Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #897 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 897 Friday, 23 November 2001 Today's Topics: Re: GIG REVIEW: November 16, The Web Theatre, Phoenix, AZ Live Larks 4 Coda Fripp in the shadows Re: In reply to "The Younger Generation"... Re: Crim Selling out Re: Crimson T-shirts Re: Crimson king---Devil Re: Selling Out Re: Heavy metal and prog rock KC & the apocalypse Re: Ear Candy / DCD T-shirt request Re: tshirts Re: I'm into EYE candy! Re: frippocrite Re: General Admission Shows GIG REVIEW: "Prom Night," Saint Paul 11/21 GIG REVIEW: St. Paul, 11-21-01 GIG REVIEW: KC Nov. 21, 2001 St. Paul, MN Setlist GIG REVIEW: Minneapolis - 11.21 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 00:05:38 -0700 From: "Proginoskes" Subject: Re: GIG REVIEW: November 16, The Web Theatre, Phoenix, AZ "Marcus Enochsson" wrote in ET #895: > Christopher "HeKcman" (more commonly known as Heckman) once upon a time > wrote: > >>Overall? I have been to several concerts that have made me want to quit >>mathematics and become a musician instead. This wasn't one of them, though. > >Hey, don't forget we're talking King Crimson here! Where lies the >difference? Sorry. That was a typo. What I meant to type was: "The show was perfect, and I'm willing to kiss Robert Fripp's *** any time he comes to Phoenix." Better? The point I was making was that it was a good show, but not on the order of the ones immortalized in such recordings as _B'boom_, _Thrakkattak_, and _Vrooom Vrooom_. Which raises an interesting question: Are there any recordings of a "typical" KC show (in its entirety)? But after reading "Trey Gunn hysteria" [ET #896], I now understand why there were no backing vocals at the Phoenix show. Thanks, Ryan! Wrapping up ET #896: "Trey Five Winds" [ET #896, the Frippocrite thread] evidently is unaware that "persnicketyness" is a variant of "persnickety", a word popularized by Bullwinkle the Moose (B.S., Whatsamatta U, 1945). (And the preferred spelling is with an i instead of the y, incidentally.) -- Christopher "HeKcman" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:26:46 -0700 From: Kya L Morden Subject: Live Larks 4 Coda I've noticed a few people mention the nonvocal version of the Coda of Larks 4 and wondering if 9/11 had any effect on that. Well, I recall people mentioning that they had started playing the nonvocal version atleast two months before the attack. The reason I bring this up is when Pat Mastelotto was here with the California Guitar Trio back in August I asked him why they stopped playing the coda with lyrics and he told me that it was because Fripp found the lyrics to be too depressing. Which also holds up with what I read on (I think?) Belew's page in which he tells about how Fripp wanted him to add a verse about positive things that have happened. Chibi-Light "He says it's coming out in september no one knows quite WHICH september." -Mike Rutherford on Peter Gabriel's album "UP" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:06:44 -0800 From: "Brian Pearson" Subject: Fripp in the shadows Seems some recent concertgoers are upset that Mr. Fripp played entire sets seated in the shadows behind the rest of the band. Well, he did this when the double trio played Portland, OR in 1995 too--it seems to be his favorite stage position, but if the mix is good I don't think it detracts in any way from hearing the lines he plays. Maybe he is simply a shy and reclusive individual. Maybe the spotlights--like camera flashes--hurt his eyes. Maybe he feels he can concentrate better on his playing without the distractions of seeing--& being seen by--the audience. Maybe this is his symbolic protest against the whole Rock Star/ Guitar Hero mythology. Maybe all of the above. Mr. Belew's exuberance & humor make him the perfect front man for the band; it makes for an interesting contrast to have the founder & guiding intellect directing things from "behind the scenes." Folks, just be glad you got to hear KC live. Plenty of us have been waiting 6 years for them to return to PNW as a headliner. (Spring tour didn't count--all the tickets got gobbled up by Toolies within minutes of going on sale). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:23:44 -0500 From: "Kris M" Subject: Re: In reply to "The Younger Generation"... >Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:44:59 EST >From: Kissman24 at aol dot com >Subject: In reply to "The Younger Generation"... > >Ah, the younger generation of KC fans...We're a rare breed, you know. Now >that, especially here in New York, kids my age are listening to such >disposable garbage as Britney Spears and NSYNC. This won't be any different when you're 21, trust me. I attend one of the many >Intermediate Schools that is dominated by kids who just refuse to sit down >and LISTEN to music, y'know? Again, this won't be any different when you're 21 or older. :) I'm in university and I still find all those same trends. What it comes down to is that, a real love and appreciation for music does not come with age, unless it was there to begin with. >You can't half-way listen to a KC song and say >"That's great." It depends. When I get a copy of a CD that I haven't owned before, I've found myself suddenly smiling broadly and saying "Yeah, I like that, that worked well!" referring to a specific transition or whatnot that they used which I felt was well-done or a good idea to put in there. However, you cannot rate an entire song by only listening to a portion of it; that's like reading the middle chapter of a book and claiming that you understand the entire purpose/story of the book. Music is art, and you have to listen to something the whole way through. Not only that, but you have to listen to it more than once, because each time you listen, there are going to be things that you notice that you hadn't noticed before [if you listen carefully enough]. >Ya' gotta FEEL the music, don't you think? Yes, that's always a factor. I, myself, also listen to music from a technical level [I've been a musician for over 9 years and a vocalist for most of my life.. I'm rather familiar with the technics of music], and that's one of the things that appealed to me most about King Crimson - many of the more complicated technics of music [meters in 7, polyrhythms, etc] are readily found in Crim's music. And yet, it still flows and still speaks to your soul. It's just great music. :) I'm sick of these >no-talent teenagers coming along and stealing the spotlight from people >that >really deserve it...like Fripp and the whole KC Crew. Yes, but this is the cry of a lot of true music-lovers. But, the music industry is no longer about distributing music to make it more readily available to listeners - it's about selling that which will sell. Sad to say, if it wasn't for those teenie-boppers, the music industry would flounder. >Today at the local >mall I saw a kid about my age with an Yngwie Malmsteen shirt on...and I was >proud. Proud because I can see that there is hope for rock and roll to make >it to the Next Generation... Music will always survive in some form or another. For me, it's not important that rock continue as a genre of music, so long as the existing classic examples of rock are not forgotten. Music is always evolving over time, and I'm curious to see which directions it will take in the future. I've recently taken an interest in electronic music as well, but not electronic music such as Aphex Twin. A good example of what I'm talking about is a song called "Dripsody" in which the whole song [done by a Canadian at the University of Toronto.. w00t!] is just manipulations of one sound: a drop of water. Kris M ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:26:44 -0500 From: "Kris M" Subject: Re: Crim Selling out >Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 01:33:35 -0500 >From: "Jordan Clifford" >Subject: Re: Crim Selling out >I agree, does anyone agree with me that Elephant Talk songs very Talking >Heads- Remain In Light material? The first time i heard Elephant Talk i >thought "this could easily be on Remain In Light.. Belew even sounds like >Byrne in this song".. i mean actually its not at all the sound of the >takling heads, certainly not the instruments, but i definately see a >similar >sound there, even the lyrics. I can see your point on this. Though the music is definitely Crim, the lyrics *could* readily be mistaken for Heads lyrics, such as those found in "Once in a Lifetime." Kris M ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:30:59 -0500 From: "Kris M" Subject: Re: Crimson T-shirts >Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 01:44:40 -0500 >From: "Jordan Clifford" >Subject: Crimson T-shirts > >I would have liked to think KC, >who have come up iwth some very creative themes and art and music etc, >could >have come up with something more interesting then slapping the CD cover on >a >TShirt and selling it. I dunno about you, but I've always thought that having the face from ITCOTCK would be great for the front of a shirt, with the lyrics "The fate of all mankind, I see, is in the hands of fools." from Epitaph on the back. I think it'd work! :) I'd buy it, no prob! I've considered buying a colour cartridge for my printer and a few iron-on printable transfers to do it myself. :) I mean, when in doubt, make it yourself!! Kris M ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:40:47 -0500 From: "Kris M" Subject: Re: Crimson king---Devil >Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:21:38 EST >From: TOOL3rdi at aol dot