Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #898 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 898 Sunday, 25 November 2001 Today's Topics: NEWS: ETers by country breakdown Re: Univers Zero/ Present Re: KC: Not an opiate for the masses.... The Value of Album art ..Reply to 'loose ends'.. Re: Ear Candy Re: KC tshirts Re: Selling Out Bad Sound Bad Behavior In Denver Merch at the show celine dion Looking for a song KC a matter of choice the epitome of evil flounder: a tasty flat white fish! Who's Kissing Who? even younger generation / more ear candies / crim and devil Frippocrite A new live KC set eye candy GIG REVIEW: Beast! Beast! (Madison, 11-23) ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 12:55:18 GMT From: Toby Howard Subject: NEWS: ETers by country breakdown Mike Dickson, ET MailMeister-extraordinaire, has kindly sent us this breakdown of ET subscribers by domain. I thought ETers would like to see it. Obviously there are many "others" whose email addresses are .com, over 4,000 of them in fact. And I'll take this opportunity to remind ETers that we *NEVER*, that's *NEVER*, disclose ETers' email addresses to 3rd parties. So no worries there. Cheers Toby AM Armenia - 12 subscribers AR Argentina - 35 subscribers AS American Samoa - 5 subscribers AT Austria - 9 subscribers AU Australia - 69 subscribers BE Belgium - 11 subscribers BG Bulgaria - 13 subscribers BO Bolivia - 7 subscribers BR Brazil - 43 subscribers CA Canada - 81 subscribers CC Cocos (Keeling) Isl. - 5 subscribers CH Switzerland - 8 subscribers CL Chile - 24 subscribers CO Colombia - 12 subscribers CR Costa Rica - 24 subscribers CX Christmas Island - 8 subscribers CZ Czech Republic - 11 subscribers DE Germany - 105 subscribers DK Denmark - 17 subscribers EE Estonia - 34 subscribers ES Spain - 60 subscribers FI Finland - 43 subscribers FM Micronesia - 1 subscribers FR France - 56 subscribers GR Greece - 25 subscribers HR Croatia - 22 subscribers HU Hungary - 19 subscribers ID Indonesia - 13 subscribers IE Ireland - 9 subscribers IL Israel - 14 subscribers IN India - 10 subscribers IS Iceland - 8 subscribers IT Italy - 129 subscribers JP Japan - 59 subscribers KR Korea (South) - 1 subscribers LB Lebanon - 10 subscribers LI Liechtenstein - 1 subscribers LT Lithuania - 4 subscribers LV Latvia - 14 subscribers MX Mexico - 31 subscribers NL Netherlands - 160 subscribers NO Norway - 23 subscribers NU Niue - 2 subscribers NZ New Zealand - 69 subscribers PE Peru - 4 subscribers PK Pakistan - 18 subscribers PL Poland - 75 subscribers PT Portugal - 12 subscribers PY Paraguay - 16 subscribers QA Qatar - 9 subscribers RO Romania - 15 subscribers RU Russian Federation - 248 subscribers SE Sweden - 28 subscribers SG Singapore - 15 subscribers SK Slovak Republic - 13 subscribers SU Soviet Union - 2 subscribers TO Tonga - 4 subscribers UA Ukraine - 12 subscribers UK United Kingdom - 415 subscribers US United States - 18 subscribers UY Uruguay - 7 subscribers UZ Uzbekistan - 4 subscribers VE Venezuela - 23 subscribers ZA South Africa - 59 subscribers Others - 4143 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:38:49 EST From: Campiglio4 at aol dot com Subject: Re: Univers Zero/ Present If you like that stuff, check out Art Zoyd; very much in the same vein. Never feel embarrassed, better late that never. Check out Wayside Music, a mail-order company, you'll find many artists that put out music from the "dark side." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:42:00 -0600 From: Craig Subject: Re: KC: Not an opiate for the masses.... Lawrence Moseley put it quite succinctly. A fairly precise definition of the general pop idiom actually....... "Give the people what they want. First tell them what they want...then sell it to them...again." I would add to this, "and again, & again, & again"..... ad nauseum. (There are always exceptions, of course). Krimson have always been the one 'progressive' band (of stature) that never lost, or compromised, it`s integrity. And that says alot about them.............. ~Craig PS: >KC: Not an opiate for the masses.... Certainly not,.......That would be religion, of course 8^D) ...... (as opposed to spirituality, which is hopefully sounding more attractive these days). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:46:29 EST From: Bassdude007 at aol dot com Subject: The Value of Album art Hi all, Hoppy Holi-Daze! (Be verry Green my friends, oops, I mean Groon, or maybe Groon and Green--whatever??) My simple comments on the value of an album cover artwork here. Sometime in the Summer of 1973 while me and my buddy Russ were tripping on a warm night we decided to take a walk around the neighborhood. As 13 year old "hooligans" at that time, we decided to find a car with an unlocked door and "borrow" some cassettes or 8-tracks for listening pleasure. We found an unlocked vehicle with 12 or 13 cassettes in it and helped ourselves. I have no idea what the other cassettes were, as history and age floods my mind, but I remember that there was this really frightening RED face that said "Play Me Now". It was "ITCoTKc". We put that little puppy on, and as we peaked, listened intently, and enjoyed something I had NEVER heard before, I knew my life was changed. From the opening groans to the final mellotrons something profound happened. I still recall the first listening of side one and just going, "What the fuck was that.. it's sooooooooo cool" The only reason I listened and absorbed that music that night was because we drawn to it. FRIGHTENING COVER!!! No Band name, No review, No track listing, No Line-up... Once it was opened, it cannot be ignored! (Plus the Drugz didn't hurt either ;>) anyways, that is my rant on cover art, and how it can attract and make you discover the package inside. After that night's discovery, I learned about Larks' Tongues, and went on from there. I Love Crimson Still, have seen them 4 times, brought my daughter to see them, seen Projeckt 2, LOVE their new musicK to death ("Deception of the Thrush" is the NEW Classic!!) (TCoL runs a close second), and have tix to see them this Saturday night in Chicago (Hi Leif!!!!). To the anonymous person who "lost" their KC tape in '73... I'm sorry that we burnt you back then, yet a huge Thank you. we were bad boyz, but became enlightened thru this discovery. A thank you because I now have a world of music that I have enjoyed for 25 years. You have influenced my bass playing, and made me look at music from a different view. All from a simple album's art can a life be changed. My story...Peace out all. Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:04:40 EST From: Kissman24 at aol dot com Subject: ..Reply to 'loose ends'.. I too am a huge Tull fan, and from what I have heard of "J-Tull Dot Com", it is a great album, so I think that their new stuff is great, too! They're amazing! Ian is truly a genius...and what gets me is, like KC, after 30 years of making music, they're still touring and churning out great tunes. I think that my favorite Tull album is "Thick As A Brick"...a great prog album. JT aren't really a true prog band, when you think about it-does 'Love Story' sound prog to you? To me, they are more rock and roll than progressive rock...I love them either way! Pink Floyd...amazing group of musicians...have made some of the greatest musical pieces of our time...I recently got the new "Echoes" greatest hits CD...it's really a nice package. I recommend it to any Floyd Fan. Concerning album cover art-"Broadsword and The Beast" is a great album cover, man! I love it! I don't know if I have a favorite piece of album cover art...I like KC's "In The Wake Of Poseidon", and Iron Maiden's "Brave New World" is truly fantastic! There are so many greats...Sabbath's "Heaven And Hell", Gentle Giant's "In A Glass House"...Such great art. Love and Bruises- ---Mike "See the blind man...He's shooting at the world..." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:57:55 -0500 From: Leonardo_Gomez Subject: Re: Ear Candy A must for everyone who likes good music. - Deep Purple " The Gemini Suite (Live)" - Van Halen " For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" - Seru Giran " Eiti Leda" (Argentina) - Rhapsody " Dawn of Victory" - DIO " The Last in Line" - Illya Kuryaki & the Valderramas "Chaco" (Argentina) Saludos from Colombia --- ANDRES LEONARDO GOMEZ MARTINEZ No creo en Dios, pero le tengo miedo - Florentino Ariza en El amor en los tiempos del colera de Gabriel Garcia Marquez. --- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:50:10 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: KC tshirts >I dunno about you, but I've always thought that having the face from ITCOTCK >would be great for the front of a shirt, with the lyrics "The fate of all >mankind, I see, is in the hands of fools." from Epitaph on the back. I >think it'd work! :) I'd buy it, no prob! I've considered buying a colour >cartridge for my printer and a few iron-on printable transfers to do it >myself. :) I mean, when in doubt, make it yourself!! >Kris M dont get me wrong, King Crimson has great covers. thats why i like the Discipline shirt, with the quote on the back. and the ITCOTCK shirt with that great quote on the back. Perhaps they took the "if its not broke dont fix it approach" to their tshirts- if the albums covers are great anyway why not just make it a t shirt. ok fine, but my point is that shirts shouldnt just be the album cover in another form. im not knocking the coolness of th ITCOTCK cover, it works on an album cover or a tshirt.. but why not an alternative? there are SO many images created by KC, and so many themes, and cool image inspiring lyrics, and just so much creativity i find it hard to believe they would just but little effort into creating cool tshirt representations of the band. but, ill take what i can get. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:08:09 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: Selling Out >From: "Kris M" >Subject: Re: Selling Out >Exactly. The music industry is no longer about spreading good music and >making it more readily available. It's about selling and promoting those >who will sell, and leaving the true artists in the underground. However, I >find that in the not-so-popular realm is where real music tends to lurk. But when was it ever? You say "MUSIC INDUSTRY" and taht is exactly what it is. MUSIC, or ART, is a completely seperate thing from INDUSTRY and BUSINESS. however, in order to survive art must work with industry. any industry has always and will always be out only to sell product. The music that is popular has changed with the times. 1969 was a very different time. one of the rare times when almost all music was good there werent as many developed styles, but still. therefor, popular music was good. underground scenes werent quite as developed as they are now. While King Crimson definatley didnt achieve the success of NSYNC even in 1969, they are a successfull band on every level imaginable.. come to think of it maybe the most successful because of their brilliance and longevity. anyway, at no time did the music business make spreading good music a top priority. now that the underground has become such a neccesary staple in keeping good music alive, thats where all the good music is. In our times, for whatever reason, N'Sync is what the masses like. the INDUSTRY sells to the masses, not the music lovers. i dont think it has anything to do with the industry selling good music or bad, just what sells the most. obviously. but on a side note, even the standard pop bands taht have given 'pop' a bad name are maturing. i may be alone on this, but for a regular R&B type of love song, the new nsync song is pretty good. they are maturing, and whether it has to do with their own input or their producers doesnt matter because even if they are talented (enough) singers and dancers they are essentially vehicles. nevertheless, i dont want to wretch and nsync and britney anymore. Does this hint at the end of this current Pop Explosion? i certainly think that it is meaningful. Bands with even less talent then nsync likke 98 degrees are blown out of the water, and while more popular then KC stuff like OTown it is getting obvious that there are a few changes goin on.. nothing to shake the industry exactly, but its noticable to me. so , the major pop acts maturing.. the excess ones (well its all excess) arent quite as big.. all signs are pointing to maybe the popularity of a real music genre like we saw with "grunge", the golden days when i could enjoy a real band like PEARL JAM on the top 10 instead of a line up like nsync, britney, and then the worst of them all as far as im concerned LIMP BIZKIT. but this is all besides the point haha. my point is : music industry, not music appreciation. rambled again.. sorry. jordan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:43:35 -0700 From: "Steven Bennett" Subject: Bad Sound Bad Behavior In Denver I wanted to respond to a recent post about the November 19 Denver show that I also attended. Since I'm a veteran of many KC shows going back to the Lark's Tongues era, I do have some perspective on the issues raised. First, the sound quality at the Denver show WAS less than stellar, particularly in comparison to many other KC shows I've attended, including other Denver area and Paramount Theater shows. I found the opening set by JPJ to be disappointing, mostly due to an appalling sound mix that was muddled and at an excessive volume that caused significant distortion. The friend I was with remarked on how bad he thought the sound was shortly after JPJ started playing, and we both expressed concern about how KC would sound. Although the audience responded enthusiastically to JPJ, it was obvious that they connected most strongly with the older reworked Led Zep tunes that seemed better suited to the boot stomping sound mix. However, any suggestion that JPJ blew KC off the stage musically or technically, for that audience or any other, is absurd. When KC finally took the stage, the sound mix was significantly improved, with better balance, instrument separation, and clarity, but the volume was still too high. This mostly affected Adrian Belew's vocals which frequently sounded shrill and distorted. On some songs, particularly when the band really started to cook, distortion due to excessive volume became noticeable. Adrian also experienced guitar problems that sidelined him for awhile and were never completely solved. However, it was not the worst I've ever heard KC live and their playing was as usual, excellent. The new material sounds great and I'm looking forward to the next release far more than I did TCOL. As for the