Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #880 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 880 Sunday, 21 October 2001 Today's Topics: NEWS: From the ET moderator. Yes now off-topic. NEWS: Exclusive Premium Crimson Tickets! Looking for a new ET FAQmaster saxon covers "Crimson King" Sid Meier's CrimBook Yes and KC 11/30/2001 tickets for Lakewood, OH. recent YES abuse...an alternative odd coincidence Jethro Tull Bootleg TV Complicity Property & Ownership in Art Club17 Release anyone? used CD controversy/mexico city.wma/MS XP time keeps on slipping slipping slipping... Sid's teasers Fripp on genesis Magnification Re: More about YES and Krimson by Jorge Luis Jimenez preorder tickets Tickets thru SCI Ticketing (String Cheese Incident) ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:20:41 EDT From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Subject: NEWS: From the ET moderator. Yes now off-topic. Hi everyone. No more argument about the merits (or otherwise) of Yes's current total mass retain please. Take that to Notes From The Edge where it fits better. I get up I get down and I got sore knees now. Best wishes Toby ET Moderator ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:20:41 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: Exclusive Premium Crimson Tickets! King Crimson are touring this fall in North America - The Level 5 Tour - with Special Guest, John Paul Jones. The band have set aside a very limited number of premium tickets for their fans for most shows. All you need to do is go to the King Crimson Nuovo Metal Web site at www.king-crimson.com and follow the instructions. Below we've listed the tour dates and general ticket sale dates as we know them today. This information may change. You can find the latest info through the "tour dates" link at www.king-crimson.com. Premium tickets, where possible, will become available 48 hours before the general on sale date listed. Please contact the venue for details. We know these will sell out very fast - so get clicking! King Crimson - The LEVEL FIVE Tour w/special guest John Paul Jones November 2001 9 Nashville, TN - 328 Performance Hall (On Sale Oct 17th) 14 San Francisco, CA - The Warfield (On Sale Oct 27th) 15 Los Angeles, CA - Universal Ampitheatre (On Sale Oct 21st) 16 Phoenix, AZ - Web Theatre (On Sale Oct 20th) 17 Las Vegas, NV - House Of Blues (On Sale Oct 13th) 19 Denver, CO - Paramount Theatre (On Sale Oct 15th) 21 Minneapolis, MN (To Be Confirmed) 23 Madison, WI - Barrymore Theatre 24 Chicago, IL - Chicago Theatre (On Sale Oct 20th) 25 St. Louis, MO - The Pageant (On Sale Oct 20th) 26 Indianapolis, IN - Murat Theatre (On Sale Oct 20th) 27 Kansas City, MO - The Madrid Theater (On Sale Oct 27th) 29 Columbus, OH - Promowest Pavillion 30 Cleveland, OH - Lakewood Civic (On Sale Oct 19th) December 2001 1 Detroit, MI - Royal Oak Theatre (On Sale Oct 27th) 2 Greensburgh, PA - Palace Theatre (On Sale Oct 19th) * 4 Buffalo, NY - University of Buffalo, Centre for The Arts (On Sale Oct 26th) 5 Toronto, Canada - Massey Hall (On Sale Oct 19th) * 6 Montreal, Canada - Place Des Arts (On Sale Oct 19th) 8 Boston, MA - Orpheum Theatre (On Sale Oct 20th) 9 New Haven, CT - Palace Theatre (On Sale Nov 3rd) 11 Philadelphia, PA - Tower Theatre 12 Washington DC - Lisner Auditorium 13 New York, NY - Beacon Theatre (On Sale Oct 26th) * No premium tickets for Greensburgh and Toronto shows. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:52:53 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Looking for a new ET FAQmaster ETers, After a number of years as FAQmaster, Steve Sthole has decided to pursue other endeavors, instead of slogging over the now, thanks to Steve's efforts, massive ET FAQ. We wish him well, and thank him for all the time and effort he has put into the FAQ. So now ET is looking for a new FAQmaster. If you are organized, detail oriented, an big KC and RF fan, interested in KC trivia, read ET religiously, own a computer, have basic HTML skills, have time on your hands, and would like to contribute to the ET team by becoming our new FAQmaster, please send me an email, and make your case for the position. There is no pay involved. This is completely voluntary, but if you take on the task we will expect you to be responsible enough to keep the FAQ up to date and responsive to the ever growing number of frequently asked questions. This can be a time consuming task so keep that in mind. You could spend 5-10 hours a week on it. Maybe less. It depends on how much you put into the effort. Take a look at what we have now to get acquainted with what might become your baby to raise and nuture. I'll accept volunteers until Nov 1st. Then I'll make a decision then. Thanks! Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:10:47 EDT From: Jr1532 at aol dot com Subject: saxon covers "Crimson King" just heard the new saxon album, "killing ground'. although i have listened to them for years and thought they were always a consistently good metal band, the new album includes a cover version of "in the court of the crimson king". it sounds ridiculous! a spinal tap moment! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:17:46 -0700 From: "Mark Tucker" Subject: Sid Meier's CrimBook In response to Sid's book excerpts: Marvelous! This is the sort of thing journalism should be, rather than, say, Eric Tamm's often nauseatingly adulatory hero-worship. The contrast of views here dethrones the godhood of our favorite musicians and guitarist, bringing them back down to human (granted: well above average) terms and something direly needed in this day of Orwellian Consumerism. Few books do any form of music justice nowadays and I've been anxiously awaiting a tome on Crimson, fervently sacrificing to the Elder Gawdz for a competent, hard-headed, investigative writer to take up the task. If the excerpts provided are indicative, save for a few confusing quote attributions, Sid's exactly what I wanted. This should be a hell of a book. I can't wait to get my clutching paws on a copy. Bravo, Sid! Again, if what I've read is a trustworthy indication, you're desperately needed in the prog-writing / prog-crit environment. It's drowning in twee mediocrity...when it can rise up to even THAT level. -Marc S. Tucker- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:16:49 -0300 (ART) From: Ronald Miklos Subject: Yes and KC Hi again Jorge Luis Jimenez wrote >Hi guys, I have been reading all this stuff about YES, >I am totally agree with Ryan, I mean this old men from >YES defenitivelly are living in that wonderfull >past,... I am writing again to partially disagree with all that's ben said about Yes. It's a little bit too much to expect that the great bands just keep on being so brilliant as they were back in the 70's. I love KC but I also think that the 70's material is much more creative than what they've done after RED. I like it anyway and try to see and listen to whatever has been done with its proper focus. Take out the Rabin era in Yes and just analyse the new material including the Keys to Ascension studio tunes. They are very good. "Open your Eyes" is horrible and "The Ladder" has 2 good songs. But the last "Magnification" CD is good. The fact the Yes plays old material is just that they want to play what they did better. KC doesn't do it and I would love to hear 69-74 material being refreshed. But again, I accept Fripp's wills in looking ahead, not back, and do not write critics about it, but only try to understand what's being done and appreciatte it anyway. Ronald Vogel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:34:22 EDT From: Obonzo at aol dot com Subject: More about YES and Krimson Hey ET!! I know it's not your job, but if you can help I would greatly appreciate it. I can't seem to find where and how to purchase tickets for the 11/30/2001 show at Lakewood Civic, Clevelend oh(lakewood oh). The venue does'nt have any info yet and the tickets are supposed to go on sale tomorrow??? somewhere?? I've check SCI, ticketmaster and SFX, no info online?? Thanks!!/David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:52:26 -0400 From: Brian_M_Reynolds/TCO/Enterprise at nisource dot com Subject: 11/30/2001 tickets for Lakewood, OH. Hi, I've seen plethora of negativity about YES on here recently. While I consider myself a YES fan, I personally think YES lost their pizzazz around Tormato. The new stuff, while technical in some aspects, is dry adult fantasy music. I haven't heard Magnification yet, but Ladder is not the "cookin'" YES of the 70's when they were young and tearing it up. I've been a longtime fan of Steve Howe's acoustic work. He recently released an album called NATURAL TIMBRE. YES fans who liked "Clap", "Mood for a Day", and Howe's "Surface Tension" may want to give that a listen. The last three tracks are old YES pieces. The whole thing is acoustic. So if you like that kinda stuff, pick up NATURAL TIMBRE. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:55:28 -0400 From: Steve Rewa Subject: recent YES abuse...an alternative Forgive me if this ends up in the wrong place. I haven't posted here before. I thought some of you might get a kick out of this story. I'm studying for a master's degree in botany focusing on Arctic tundra and I do field research in Barrow, AK over the summers. My lab there is funded by the National Science Foundation and is open for use by any NSF funded scientist. On one particular occasion, I walked in and found a complete stranger sitting at my computer. I asked if I could help him with something and he responded by asking if I had "In the Court of the Crimson King" on my winamp playlist. I'd left it open with about 9 hours of KC on it. I really expected just about anything else from the guy. Hope it was worth a chuckle, -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:07:00 -0400 From: Steve Rewa Subject: odd coincidence I got introduced to KC through a newsletter much like this one but dedicated to Jethro Tull called "The St.Cleve Chronicle" (After Thick as a Brick). Unfortunately, it no longer operates. Someone had asked what other bands they might like if they were JT fans and KC was mentioned in a couple places. I really enjoy both bands, but they strike me as being really dissimilar. Are a lot of KC fans also JT fans? If so, do you like them for similar or different reasons? Anon, -Steve oh, if anyone knows of a good JT listserv, let me know. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:42:09 -0500 From: "Michael Sheehan" Subject: Jethro Tull Jeremy Lakatos writes: "While it's good to see that Bootleg TV is fucked . . ." In WHAT sense is it good? Bootleg TV was a noble effort, no matter how flawed (and in time, whatever flaws they had might have been corrected). It was an effort to create a new distribution model for music which is otherwise either stolen and held hostage by illegal bootleg producers for ridiculous sums of money (not a penny of which ever gets to the music's creator) or cost-prohibitive to put out in mass distribution due to an archaic distrubution system. And, we still enjoy the fruits of their labors in the form of little video goodies on CD releases like KC's and Bruford's. A lot of good people poured their hearts and souls into Bootleg TV and were left looking for jobs as a result of its folding. As someone whose own IT company here in Chicago went out of business a few months ago, I can tell you it is no fun and not "good" in any sense to put a lot of effort and enthusiasm and hard work into something that's a noble idea and have the volatility of the market sweep it away. There's nothing good about looking for a job in the current climate of fear and loathing. These are real people with real hopes and real dreams and real feelings and many of them, I'm sure, read this digest. Maybe you didn't think of them as people. There's nothing good about what they had to go through when their company folded. To tell you the truth there's nothing good about any site (I'm referring to Fuckedcompany.com) that makes people's honest hard work and suffering into a mean-spirited joke. But I've grown sadly used to the timbre of discussion here on ET, which all too often reduces to "X (Crimson, DGM, Fripp etc.) didn't provide Y (a CD, a concert, an autograph) as *I* insist on for *my* needs, therefore X is (bad, stupid, arrogant, etc. etc.)." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:09:10 -0600 From: "David F. Snyder" Subject: Bootleg TV Mike Reed makes several interesting points that I agree with, but draws some conclusions that I disagree with. Music teeters on the not-so-fine line between simplicity and complexity. It seems to me that the beauty of music does not drive to simplicity always [uh, take away Ms. Spears' driving license then], but rather exposes simplicities via complexities of varying degrees. And all of this is relative to what one assumes to be "simple", the building blocks of one's creation. One person's building block is perhaps another's Universe, so the artist can't hope that their creation will please all comers. To me, the Crim of recent times I find actually to be exploring conceptually simple musical ideas and testing the ramifications of those within a variety of frames, such as interplay of iterations. As Mike says, " ... but just because something can be done doesn't necessarily mean that it should be done ...", yet I would add that in the recent musings of KC, the unnecessary was trimmed as far as possible. As far as I can tell, that is. How about a Fripp and Howe duet? Seems beyond my conception, which makes it interesting ... Humbly submitted, David Snyder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:15:57 -0700 From: "Mark Tucker" Subject: Complicity Regarding the question of how illegal / contemptible it is to sell King Crimson (or Pierce Turner) CDs, memorabilia, DGM recordings, etc., it might enlighten a few people to know a generalized overview of the legal aspects of this, as its been a bone of contention between collectors and artists for a long time. Firstly, lets get the issue of bootlegging out of the way: As has been noted in a number of books, either referentially or by entire tomes (such as Clinton Heylines highly interesting Bootleg: The Secret History of the Other Recording Industry), both artists and fans are equally guilty in what only artists prefer to take the moral high ground on: the selling of work (musical creations) by people unauthorized to do so. The artists are correct: no one not an owner of the musical creation and no one not authorized by the owner of that creation (including people he has sold the rights to it to, who then become the new owners of it...but, importantly, not the new creators of it) may sell that work. However, artists are more than a little cunning when it comes to their moral outrage: they, too, are responsible for bootlegs in the first place. People may trust that artists most often zealously guard their studio and concert recordings - they know full well their value (even though they may have been less responsible about it in the 60s / 70s - another danger of profligate drug usage not commmonly touted). That being the case, how do the bootleggers so often get these really prime recordings, such as all that great illegal Beatles material on the market ? It doesnt take a whole lot of thought to put two and two together: artists are also covertly selling these recordings to the bootleggers. Hell, its not difficult to find them: Goldmine, even though it piously claims to abjure bootlegging, runs full double-page spreads from people operating bootlegging businesses in foreign countries with far less restrictive copyright laws (hello, Luxembourg, and