Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #89 Discipline, Number 89 Friday, 30 April 1993 Today's Topics: Robert Fripp Guitar Quintet in San Francisco Re: EP Fripp String Quintet Miles The Great Wetton Debate Continues... Re: Belew and Levin w/Gabriel on SNL Sky Saw Guitar Review of 1971 boots Re Sky Saw David Rhodes <---> Belew Boots Starless meandering Let The Power Fall. Discipline music [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 9:58:40 PDT From: "John M. Relph" Subject: Robert Fripp Guitar Quintet in San Francisco Yes, the Robert Fripp Guitar Quintet is playing two performances in San Francisco, at the Great American Music Hall, on Saturday 22 May 1993. Good venue. I saw the League of Crafty Guitarists there in, I think it was 1989. They more recently played at Slims, but I think GAMH is a better venue for them. In any case, I'll be attending the early show (8:00) p.m., so if you are planning on attending, we should meet! Send me e-mail. -- John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 13:48:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Chad H Hutchinson Subject: Re: EP Does anybody know when the EP is coming out and what's gonna be on it? On the Up-coming release list at our local record store (Rainbow Records, Newark, DE), they had "King Crimson (EP)" on it last week. ============================================================================ | | | \ _____ \ \ \ ____ \ The Ghost | | \ \ \ \ \ ghost at brahms dot udel dot edu | | \ \ \ \_____ \ ____ Chemical Engineering | | \ \ \ \ \ \ University of Delaware | | \__ \_______ \______ \__ \__ | | "We're just musicians here to fit the thickness of your skin" | ============================================================================ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 11:04:00 PDT From: rogoff at teradyne dot com (David Rogoff x4627) Subject: Fripp String Quintet Anybody else going to the Fripp show in L.A.? The show is Friday, May 28th (beginning of Memorial Day Weekend) at the Strand in Redondo Beach. Their number is 310-316-1700 and the tickets are $21.50. I'm looking for anyone else who will be heading over there. Oh- the Strand is conveniently located just a couple of minutes from Round Sounds. David David Rogoff, Teradyne Semiconductor Test Division rogoff at teradyne dot com 818-991-2900 x4627 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 14:29:36 EDT From: gwl at genrad dot com (Glenn W. Lea) Subject: Miles On Wed, 28 Apr 93 17:47:53 BST, Joe Germuska said >> And, in another issue raised by the Fripp interview of McLaughlin posted to >> Discipline a few months ago, McLaughlin mentions how much he likes the >> "newly released live 1959 Miles Davis album with Coltrane, Adderley and >> Evans". Well, I have asked a number of jazz aficianados, including one >> with a database, and no one knows of any such album! The interview was Toby (I think) said >> My guess is that McLaughlin was referring to the recently >> remastered "Kind of Blue", which, while it was not recorded in a >> club or concert hall, was recorded live in the studio with no >> overdubs, and all first or second takes of songs the band had never >> seen before the studio dates! No, that's impossible since the interview in question was first published in 1982 and the remaster just came out this year!!! As Joe said, he put the question to the 100+ strong Miles Davis mailing list and no one came up with any live album with all of the mentioned people playing together in 1959. 1958, yes. 1959, no. And I doubt that KOB would be referred to as a "live" album, regardless of the circumstances of the session. It was a studio album. Further, Kind of Blue is very likely the most famous jazz album ever made, so it's doubtful that in 1982, Fripp would be asking McLaughlin if he had heard it. Not to beat it to death, but we take such details very seriously! :) :) Glenn Lea [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 11:18:53 From: Chris Stelzer Subject: The Great Wetton Debate Continues... I meant to get this into Disc. #88, but... In regards to the recent debate/argument over the quality of Wetton's work w/ Asia vs. his work w/ KC: Mr. King seems to be forgetting the fact that works such as "Starless," "LTiA1," and the instrumental part of "Moonchild" (which is, I'm sure, the section he has a problem with) are (as far as I can tell) improvisations while the Asia songs are carefully _crafted_ pop-music pieces. Comparing the ease of composing these two types of music as a way of determining their quality is almost meaningless because they are 'written' in almost completely different ways. Just because Mozart could write fantastic pieces of music almost in his sleep, does not denegrate the quality of his work. This is not to say that I am comparing Asia to Mozart. Whether or not you can recognize the existence of 'good corporate rock' has, in the past few issues, been shown to be strictly a matter of opinion. My opinion? There is something to be said for a man who can make the transition from the art of KC music to the craft of corporate rock. Not many artists are capable of this, and rather than being a mark against JW, it shows how versatile this man is. Some more random thoughts: (1) What does 'overly clever' mean, Mr. King? (2) Jon, I hope you are not criticizing the meaninglessness of Asia's lyrics... The Palmer-James' lyrics are just as meaningless as well as pretentious (but a hell of a lot more entertaining, IMHO - esp. those on _S&BB_... In closing: anybody who questions JW's talent _must_ listen to the _Great Deceiver_ set before passing further judgement... Chris "Got no truck for the la-di-da/Keep my bread in an old fruit jar..."