woman dancing incident, R.F. did not actually come to her defence, but was responding to a potentially negative situation that could have impacted the show. What he actually said was that he personally did not have a problem with the woman dancing and draping herself across the stage, but he could understand how other people in the audience who paid for reserved seats might not care for it. He was prepared to continue the show (with the dancing woman), but only if the audience assured him they didn't mind. As far as I could tell, the audience roared approval and the show went on. However, the theater security people had other ideas and decided to take care of the situation another way. Personally, I think if anyone is in a public place and is unable to control their behavior and it starts to bother other people, they deserve whatever happens to them. I've been to many a concert where people are so drunk or stoned they barely know where they are, and I have difficulty enjoying a performance while persons are passing out across the seats or vomiting on the floor around me. This incident was far from that extreme, but I think R.F. rightly saw a potentially volatile situation, and simply wanted to head it off. His idiosyncrasies and issues with audience behavior are both legendary and amusing, and this was no exception. Frankly, when I go to a King Crimson concert, my primary motivation is to see and hear the band live, in as good a setting as possible. I don't go to "enjoy" the crowd or "mosh". If I went to a Metallica, Tool, Creed, etc. concert, my priorities would be different. R.F. himself has said he wants KC fans to enjoy live shows and not treat them as "polite society" sit down recitals, but he does insist on certain behavioral constraints. In my view, KC concerts are generally better because of this attitude. I would also hope that most people going out to a KC show would have different motivations/expectations from those going to, say, a Green Day concert. Finally, does any of this make R.F. a hypocrite? I don't think so, but he absolutely bears responsibility for the quality of the sound. As he should know, better than anybody, the bulk of the KC fans who turn out for a concert really want to hear the band play, not just experience a sonic roar. In addition, there is no good reason for cranking the volume up to the point where it begins to sound like white noise and potentially contributes to hearing loss. While I have no problem with R.F.'s insistence on some audience constraints, I will have a big problem if he lets the live KC sound deteriorate. Although a band never has complete control over the sound in a particular venue, someone like R.F. can certainly exert more influence than the audience can. I also know for a fact that R.F. has canceled KC shows in the past over sound quality and equipment issues. I find it interesting that complaints about the sound are mostly recent and are about the Level Five tour almost exclusively. Maybe he just doesn't know, maybe something in the technology has changed, maybe they're all tired or are losing THEIR hearing? Who knows? My guess is that if this were a common or chronic problem, and R.F. knew about it, he'd correct it. Enough of this rant... SB ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:16:15 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Merch at the show I would really like to know what they are selling on this tour. is the whole catelog up, KC at least. im guessing i couldnt buy The Great Deciever there, but are they selling all their cds, and shirts and whatnot from everything they've put out or what? Any details would be helpful, thanks jordan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 21:48:20 -0000 From: "Richard Adams" Subject: celine dion Kris M mentions Celine Dion as being an example of someone who is very popular despite not writing her own songs - many famous singers never wrote their own songs... Sinatra...Presley... does this make them any less talented? However Celine has been helped on her way by the writing talents of one Peter Sinfield...so we should be careful who we criticise!! Cheers, Richard. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 00:08:09 -0500 From: "Jocelyn Perreault" Subject: Looking for a song Hi there ! A couple of years ago, one of my friend give me a tape and a King Crimson song was record on it. At that time, i didn't know about them. Since, i still don't know the title of that song. Can somebody help me ??? If my memory is good, the song begin with something similar of 2006 by Robert Fripp and then the drum fill in into the song. This song, i think, was live but we didn't hear the crowd. The drum pattern seems to be similar as the B Boom pattern (the beginning). Unfortunately, the song stop when the drum begin so i don't know what is next. The only thing i can say is that the atmospheric beginning (similar