hey, ya got advertising dollars? We can swallow our integrity!), and far less vigilant policing units, than the US and UK. The artist has a definite interest in such operations: the label will not release more than just so much product in any given year...and then, only at its own behest, not the artists. The artist, though, may have a LOT of stuff to go out and wants, rightly, to profit by it. How might he do so? Hmmmm...hey, look! People who bootleg! Thus, the artist slips a few copies into the bootlegging circuit, for which hes paid (under the table, off the books, on the cuff, you get the picture...youll NEVER nail anyone participating in this with bills of sales; the whole point is to sidestep legalities and documentation); the bootlegger gets hideously high prices, so hes EXTREMELY well paid; and the collector gets skinned paying for bootlegs, but he does it anyway. Thus, we have a thriving illegal business in which all who cry about it are secretly participating in it, but, PR being what it is, one must yowl like an evangelical so that no one looks their way and wonders if they mightnt be in on the take, which they usually are. That puts the most of the bootlegging issue to rest. The remainder concerns art and aesthetics. In many ways, bootleggers, though they really could give a damn about anything but money, do the art consumers a great service: they provide it with works it would never otherwise be able to hear. What they are doing, like it or not, is providing the public, especially when it comes to superior work in cases like King Crimson, with the artistic equivalent of lost sketches of Degas, the work-up drawings of Monet, Dalis discarded canvases, and so on. Many people, myself one of them, WANT to hear what didnt measure up to the corporate ideal. They WANT to hear the takes with the mistakes in them. Just look at the acceptance of all the bonus cut material in reissues and box sets and youll see just how avidly such things are pursued. Most of those cuts are what the corporation or the artist once deemed unsuitable for public release (though there are several other cases: such as lost material, etc.). Take an evangelists high and mighty righteousness if you must, but bootleggers are the publics (untrustworthy and scurrilous) friend. For a very good illustration of how fickle the artist can be, we can look to Fripp himself: he once held the lofty sentiment that public performance is for the moment and that live music shouldnt be recorded, now he disgorges the stuff to beat the band, outpacing any other group or individual Ive yet encountered...by a LONG shot...charging higher-than-CD-store prices (which, in the recent past, his club charged less for). Is that hypocritical? Perhaps, but perhaps he also woke up. Does it matter? Yes and no. Though he may pointedly avoid this ticklish about-face philosophically, we the public, benefit immensely by his negation of his previous moral standards. Frankly, from a purely Philistinic consumer / aesthete standpoint, I could care less what his odd moral posturings may be, Ill happily give my money in exchange for the art he purveys. And why not? Better my money goes to him, in exchange for his oft-impeccable creativity (crafted over many long hard years, with MUCH thought and much practice time) than most of the other groups I consume. So, as we may see, there is no hard and fast right or wrong in the bootlegging issue. The purely legal issue, that of selling ones property is MUCH easier and the answer is: hell yes you can do it and damn the effete moralists and moon-calves who low in the fields about it! Once you buy an item, its yours. That is: the ITEM itself. In the case of art, you get nothing other than the reproduced product. That is, you do not, in purchasing a CD, also purchase the right to further reproduce it; that is a whole separate area of business. But you DO get to purchase and OWN that one piece of PROPERTY. It is yours, free and clear, once youve bought it, to do with as you please. Play it, use it to cut pizza, wipe your dogs rear end with it, whatever you want...including selling it. No one may interfere with this right except to try to make you feel guilty that the artist doesnt make any money when his product is resold many times over. Well, the law never contemplated that such should ever occur and even were it to do so, it would be an impossible task. But the artist knew, or should have known, full well, that that is the state of the market place as soon as he enters it. Has he been living on Mars? No. So, all this bleating about the unfairness of it all is just the artists own greed coming out, his version of corporate rapacity. But HE gets the publics sympathy because of the often false ideals we hold about artists (get to know some of them personally - youll soon revise your utopian fantasies). Turner may wish he could profit endlessly off one CD thoughout all space and time, perhaps becoming rich from as little work as possible for as much money as possible (and dont we all wish for that?), but its a really foolish conception. The after-market (that is, the selling of used consumables) is vast and endless: to try to effect a policing unit to dispatch royalties or fees for every time a