Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #903 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 903 Sunday, 2 December 2001 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: Selling 12-12 Washington DC tickets GIG BIZ: one ticket available for Boston 12/8 GIG BIZ: NYC 2 for 1 trade # of subscribers Introduction to King Crimson Crim Fan sob story MR. GEORGE HARRISON, M.B.E. ITCOKC Re: Selling Out - 1969 Good Music??!? Shania & Britney better than Crimso sound levels Re: KC and drug use Re: drugs man, drugs Larks Tongue in Aspic pt 1 GIG REVIEW: King Crimson, Columbus, Oh. Promo West Pavilion ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 21:48:19 -0500 From: "David Hackler" Subject: GIG BIZ: Selling 12-12 Washington DC tickets I have two tickets for the show at Lisner Auditorium at George Washington University. They are center section row G. These were bought through the advance purchase SCI Ticketing. If you are interested, please email me. David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:54:27 -0500 From: "David Chabon" Subject: GIG BIZ: one ticket available for Boston 12/8 I have one extra ticket available for the show at the Orpheum in Boston on 12/8. The seat is in the Center Orchestra row N. I would love to get $46.00 (half of the $92.50 I paid to SCI for two tix) for the ticket. Please e-mail me directly at dsc22 at cornell dot edu if you are interested. Thanks!! Dave Chabon dsc22 at cornell dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 10:26:42 -0500 From: "Michael Garnice" Subject: GIG BIZ: NYC 2 for 1 trade Posted this in October, with no takers, so one last try: Regarding the 12/13 Beacon Theatre show in NYC: I have two very good tickets, in the center section of the orchestra (row U, seats 113 & 114). My brother was hoping to attend, but can't make it. (He has three children under the age of 2. I guess that's a Trio that didn't involve "admirable restraint".) I am willing to trade these two very good tickets for one great one. Anyone interested? If so, I'd prefer to make the swap prior to the day of the show. Thanks, Mike G NYC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 10:30:40 GMT From: George Koopman Subject: # of subscribers Since it's impossible to tell what country the subscribers with the ".com"-extention (and such) are in, I'd like to propose the following: KC should do shows per country compared to the number of subscribers. So, if they do like 18 shows in the States, they should do 160 in the Netherlands (good for me, I'll visit each and everyone of them)! And, yes Andrew, 59 shows in South Africa! Or one can do it w/ the # of subscribers in relationship w/ the total # of inhabitants in a country. That would mean 4521 shows in the Netherlands! Okay! (And 347 shows in Micronesia, RF can play behind a palmtree. And Josette, what would Trey wear overthere????) BTW, there was something missing in ET900, but it took me some time to find out. Now I know: it was a newsletter without a single (in)famous Kris-M-post! This leads me to the conclusion that he must be seriously ill, please join me in wishing him all the best and get well soon. ;^) Greetings, George ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 23:21:26 -0500 From: "Tim" Subject: Introduction to King Crimson Greetings all! As a temporary diversion to the much-discussed topics of excessive sound and the definition of Prog Rock, I'd like to toss out a question that will hopefully generate some interesting answers (it's just for fun!). I'm sure that all of my fellow ET subscribers (and wonderful moderator and staff) have their favorite KC tracks and albums (be sure to check out the ET web site for the definitive poll!). But suppose you had an unsuspecting friend who has never heard of King Crimson (I know, I know, like that would ever happen! But bear with me...). You mention that you dig this cool band, KC (normal reaction, King Who?). You explain. They say, "So what songs have they done?". You mention ITCOTCK, knowing you'll get one of two reactions: a) Never heard of it b) Oh yeah, weren't they some psychedelic band in the 60s? You mention ITCOTCK knowing that if they've never heard of KC, odds are that this is the only song they had a prayer of hearing. But they're interested, so you decide to play them something. Now here is the question: To the uninitiated listener, what single KC track would you play for them as an introduction to King Crimson? It's interesting because you could go several ways. Do you go for something representative of their style (which style?)? Do you go for something relatively "main stream" to ease them in? Do you dazzle them with Fripp pyrotechnics? I'd love to hear everyone's answer, this should be a fun topic to kick around for a bit! Thanks gang! Tim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 05:09:31 +0000 From: "John Holmes" Subject: Crim Fan sob story i'm an australian crimson fan, and as far as i can research crimson have never in 30 years done a show in australia. as it happens, i'm coming to america during December, 3 DAYS AFTER THE TOUR FINSHES!!!!!!!!! ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! would it be that much to ask crimson to do a few dates in oz? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 08:22:45 -0500 From: "MALCOLM XERXES" Subject: MR. GEORGE HARRISON, M.B.E. PARLIAMENT OF PACHYDERMS: I was informed some minutes ago by my screenwriting partner that MR. GEORGE HARRISON, M.B.E. has died of cancer. This is particularly distressing news for me, as I had thought that when he successfully survived the assassination attempt in his own home (stabbed several times), that The Universe was offering up some balance for that assassination nonsense with the late MR. JOHN LENNON, M.B.E. The influence this man has exerted upon me throughout my life - explicit & implicit - is inestimable, and now I am being asked to continue my life & career without him, a man whose presence has touched me & moved me in ways that approach what my adoptive parents have done for me, and I was with them since the age of 6 weeks! When first I saw A HARD DAY'S NIGHT on BBC 1 (with my parents), I took to MR. HARRISON immediately, and his peculiar temperament appealed to me very strongly. Now I must reconcile myself to the fact that I shall never get to play drums for him/with him, at least not on this plane of existence, and that I shall never perform with him on film, or in a videoclip...or dig his garden with him. I am glad that he was able to work with his own idols before he left us, and that his suffering is now done. Truly, "ALL THINGS MUST PASS", but my love for the man is something that remains. I am currently watching GIMME SOME TRUTH: The Making of JOHN LENNON'S "IMAGINE" Album, then I am going to watch HELP!, as it never fails to lift my spirits. Of particular note to me is the subtle way that MR. HARRISON managed to include his predilection for Eastern mysticism as a major part of the plot. I shall conclude this post now that the recording of "HOW DO YOU SLEEP?" has finished. MR. HARRISON showed considerable grace under pressure during that recording session, I thought. His life was a lesson for us all, if we are receptive to it. "Happy Family, one hand clap/4 went on, but none came back." POST SCRIPTUM: To those parties with whom I have ejoyed regular correspondence in previous months, please forgive my enforced radio silence. Certain matters have required my attention that prevented me from even reading in my usual leisurely manner the many fascinating posts that you have been submitting. A particularly powerful greeting to those of you who reside in (KING CRIMSON) U.S.A. I know that things are very trying for you, especially in NYC. http://www.malcolmxerxes.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 16:22:03 -0000 From: "Geoff Bailie" Subject: ITCOKC This my first post to ET and Sid Smith's superb book is the reason why I am posting here. I got my hardback copy earlier in the week and was delighted with the book and the fact that so many Crims had autographed it. This surely is one to take good care of. I have started to read the book and think that it strikes a superb balance between "history" and the music. It has sent me back to my KC CDs many times already, which surely is the best measure of such a book. Helter Skelter have done a great job in publishing in and they should be thanked for yet another in a great run of books - I can recommend the Razors Edge book to Dylan fans and I am sure most people reading this already have the ELP bio - if not get this too. If only I had lived closer to London I would have been along to the launch event, and a special thanks to those who got me the autographs of the Crims who were at that event. Geoff Bailie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 17:48:16 From: "David Reilly" Subject: Re: Selling Out - 1969 Good Music??!? Shania & Britney better than Crimso In ET 898, Jordan Clifford, in his post re selling out, stated that "The music that is popular has changed with the times. 