Germany - I forget where - the owner requested that Fripp and the band play 21CSM, but Fripp politely refused to. But the owner demanded that they did, or they wouldn't have the show. So that's what happened apparently - NO SCHIZOID, NO SHOW!!! Now come on, wouldn't we all cream in our pants to hear the beloved 21CSM again live?!!? But seriously, how likely is that to happen?!! If it were up to Belew, he would be able to add some more obscure songs into the mix (esp. from the 80s) like Industry, Dig Me, Sartori in Tangier, Neal and Jack and Me, and other deep cuts like those. But Fripp is 'DA MAN and I'm sure he holds strict tabs on what is played and when during a set (with a little help from Belew I'm sure!) For one thing though, I totally PRAISE ANYTHING that is played live ANYTIME at a show that was recorded before 1981. Since Bruford and Levin are gone, they can't exactly do The Talking Drum or B'Boom > Thrak anymore. (I truly miss the latter as well!) So PLEASE KEEP THE RED FLOWIN', Maztuh Fripp!!! :) Songs like Red, One More Red Nightmare, LTIA1-2, and The Great Deceivers are just a few reasons why I got hooked onto KC in the first place! Those are the heavier ones too, of course!! By the way, why on Earth hasn't Fripp ever resurrected the original FRACTURE from SABB??? It's an instrumental and Belew doesn't have to worry about translating his vocal style to that of the legendary John Wetton's, either ;) It is cool though to hear a NEW version of Fracture (aka FraKctured) - SABB for a New Millenium?!!? [ You can read an interesting discussion about "Fracture" in Sid Smith's new book -- Toby ] Or how about Belew doing "Lament"? That'd be interesting... >One poster wrote that Fripp was sitting in the >shadows. Oh no, not that act again!!!! > >Wow....I just realized that I'm not excited to see the >boys! Bummer. > Don't be bummed out about hearing Red for your 420th time or whatever! Enjoy it while you are there in that magical, musical moment. Feel the intense pounding of the 4/4 and 7/8 time signatures driving a drill through your skull. Welcome it with open, bleeding ears!!! ;) Peace and prog, Bro Krimson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 01:25:26 EST From: SKelly1814 at aol dot com Subject: In memory of... and ear candy The last few weeks have dealt me as severe a 1-2 punch as I can ever recall with the untimely deaths of both George Harrison and Michael Karoli. While Harrison had no ties to "prog rock" (a silly label, anyhow), his accomplishments and influence on countless people can not be stated enough. My path to musical (and personal) salvation, like many other people's, began with the Beatles, and for me, the first Beatles tune I ever remember hearing was one of George's finest- "Here Comes the Sun." From that moment, for whatever reason, I was hooked. The 12 string guitar, the Moog, the simplistic beauty of an event that we take for granted. George celebrated life's rich wonders in a mere 3-4 minute song. It has been many years since my world collided into the ever increasing orb of the Beatles (I am 31), and through all my personal changes in life, the songwriting, the messages, the hope, and all that was George Harrison's remarkable existence, help to center and guide me. Sure, it sounds a trifle sappy to some of you, but that it the way it is for me... Michael Karoli was the guitarist/violinist/vocalist for Can, one of- if not THE- most amazing musical exports ever from Germany. Their music knew no boundaries, from psychedelia to avant garde, minimalism to jazz to rock and roll and reggae. Karoli's involvement was critical to the success of Can. His guitar could at once be blistering, sublime, angular. He could jam yet still hold a ballad with complete grace and with lack of pretention. Karoli cited George Harrison as a central influence on his playing. Both Harrison and Karoli leave behind a beautifully rich and varied tapestry of work that should be listened to and appreciated. Ear candy- my current list of favorite albums of any and all genres: KK- Islands...the interplay between Fripp, Boz, and Ian Wallace on "Sailor's Tale" is a joy to listen to. Can- Tago Mago George Harrison- All Things Must Pass Syd Barrett- the Madcap Laughs Miles Davis- In a Silent Way Steely Dan (seeing as they are a popular topic on this board)- Katy Lied Funkadelic- Maggot Brain Faust- The Faust Tapes Charles Ives- Symphony #4 Charles Mingus- Mingus Ah Um Fleetwood Mac- Boston Tea Party box set; Then Play On Brian Eno- Neroli Soft Machine- Spaced Gram Parsons- GP Byrds- Untitled/Unissued So many other lps for me to choose from (collection of over 10,000 in all), but these are today's best. Thanks for the vine. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 18:09:55 +1100 (EST) From: Will Dayble Subject: More youthful tripe. Hello there again... Before I start with the nitty gritty, I have a question I'm hoping can be answered by someone out there. What tuning does Fripp use? it's certainly not normal, and I'm yet to work out by trial and error what it actually is. I'm pretty sure it differs from album/phase to album/phase, as some of the stuff in say... Thrak is quite simple and normal, but FraKctured etc. has positively weird note progression, that would only work with funny tuning. Any know how? [ Fripp uses the tuning (low to high) CGDAEG. -- Toby ] Mark says: > Ive always wondered what it would be like to discover KC late in the game > and THEN discover the rest of the catalogue, especially coming from an > 80s/90s frame. I wouldnt even know how to pose the question as to what > the experience is, as, having heard and seen them from the start, amidst > such a hugely differing environment (physically and mentally), Im not > even sure comparative grounds exist. It is kinda weird. If you could imagine what it would be like to see a house being de-constructed, almost built in reverse you might be able to imagine what it's like. Hearing the latter KC before the former means tracing the evolution backwards, so you see what was influenced by what, not what influenced what... if you get what I mean. (I'm not quite sure I do. :) > No offense, but getting stoned has no context to anything. Well I think it's a marvelous analogy, because everybody I've played KC to has said something along the lines of 'Whoa, what stoner music!' Each to their own I suppose... > ...Even when you change the channel, its still crap, youre just not > viewing it is all. And the phrase you wanted is plying their wares. There's always going to be crap, there always has and there always will be. But tell me, when you see a dog doo on the footpath do you avoid it, or stand around with your friends complaining about it? (And thank you, I'll be more careful with my typos from now on...) > Okay, but I dont see his [Devin Townsend's] success relevance to MTVs being crap. It shows that someone can still do great things, without the help of the popular music industry, despite MTV being around. > Whats a whinger? Whinger - noun. One who whinges. :) It's good to see that the good old trend of mass floccinaucinihilipilification of our youth's verbal skills is still alive and kicking (so to speak). (And thus a fitting one for me: Wanker, noun - One who wanks.) Remember - Your kids are not only the ones that will be running the planet in a few decades, they're also the ones that choose your retirement home. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 22:07:36 +0000 From: "Nigel Baker" Subject: Starting KC from 1981 >>I'm but 17 years old, and got introduced to KC when I was 16 .... >Ive always wondered what it would be like to discover KC late in the game >and THEN discover the rest of the catalogue, especially coming from an >80s/90s frame. I wouldn't even know how to pose the question as to what >the experience is, as, having heard and seen them from the start, amidst >such a hugely differing environment (physically and mentally), Im not even >sure comparative grounds exist. Well, this has prompted me to write my first email to ET. I'm slightly older than 17... OK a LOT older, and I started with the 80s material. It all happened one fateful day in the early 1980's when browsing through the bargin bin at a record shop. There was a plain blue LP with the name of a band I had never heard of. I was curious to know what a "stick" was and already knew of Bill Bruford. I was already aware of YES, having purchased the "Classic YES" LP several years before. This was thrashed to death on a cheap LP player and at a volume sure to annoy the neighbours. It was probably also purchased on a whim due to the Roger Dean cover art. At the time I thought of YES as just another rock band. I was not aware of "progressive rock". In fact NO progressive rock was played in New Zealand that I can recall. To this date, the only KC I have ever heard played on radio was "In the Court of the Crimson King", and that was years ago. Anyway, I got "Beat" for $4.99 (about half the price of a normal LP) and immediately loved "Sartori in Tangier" as until then I had never heard of anything quite like it. I spend years trying to find music of bands like KC. I eventually gave up. Around the same time I found Discipline and 2oaPP which I immediately liked. I found out more about KC from books and discovered they had a past life. Over several years of scouring used record stores I managed to find all the previous studio albums. But I'm still kicking myself for not getting Earthbound and USA when I could. These LPs tended to stay on the shelf and not get played much. I didn't like the 1969-74 stuff as much as the 1980s trio. Strangely, it was not until I heard Frippertronics