Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #876 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 876 Saturday, 13 October 2001 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: Krimson ConneKctions page Dangerous Curves CDR Sheltering sky skip & CLUB17 Steve Hackett joins "King Crimson" Showing your likes.. Stephen King's Crimson King Stephen King Crimso Dangerous Curves addition "Adrian leaving KC" all a misunderstanding. Yat-Kha/best audience query Re: Yes and Crim (ET #875) Ken Burns, Wynton and "Jazz" Re: Stephen King's Crimson King USA hallucination? Live in Mexico City - what a pity ! a new elephant reader New Yes album (and a little kContent) Dandy in white suit? Stephen King's Crimson King Re: The new album from Yes... Trey's Warr Guitar Re; Latest Yes Album & Crimson Expectations! Re: Live in Mexico City :-( Full Metal Jacket ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 21:41:39 -0400 From: Dave Subject: GIG BIZ: Krimson ConneKctions page Hey gang... With the possibility of a November tour, a reminder that http://www.midnightmecca.com/crim/fsguest.html is awaiting posts from/for Crimsos going to shows that want to find others needing or having spare tix/hotel space/etc to swap/sell/share, or even just to meet up! Drop in and check it out... Thanx Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 20:35:49 +0000 From: "Danny Anderson" Subject: Dangerous Curves CDR Well, now that all of the BS on whether Krimz'n should be on the same stage as Tool is over with and the fact that Krim is [probably going to bypass the Pacific Northwest couples with the fact that they are going to have a concert EP named Level 5 to be sold at concerts, I decided to create my own CDR of the new material of 2001. My sources are the 12th & Porter 2001 concerts and West Palm Beach. I call it "Dangerous Curves." Personal review is as follows: 1. Dangerous Curves - the Devil's Triangle for the new millenium. 2. Crimson Blue - Blues played ala Crim. 3. Respond To Stimuli - prelude to the heaviness of Level 5. 4. Level 5 - truly oppressive. Sonic vibrations which will sterilize frogs at 1,000 yards. 5. Cyriel - Floating and haunting. 6. Heavy ConstruKction - re-done ProjeKct material with a slower, yet stronger middle. 7. ConstruKction - Rather Lark's Tongues In Aspic, part 3 - like in portions. 8. 12 & P improv - the last vestiges of the 2000 tour sound. The new stuff shows a varying in texture which TCOL did not have. Should be marvellous when it comes out. Dan PS Any traders can contact me at dannyleeanderson at hotmail dot com or visit www.danandersonkarate.com/music/music ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 22:08:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Teofilus Kierto Subject: Sheltering sky skip & CLUB17 I wonder if all those who have had problems with the Discipline remaster could be a bit more specific with their skip claims. Where exactly does the skip occur? I do love Sheltering Sky but listening to it over and over again skipspotting is hardly my idea of musical enjoyment. Also, could someone inform me about the alleged defects on the first batch of CLUB17. What? Where? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 22:16:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Teofilus Kierto Subject: Steve Hackett joins "King Crimson" There was an interesting interview with ex-Genesis axeman Steve Hackett on World of Genesis website recently where he among other topics discusses "King Crimson": WOG: Record Collector Magazine wrote that you plan to join forces with some ex-King Crimson members to record under the name Crimson. Is that true? SH: It's not strictly true. Mike Giles, who was the original King Crimson drummer, phoned me up and asked if I would be interested in playing at a concert over a re-formed King Crimson with all of the original members; because, they'd assumed that Robert Fripp wouldn't want to do it. So, he asked would I be interested having worked with Ian (McDonald). So, I said, "tell me more." It seems that there may be a number of guest musicians for this. They may have a number of guitarists to, perhaps, help them get over the fact that they are without their original guitarist. They wanted to do the classic material, early stuff. Whether or not they'll still do this, I don't know, but I gather that various people apart from Robert (Fripp) have given it the thumbs up... from the original 1969 Crimson. WOG: So, this is more of a one-off thing? There are no plans for an album? SH: Well, I think this is talking about a one-off thing. I don't think that they intend to get together to record an album. It's nice to be asked is all I can say. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 15:08:28 -0400 From: John Sowerby Subject: Showing your likes.. At 19:14 10/1/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Yes. His physical being is pent in a cell at the top of the Tower, but he >has another manifestation, every bit as real, and this lives in Can-tah >Abbalah -- the Court of the Crimson King." I don't know about this being a coincidence. William Gibson sprinkled his 'Sprawl' series with Steely Dan references. John S. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 15:16:24 EDT From: WinterDE at aol dot com Subject: Stephen King's Crimson King Regarding Chris Deming's post about "Stephen King's Crimson King" . . . it's not a coincidence, but something that dates back to my anthology PRIME EVIL, whose opening section -- "In the Court of the Crimson King" -- presented Steve's story "The Night Flier." His novel INSOMNIA offers many more references and clues. Douglas E. Winter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 14:28:06 -0500 From: "Ghosty" Subject: Stephen King Crimso Hey guys, I stopped by and shot an inquiry about the below concidence (?), I imagine I should hear something in a couple of weeks - I'm something of a King fan and have asked questions through the folks who handle his email before. In the meantime, here's a snippet that King fans of this list, for some reason, might be interested in. For heaven's sake, don't ask me why. :-) And no, I don't happen to know what instrument Stephen plays, if any. -- snippet -- 2001 Autumn: The Rock Bottom Remainders (Band with Stephen King, Amy Tan, Dave Barry, Mitch Albom, Scott Thurow, Ridley Pearson, James McBride, and special guest Steve Miller.) The band will be appearing at concerts to benefit America Scores. They will be appearing at: October 30 New York City The World (1501 Broadway) October 31 Chicago Park West (311 W. Armitage Avenue) November 2 Denver Gothic Theater (3263 South Broadway, Englewood) --- snippet --- > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 23:12:42 -0400 > From: "Chris Deming" > Subject: Stephen King's Crimson King > > There has been a satanic character named the Crimson King mentioned briefly > in some of Stephen King's recent books. In his latest: "Black House", on > which he collaborated with Peter Straub, there's a passage that contains the > name of King Crimson's first album - almost: (pg 441) > "Yes. His physical being is pent in a cell at the top of the Tower, but he > has another manifestation, every bit as real, and this lives in Can-tah > Abbalah -- the Court of the Crimson King." > > I think its just a coincidence, though - I don't think there was a conscious > effort to refer to the album. If there was a Crimson King, it would be > reasonable to assume that he would have a court... > > ------------------------------ -- Radio Ghosty - The Spirit of Progressive Music 56K or Above - http://internet-radio.tripod.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 20:54:06 +0000 From: "Danny Anderson" Subject: Dangerous Curves addition Whoops! As usual I forgot to put the entire web address of my music site: www.danandersonkarate.com/music/music.html There. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 14:14:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Carey Subject: "Adrian leaving KC" all a misunderstanding. The source of the "Adrian leaving KC" rumor was Mr. Fripp's diary archives. About this time in 1999, Fripp did, indeed, write that he'd received a notice that Adrian was leaving the band. A day or two later, he wrote about the resolution: Adrian had worried that he wouldn't be able to keep up with all of his commitments and also be a part of KC, but a chat with Robert pretty much cleared it up straight away. The entire issue was raised and resolved in half a week two years ago. Readers of Fripp's now "Archives Only" diaries saw the issue replayed fairly recently. One innocent if careless reader, however, clearly misunderstood that it was a reprint, and commented on it in the Guestbook as if it were a current event: "What's this about Adrian leaving the band?" A few GB posters responded with questions, none responded with answers, and a misunderstanding became a rumor that has now spread to ET. I don't have any personal contact with Mr. Belew. I don't know his mind or intention. For all I know, perhaps he does mean to leave the band. But we have no reason to believe so. There is no current news item anywhere that substantiates this, and, provided it doesn't spread beyond control like the persistent South American concert rumors, the next time you'll hear it from anyone but a fan will be when it reappears in the archives under the heading "Three Years Ago". -shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 21:46:32 From: "Spear man" Subject: Yat-Kha/best audience query >From: Tom Bolstad Subject: Yat-Kha tour & 'best audience' query thanks for the review of Yat-Kha--didn't get to see 'em as they had travel problems as part of the aftermath of