?????????? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: cs64sbt at sdcc8 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Re: Belew and Levin w/Gabriel on SNL Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 17:01:00 PDT Yes that was Tony Levin with Peter Gabriel on SNL. The guitarist? Well, he kinda moves around stage like Belew, always has a lovable goofy grin on his face like Belew ;-) but it's not Belew. It's David Rhodes. I kinda have a theory about Rhode's real identity. Remember when Fripp toured with Gabriel under the pseudonym "Dusty Rhodes"? I thought that David Rhodes might be Adrian Belew using a pseudonym as well, but when I saw his photo in a recent _Guitar Player_ issue, it sure didn't look like Belew. Paolo -- ******************************************************************* If you know you have an unpleasant disposition and dislike people, this is no obstacle to work. J.G. Bennett ******************************************************************* [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Sky Saw Guitar Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 16:59:28 PDT From: oedipus at cruzio dot santa-cruz dot ca dot us (Edsarr) Regarding Sky Saw Guitar... Creative electronic/synthetic musicians tend to manipulate the tone of their guitar, keyboard, stick, washboard, whatever, to create wild new sounds. If there are many such sounds in a particular song, poetic and evocative names may be assigned to the sound to indicate who did what in the mix. Check the credits on any Eno album, or later Bowie, Talking Heads, Fripp, (yes Eno's hands were involved in all of them) and you see credits for instruments like _Sky Saw Guitar_, _Surf Guitar_, _Trumpet Guitar_, etc. These days, I can't tell whether the original sound started from a synth module or strings and pick-ups, but lots of signal processing in the hands of a master musician can produce amazing tones. (I still remember the feeling in my body when I heard Fripp's sound on Bowie's _Fashion_, and not yet knowing who this Fripp guy playing guitar was, wondered what kind of wild synth controller they had to make that amazing noise, since I was sure that guitars couldn't sound like that!) Incidentally, I probably won't be able to review the Fripp Quintet May 23, as I'm quitting job, disconnecting computer/modem, and going to meditate in the mountains for 3 months. Tibetan Buddhist lineage, that I was drawn to after reading Gurdjieff and Ouspensky books, after discovering Bennett, after listening to Fripp's _Exposure_ album. So, the process of dissolution is picking up in pace, and I may not have the time to post much more. Oh yeah, I strongly recommend the _Fractal Zoom_ remix CD off Eno's _Nerve Net_ as Fripp plays guitar, its 70+ min. long, and the different mixes are really quite different. Amazing what modern studios can do. May all be auspicious! -Eduar -- Rev.Dr.Oedipus P. Wienushausen # The only constant is change; oedipus at cruzio dot santa-cruz dot ca dot us # enjoy the illusory dance. # Love is the nature of universe. Poised on the brink: Utopia/Oblivion # >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 20:18:04 -0600 From: Jeff Holland Subject: Review of 1971 boots HEY- I enjoy your news Here's a quick review of two recent 1971 boot CDs that might be of interest if they haven' they haven't already been mentioned... LOST ISLAND (Live at Brighton Dome Oct. 16, 1971) MPH CD07 Italy Circus 8:28 Pictures of a City 5:53 Ladies of the Road 8:21 The Letters 4:59 Formentera Lady 7:08 Sailor's Tale 5:31 21st Century (Again...) 9:31 Islands 7:03 Groon 11:40 This CD is the most interesting Crimson piece mainly because so little exists from this period (1971). Sound quality is marginal audience "reprocessed" to be acceptable. The intensity and adventureness of the live performance more than makes up for this! It is a real treat to hear Fripp perform "Islands" in an arpeggiated guitar form-- different, but still as beautiful as the LP track. Also a standout is Formentera Lady/Sailors Tale. Boz Burrell agressively anchors with bass as only hinted at in the LP version. This was Crims Crimson closest to jazz... CIRKUS (Live at the Acedemy of Music, NYC Nov.24 1973) Scorpion 103 Cirkus Pictures of a City Formentera Lady A Sailors Tale 21st Century Schizoid Man The Devils Triangle (60 minutes) This is billed as 1973 Late Show... Looks and sounds like something from 1971. Any knowledgeable types have a correct date? Band is definately Fripp/Collins Wallace/Burrell. Again sound quality is less than "stereo". This CD is most interesting for it's incredibly aggressive and "hard" Cirkus. Formentera Lady/Sailors Tale are executed more slowly with some interesting experimentation. Recommended for fans of this period only. I'd be interested in