and the ProjeKcts that I could appreciate the earlier material. Now Red is one of my favourite albums. On reflection, I think it is easier to approach KC from the 1980s albums. They have the "Belew" songs that at least sounded like a conventional popular song, with a steady beat and verse/chorus/verse structure, a more familiar type and understandable by a non-musician like me. And the rest of the songs were a starting point to atonal music, dissonance and just plain weirdness. For me, KC were the start of a musical journey back into the past that would end at the beginning of the 20th century with Stravinsky and Edgard Varese. After 3oaPP and the breakup of KC I assumed it was all over (this was before the influence of the internet) and Fripp had retired. Then, about 1994-95 I was browsing a music magazine when I spotted a review of Thrak. I didn't know of the reunion, and checked out the record store. I immediately got Thrak, Vroom and B'Boom. Since then I found ET (read every single issue) and now have just about everything Fripp has been involved with. There is one thing I have always found constant with KC. Usually when I get a new album, I don't immediately like it. But the more I play it, the more I like it. Some have mentioned a link between Fripp and Miles Davis. For me there is a definite historical link. I can remember when one of our music shows played the video of "Sleepless," it was just once, but I still remember it. At that time (mid 1980s) I was interested in searching for different music. When they played the Sleepless video, they also played the video for "Decoy". Until then, to me jazz was of two types : - Big band swing jazz - smaller bands with lots of meaningless solos where everyone goes "yeah - right on" before the soloist returns to the group effort (BORING) Miles Davis's Decoy was a revelation. At last jazz had a "rock attitude" and could be appreciated. I am also a Miles Davis fan and have just about all his albums since Bitches Brew. Question: I can vaguely remember hearing the opening chords of "Matte Kadusai" used in a BBC production many years ago. I think it was a nature, or possibly a travel TV program. The music was played over a scene on a beach. I cannot find any reference to it in the FAQs. Maybe my memory is fading. This would be 10-15 years ago. Anyone remember ? Some of you have bean moaning on about getting email on ET, what you can and can't say etc etc. I have a gripe with some of you out there (I'm not blaming the moderators for this). I just HATE it when someone writes a block of text 40 lines long without double line breaks. A solid block of text is difficult to read. PLEASE break your text up so paragraphs are no more than 4-5 lines long BTW - are there any other ETers in ChCh, NZ ? Nigel Baker Christchurch, New Zealand ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 10:59:26 +0100 From: "Van Polly uit St. Paul's"

Subject: Favourite bands Here is my Top 14: King Crimson (of course) Talk Talk (TCoS and later)/Mark Hollis solo Tool (only Lateralis) Liquid Tension Jethro Tull Captain Beefheart Split Enz Tom Waits Zen Guerilla Woody Guthrie Paul Robeson Yello Neil Young Creedende Clearwater Revival Paul Logman ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 23:14:12 +1100 From: "cam@arthole" Subject: Re: Crim Fan sob story Is it true King Crimson have never played here in Australia?! I would like to second John's call for an Aussie tour, please?, cam. arthole: http://arthole.alphalink.com.au livejournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/littlecameron ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 08:36:17 EST From: Rswjdrp at aol dot com Subject: Tim's Query Re: Introduction to KC To someone who hadn't heard the band, the piece I'd play to set the stage for the rest of the catalogue is -- Larks IV, from cd 2 of Heavy Construkction. Powerful, elegant, inspiring, a virtuoso performance, impossible to ignore. From there . . . but that's another story. Good question, Tim! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 21:09:49 -0700 From: nicholas naclerio Subject: King Crimson / Mp3 ? An interesting observation! There is a deliberate copyright misuse of the "King Krimson" name on the "MP3.com" Music Web Site. Deceptively listed under the title #636 "King Crimson" on page 16 in the "Electronics Stations" catagory is a selection of music tracks for sale by someone or some band called "THALASSA". Besides the obvious misleading use of the "King Crimson" name the music is tasteless and juvenile (really BAD!!). Verify this for yourselves and protest vigorously. I hope in some way this note will help Mr.Fripp and the band keep their reputations intact. Sincerely, Nicholas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 14:41:52 -0000 From: "Allan Merry" Subject: Re Foreign