Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #875 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 875 Wednesday, 3 October 2001 Today's Topics: Selling Collector's Club discs The new album from Yes... Starless for Ericsson Red--30th anniversary That Ken Burns Jazz Thing Re: 5 Piece Crimson Slight Defence of Marsalis Re: Passwords AB exit, TL intro Live in Mexico City :-( Yat-Kha tour & 'best audience' query Soundscape HELP nothing SO special I talk to the wind Stephen King's Crimson King BPMM extra tracks Concerning Downloads, Re: MPEGging King Crimson Progrock Heaven Playlist robert unplugged ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:44:22 -0400 From: "Michael Broadman" Subject: Selling Collector's Club discs I have a few CDs from the King Crimson Collector's Club I'd like to sell: 1972 Beat Club Bremen (w/ Jamie Muir and 30 minute jam piece) 1974 Mainz, Germany 1982 Cape D'Agde, France 1995 Broadway (double trio) Projekt Four: The Roar of P4 The discs are in excellent condition. I'm only selling them because my extra-fanatic days (not just Crim, but every band) are over. These discs are of very good bootleg quality, but I still personally prefer the official releases. So, this is a good way to get these discs without actually joining the club. I'm also selling Space Groove and Thrackattak. E-mail me if you are interested. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:33:23 -0400 From: "Ryan Tassone" Subject: The new album from Yes... Hi everybody, I just bought Magnification, the latest Yes album, and to be brief: King Crimson kicks ass. Yup, that's pretty much the only thing I could think of during every song, how KC has gone to such lengths to stay fresh and adventurous...and here's this weak, pretentious effort from a band I still love, Yes. Yes's career during the late 90's until now has been unmemorable to say the least, with them always striving for two impossible ideals: 1. (High-pitched Lancastrian voice of Jon Anderson) "This song is very modern and driving, and we're hoping to get a lot of airplay on FM radio with it." I'm paraphrasing, but he's said that about at least one song from each album they've released since 1993. So there's the songs they have, and then this pop tune that wants to be "Owner of a Lonely Heart," which everybody knows can't happen again. KC is relaxingly devoid of any such aspirations lately, and I happen to think they handled the temptation of "selling out" in the 80's better than almost any mainly-70's group. ELP, Rush, and even Tull were seen to succumb to that force, but KC did what KC does best: adapt, transform! 2. (Anderson continues) "And another song is a gift to the fans we've had since we began, and it's a 15-minute, four part epic about the center of moments." Still paraphrasing, but it's the voice of decay, of stagnation in music. The energy is gone, so all they can muster up is a nostalgia trip from a time when energy was readily available. Recently, I think KC is in danger of this, but not fully absorbed in it...I am a bit disappointed at the constant references to classic songs in their new material, titles, and lyrics. I'd imagine it's leading somewhere, knowing Fripp, but I'd much rather see an album of totally new, intuitive music with no precedent anywhere before it. THRAK was always that way to me. Like anything from Yes, there are strong points, but the choice to include an orchestra backing the whole thing, and all 40 of the players can't match the intensity of one keyboard player (yup, a Yes album with no keyboard player). Some things are necessary to retain from the past, unless a group is prepared to completely discard their old ways...and Yes isn't. I applaud Crimson again, but warn them from afar not to slip into a pattern of limitless P.J. Crook album covers, "Kc" everywhere, and upcoming songs called "The GREATER Deciever" or "Four of a Perfect Trio!" Ryan Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 06:41:17 +0000 (GMT) From: "Vladimir Kalnitsky" Subject: Starless for Ericsson Dear ETers, happy possessors of Ericsson mobile phones, I'm glad to offer you my cover version of "Starless". In codes it looks like: a#a+d+#A+#A+a+#a+a+g+#d+D+Da#a+dAG . For those, who have lost the manual, the sequence of buttons is: 6 # 6 0 2 0 # 6(long) 0 # 6(long) 0 6 0 # 6 0 6 0 5 0 # 2 0 2(long) 0 2(long) 6 # 6 0 2 6(long) 5(long) . Hope to hear it someday somewhere from somebody. Vlad ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:18:36 +0200 (EET) From: Henno Sonn Subject: Red--30th anniversary I just received 30th anniversary edission of "Red". Who is this dandy in a white suit, drinking beer from a can on the first page? Seems to be pretty important figure, doesn't it? Only don't tell me that it's Bruford! greetings henno ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 15:50:23 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: That Ken Burns Jazz Thing It appears that the controversy over Ken Burns' "Jazz" continues to simmer here. That being the case, I'd like to direct those interested in the topic to my article on the subject (written soon after watching the final episode), at http://www.holeintheweb.com/drp/drpkbjazz.htm Here's a *little* of what I had to say: "Overall, I think its an impressive work, and one I intend to keep on video tape. But it is *not* the story of jazz. It is a number of stories about jazz, some of them told thoroughly and well and some of them told quickly and incompletely. Unfortunately (and this is where the critics have all chimed in) it omits many important stories of jazz. It is selective, not inclusive. "'Jazz' presents itself as a if not *the* history of jazz. But the history of jazz is more than the history of a music: it is the history of each and every individual musician who