com >Subject: Crimson king---Devil >I was wondering if anyone knew about the stance of Robert Fripp and the >early >incarnations of King Crimson on satanism and the like. ??? That certainly has never been something that I ever would've thought. >I am in the middle of building my Crimson catalog up and am not going in >any >particular order, ( I own In the court of the crimson king, poseidon, red, >discipline, thrak, construction..) and I am finding things to look as >though >Mr. Fripp has a great attraction to things of this nature....and that there >is this common thread in his attraction. Okay.. yes *this* is something I've noticed. Being very biased towards the same content, it was just yet another reason that I like Crim, but the lyrics came as a surprise to me, as I always notice music first [with melodic line of the vocals] but the actual "words" later. >If anyone has any insight into this, I would like to know... I have never thought of this as being "Satanic" though I've often wondered if any of the Crim members have a Nature-based belief system. Certainly, if they are not actually of a Pagan belief system, then they have strong Pagan influences, such as the Celtic knot on the cover of "Discipline," the Goddess/Moon and God/Sun and related images on the cover of "In the Wake of Poseidon," mention of Odysseus and Circe in "Formentera Lady" on the album "Islands," and even down to the blatantly Pagan song "Moonchild." However, this doesn't make them Satanic. It just means that at least one band member has a Nature-based belief system. If not, then the strong influence is there. And since Crim is British, it would not come as any surprise to me, one way or another, as the UK is still pretty close to it's historic roots in the Celtic/medieval/Pagan ways [Scotland being the most infamous]. Kris M ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:00:05 -0500 From: "Kris M" Subject: Re: Selling Out >Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:27:16 -0500 >From: "Brown, Ken" >Subject: Selling Out >First off if anybody in Crim looked like Shania Twain they would be more >famous then they are. Not that looks or talent have a lot to do with making >it, but having the two plus a lot of luck does. I agree that in the "pop" music of today, looks seem to have a lot of leeway, even if talent does not [e.g., Celine Dion.. she does not write any of the songs she sings, but is famous. Why?? Nice voice, nice looks. Pfft!]. But my point is not that her looks/talent brought her to fame. My point is that she is dubbed a country artist, but any casual listener of her songs will see readily that she is not a country singer, even if there's a twang to it. She's a pop singer, and her songs are geared as such. Every single popular "country" song of hers has also had a pop remix which has done just as well, if not better. I would also argue that her pop remixes sounds more appropriate than the country imitations. But, she is marketing in two distinct areas and making lots for it. Her songs, every one of them, were written to sell, not for the sake of musical talent. This is also why her overall sound never changes - she's a charlatan, not a true musician. But, charlatans are the ones that sell and make big $$$ for the music industry, so they don't care. *shrugs* >But seriously has Shania sold out if this is the music she really likes to >do (as it goes with most of today's pop bands)? If she didn't like doing it, she wouldn't be in music. I'm not implying that she's out to sabatage music as we know it. That's just being silly. My point is that her music is out for sales; her music will never go down in the history books as a great example of music. Her music contributes nothing to the art of music. I once saw a "Dictionary of Bad Taste." Certainly, in a future time, her music and the music of those like her will end up in the next version of that book, beside the entry on "muzak." In large part I agreed with >Kris assessment of things, but to me what makes an artist 'sell-out' seems >to be very subjective in nature. It's entirely subjective, because it depends on your perspective of music, what aspects of music you hold dear, and how you see money influencing the course of the music of a particular group. I can say that Shania Twain is a sell-out, and others will criticize me and say that she's not for such-and-such a reason. There's no measurable scale for how much of a "sell-out" any artist or group is, so until there is such a scale, one's "sell-outness" will always be subjective. If Shania or any other artist likes what >they are doing how can they be selling out. Again, all musicians and artists who are recording like what they are doing. If they didn't, they wouldn't be here. And if they are famous and rich >for it, more