Tours >Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:44:25 GMT >From: adrian_sutton at talk21 dot com >Subject: Foreign Tours >Interesting idea that KC should tour where according to the number of >subscribers. Where are the most??? - Answer in the UK. How many shows did >we get??? - ONE. So how about a few more maybe then I will get a chance to >see them. >I have been a fan for many years and have still not seen them. I was unable >to get to the show - due to prior commitments. >An unimpressed fan I must echo this. I have been a fan in Scotland for 28 years. Had the chance to see them in 1973,but due to student grant and many other gigs(PF,Genesis and Yes) that year decided to wait till the next tour. Could not believe Fripp would break the band up after Red. Still waiting after all those years! Please come to UK again and play up north - Newcastle would do but I expect KC would have no problem getting a good crowd in Glasgow. Hell,even CGT have been to Glasgow. Allan Confusion will be my epitaph ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:03:24 -0500 (EST) From: Art Cohen Subject: Re: drugs and prog Adam writes: >Take your drugs and stuff them up yer ass!! I am so sick of people >saying that drugs inhance music. It sounds like you're not taking them the right way... --Art ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:19:27 -0500 From: Warren Melnick Subject: KCCC for the not-so-fanatic I like KC. I happen to like them more than many other bands, but there are many bands that I like far more than KC. Why then did I join the KCCC? I like to hear songs evolve. To me an album (CD, LP, whatever) is one producer's vision of what a group of songs sound like. I started ROIO collecting with The Beatles. They are probably the best documented band from a studio perspective ever. It taught me to appreciate songs in a way that I had never known before. Hearing a song from the demo tape though each phase of its "life" up to the final moment gives you a perspective on a song that you can never get otherwise. Certain bands are great live bands. The Beatles did not fall into that category :) When they put a song down on tape (then vinyl) it was the best it was going o get. However, I feel that KC has for the most part been a band that shined live. When one of their songs is cemented into a release it has just reached adolescence and still has some growing to do. Also, I like to listen to the "spin" that various lineups put on older songs. If the KCCC were not available, I would be trading for and downloading the material anyway, probably several times for each given show, as I found progressively better quality releases. That is why I joined the club. Have I loved every release? No. Am I glad I joined? Yes. There are some discs that I think are amazing, even if the sound is not 100%. Moles Club 1981 is a perfect example of this. Next release ends my second round with the club. You can bet I will be joining for a third. Warren ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:27:05 -0500 (EST) From: Art Cohen Subject: Re: Dylan & Lesh & Fripp >AS far as comparisons to Bob Dylan & Phil Lesh, that's a totally >different situation in both cases. Dylan to my knowledge does'nt have to >do much more than "possibly" rehearse w/his touring back-up band, (if he >even does that) & isn't in the situation of having to play virtuostically >complex music every nite, and having to play & interact musically w/3 other >virtuoso's at the same time nite after nite! This sort of attitude is extremely condescending and insulting to Lesh and Dylan. Just because their compositions aren't as musically complex as Crimson's doesn't mean that it's any physically easier to stand up there and play (as Dylan does) for 2 1/2 hours every night without a break. I might also point out that both Dylan and Lesh have had life-threatening illnesses in the last five years (Dylan's heart thing in 1997 and Lesh's liver transplant in 1998) that haven't kept them off the road. If you think Fripp is getting too old to tour just because he has to play really fast on "FraKctured", that doesn't say very much for your high opinion of him. All three musicians are playing at the level of their abilities. All three of them "interact" with the other great musicians in their bands (Warren Haynes and Charlie Sexton are two of the most interesting soloists ploaying "mainstream" rock 'n' roll that I've seen). And in fact, it could be argued that Dylan and Lesh have the more difficult job, since they actually do significant amounts of improvisation at their concerts, changing song arrangments and solos from night-to-night, whereas Crimson, for at least 3/4 of each performance, simply plays the songs the way they were written and rehearsed. >neither Dylan or Phil Lesh have to oversee anywhere NEAR the