September 11th, so they didn't perform at the Monterey World Music Festival--1st US date of their tour. :_( Maybe next time. As for best audience, I'd say it was a tie between two shows--both featuring Henry Kaiser--one at the Palms Public Playhouse in Davis, CA with Danny Carnahan and Robin Petrie et al ,the other, at Chabot Planetarium in the Oakland Hills when he jammed with David Gans and unf, I have forgotten who else. --spearman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 17:50:09 -0400 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Re: Yes and Crim (ET #875) Ryan Tassone wrote in ET 875 about how after hearing the new Yes album, he was moved to characterize the band (especially in the 90's asespecially in the '90's-- as "weak", "pretensious", and "unmemorable." The point being, of course, the contrast between this and the "fresh" and "adventurous" Crimson. While I have not heard "Magnification", I assure you, I am not writing to disagree with Ryan. Quite the contrary. The thing about Yes is, after 30 years, you are basically talking about the same core of musicians-- Anderson, Aquire, How, and White, with some stunt double for Rick Wakeman (when it isn't Wakeman himself). When these guys come together, inevitably they fall into the same patterns, ways of doing things. Crimson, on the other hand, is essentially the vision of one man-- Robert Fripp. (Yeah, I know, that will engender much response and flamage, so if you are inclined toward that, please replace that sentence with, "Crimson on the other hand has only one long-standing member-- Robert Fripp." That ought to make things nicer.) I mean, could you imagine what Crimson would sound like if after 30 years the line-up was still, say, Fripp, Lake, McDonald, and Giles? Could you bear the umpteenth rewrite of Schizoid Man? The Crimson verson of Karn Evil 9? I guess what I'm saying is, because Yes keeps reconvening the same cast of characters, you get a nostalgia show. Let's face it-- the current/recent tour features two tunes from Magnification, and ignores entirely every other thing they've done since 1977. And Yes releases more versions of "Roundabout" than Zsa Zsa Gabor has husbands. Crimson CAN'T do that. Because of the band's constant turnover. When a line-up is done with the music that there for it to play, Fripp disperses it. No one else I can think of operates like that. And that is why there is no one else from that same era ( a band releasing an album in the 60's) is anything like Crim. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 21:52:26 From: "Michel Champagne" Subject: Ken Burns, Wynton and "Jazz" I have to agree wholeheartedly with Ted White's written review of the "Jazz" documentary; if you haven't read it, it's definitely well worth reading. Thanks, Ted, for the reminder. Moving right along . . . the following was apparently forwarded through at least a few of people before I got it, back in January of this year, and the first paragraph was written by one of them. Alas, I can't give him credit as I don't know who it was (except that his name is Pete) but he gives proper credit for the rest of this posting so I feel obliged to leave it in. I might also add that I had the pleasure of attending my freshman year of high school with Wynton, and he was just as hard-headed and opinionated then as he is now. Interestingly, though, he was not as particularly fond of Louis Armstrong as he has come to be. Back then (1975) he already considered himself the proverbial "voice crying in the wilderness" but his mission then was to turn us all on to Miles Davis and Freddie Hubbard. We were all like "Who are they?" At any rate, the following is much more entertaining than the foregoing. The following was written by Bill Hungate, Dave Hungate's father and was forwarded to The Bottom Line, a discussion group for bass players. Bill is a jazz tenor player, former Congressman, Watergate prosecutor, retired attorney and Federal Judge. He is a published author....and very funny. Pete <\intro> PRESENTING KEN BURNS 144-hour EXTREMELY IMPORTANT DOCUMENTARY "JAZZ." Fade up on a grainy old photograph of a man in a three-piece suit, holding a cornet. Or a bicycle horn, it's hard to tell. Narrator: Skunkbucket LeFunke was born in 1876 and died in 1901. No one who heard him is alive today. The grandchildren of the people who heard him are not alive today. The great-grandchildren of the people who heard him are not alive today. He was never recorded. Wynton Marsalis: I'll tell you what Skunkbucket LeFunke sounded like. He had this big rippling sound, and he always phrased off the beat, and he slurred his notes. And when the Creole bands were still playing De-bah-de-bah-ta-da-tah, he was already playing Bo-dap-da-lete-do-do-do-bah! He was just like gumbo, ahead of his time. Announcer: LeFunke was a cornet player, gambler, card