power to them. Even if they're not really contributing to music in a meaningful way, save to give an example of uncreative music? I think that's the wrong reason to gain fame and fortune. Music has never been about money and popularity; it's art, dammit! And I certainly think bands have moved in >directions I would consider 'selling out', but I could also find fans of >said artists telling me that that the 'sell-out' stuff is the good stuff. I believe you. I have met several such people myself. >Again not really picking on Kris but to all 'selling out' and what is >'good' music people out there. The Music Biz is about selling product. So >what is good is what sells, plain and simple. N'Sync sells 2 million copies >in their first week they are very good. Crim sells 20,000 they aren't. That >is the real world in the music biz. Exactly. The music industry is no longer about spreading good music and making it more readily available. It's about selling and promoting those who will sell, and leaving the true artists in the underground. However, I find that in the not-so-popular realm is where real music tends to lurk. Certainly this is where King Crimson stands, and Crim has been around, on and off, since 1969. They truly get the longevity award. :) Sure, they surface every now and then to gain some more listeners, and tour around, playing at small venues for existing fans. However, they have not made themselves as readily known as other groups. They keep to the music. They're also publishing on Fripp's private label, so they don't have the stresses of mainstreak music industry [note that most groups do this? The Beatles, Metallica, etc? There's good reason...]. Kris M reporting out.. 10-4 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:54:26 -0700 From: "Prog Frog" Subject: Re: Heavy metal and prog rock Just a few interesting tidbits on the apparently curious relationship between heavy metal and progressive rock: -Deep Purple, one of metal's seminal and most important bands (before a discussion about whether or not DP is metal, listen to In Rock, Fireball, Machine Head, Burn, etc. in their entirety) was a progressive rock outfit before adopting metal. - Queen in its early days was progressive, but also metal! - Rush's first album was most definitely pure early metal, and the band got more prorgressive as time went by. -Rick Wakeman played on Black Sabbath's Sabbath Bloody Sabbath - What I really wanted to include, however, is that a lot of bands from the NWOBHM (New Wave of British Heavy Metal) had been listening to progressive rock in their teens. A prime example is Iron Maiden's Steve Harris, who listened to Wishbone Ash all the time and, if I remember correctly, Genesis as well...... - And, of course, don't forget prog metal! - Finally, Fripp once said that Anthrax (a band that was definitely not progressive) was the latest cool thing in music (around 93 or 94, I think) "It's Heaven and Hell!!!!" Marcelo Silveyra Progfreaks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:44:58 -0600 From: Mike Champagne Subject: KC & the apocalypse John Moshier writes in ET#895 about KC in Phoenix: >At times I envisioned them as the house band for the gates of hell, or as >the sound track for the apocalypse. You're not alone, John. This made me chuckle, and I remembered reading in the booklet that came with "A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson" (and later in the FxF box set) a similar sentiment wherein Bruce Malamut, writing in 'Crawdaddy' in 1974, states "While Henry Cow play blissfully in eternal ignorance of the rapidly approaching apocalypse, King Crimson are busy planning its orchestration." I feel strongly that this Crimson has come closer, musically, to the 72-74 outfit in terms of bleakness, than any other incarnation since. Is this good? I don't know, but I have to say that I love the results so far! Mike Michel J Champagne PELLERIN MILNOR CORPORATION Systems Programmer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:43:50 +0700 From: fire_opal Subject: Re: Ear Candy / DCD In Elephant Talk #895 John Spokus wrote: > Funny,I never catagorized Dead Can Dance as a "non progressive artist".They > are progressive,but in a different realm than Crimson. I would call them > world music meets neo-classical. Maybe. They are even mentioned in GEPR :) But I personally would call their music "ethno-goth". BTW, in my list I should call "progressive" such artists as Vermicelli Orchestra, Llanfair P.G. and Sergey Kalougin. I think they deserve it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 00:01:00 -0600 From: "ALARCON CLAUDIA" Subject: T-shirt request Hi all, Since KC has not yet deemed it reasonable to make a tour stop in Austin, Texas since the release of The ConstruKction Of Light, may I humbly ask