contributed to that music. As such, it is too complex to be rendered in 19 hours of video; decisions had to be made and were. Burns has said that he decided to concentrate on telling a few stories well rather than doing many more perfunctorily, and that was undoubtedly a wise choice. Even so, 'Jazz' is not a linear history so much as its a mosaic of semi-interlocking stories arranged roughly chronologically, with Louis Armstrongs story the continuing thread which ties the series together. "However, 'Jazz' is more narrowly focussed than this would imply. Its not really noticeable until we hit the 40s and jazz begins to branch out, no longer following its own linear development (which until then had seen traditional jazz superceded by Armstrongs combo jazz, that superceded by Swing, and Swing superceded by Bop). Then the focus narrows. Primarily it excludes most of the contributions made by white musicians (actually belittling the entire West Coast Cool scene with a flippant remark without examining it at all) making a mockery of the lessons taught by jazzs greatest musicians, who insisted that color had nothing to do with it." That's just the second through fourth paragraphs out of almost 30. Here are two more: "There is a reason for this odd focus, and his name is Wynton Marsalis. It is Marsalis whose commentary dominates this work, and his point of view which guided Burns (whom I suspect is more of a documentary filmmaker than he is a knowledgeable jazz enthusiast). Marsalis is a jazz-classicist. His education and knowledge of jazzs New Orleans origins is encyclopedic and well-informed. (And it is he who recreates the New Orleans proto-jazz which existed before recordings for Jazz.) And he is a neo-Bopper. "But he has his own heroes. Duke Ellington is one of his heroes, but Charles Mingus whose music built on Ellington and was more accomplished is not. Its that simple. Hes willing to acknowledge Ornette Coleman grudgingly but has no time for Eric Dolphy, preferring John Coltrane. (While Ornette Colemans FREE JAZZ is mentioned, and can be heard briefly, Eric Dolphys presence is never mentioned. Nor is Dolphy mentioned in connection with his playing with Coltrane.) He acknowledges Thelonious Monk, but ignores Sun Ra." Check it out. --TW (Dr P) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 18:14:04 -0400 From: Dan Cooper Subject: Re: 5 Piece Crimson Grant Colburn wrote: "Though I'm sure no one who loves King Crimson would have anything negative ever to say about Levin, I think the band probably works best as a 4 piece. It also probably works best with young guys who have the band as a top priority in their professional lives." That's true...Fripp is a youngster. Daniel A. Cooper Programmer Lake, Snell, Perry & Associates 1726 M Street, NW Suite 500 Washington, DC 20036 dcooper at lspa dot com cooper_dan12 at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 11:52:00 +1000 From: "John Drayton" Subject: Slight Defence of Marsalis Like other posters I find Wynton's endless rhetoric both over-bearing and less informed than he would, I think, have us believe. At the same time, when he shuts up and plays he becomes something altogether more important. To me, there is indeed something radical about stretching a genre from within that genre's established modes. So, for example, Steely Dan were, IMO, much more revolutionary than, say, The Velvet Underground; Daryl Hall's "Sacred Songs" edgier than either "Exposure" or Gabriel's 2nd (or just about anything else he's done). Marsalis' take on "Jelly Roll" Morton, the first disc of "Blood on the Fields" and "The Mariac Suite", among others, work for me as a listener just as bracingly as John Zorn and Derek Bailey. The Ken Burns documentary has yet to screen here in Australia and I probably won't watch it, having found his Civil War film way too sentimental. I point this out because I have no disagreement with people who have criticised Marsalis' commentary therein. Hell, I think most musicians should "shut up 'n' play their guitars". I'd rather listen to "Let the Power Fall", for example, than try to work my way through the liner notes again :-) John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 23:25:48 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Re: Passwords In a message in ET 874, Brad Wilmot writes: > People are always asking for them. When bootleg tv was running there > was a reason to get people to go to the site for the pass word. I see no > Brad, Actually, although people are free to share these passwords, DGM would still like to entice people to come to their Web site (many brick and mortar buyers are not familiar with the Web site), and perhaps join the associated mailing lists, when they go to the page with the passwords. That's why when I provide people with the passwords I always point them to the Web page they can get them at. Hope that explains the logic. BTW, we have this info at ET Web as well, since, as you correctly point out, a lot of people ask about them. Dan DGM/ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 02:12:42 -0400 From: "Guertin Pierre" Subject: AB exit, TL intro I keep reading in ET that Adrian Belew may be leaving Crimso. His voice is not always as good as it used to be. I am also reading that Tony Levin may be coming back to Crimso. I saw TL in Montreal during his Waters of Eden tour and during the show he actually sang a Crimso number and not badly at that. In the California Guitar Trio With Tony Levin Monday Night In San Francisco CD, we can hear him humorously signing Elephant Talk. So, who knows, maybe TL will be Crimso's new lead singer slash bass man just like in the old pre-1980's Crimsos. That a flash-back. All Fripp needs now is a lyricist. Maybe AB can contribute lyrics only and not actually play in the groupe. All this is only speculation; I'm actually against the whole notion of AB leaving Crimso. His guitar playing is a major ellement of Crimso's music and is a fine match to Fripp's style. That would be a major loss. Pierre Guertin (still waiting for the latest Club release) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 03:31:44 -0400 (EDT) From: david craig Subject: Live in Mexico City :-( So here we are. There was much complaining and qvetching - most of it justified - about KCTV's obnoxious (and manifestly futile) attempts to prevent people from copying the Live in Mexico City download -- otherwise an outstanding gesture. Many couldn't download it, many couldn't get the *!