shark, pool hustler, pimp, male prostitute, Kelly Girl, computer programmer, brain surgeon and he invented the internet. Stanley Crouch: When people listened to Skunkbucket LeFunke, they heard Do-do-dee-bwap-da-dee-dee-de-da-da-doop-doop-dap. And they knew even then how deeply profound that was. Announcer: It didn't take LeFunke long to advance the art of jazz past its humble beginnings in New Orleans whoredom with the addition of a bold and sassy beat. Wynton: Let me tell you about the Big Four. Before the Big Four, jazz drumming sounded like BOOM-chick-BOOM-chick-BOOM-chick. But now they had the Big Four, which was so powerful some said it felt like a Six. A few visiting musicians even swore they were in an Eight. Stanley: It was smooth and responsive, and there was no knocking and pinging, even on 87 octane. Wynton: Even on gumbo. Announcer: When any musician in the world heard Louis Armstrong for the first time, they gnawed their arm off with envy, then said the angels probably wanted to sound like Louis. When you consider a bunch of angels talking in gruff voices and singing "Hello Dolly," you realize what a stupid aspiration that is. Gary Giddy: Louis changed jazz because he was the only cat going Do-da-dep-do-wah-be-be, while everyone else was doing Do-de-dap-dit-dit-dee. Stanley: And that was very profound. Marsalis: Like gumbo. Stanley: Uh-huh. Matt Glaser: I always have this fantasy that when Louis performed in Belgium, Heisenberg was in the audience and he was blown away and that's where he got the idea for his Uncertainty Principle. Marsalis: Because the Uncertainty Principle, applied to jazz, means you never know if a cat is going to go Dap-da-de-do-ba-ta-bah or Dap-da-de-do-bip-de-beep. Wynton: Louis was the first one to realize that. Stanley: And that can be very profound. Stanley: I thought it was a box of chocolates... Announcer: The Savoy Ballroom brought people of all races colors and political persuasions together to get sweaty as Europe moved closer and closer to the brink of World War II. Savoy Dancer: We didn't care what color you were at the Savoy. We only cared if you were wearing deodorant. Stanley: Wynton always wears deodorant. Glaser: I'll bet Arthur Murray was on the dance floor and he was thinking about Louis and that's where he got the idea to open a bunch of dance schools. Stanley: And that was very profound. Giddy: Let's talk about Louis some more. We've wasted three minutes of this 57-part documentary not talking about Louis. Wynton: He was an angel, a genius, much better than Cats. Stanley: He invented the word "Cats." Wynton: He invented swing, he invented jazz, he invented the telephone, the automobile and the polio vaccine. Stanley: And the internet. Wynton: Very profound. Announcer: Louis Armstrong turned commercial in the 1930s and didn't make any more breakthrough contributions to jazz. But it's not PC to point that out, so we'll be showing him in every segment of this series to come, even if he's just doing the same things as the last time you saw him. Glaser: I'll bet Chuck Yeager was in the audience when Louis was hitting those high Cs at the Earle Theater in Philadelphia, and that's what made him decide to break the sound barrier. Stanley: And from there go to Pluto. Wynton: I'm going to make some gumbo- Stanley: BOOM-chick-BOOM-chick-BOOM-chick... Giddy: Do-yap-do-wee-bah-scoot-scoot-dap-dap...That's what all the cats were saying back then. Announcer: In 1964, John Coltrane was at his peak, Eric Dolphy was in Europe, where he would eventually die, the Modern Jazz Quartet was making breakthrough recordings in the field of Third Stream Music, Miles Davis was breaking new barrier with his second great quintet, and Charlie Mingus was extending jazz composition to new levels of complexity. But we're going to talk about Louis singing "Hello Dolly" instead. Stanley: Louis went, Ba-ba-yaba-do-do-dee-da-bebin-doo-wap-deet-deet-do-da-da. Wynton: Sweets went, Scoop-doop-shalaba-yaba-mokey-hokey-bwap-bwap-tee-tee-dee. Giddy: I go, Da-da-shoobie-doobie-det-det-det-bap-bap-baaaaa... Announcer: The rest of the history of jazz will be shown in fast forward and will occupy exactly seven seconds. --There, that was it. Now here are some scenes from Ken Burns' next documentary, a 97-part epic about the Empire State Building, titled "The Empire State Building." "It is tall and majestic. It is America's building. It is the Empire State Building. Dozens of workers gave their lives in the construction of this building." Matt Glaser: I'll bet that they were thinking of Louis as they were falling to their deaths. I have this fantasy that his high notes inspired the immenseness of the Empire State Building. Wynton Marsalis: I'll bet most people who'd fall off the Empire State Building would go "Aaaaaahhhh!" But these cats went "Dee-dee-daba-da-da-bop-bop-de-dop-shewap-splat!" "That's