somebody in one of the lucky cities left on the third leg of the tour to pick me up a Discipline T-shirt (I should have bought it in Mexico in 96, but I didn't have the money...) ? please email me personally so we can iron out the details. Thanks, and enjoy the shows...maybe one day KC will come back to this fair city by the river... I'll be waiting... Claudia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 01:12:37 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: tshirts >>From: John Sowerby >>You mean you don't like the Nuovo Metal shirt? I bought that in preference >>to the Discipline T at the West Palm Beach gig earlier this year... I havent seen the new shirts, but if its just the cover of the new album, which happens to be very cool from the graphics ive seen with th guy with the gasmask or whatever, i will still be disapointed. so i cant say whether or not i love like the Nuova Metal shirt, ill find out Dec.9th in New Haven.. a date which seems to be arriving waaaay too slooowwly! but im not anticipating any creativity in the new shirts, i guess ill have to see. by the way, about the new haven gig- anyone anticipate this being a lesser quality show compared to the new york show? i dont know why it would be exactly but sometimes bands play better in places like new york rather then places like new haven. im thinking abot getting tickets to NYC as well but im not sure, im pretty broke. Speaking of that too, anyone got anything they need to get rid of? the better the seats the more interested ill be in going to the second show. Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 01:28:26 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: I'm into EYE candy! >>Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:58:14 EST >>From: Josette484 at aol dot com >>Subject: I'm into EYE candy! >> >>Give me Trey in tight pants anyday.....it's NOT all about the music! well i guess its good to see a female fan of king crimson. i dont know how many there are on this list, but i dont think there are a great deal of them out there.. certainly the ration of male to female is very large. however since i dont really have a basis on that assumption, are there a lot of female fans out there? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 01:25:34 -0600 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: Re: frippocrite Ira wrote: "I sent a post stating essentially fripp is a hippocrate for being so controlling of the audience (taking away cameras) and yet failing to control the conditions he can better, and has an ethical responsiblity to control, the sound the band produces. mr. colburn replies to my post criticizing me for holding fripp responsible and saying i made it seem like the band was trying to sound bad. mr. colburn, i never said anything of the kind," I'm sorry, but for me if one is trying to "blame" Fripp and King Crimson for the sound at their concert on a personal level, blame implies an actual conscious intent on the part of those you blame. If they weren't "trying" to sound bad, then how can you personally blame them? Music is a hazardous thing and you as an audience member need to realize that there are no guarantees. Example: my wife went to see Bowie and NIN a few years ago about 150 miles from where we live. Neither her or her friends were big NIN fans. Bowie came out did 3 or 4 songs and then stopped his half of the show cuz he was too ill with the flu. Did they get a refund? No. Did they blame Bowie and think he did it on purpose? No, but they were still bummed. That's the risk you take with live performance. "but i think you are mistaken to think its OK to pay a good deal of money to listen to talented musicians play at physically uncomfortable, distorted, damaging volumes. i have been to many concerts, a few of which had wretched sound, and in no case would i call that justifiable." Its a risk YOU need to be willing to take when dealing with live music. If you're not willing to take the risk stay at home and listen to your CDs. "it makes no sense to me to worship musicians to the point that you cant make rational judgments." Nor to me. What though this has to do with my commentary on your post though is questionable. " i love king crimson, fripp's my favorite guitarist---that doesnt mean he isnt a hippocrite," Calling someone a hypocrite due to bad sound at one particular show at one particular venue on one particular night is a sad way to treat your "favorite guitarist." "and most basically it doesnt mean its ok to play in shitty venues with loud, distorted sound. " It doesn't mean that its OK for you to blame Fripp personally either. Everything you have to say about the sound at that show may be true, but you are being malicious and simplistic to assume that somehow this responsibility rests on his shoulders alone or that he (wait for it....) OWES you personally. Again, the best way to not be potentially let down from live music is to not go..... "if you thinks its OK, i doubt youre intelligent enough to fully appreciate the music." Hmmm, and with a cheap shot like that I'm somehow supposed to find a new respect for your opinion? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 01:54:30 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: General Admission Shows >>I just hope that next time the men of King Crimson come >>to town, I can see them in a venue where showing your appreciation by >>standing, cheering, and swaying to the music is the accepted behavior. I TOTALLY agree. I try to avoid venues that have seating for many reasons - 1. most of the bands i listen to or go see live play music i get excited about and if i cant dance to it i can still jump around, or stand up and cheer. 2. getting a good and excited vibe from a crowd is a great experiance. i just simply cant enjoy a show to the fullest level if im sitting in seperated seats, apart from the other fans, not able to expess my excitement in physical movements. its just a drag. 3. its usually cheaper and you dont have to worry about any of this front row bullshit. I got my tickets for my KC new haven show THE SECOND i was the tickets went on sale (i mean, i had known previously and i tried to catch the sale as soon as posisble) and despite trying my best i still got seats in row H. the last show i did this for, Medeski Martin and Wood, i acted even quicker and even ordered in advance through being apart of the fan club or whatever and yet, i payed more to do it that way and ended up in U section.. how anyone got better seats then me is just beyond me. frankly all that shit, and then the disapointment when you didnt get the best seats event hough you couldnt have tried any more is sometimes not worth it. With general admission its first come first serve and even then, despite how annoying and rude it is, you can still push your way to the front if you have to. granted im 19, and im not someone who is going to enjoy sitting down to enjoy anything. i love sitting, down get me wrong, but when it comes to live musical experiances, standing and being a part of a collective group of energetic fans is the way to go. i wasnt that upset about the KC show at a theater though, becasue i know i can just sit back and enjoy the show even if im not jumping around with a crowd. but i migth go to whereever they are playing in NYC, i think Roseland Ballroom or one of those, if i think its worth it after seeing the dec. 9th show. and i dont think its sold out so i wont have to worry about the row of seat im getting at that show because tis general admission. thats the beauty of it all.. tickets probably went on sale about a month ago, and yet i coudl still get them and get a better place in the audience then some chump who ordered tickets the second they went on sale. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:16:41 EST From: Boobird at aol dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW: "Prom Night," Saint Paul 11/21 Dear Folks -- You all pretty much know the set list and other details from other posts. I'll just give you an impression of this evening. The Venue -- very different, prompting Adrian's remark of "Welcome to prom night in Saint Paul!" RiverCentre Grand Ballroom is one wide open room (no chandelier), the bands playing on an elevated stage in front of a seated audience (about 1500 or so chairs). But there was enough space between chairs and stage that, once the music started, about 150 and more people were standing up front (more later). Overall very nice, the music didn't come across too distorted (at least from row 3). The View -- As one person remarked at the start of Crimson's set, some of the standing folks were "being a better door than window," but then again weren't we all there for the music? In the third row seat where I sat I had a decent view of all except Pat, who I finally saw live when the band took a bow. The Atmosphere -- Both audience and bands seemed to enjoy themselves, which was a major highlight of the evening. As one with the rhythmic sense of a dead metronome, I'm amazed at what folks can dance to. Specifically for me, the women dancing to "When the Levee Breaks" and "EleKctric." They were the other highlight of the evening ... For Josette -- Trey was again wearing a dark long-sleeved V-neck, with slightly lighter pants having a thin white stripe (might be the outfit for the tour). Overall -- A grand night in the Grand Ballroom. Both the John Paul Jones Orchestra and King Crimson seemed inspired tonight. Or maybe that was their effect on me. Either way, a night to remember... -- Mark