amount of >material that is on the different cd's that Robert & KC find suitable to >release for just the tour, Are you implying that King Crimson has significantly more material to draw from than Bob Dylan? First of all, in terms of total material available for performance, Dylan has vastly more than Fripp, and Lesh (considering all of the Grateful Dead albums) has significantly more than Fripp as well. When you consider that Fripp is only performing two songs written before 1994, we're talking orders of magnitude of difference. In terms of actual performances, Fripp only has to learn a dozen or so songs and he's ready to go on tour, since his setlist barely changes (if at all) from night to night. And most of those songs are the same ones he played on the previous tour, and the tour before that, and the tour before that. Both Dylan and Lesh maintain significantly larger working repertoires than Fripp, with Dylan changing about half of his set every night and Lesh, of course, changing his entire sets every night. Anyway, the only point of this is that there's certainly no physical reason to expect that this might be "the last King Crimson tour", as you suggested before. This is the most active King Crimson has been in almost 20 years. --Art ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:56:30 -0500 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Club Hopping In ET #902, when J A Sontag was writing in defense of the Collector's Club, I believe (unless I didn't read carefully enough) that he omitted one of the greatest features of the club-- that before any of the releases is mailed (and the cost deducted from your "bank") you are able to know what the date of the show was, the source of the recording, and an estimate of the sound quality. And you can pass, opt out, on the ones that don't look like they'd interest you. As far as I'm concerned, the Collector's Club is a bonanza. Me, I know that I will pretty much never listen to something poorly recorded. Just the way it is; there's way too much music here at my apartment, and too much new coming in, for something that sounds bad to be bothered with. No problem. I just opt out of the KCCC audience recordings. That's my own particular bias, and everyone else is free in the club to exercize their own. I think the beauty of the Club is that, by knowing how many members there are, and having some history on what % of members take each release, they can manufacture just the right number of units, thus making the distribution of this material-- likely of too limited interest to be distributed through traditional channels, but like gold to the hard core fan base-- available to us, and profitable to DGM. It is a win/win situation, and a model other artists could adopt to their benefit. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:55:06 -0500 From: Sylvan Subject: Initiation Tim inquired: > To the uninitiated listener, what single KC track would you play for > them as > an introduction to King Crimson? I generally go for one of the two tracks that reeled me in, which happen to have been Schizoid Man and Larks' Tongues Pt. 1 (although given most people's attention spans, I have to fast-forward through the thumb piano section...) LTiA works pretty well because it just has that 'gee-whiz' factor-- sadly, most people today have never heard anything remotely like it. -- Sylvan http://agodslife.cjb.net "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 13:08:17 EST From: Obonzo at aol dot com Subject: replay to "Red - Again" I saw KC 11/30 in Lakewood, OH and listened for "Red", didn't here it, but I did hear what I think the "poster" was referring to. "Vroom" from Thrak has parts in it that sound identical to "Red". It sounds so much like it, it is as if Fripp borrowed it. There are of course differences as well. The Lakewood show was fantastic!!! The "Level 5" CD is a great recording as well!! Buy it!! I didn't know what to expect from John Paul Jones. He was great!! I'll be buying Zooma and his upcoming release. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 17:23:26 GMT From: VinceCorbet at aol dot com Subject: Hey there! Hi there, this is Paul Vamossy from Michigan,. I just wanted to let you know I saw King Crimson last night at the Royal Oak Music Theater. They kicked ass! I was about 10ft away from Robert Fripp! I mean he wasn't much to watch; he sat on his stool and faced the left side of the stage but it was awesome to finally see in person a man who started one of the greatest progressive rock bands! Adrian Belew was animated and very humorous at times. Trey Gunn was very laid back and seemed to play the stick effortlessly. I couldn't see the drummer. My view was blocked via Robert Fripp's monitor speakers, but Pat never missed a beat and they had the bass drum so low and booming that your