next time on PBS." <\piece> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 17:54:30 EDT From: GenoTT at aol dot com Subject: Re: Stephen King's Crimson King >There has been a satanic character named the Crimson King mentioned briefly >in some of Stephen King's recent books. In his latest: "Black House", on >which he collaborated with Peter Straub, there's a passage that contains the >name of King Crimson's first album - almost: (pg 441) >"Yes. His physical being is pent in a cell at the top of the Tower, but he >has another manifestation, every bit as real, and this lives in Can-tah >Abbalah -- the Court of the Crimson King." Steve K used the phrase "Court of the Crimson King" in his book Insomnia as well, referring to the domain of some demonic character. I'm pretty sure it's a coincidence. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 17:56:55 -0400 From: Geordie Robertson Subject: USA hallucination? Hello ETers! I seem to remember in the later years of my youth (back when you could buy flat black discs of sonically encoded petrochemical by-products at music stores) seeing a copy of USA with a large red white and blue "USA" on the sleeve instead of the "hand holding a slab of metal" cover. Has this album ever been produced with such a sleeve or is my memory failing me? Someone please help me out. This question is really driving me crazy.... Thanks in advance for your help, - Geordie Robertson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 21:22:53 -0300 From: "carlos h moller" Subject: Live in Mexico City - what a pity ! well, regarding the Mexico City download.. at the time, i had enough time to download it, listen to it, convert it to a BIG wave file and then chop it in little tracks and... voila ! a CD was born !! sorry that there were people who couldn't do such a basic task (or at least know someone who could) and now, we have VROOM VROOM (or "The same....different). when we're going to listen to some new stuff?? there are times that (even a big fan like me) one would have to say: "how many times i would have to 'bear' One Time?????" come on guys ! move on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Carlos Henrique Moller Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer chmoller at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 21:33:23 -0700 From: "ray sutliff" Subject: a new elephant reader Hello ya'll. I have been a lurker for a while and am now posting for the first time. I love the band, have been a fan for a while, and enjoyed reading past editions of the newsletter. I missed the group when they were here in SoCal last. But the video selections on Heavy ConsruKction tided me over. Glad I found the correct password. That one had me going for a LONG time. I call this music 'intellectual' music, not because I think I am any smarter than my friends or co-workers, but they just don't seem to get it. They ask me what the hell that noise is coming from my speakers...while they play Snoop Dog or Primus or any other amount of garbage. And I don't waste my time trying to explain what Crimson or Hackett or Eno or any others are all about. Anyhow, that's my three and a half cents worth. And I won't try and get Mr Fripp's autograph if I happen to see him next time they are in SoCal. Don't want to ruin things. Ray From Texas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 20:49:54 +1200 From: David Maclennan Subject: New Yes album (and a little kContent) I think Ryan Tassone was a little too hard on Yes in ET#875. Myself, I think Magnification sounds very fresh, a bit of a break with tradition for them in dispensing with keyboards. The songs are mostly pretty good (there's nothing on it I totally hate, unlike with The Ladder), and a couple are very good. Sure, it's not Close to the Edge but hey.... The only thing that bugs me about it a bit is that they've toned the band's sound down a bit, doubtless to blend in better with the orchestra. It lacks the usual brightness in the sound. But it is well recorded, especially the vocals. The orchestra works well, better than I'd hoped for, but all the same, I think they should go back to having a keyboardist again next time. Bring back Igor! The album Magnification most makes me think of is Going for the One, for some reason. And the lyrics are Anderson's usual thing, sure, but his messages are at least positive, and I reckon the world can do with all the positivity vibes it can get right now..... and finally, some kContent: Just got P2 Live in Northampton 1998, and on first listening I'm tempted to call it the best P2 release yet. It rocks!! Cheers, David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:51:30 +0200 From: "Florian Reiss" Subject: Dandy in white suit? Hi there, everybody. Just wanted to respond to Henno's question from # 875: "I just received 30th anniversary edission