as 2006) play over and over for, at least, 2 minutes. This is a very atmospheric and hypnotic beginng. Have an idea ??? Thanks, Jocelyn ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:55:48 +1100 From: peter cave Subject: KC a matter of choice Hi to everyone & KC. I choose to listen to KC. That is my choice & like anyone who is purchasing a product, I try before I buy & try to be informed about the product I am buying. In my purchasing of KC recordings I have set my own standards for what I will pay for (somewhat like Robert Fripp & his choice to release the things that please him) & what pleases me. I have travelled halfway across the world to see my first live KC gig (which cost WAY more than the ticket price) because it was MY choice to decide if it was "value for money". I was lucky; it was a good show with the double trio. If things had been bad at the show (sound quality, etc.) I think I would have tried to bring these issues up with the KC entourage or at least written to discipline global mobile to explain my feelings. Elephant Talk seems a little inapropriate as a forum to offer constructive feedback to KC as some people tend to let off steam rather than discuss the issues that concern them. Personally I like to support KC by purchasing those things I like, & ignoring the rest. I have written to DGM on occasion as I feel that they need direct feedback from the fans & customers to determine how well they are doing at communicating with their audience. -- Peter Cave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 22:02:24 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Messinger Subject: the epitome of evil The notion of King Crimson as a reference to the devil (hates it when his names aren't capitalized) is one area where ready-made pop culture has fully infiltrated, for, as anyone who's seen the devil can tell you, he is not red and has no face per se, only an unbearable emptiness which has no end. There is no sight as terrifying as that of the prince of darkness. God Bless Everyone. Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 02:45:19 EST From: MarkJX at aol dot com Subject: flounder: a tasty flat white fish! In a message dated 11/23/01 12:39:44 PM Mountain Standard Time, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes: > , if it wasn't for those teenie-boppers, the music industry would > flounder. > And this is a BAD thing? Music industry is an oxymoron. It's either music, or it's industry. I'm going back behind the curtain....... Mark J. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 02:58:00 -0800 From: "Mark Tucker" Subject: Who's Kissing Who? One question only this time around: Who's Kris M that ET moderators allow him/her 350 posts per issue and budget the rest of us to one every so many issues? [ There is no budgeting whatsoever of posts. If your post doesn't get into ET it may be for a number of reasons. For example, it may be deemed "offensive" by me (very rare), or it may have an unhelpful "Subject" line like "RE: Elephant Talk #897". or no Subject line at all, or it might be a weird format HTML-encoded mail which the ET software can't handle, or you may have quoted an ENTIRE previous ET in your post, etc, etc. If you post and it doesn't appear and you don't know why, all you need to do is ASK me about it! -- Toby ] -Marc S. Tucker- Anyone care to guess whether this will make it thru? [ Yep, I will. :-) -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:21:44 -0800 From: Eric Gagnon Subject: even younger generation / more ear candies / crim and devil Hello ! Long post so, feel free to go down to the desired topic: 1. Some words to push on the "younger generation" thread that has been going on lately (by the way one of the most interesting thread in ET for a long time, I believe). I discovered Crimson -and many more gems of contemporary music- a couple of years ago in high school. A friend of mine had an incredible collection of prog rock and avant-garde music of every nation and tone. The weird thing is, he was even younger than I was... which, I believe, only indicates that "going" into progressive music -as well as being open to less accessible forms of art- is much more a case of circumstance than of age or innate abilities. 