whole chest cavity shook. If you would like to put this in your newsletter, that would be fine. I'm a new subsciber and wasn't sure who to write to let everyone know how the show went. I was very impressed and am still excited. Thank you - Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 11:30:15 -0800 From: "Al Bonowitz" Subject: Two responses, two comments * Re: Tim's Introduction to King Crimson I can't choose just one, so I won't. But depending on the mood of the moment and the way into which such a discussion would have been entered, it would be one of these: 1. The Great Deceiver 2. Discipline 3. One Time If further interest was indicated, I'd then play the remaining two from above, then Starless, One More Red Nightmare, Fracture and FraKCtured, the various Larks Tongues, The ConstruKCtion of Light. * Re: Jordan Clifford's response to Drug Use Right on. I think it's important to embrace the music first with a clear mind but once that's done, drugs may (or may not) enhance the experience. I haven't been a serious user since college 20 years ago, but there were some good experiences. My introduction to mushrooms came at the hand of a friend two or three years after I introduced him to King Crimson. He played ITKOTKC and I think I had an out-of-body experience (Thanks Larry!) That was then followed by the first two sides of Black Sabbath's "We Sold Our Souls to Rock and Roll" with equally stunning results. Go figure. * I saw Crimson's LA show. I wasn't disappointed, but I thought the band was better at the House of Blues the year before. I do like the way some of the newer material has grown in the past year. My sister (who knows of the group through my interest but usually prefers more pop and R&B offerings) saw the Columbus, Ohio, show and was blown away. Judging from her comments and other postings, THAT was apparently one cosmic show. * I picked up "Level Five" (No. 382) and the most recent Bears CD at the LA show and I can't get them out of my player. Two totally different experiences, both superb. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 17:22:22 EST From: PZ123 at aol dot com Subject: collector's club maybe someone can supplement the info re: joining the collector's club. I registered for the club on the DGM site but was not charged at the time. I know they "bill you separately". Now I've gotten a credit memo in the mail (snail mail) but no indication as to how it should be paid. Do you mail it in or do they only take payment thru credit card over the net? I'm hesitant to send credit card info in the form of any e-mail. Can some member of the club clear up what is not clear from the club itself? thanks, Phil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 17:27:42 EST From: PZ123 at aol dot com Subject: Progressive Rock To add a point on this topic, I would say that you don't have to be a fan of or even enjoy "progressive rock" to like KC. If prog rock is defined as the sound of ELP, Genesis, Yes, etc., I'm not & have not been a fan of that sound. My preferences in the last 30 years of collecting, listening includes Dylan, the Dead, Neil Young as well as indie bands such as the Silos and Giant Sand. I still love KC though. Phil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 22:54:37 From: "Dan Ceo" Subject: Incredible birthday! I must say, this was the best KC show I've seen--and this is the second one I've been to. All in all, a great way to spend a birthday. This post is going to be pretty long. I assure you, all of this really happened and I have several reliable witnesses. Here's what happened: We got to the Royal Oak Music Theatre about two hours early and parked in a lot right next to the two tour buses. We walked across the street and 'round the corner, where there was a small line of people forming and in front of them was an average sized man with grey hair, wearing a blue winter coat with his back facing me and talking to some of these people. I walked around him and stopped, realizing that I was standing just a few feet away from the genius himself, MR. ROBERT FRIPP!!! He stood there talking to a couple of guys in the front of the line for a minute or two and then wished us well and went back into the theatre, saying, "I hope to see you all later tonight!" He looked like he was somewhat rushed, probably had a soundcheck or something--it was pretty cold outside, too. It didn't matter that I didn't get a chance to talk to him, just to see him standing before me was enough to make my night. After two hours of waiting in line, we all went inside. Me and my friend took a look at the merchandise and of course I had to pick up the obvious Schizoid Man shirt as a back-up to my current one and I picked up the new Level Five CD. Once we got inside, my friend and I briskly walked up to the front of the stage and my family