1969 was a very different time. One of the rare times when almost all music was good - there werent as many developed styles, but still. therefor, popular music was good." Sorry Jordan, but here in the UK the 20 top selling albums in 1969 were as follows:- 1 Best of the Seekers 2 Sound Of Music Film S'track 3 Ray Coniff his orchestra his singers 4 The Beatles Abbey Road 5 Johnny Cash at San Quentin 6 Oliver Film S'track 7 Jim Reeves According to my Heart 8 Mary Hopkin Goodbye 9 Bob Dylan Nashvile Skyline 10 The Supremes and the Temptations 11 Motown Chartbusters 12 Hair - London Cast recording 13 World of Mantovani Vol 1 14 World Of Val Doonican 15 Moody Blues On The Threshold Of a Dream 16 World Of Mantovani Vol 2 17 The Beatles White Album 18 Elvis Presley Flaming Star 19 Jethro Tull Stand Up 20 This Is Tom Jones Ray Conniff and Mantovani!!!! The singles weren't much better, containing such class acts as Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Robin Gibb, Bobby Gentry, Tommy Roe, Elvis, The Archies (granted, Sugar Sugar is a classic) and the Bee Gees. Even in 1973 at the very height of the Prog Rock era, Peters and Lee, Gilbert O'Sullivan, Perry Como and The Carpenters were in the top 20 albums for the year. The only thing in the top 20 even close to what the majority of readers of this list would term "prog" was Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon - nothing prog in 72's albums either and only Dark Side again and a Mike Oldfield's 1st 2 LPs in 1974. "the INDUSTRY sells to the masses, not the music lovers" looks like it was like that in 1969 too but, at the end of the day, one man's Mantovani is another man's King Crimson. It's all subjective. Also, while I'm on, re the posts on Shania Twain, she co-writes almost all her material with her ex-AC/DC producing husband, Mutt Lange - I don't think the guys in Crimso couldv'e written "That Don't Impress Me Much" or any of the other brilliantly catchy tunes on the Come On Over CD What say you all Shania Twain better than Crimso? Britney better than Crimso? I say yes, in particular circumstances - that's the beauty of diversity in music Feel free to flame me. [ Flames by private mail only, please. -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 20:22:04 +0000 From: Jeremy Robinson Subject: sound levels Interesting stuff in the last ET about sound levels and ear plugs at KC gigs. It just seems so naff, adolescent and unprofessional for rock acts to insist that their music be played at high, distorted, uncomfortable volume. Like a bunch of spotty teenagers racking up their tinny amps to 11. Totally unnecessary. You don't take ear plugs to any other entertainment. Theatre, musicals, opera, cinema, poetry, dance and almost all other live performances don't need that kind of over-compensation for lack of confidence and skill. If you're fucking good, you don't need to batter the audience's eardrums, in any medium. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 20:08:29 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: KC and drug use forgive me if this has been talked about to death already, but Art Cohen said something interesting I was thinking abuot before "Both of them are over 60, and both of them, I'd wager, did more drugs on a good weekend in their youth than Fripp has done in his entire life. " what is the story with KC and drugs? I cant see Fripp doing any drugs, although his music might suggest otherwise. am i wrong? and how about the other band members, especially in the 60s and 70s? i cant see the 80s line up doing drugs either, but who knows. so, anyone know, or care to speculate? It would seem pretty standard, but i find it quite interesting to know the facts. Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 20:21:41 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: drugs man, drugs One ETer wrote: >"Take your drugs and >stuff them up yer ass!! I am so sick of people saying that drugs inhance >music. The fact is "Dark Side of The Moon" is a phenomenal album, and if >you have to be trippin' on LSD and hittin' the bong to realize it, then you >are a moron. You can not appreciate anything while under the influence of >these things." I have a few things to say on the subject.... i am not an avid drug user by any means, i used to smoke pot , but i dont anymore, and ive never done acid or shrooms or anything of that sort... however, depending on the music, im not so sure that saying 'drugs can enhance music' is idiotic, it can be interpreted different ways. you are right, if you cant appreciate the greatness of the music you are listening to without dropping acid then you are a moron and you shouldnt be listening to the music. But after you've taken that step, i would imagine that with the assistance of drugs your mind can take you places that you wouldnt ordinarily go.. places that you COULDNT ordinarily go. Ive often wondered about it but never tried it because i want to experiance a live concert and be able to remember everything about it, but i may try it one time. anyway, i find that simply closing my eyes during certian performances enhances the experiance, and im assuming pot or even a drug like acid will take it on completely different levels. what else are drugs meant to do but that? acid will probably enhance any experiance (not always for the better), i mean, it will take what your brain sees and expand them and create new things and, you know, its just another world. something so powerful as music, well.. i dont think music is made to be listened too while under the influence primarily, but if thats your