2. On the subjects of ear candies, well I figured I'd had some of my own: John Zorn - With stuff like Painkiller and Cobra, the guy pushes music in very strange direction. Progressive by me... Jorane - Vocalist/instrumentalist from around here in Quebec... Beautiful haunting melodies using violins, cellos and vocals... on stage, her music suddenly packs much more power with electric guitar and stick... Leo Ferre - A poet from France. In a live album I've heard somewhere, orchestral music versus dark forboding lyrics mingles in an almost Hammill-like symphony. Enya - After her first New Age album, the following ProgNewAge few other albums, Enya as given us the (maybe) first "symphonic" NewAge album. A Day Without Rain is incredible. It's like listening to good old concept albums: themes flowing mingling around beautifully weaved intermezzos, following a single but not repressive musical concept from beginning to end... 3. King Crimson and the Devil... Peter Sinfield has made use of many traditionnal imagery in his lyrics of early Crimson album... I've read somewhere that the Crimson King was, according to him, a devilish figure. By analysing ITCOTCK's lyrics, some nice metaphors can be extracted: In litterature, the devil is more representative of the instinctive nature of man (the animal side if you wish). Thus, he is represented as a trickster who "tricks" humans to use their egoistical instinct and make them assume their unshakable supremacy in matters of truth... This, in contrast with the capacity of mankind for compassion, happiness and the like. It seems that modern civilization wished to promote logic, compassion and the like over instinct. Yet, it seems that the "devil" (the instinctive side of mankind) has taken out the dreams of illumination and turned it into a circus of false images. Thus the contemporary world... So, in "Schizoid Man": Neuro-surgeons scream for more (maybe medecine is becoming more of experimenting than helping the injured); Blood rack barbed wire, politicians' funeral pyer; Poet starving, children bleed (there goes compassion and love); Death seed, blind man's greed (egoistical instincts). I Talk to the Wind seems to indicate that the best way to find the aforementionned human qualities of compassion, love and trust is to go "within", in the dreams, in loneliness (I'm on the outside, looking inside). At least, one doesn't waste time (You don't possess me, don't impress me... just use up my time...) Then there's the inevitable fate (the seeds of time) of the human race marching toward... endless circles in Epitaph. Mankind is always pushed forward by dreams but in the end only disillusion itself (if we make it we can all sit back... but I fear tomorrow I'll be crying) Returning to I Talk to the Wind, Moonchild takes us perhaps into the dream, into childhood's grace of naivety and innocence, as we talked to the trees and waited for a sun child. As adults, we often reminesce about the past, thus playing "with the ghosts of dawn..." The following improv is just like a soundtrack to a dream... The album Finale shows us around the Court of the Crimson King, that devilish figure, the dark side of mankind governing our present-day world, inevitably trying to evolve toward a better future but failing miserably for denying itself of its true dual nature. - The rusted chains of prison moons - why not the old and derelict principles of the past misinterpreted, but to which people hold on desperately, fearing to find nothing but emptiness in the future. - The keeper of the city keys put shutters on the dreams - dreams as in vision of hope and progress. Dangerous, because it brings many risks. - The gardener plants an evergreen whilst trampling on a flower - Men trying to evolved but always falling in endless cycles... - The yellow jester pulls the strings - arent't we all puppets, in the end...? So the album is "an observation"? Yes... of the Court of the Crimson King, of the world around us... Depressing ? Not really. There is hope and dreams in it. Lyrically, this album is an elegy of the utopic past, brought up in the present. And progressive rock often go back into the past to push music forward... Anyway, see ya ! Erc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:35:58 -0600 (CST) From: Ben Wolfson Subject: Frippocrite Grant Colburn wrote: >I'm sorry, but for me if one is trying to "blame" Fripp and King Crimson >for the sound at their concert on a personal level, blame implies an >actual conscious intent on the part of those you blame. That's a rather silly and constricting definition of blame. If Robert Fripp picks a venue that he knows to have poor acoustics, he isn't trying to make the band sound bad. But it's certainly true that one can blame him when the sound is muddy because the venue's acoustics suck. He didn't design it, of course, but he did choose to play in it. You would want musicians to rehearse so that they play their best before a concert, right? Why wouldn't you expect them to work hard on finding a venue in which their playing can best be appreciated, as well? Another interesting aspect of your argument is that the first person (Ira) called Fripp a hypocrite (though his spelling was more interesting) because he didn't control those aspects of a concert that he *could*, and then you took him to task for holding Fripp responsible for things he *can't* control. Buh? >>but i >>think you are mistaken to think its OK to pay a good deal of money to >>listen to talented musicians play at physically uncomfortable, distorted, >>damaging