making a tape copy in trade for the recent Kan Power Japanese Live CD someone mentioned a few weeks back. Have lots of other interesting Frippish stuff. Again, really enjoy reading this area. I didn't think there were others worse than me! Can't wait to see what Fripp surprises us with on the new box set from the early days... holland at spot dot colorado dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 12:48:31 +1000 From: keens at phillip dot edu dot au Subject: Re Sky Saw In Discipline 88 Paolo asked what a sky saw guitar was. An easy one - not even related to the mellotron. Blame the madeup, bestockinged early incarnation Eno for doing it (yes, I still haven't forgiven you Paolo :-)). From his first solo album (here come the warm jets) Eno took to giving the guitar sounds 'names' - rather than just lead or rhythm. So you get sky saw, whimshurst etc. Another Green World probably had the most extensive range, but he's still doing it on Nerve Net. I couldn't recommend getting into Eno (musically ;-)) too highly. jeremy [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 28 Apr 1993 23:22:30 -0500 From: MOONLIT KNIGHT Subject: David Rhodes <---> Belew I believe that David Rhodes with his new short haircut was mistaken for Adrian Belew on Peter Gabriel's Sat. Night live appearance. Jeff [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 29 Apr 93 03:34:32 EDT From: Michael Sheehan <70373 dot 3423 at CompuServe dot COM> Subject: Boots >>> Artists tend to make most of their money off of concert paraphenalia, i.e. t-shirts, concert books, etc. This is why they cost so damn much. <<< This is simply not true. Ask Paul Anka how much he makes from the Tonight Show theme, or Gabriel how much money Sledgehammer made--So alone, according to Peter, was enough, royalty-wise, to build Real World studios. T-shirts and marketing gimcracks are moneymakers, it's true, but publishing rights is where the money lies... And since when was the Great Deciever package released without Fripp's permission? Did I miss something? Amil Prasad wrote-- >>> Someone left a cryptic and nearly unintelligible message about Belew joining Levin onstage at a recent Peter Gabriel concert. This person also mentioned a radio or TV broadcast from last week? <<< Anil, old spot, if you find out about this please let me know post-haste! What a treat that would have been... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: eliot at dcs dot qmw dot ac dot uk Subject: Starless meandering Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 11:42:24 BST In Discipline #86, c_king writes > Don't get me wrong now. I loved "Starless" at one time in my life, but can > anyone explain to me the value of that meandering 13/4 tick-tock, > Fripp's-bored, break after the vocal section? Well, I'm probably pointing out the obvious but the tick/tock is in 4/4. Consequently there's (at least to me) a nice phasing effect, the 13 bass pattern repeating 4 times before the tick/tock comes back into sync. I love the bass theme, especially the huge crunchy flat 5 & minor 6 intervals. So, no I can't explain the value of it to you, but to me its priceless. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ASAEL at vms dot huji dot ac dot il@cs.man.ac.uk Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 15:49 +0300 Subject: Let The Power Fall. Hello There, (1) At The Back Of One's Mind... Lately i purchased a cassette of Fripp's _Let The Power Fall_ (EG Editions). To be frank - i didn't know quite what to make of it at 1st earsight - but i was left with the notion that there's more to it than meets the ear. Meanwhile, i came across a discussion on LTPF, held in this forum some months ago... (2) The Illumination !! ...Following an advice given by one of the participants in this discussion (was it John Fitzgerald, or am i freely-associating someone to JFK :?) i set off to listen to it late at night, me and a pair of earphones... And there it was revealed! The best way to approximate the experience is to say that i acquired the best interpretation to date of Fripp's saying "Music is the Cup that holds the Wine of Silence". So, to each and every one of you who search for new horizons in the music they listen to (and thus - in life, imho) i highly recommend to give it a try! (3) The Perspective I learned that the LP of LTPF contains liner/inner notes which shed light on the music and the idea behind it. So if someone would be willing to type them in - i thank him/her in advance. (4) The Future...Now (yes, a PH pun) Yesterday, following LTPF, i purchased a single-cassette of Fripp&Eno's _No Pussyfooting_ & _Evening Star_ combined, EG Editions again, (btw, its price was equivalent to only $4 [dig this, Ophir ;-]) can't wait to lay my ears on these ones.. Regards, "3's a crowd" RamZ. --Jackson 5. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 20:41 CST From: "Of the Sun..." Subject: Discipline music Hello all, I was just writting to tell you guitarists out there that I have transcribed _Discipline_ for two guitars. If you would like a copy please e-mail me at mtkeen at stthomas dot edu and I will e-mail you a copy. It is very fun to play though rather difficult. Thanks, -Matt [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.