Newstrom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 04:24:35 +0000 From: "Sarah Metivier" Subject: GIG REVIEW: St. Paul, 11-21-01 Trey hit the nail right on the head in his most recent diary entry: the PERFORMANCE was beautiful, but the PERFORMANCE SPACE left a whole lot to be desired. The Grand Ballroom of the RiverCentre was a very poor place for both sound quality and audience/performer connection. I certainly did feel like I was back at a junior high school dance. However, in spite of the limitations of the venue, Music did, at some points, take place. The standouts were _Level 5_, which was simply jaw-dropping in its intensity, and _Deception of the Thrush_. I like the new version of _DotT_. The brutal ugliness of the first part serves to enhance the sweetness of Trey's solo section nearer the end. And it was incredibly, mind-blowingly, heart-breakingly gorgeous. Trey seemed to be actually having FUN onstage last night. I hope this is a sign that he has overcome the "blues" he expressed in his recent diary entry and is finding enjoyment once again in Music. I personally found that the behaviors and attitudes of some of the audience members had as much of a negative effect on my experience of the performance as did the venue. (Did anyone else have this problem, or was I just in the weirdo section?) Topping the list of Things I Never Thought I Would Overhear At A King Crimson Concert: "Yeah, last time I dropped acid was at the Kid Rock concert...I don't remember anything except the strippers." This from some little punk standing right in front of me. Said punk then added, "Hey, we shoulda brought my MP3 player so we could record this." *sigh* I am already referring to 19- or 20- year olds as "little punks"....and I just turned 25 in September. I have truly entered Old Fogeyhood. Tomorrow is Madison! Can't wait! Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:30:06 -0600 From: "Trent Blomquist" Subject: GIG REVIEW: KC Nov. 21, 2001 St. Paul, MN Setlist Hello, Just saw KC last night had a very nice time. The crowd was very small(1000 maybe) so we took advantage and got right in front on the edge of the stage between Fripp and Adrian. I'm not much good at reviews but I did manage to get the setlist from a stage hand after the show and here is the setlist(I am pretty sure they played it as was listed): Curves Light Pan Elekctric Thela Dinosaur Frame Level 5 Circle Larks (setlist didn't say but I think it was pt. 3) Thrush Oyster Red That's all folks. Peace, Trent. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:25:22 -0600 From: "Darcianne Siefkes" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Minneapolis - 11.21 Having just seen the Level Five show in Minneapolis last night, a few recollections/impressions: First, I was delighted with the John Paul Jones Orchestra. Not having any idea what to expect and therefore no preconceptions, I was totally and pleasantly surprised. I was a good fit for a Crim audience, much like the CGT was. It felt more like we had been treated to two concerts, not just a single concert with a "warm-up band". The sound was good last night, a comfortable volume and you could hear everything. Maybe they're getting the bugs worked out of the sound. Crimson really smoked. Any lingering questions about the ability of this "double-duo" to carry the torch were quickly snuffed out. The last time I saw Crimson (Thrak tour, double-trio) the sound was thick and lush, but it was harder to distinguish the individual parts. My hat's off to Pat and Trey for stepping up to the plate and holding their own. Crimson is a new beast now. The new material, Level Five and Dangerous Curves are amazing new pieces. This four-piece band seems to be really coming into it's own identity and a new Crimson is emerging once again. That's one of the things I like about Crimson is the ability to constantly challenge themselves and create new musical forms. On this, the seventh night of the tour they seemed very at ease and confident with themselves. Be sure and get the Limited EDition our CD. A great Lastly, I feel like I should apologize to the band (even though it wasn't my fault...) for the boorish behavior and rude shouting among some of my fellow audience members at the very start of the show. At a dramatic moment when the soundscapes were emerging and the band was setting the tone and the mood, the obnoxious shouts from the crowd put the band off at first, it seemed. I felt embarassed for us as a crowd and I hope the Crimson King won't hold that against us in terms of returning to the Twin Cities for future concerts. You do have some fans here!! All in all, a great way to kick off the holiday weekend. Happy Thanksgiving all you ET-ers. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #897 ********************************