volumes. i have been to many concerts, a few of which had >>wretched sound, and in no case would i call that justifiable. >Its a risk YOU need to be willing to take when dealing with live music. If >you're not willing to take the risk stay at home and listen to your CDs. I don't know if you're saying that bad acoustics or too-high volume is a risk one has to take when going to listen to live music, but if it's the latter (and at some people on ET seem to think it is--there was a response to the message to which you're responding in an earlier release), that's bull. The volume is eminently controllable--that was the whole point, initially, of electric instruments--and aside from a knee-jerk "rock must be played REALLY LOUD" (it can also only use 3 chords and be in 4/4 time, natch) tendency, there's no reason to give the audience tinnitus. Quoth Tony Levin: "some day I hope that, like cigarette smoking, music over 110 db will be considered unhealthy and unacceptable". >It doesn't mean that its OK for you to blame Fripp personally either. >Everything you have to say about the sound at that show may be true, but >you are being malicious and simplistic to assume that somehow this >responsibility rests on his shoulders alone or that he (wait for it....) >OWES you personally. Again, the best way to not be potentially let down >from live music is to not go..... Grant Colburn, Glenn Gould. Glenn Gould, Grant Colburn. I'm sure you'll have a lot to talk about. -- BTR Why does this Wolfson person see fit to clutter up Usenet with such absurd nonsense? -- Bob Cunningham in ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:17:46 +0200 From: "Avi Shaked" Subject: A new live KC set Hi everyone! Wouldn't it be nice? : On a recent interview Robert Fripp mentioned that a new King Crimson live CD & video set will soon be released, but it would only be available to people from places in the world in which King Crimson did not play live on their recent tour. According to Fripp, people that attended the concerts will have no interest in the set, since they witnessed the "real thing" (referring to the actual King Crimson live experience), therefore, King Crimson decided to release the set for people that did not have a chance to see King Crimson live, as a second-grade alternative. This will be the first set in a series of "The King Crimson neglected fans releases". Oh, how the real world is upside-down... An often frustrated music lover from Israel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:10:56 +0100 From: George Koopman Subject: eye candy People, people, although I previously said that we should stick close to KC and RF in our posts, I can have some compassion with the ear-candy-posts. But the eye candy (like album-covers of other bands or even the bodyfeatures of Jennifer Lopez) is way beyond. (If you really would wanna discuss this, Toby should consider adding jpeg's to the newsletter.) My ear candy? I love Steely Dan. Different music (more popular if you count the # of albums sold, thus a sell-out???), but the musicians are of the same high musical level as KC (IMHO). I saw them last year in Rotterdam and this must have been the best live concert I have ever seen (but be aware that I haven't seen KC live for almost two decades, so I probably missed a few good concerts). To the younger readers of this newsletter: it's good to know that KC appeals to people of all ages. I believe I was twelve when I first heard KC (ITCOTCK it was) and I was stunned by the beauty of it. This was through a friend (Kees) with older brothers. Being born in '65 I think KC would not appeal to me at the releasedates though, perhaps one should be of a certain age to understand music? My liking of KC raising quite a few eyebrows the following years as my (other) friends were heavily into new wave and were convinced there was nothing else worthwhile in this world. I think Kees and I were seventeen when we got to see KC live (the Discipline line-up). Now we are some 20 years ahead, but KC is still a common bond. Being a backroom musician (like most ET-ers, I guess) I've learned to appreciate their music in a different way, I'd say even more. Thanks to all the posters for the concertreviews, it's good to know what they (KC) are doing. And let us know how you discovered KC, that's fun to read. Greetings, George ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 22:14:45 +0000 From: "Sarah Metivier" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Beast! Beast! (Madison, 11-23) All of the sound problems present in Minneapolis were gone. I have never witnessed anything like that at all. I left the concert feeling physically weak. Sorry this review is completely one-dimensional, but I have nothing else to say.....brilliant. Simply brilliant. On to Chicago! Sarah ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #898 ********************************