product is re-sold would be gargantuan, clumsy, highly ineffective, and basicaly ruin any concept of property. Everyone is eager to defend the right to OWN something...until it comes to THEIR creations, and then they want God-like controls. It never worked, it doesnt work, and it never will work. Lastly, having known MANY struggling artists in my life, Ive yet to know even one who didnt sell his property, MANY times, when he needed money. CDs, books, art pieces, etc. Not one little thought was paid to giving any least percentage of the monies made to the creators. Yet, when THEY attain a decent level of fame and issue product, suddenly they become Instant Philosophers and wax theatric about the unfairness of such things and how the poor artist is screwed by an unjust world (cue the violins). Anyone who wants to entertain the issue would do well to look at the WHOLE picture, not just that portion which benefits the artists conceits and avarice. Everyone participates, everyones guilty, everyone benefits. Life on earth, -Marc S. Tucker- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:35:55 -0200 From: "Paulo H Leocadio UOL" Subject: Property & Ownership in Art Gang, I did not receive my Club Release 17 yet. Anybody out there with the same problem? This is the 2nd time it happens but DGM does not answer my questioning. Thnx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:38:39 From: "Spear man" Subject: Club17 Release anyone? >To my complete lack of surprise, my Live in >Mexico City .wma is now so much digital garbage -- it won't >play any more because the WIMP doesn't believe that >it was correctly licensed. >I'd find a way to a copy out into the world, but I'm stuck on dialup.< it's been floating around winmx for sometime now in mp3 format--it prolly went out via napster before that.... >A personal friend, Pierce Turner (who was tied in with Phillip Glass briefly) hates this kind of thing... whenever he hears about someone selling their own, or copying, a release of his, his question is always "Why didn't you want them to buy it new so I'd make a buck?" (as Pierce is an artist with a small following).< Perhaps it's because one actually purchased the CD to do with what one wishes rather than a license-in-perpetuity to play said CD. Look at what the license-in-perpetuity thing did for bootlegtv.... just the tip of the iceberg, I imagine. One can hardly wait for Microsoft's one more XP nightmare to be unleased on the public. Talk about license hell. --spearman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:39:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Mahoney Subject: used CD controversy/mexico city.wma/MS XP my response is below: > Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:35:25 -0300 > From: "Ignacio Lois" > Subject: Yes and Crimson > > Hi, my name is Ignacio, and I received today my first issue of ET. > > I noticed there is a controversy about Yes and King Crimson. Although I > didn't get a chance to listen to Magnification, I think Yes and Crim are > two very different bands; at some levels comparison is not possible. > > I'd like to state one great difference: the sense of musical form. In > Crimson it's a virtue, and in Yes it's a flaw. Most Crimson songs are > exquisitly constructed, and in some cases Yes songs aren't (this can be > noted especially in the long ones. Sometimes they seem to me like > regular songs, but stretched like bubblegum to fit 20 or 30 minutes). I > like Yes very much, I enjoy a big deal of their work, but Tales... (for > instance) makes me drowsy. > > On the other hand, here's an interesting anecdote, a little experiment > anyone can do: I had a girlfriend a couple of years ago, and I played > Fracture to her (the Starless and Bible Black version). She didn't know > much about King Crimson. When the song ended, in an effort to prove to > her that the song was greatly composed, I asked her which she thought > was the duration of the song, a question she didn't expect at all. She > said something near 4.30 minutes, and she was very surprised when I told > her it actually lasted 11.17 minutes. > > Some of you may say that proves nothing, but the way I see it, relative > timing tells you a lot about balance on a piece of music. > > What I'm trying to say is: the Yes guys are great musicians, great > performers, they had great ideas, but they lose themselves when it comes > to great forms. This is not a matter of taste: I find in many of these > long songs elements which are unbalanced. In fact, in Wakeman's solo > album The Wives... there was one particular piece (I can't remember > which one) that was a chaotic succession of ideas, all of them nice > separatedly, but there was no connection between them and no development > of any. > > The point is, when you have a solid songwriting, you have a strong basis > from which you can move on and be fresh and adventurous; when you know > how to deal with form (which has the same laws no matter what kind of > music), you can feel free to experiment with the means; otherwise the > only thing left to do is to walk the same paths over and over. > I have also noticed this displacement of time when experiencing a great piece of music weather it be classical like beethovens 9th haydns piano sonatas 49-52 or prog: soft machines 4th ......and some yes I have to say no to....but the yes album and fragile are certainly excellently composed written and performed IMHO... wouldnt say the same about 90125. was listening to klaus schulzes 'x' the other morning which I highly recommend and the same happened during this - a 25 minute composition going by in a nanosecond!!!! well okay- maybe more like a whole second. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:37:11 -0500 From: "Antoine W. Caron" Subject: time keeps on slipping slipping slipping... I think the extracts from Sid Smith's book spoke for themselves. But anyways... The making of the book was a fun story to follow, refreshingly devoid of hype. Already,it is an impressive achievement on Sid's part to have interviewed almost all past Crims and all the major people gravitating around the band over three decades. Surely, a person able to pull that off most have a special way with people! It appears that Smith has gained Fripp's respect and confidence while at the same time giving a voice to the (many!) other actors in the saga. But still and above all, I know that "In the Court of King Crimson" is the book of a true Crim nut (anorak?)! aWc _______aWc______ Antoine W. Caron awc at sympatico dot ca http://awc.iuma.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:04:07 +0100 From: Mr Tea Subject: Sid's teasers This from David Restrepo in ET #879 > Warning! There's a new book out for sale (Sep 2001) by a certain Robert > Fripp (not the same Fripp). > > Let There Be Life : A Scientific and Poetic Retelling of the Genesis > Creation Story by Robert Fripp Damn! A book about Genesis by Robert Fripp!!!?! And not a single mention of prog rock!???? Thanks for the warning, David. What's next? A book about Jethro Tull (18th century intensive farming pioneer) by Greg Lake (Professor of Agricultural studies at Wiltshire Technical College). Mr Tea -- Brew of the day: Assam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 02:26:53 -0600 From: "Prog Frog" Subject: Fripp on genesis Ahemm, yes, I know this is supposed to be a King Crimson newsletter and not a Yes one, but I hadn't gotten to listen to Magnification until a couple of days ago. Now that I have, well, I must say that I was impressed...I didn't think the members in Yes had it in themselves anymore to record such a great album..... The controversy. however, may come from the following difference between Yes and King Crimson: Magnification is indeed a step forward for Yes and the band certainly isn't trying to record Close to the Edge or Big Generator anymore, but all the classic Yes elements are there. A fan who hasn't listened to Yes ever since Fragile may pause for a second when listening to this album but will then recognize it for Yes without a hint of doubt. With King Crimson, meanwhile, the band hasn't evolved...It has Megametamorphosed every time. Put Discipline beside In the Court of the Crimson King (don't even mention VRRROOM) and there's no way in hell you can tell that it's the "same" band. Sure, King Crimson has evolved more than Yes has, but that meant leaving everything behind (bold and extremely cool move though, if you ask me). By the way, Magnification gets bonus point for actually USING the orchestra. After having listened to the symphonic Pink Floyd release, I didn't quite know if I'd ever had the valor to listen to an orchestra working with progressive rock ever again! On progfreaks-related territory....I just wanted to thank you guys for visiting us and giving us a chance! Marcelo Silveyra Progfreaks.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 19:38:45 -0400 From: "Nik Smith" Subject: Magnification I don't think you could be anymore wrong. Have you heard MAGNIFICATION?! or THE LADDER? or KEYS TO ASCENSION 2? All of this is EXCELLENT work, I'd say far better then any new Crimson work. Yes, they do play their older material at shows, but that is just because they a true piece of timeless art and no one complains when they play Gates of Delirium or Close To The Edge. Further more I think that Crimson is neglecting their 70s side, they are trying too hard to distance themselves from that, which I don't like. Their best music was in the 70s, they were good in the 80s, but now they just aren't sure who they are. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 00:29:08 -0700 From: "Dale DeHoedt" Subject: Re: More about YES and Krimson by Jorge Luis Jimenez I enthusiastically ordered tickets to the upcoming tour through SCI. Usually, when I order something online I receive an order confirmation that the order has been "received" "processed" "shipped". I attempted to send them an email to pose this question and it was sent back undeliverable. Dale ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 16:10:15 -0500 From: "Rod LeCloux" Subject: preorder tickets I just bought my tickets for the Madison 11/23/01 show thru SCI. Supposedly these are Premium Crimson Tickets. How can I tell? The confirmation says "General Admission" under the Seats column on my transaction form. I have no idea where my seats are?? Rod ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #880 ********************************