decided to find some comfortable seating at a table on one of the upper levels. After waiting for an hour and getting to know some really nice fellow fans in the front row, John Paul Jones and his orchestra came up on stage. WE WERE STANDING RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE FORMER BASS PLAYER FOR LED ZEPPELIN! I can't remember the names of most of the songs that he played off of Zooma or his new upcoming album Thunderthief (I don't have any of these discs yet, but that shall soon be remedied), but they were excellent! Joneseys solo stuff is just as powerful as anything as any of his stuff with Zeppelin. It was even more surprising to see him switch from 8-string bass, to 16-string bass, to lap steel, to mandolin, to ukelele, to bass mandolin. The guy who was playing Chapman Stick for JPJ was playing the instrument like a guitar! I'm used to hearing/watching someone like Tony Levin play it like a bass and adding a few guitar-esque passages with his right hand. Some of the real standouts were a couple of heavy intrumentals that were carried with hard-hitting bass melodies, a slow blues tune which Jones played on mandolin and lap steel which proved that you can play blues on anything, a Celtic-styled folk tune called "Freedom Song" which JPJ sang and played ukelele and it was a beautiful surprise. He even played a spot-on version of "That's The Way," with himself singing and playing mandolin. Some other surprises were an awesome instrumental version of "When The Levee Breaks" that the band played perfectly and at the end of the show, Jones started playing the first couple of bars from "In My Time Of Dying" and the band immediately broke into "Black Dog." (JPJ played these two songs completely on lap steel, melodies and all) Very delightful show! Jones was seemed very surprised at our reaction--which was incredibly enthusiastic, nevertheless he was very appreciative and bantered with us between songs. After about 20 minutes (actually, I'm not quite sure how long it was in between acts) King Crimson came on and we gave them a huge welcome. Now this set list is as good as I can remember it, there might be a couple songs that are out of order. They started right in, albeit very softly, with a new song, "Dangerous Curves." It sounded like a modern day rave song--and that's not meant to be an insult, either--and built up in volume to be a full-on Crimson rocker. Then, they went right into "The ConstruKction of Light," playing it just as well as I remember from the last time and even adding some new dynamics to it, as well. Adrian Belew even messed up the very first line of word associations in the song, which I myself didn't mind at all, it added to the fun of the show and it was good to be right up there to see Adrian and Robert laughing between each other. Adrian said, "Can't you just feel the testosterone in here tonight?" But he did acknowledge the presence of the ladies there as well. He announced that Crimso had some new material to play and they went in to "EleKctric" which is one that I've never heard before and I loved every second of it. What was really surprising was when the band played "Thela Hun Ginjeet" and "Elephant Talk" which I had read were cut from the set recently. "Level Five" was certainly a treat, although it does sound somewhat like another "Larks' Tongues..." I quite enjoyed the Eastern flavor of "Virtuous Circle." Then came "VROOM" and they even put in "Coda: Marine 475" this time around. There were some times when Pat Mastellotto would hit something which was a little off of the beat and he would laugh and look down at us and make funny faces. "Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part IV" is always a show stopper of a tune and was played very precisely (Robert's fast guitar figure in the middle of the song always astounds me), even though "Coda: I Have a Dream" was cut short. The band stood up and took bows, very much in awe of the crowd's reaction--at least that's the way it looked to me. Pat threw a couple of his sticks into the crowd and my friend grabbed one of them and gave it to me! Three of the band members came back up on stage and we were witness to ProjeKct 3 playing "The Deception of the Thrush" and, let me tell you, Trey Gunn was just as deft as ever on the touch bass, improvising melodies which were just as delicate as anything I'd ever heard. After that, Adrian came back up on stage....but I can't remember what the band broke into. During the final encore, KC played "Red." It truly capped off a great night. I'm so grateful to the band for putting on a magnificent show. I have to say that this show and the show that Radiohead put on in Chicago in August were the best two shows I've been to this year. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #904 ********************************