of "Red". Who is this dandy in a white suit, drinking beer from a can on the first page? Seems to be pretty important figure, doesn't it? Only don't tell me that it's Bruford! greetings henno" Nah, it's David Cross. Flo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 00:46:59 +0700 From: Xenantaya Subject: Stephen King's Crimson King > I think its just a coincidence, though - I don't think there was a conscious > effort to refer to the album. If there was a Crimson King, it would be > reasonable to assume that he would have a court... Hi Chris, Actually you would find the similar reference in King's other novel, "Insomnia"; it called "The Crimson King". I actually believe that Crimson King are Stephen King's characters inspired by the bands...and himself. Especially the sound that KC (the band) made at their first album, the haunting quality seems to stuck in Stephen King's mind.... BTW, "Insomnia" is good! Salam Sakral! Reza! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 14:36:17 +0100 From: "Dougie" Subject: Re: The new album from Yes... Hi everybody, In ET #875, Ryan wrote: >Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:33:23 -0400 >From: "Ryan Tassone" >Subject: The new album from Yes... >Hi everybody, > I just bought Magnification, the latest Yes album, and to be brief: >King Crimson kicks ass. Yup, that's pretty much the only thing I could >think of during every song, how KC has gone to such lengths to stay fresh >and adventurous...and here's this weak, pretentious effort from a band I >still love, Yes. Yes's career during the late 90's until now has been >unmemorable to say the least, with them always striving for two impossible >ideals I agree with Ryan that KC kick ass, however, I have to strongly disagree that _Magnification_ is a weak and pretentious effort from Yes. IMHO, and I'm not alone by any stretch of the imagination in thinking this, this has got to be one Yes' most coherent and strongest albums since _Going For The One_ It wasn't an afterthougt to tag the orchestra on because of the departure of Igor Khoroshev, the whole album was written with the Orchestra in mind. I don't see what is pretentious about the album at all. If you are referring to the obvious "Yes" moments on the album, I would say what's wrong with sticking to what you know the fans like, and that you as a band are good at. After all, isn't that what KC do also? I would argue it is. If it's the orchestra that bothers you, then open your ears, and widen your musical horizons. If it's just that YOU personally don't like it, then that's fine also. Music is a very subjective thing. Personally, although I have all KC albums, I'm not that keen on the early KC apart from perhaps _Red_. _Islands_ for example, never gets played, as I found it to be not to my taste. But I wouldn't bad mouth it, just because it's not to my liking. I'm genuinely sorry that you don't "get" _Magnification_. At the moment, with a good set of headphones there is no better album to listen to in it's entirety at the moment. Lots of wonderful moments that just scream out to be listened to again and again. Regards Dougie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 22:12:37 +0100 From: "Edward of Sim" Subject: Trey's Warr Guitar Hi! Thought this might be of interest to some fellow ET musician: http://www.warrguitars.com/specials.html They're selling the "brother" instrument to the latest one they made for Trey, it's the only other one. I'd be interested myself, but I don't have the dosh. Not even close. :-) peace Edward +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+ Edward of Sim a Californian in Lancashire edward at mysticinsect dot freeserve dot co dot uk http://www.mysticinsect.freeserve.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 10:37:26 +1000 From: "Tony Greig" Subject: Re; Latest Yes Album & Crimson Expectations! Hello Again Crimophiles, Well, I cannot sit back and read Ryan Tassone in ET 875 without seeking a 'few' clarifications etc! Regarding his Yes "Magnification" rave, shouldn't you be posting to 'Notes from the Edge' Ryan? But seeing as you continue to compare Yes with Crimson, or Crimson with other bands, I suppose you have posted to ET because you are waffling on about Crimson at times, whilst bagging Yes and other bands (as well as Crimson)! Sheesh! What's the problem? You appear to be rather critical in your expectations of what these musicians should or shouldn't be doing! What would you know about these chaps and their pursuit of musical bliss? For a favourite band of your's (Yes), you seem to be well up on their latest offerings and yet at the same time, you feel the need to seek some sort of justification as to why you purchased any new material or even attended a concert. You either like it or you do not like it! Here we go............... Ryans waffle: > I just bought Magnification, the latest Yes album, and to be brief: >King Crimson kicks ass. Yup, that's pretty much the only thing I could >think of during every song, how KC has gone to such lengths to stay fresh >and adventurous...and here's this weak, pretentious effort from a band I >still love, Yes. Yes's career during the late 90's until now has been >unmemorable to say the least, with them always striving for two impossible >ideals: 1. What has Yes' latest offering 'Magnification' have to do with King Crimson? 