thing, i can surely see how going on some fantastic journy into space while listening to Dark Side of the Moon might be a lot of fun. I was thinking today what it would be like to lay down and listen to Fracture on acid or something. anyway, i hope im not sounding like a fool.. im sure to some people i am. all im saying is i dont see how you can deny the power of drugs to not exactly enhance the MUSIC but to enhance the listeners EXPERIANCE, but that depends on the listener. i wouldnt get anything more out of Fracture by dropping acid and listneing to it, but it will be a differenent experiance if i do. i hope my thoughts are clear and i dont sound stupid. oh well Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 20:38:44 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Larks Tongue in Aspic pt 1 Im listening to LTiA part one right now, i havent listened to the studio version in a while having been obsessed with the cassette copies of The Great Deciever performances recently (ill be hoping to get the real box set for xmas) , but im wondering, at the end of the song, well towards the end about the last minute, what are those voices you hear, sounds like a sample from an old movie or something of that sort... anyone know what im talking abuot and what that actually is? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 20:47:06 EST From: DBly54 at aol dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW: King Crimson, Columbus, Oh. Promo West Pavilion Can long time fans of King Crimson stand a review by someone who knows next to nothing about their music? I've only heard the album containing 21st Century Schizoid Man, and that was years ago. I was there (2nd row, center wearing a Led Zeppelin T shirt) to see opening act John Paul Jones, although I certainly was curious to see what type of music I would here from KC. After the lights went down and the intro music began, there was a bit of a wait before the band members took the stage creating a sense of anticipation. Throughout the entire performance, Robert Fripp never looked at the audience. He sat down on a stool set up to the left of Adrian Belew and never took his eyes off of his band mates during the entire concert. I don't think he was being rude, or showing any contempt for the audience, he just seemed to concentrate on the music, leaving Mr. Belew to interact with the crowd, which he did. At one point he stated that the next song "was being heard for the first time on Ohio soil". That brought a faint smile from Mr. Fripp. I stared at Mr. Fripp often during the concert and I was as close to him as he would be were he to appear in my living room. He looked like a Republican banker who was just sitting in with the band.. until you watched him produce simply astounding sounds. He is amazing to watch since he defies every convention of the rock musician persona with his unique stage presence. As the music unfolded, I kept looking for the synthesizers or other keyboards that were creating the atmospheric and fascinating sounds I was hearing but only saw guitars. I've never been to a concert by a band that didn't play songs with a definite hook, chorus, lots of lyrics. I've seen ELP, Moody Blues, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin (3 times) Yes, and many other bands over the years (first one in 1969, Steppenwolf) so even though I've never see KC before I do know what professional standards are regarding live performances. All of the members of KC are excellent musicians. Sitting as close as I was I was able to see the expressions on their faces. The drummer concentrating on the quick and (to me) unpredictable starts and stops of the songs; Mr. Fripp smiling momentarily when something tricky worked out well as the band took the audience on a sonic journey impossible to achieve with more mainstream acts. They were able to really set a unique mood and what I heard stayed with me for days after. Don't ask me about the set list or anything like that, I haven't a clue. As far as the sound of the band, I was way too close to have heard the music as would someone sitting 20 rows back. It sounded crisp, clear and was very loud WHICH IS TO BE EXPECTED, EVEN, NECESSARY AT A ROCK CONCERT. As their set wrapped up the band members acknowledged the enthusiastic response from the crowd. Mr. Belew, the bass player and drummer all made eye contact with their fans and thanked them. Mr. Fripp having literally never set eyes on the audience all night, cupped his hands around his face and slowly scanned the crowd for a moment. Other than that, he waited patiently with his hands folded in front of him as his band mates basked in the crowd's appreciation. All in all, a concert unlike any other I have ever seen. I'm glad I hung around after Jonesy was through. It was well worth it. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #903 ********************************