2. What are you doing listening to Yes and thinking of King Crimson in comparison? Why? It is irrelevant to do so! 3. Weak, pretentious effort from a band you love! Gee, what is love? 4. From the late 90's until now has been ..........? How? What, that it just doesn't blow you away like their earlier material? What are the two impossible ideals? Ryan continues to waffle: >1. (High-pitched Lancastrian voice of Jon Anderson) "This song is very >modern and driving, and we're hoping to get a lot of airplay on FM radio >with it." I'm paraphrasing, but he's said that about at least one song >from each album they've released since 1993. So there's the songs they >have, and then this pop tune that wants to be "Owner of a Lonely Heart," >which everybody knows can't happen again. KC is relaxingly devoid of any >such aspirations lately, and I happen to think they handled the temptation >of "selling out" in the 80's better than almost any mainly-70's group. >ELP, Rush, and even Tull were seen to succumb to that force, but KC did >what KC does best: adapt, transform! What does Jon Anderson's voice or place of birth have to do with it? So what if he apparently says that on each concert tour for a new album! You really do think that these guys are trying to record another hit single or expect a modern single type of song to become a number one hit? It's you Ryan who thinks that, more than likely nobody else does! You are correct though that it will not happen again! Do you think that Steve Howe would want that to happen again? I doubt it, as he distances himself from that era of Yes as he was not involved in the band at that time, as you would be aware. I do not hear any copying or imitating of 'Owner of a Lonely Heart' in any newer songs, it is Ryan comparing again! Good on Crimson for not 'selling out in the 80's', just for Ryan too, thanks Crimson, Ryan appreciates it! What is this 'selling out' bullshit? Yes had commercial success with 90125, that's fine in my book (and no doubt in a lot of other people's too), Tull won a Grammy, great to see some recognition, oh and by the way, it wasn't Ian Anderson and company who awarded themselves a Grammy, is that the selling out you are referring to? Rush were hugely successsful both in Europe and the U.S. throughout the 80's, Bravo! As for ELP, what the Emerson, Lake & Powell album? Touch and Go was the single wasn't it? A superb single and a great album and also a daring move if I may say so myself! King Crimson did what all these other bands did in the 80's, compose and perform their own music! Any commercial benefits that may have risen from this era of music, would have very little to do with the musicians, apart from the fact that they composed and performed their music, and also were possibly contracted to certain record companies and the other trappings that may go with it. Ryan still waffling: >2. (Anderson continues) "And another song is a gift to the fans we've had >since we began, and it's a 15-minute, four part epic about the center of >moments." Still paraphrasing, but it's the voice of decay, of stagnation >in music. The energy is gone, so all they can muster up is a nostalgia >trip from a time when energy was readily available. Recently, I think KC >is in danger of this, but not fully absorbed in it...I am a bit >disappointed at the constant references to classic songs in their new >material, titles, and lyrics. I'd imagine it's leading somewhere, knowing >Fripp, but I'd much rather see an album of totally new, intuitive music >with no precedent anywhere before it. THRAK was always that way to me. Paraphrasing who? Himself? Voice of decay & stagnation in music? Explain yourself please? The energy is gone? What energy is that? Oh, and Crimson have dabbled in this too? But not fully, phew, that was close! I knew it, all long these artists should have contacted you Ryan, and everything would have been .....? Perfect, meeting your expectations, not selling out, not stagnating either? Show me an artist who hasn't his or her own signature on the things they do. Musicians, like anyone in life, retain a sense of themselves in their own evolving musical journey and you often get a recognizable sound, note, melody or feel in what they compose and or perform. A musical piece can, like most things in life, evolve from a point in time with a constant changing, shifting pattern emerging through it, from within it! It does not mean that the artist is using words & music or whatever from their experiences in life, to rely on it for inspiration or nostalgia at a later point in time! And even if it did, hooray for them! Ryan's final waffle: >Like anything from Yes, there are strong points, but the choice to >include an orchestra backing the whole thing, and all 40 of the players >can't match the intensity of one keyboard player (yup, a Yes album with no >keyboard player). Some things are necessary to retain from the past, >unless a group is prepared to completely discard their old ways...and Yes >isn't. >I applaud Crimson again, but warn them from afar not to slip into a >pattern of limitless P.J. Crook album covers, "Kc" everywhere, and upcoming >songs called "The GREATER Deciever" or "Four of a Perfect Trio!" Oh, Yes still do have their 'strong points' do they? That is not what you were saying earlier on! From the 90's until the present day or back in the "selling out" 80's and the "classic" 70's & 60's, there are a lot of those fond stirring memories evoking a magical moment in our life and sometimes we never forget it and maybe still yearn for it today and cannot find it. And because we cannot find it, the latest offerings from these artists appear to be lacking in or devoid of or boring etc, etc. Is that what you are implying Ryan? Recording and touring with an orchestra is a bold and daring move that Yes could pull off no trouble at all in my book (and seem to be according to fans reviews of the recently concluded North American tour). A different orchestra in each city, for each concert, you do not get anymore positive than that, in challenging yourself and your compositions! (not to mention the conductor & orchestra as well). Classical Rock, as opposed to classic rock, there is a big difference! Without a keyboard player is simply turning around the notion that in the past and even today, there was the "mellotron or keyboard" playing the orchestration parts within a rock band! Why not play the music with the "correct or real" orchestration? Is that not moving on? I cannot see any stagnation going on there! That is evolving music, brilliant stuff! Again Crimson is pleased Ryan applaudes them, but the warning? This is a dangerous place! Do not take this personally Ryan, but you hit a nerve! I have not had the pleasure of listening to Magnification yet, but look forward to that moment and to eventually purchasing it! I will be listening to it for what it is, not comparing it to something else! I have incurred the wrath of the RHVL (kicking the wasps nest) following the "expectations" I was placing on Crimson, regarding their setlist and 'older' material for TCOL European concerts a year or so ago! From my perspective it was an observation, from Fripp's an expectation. It is a fine line! Cheers, Tony Greig. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 01:45:08 -0400 (EDT) From: david craig Subject: Re: Live in Mexico City :-( Ok, time for me to apologise. I've given DGM a hard time about how they've implemented some otherwise marvelous ideas, such as the KCTV downloads and the Heavy ConstruKction video passwords (and using WIMP format throughout). I haven't changed my opinion that -- well -- mistakes were made, but it is only fair to acknowledge how responsive they've been to their fans' concerns. As Dan pointed out last issue, they revamped the password system so that it's no longer an obstacle, but more the marketing tool it was intended to be. They were extremely helpful when I had questions connected with getting their bonus video working under certain versions of the Mac OS (), and now I see -- ironically timed, given my rant last issue -- that they are going to be releasing the Mexico City concert officially on CD. Thanks, guys! Now if we can just do something about that WIMP format [;->] Another company that didn't genuinely care about its fans would never have taken notice the way they have. So, bravo! ladies and gentlemen. It's appreciated out here. David Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 03:42:55 -0400 (EDT) From: david craig Subject: Full Metal Jacket I just saw Stanley Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket again for the first time since its release -- far and away the best of the trio of Viet Nam films released around that time. Right at the end, in the scene where Joker shoots the wounded sniper (girl), the music underscoring the freak-out tension is either frippertronics, or a pretty good sound-alike. I saw it on TV and the music credits were illegible. Any idea whether this is Fripp or not? The internet movie databases I've checked don't seem to bother with trivia like music.... David Craig ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #876 ********************************