@#**%! WIMP licensing to work right. Macintosh users were SOL. (etc.) I was one of those who did (eventually) manage to beat the thing into submission. But I knew it'd never last. I had to copy my stuff over to another drive recently. To my complete lack of surprise, my Live in Mexico City .wma is now so much digital garbage -- it won't play any more because the WIMP doesn't believe that it was correctly licensed. Now that KCTV is dead, I expect that's the end of it; it's gone. (If someone knows how I can resurrect it, I would be most grateful.) It would seem that this is how Microsoft (think XP, if you read the trades) and, apparently, most larger record companies would like the world to be: it's not yours, it's theirs. You only paid for the occasional (and randomly temporary) "privilege" of access. And even if you've paid for it or otherwise followed the rules, it's just as well (for them) if you have to keep on paying for it, or if it just plain expires. Poof! Oops. Oh, well. Too bad for you, eh? Ain't the future grand? David Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 16:22:39 -0500 From: Tom Bolstad Subject: Yat-Kha tour & 'best audience' query On the assumption that many King Crimson ethusiasts will be interested in a band that plays intricate music ranging from delicate to overpowering, from dark to joyous, with a wide tonal palette drawn from a huge array of cultural influences, and who do so with authority and passion, I want to encourage everyone who can to check out Yat-Kha's current US tour. I'd wanted to see this band ever since I saw Huun-Huur-Tu, whose performance Robert Fripp mentioned enthusiastically in his DGM diary many months ago, and whom Yat-Kha founding member Albert Kuvezin had been with in the 90's. I saw Yat-Kha last night, performing their soundtrack to a 1928 silent film, Storm Over Asia. The film is a visual feast, an amazing epic that has been restored to its original length (both the British & Soviet governments had heavily censored the only versions available in the last 50 years.) More violent than I usually go for, but I loved it. Their music merged with the film to an exent matched only by the Godfrey Reggio/Philip Glass masterpiece, Koyaanisqatsi. Another film parallel that comes to mind is Forbidden Planet, in this sense: the line between soundtrack and sound effects disappeared. Fans of Adrian Belew's menagerie of seagulls, elephants, rhinos and big electric cats will be delighted by the way that Yat-Kha integrates the film's dogs, cat, cows etc. into the music, with impossibly perfect sync. Yat-Kha's tour dates: http://www.yat-kha.com/html/when/USA_2001.php Tour dates specifically for the film soundtrack performances: http://www.yat-kha.com/html/news/stormoverasia.htm Info about the film: http://www.realityfilm.co.uk/ Yat-Kha actually did two shows here in Minneapolis: I'm told the Thursday night show was more in the rock/punk/electronica realm; the Friday night show was the soundtrack performance. I chose to go to the Friday night show because the film was functioning as the 'opening act' for the Reptile Palace Orchestra. The Reptile Palace Orchestra is another band that I've long wanted an excuse to post to ET about, for they too play 'intricate music ranging from delicate to overpowering, dark to joyous, with a wide tonal palette drawn from a huge array of cultural influences...' In the mid-90's the RPO actually ended KC's 25-year run as my favorite band (heresy, I know, though the double-duo lineup has now made the pointless question of 'my favorite band' too close to call.) Unfortunately, in listening to the Reptiles on recordings something essential is lost, even more so than with KC, so when you rush out to buy all the RPO's CDs & tapes you'll need to understand that these provide only a hint of the live experience. Anyway, Yat-Kha was every bit the equal of the Reptiles last night. Performing a continuous soundtrack to a 2 1/2 hour movie, live, presents incredible challenges which they surpassed with ease. (I say 'continuous' though that's not *quite* literal; there was an intermission.) More than anything else, I was reminded of the first time I saw the Art Ensemble of Chicago, in '79 or '80. I saw them because the woman at the record store where I was buying tickets for various concerts on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday of a particular week asked, ''But don't you want a ticket for the Art Ensemble of Chicago on Wednesday night too?'' I replied, ''Who? I've never heard of them.'' With assurance and a very matter-of-fact tone she said, ''Oh, you'll love them.'' So I went, having no idea what to expect. They took the tiny stage, snaking their way through a maze consisting of an enormous number of instruments, then played continuously for several hours. No identifiable beginnings or endings of songs, just an ever-changing fabric of sound. No member of the band ever spoke a word, and the audience too was virtually silent; seemingly everyone there was giving them their undivided, astonished attention. Without question, it was the best audience I've ever been in, and we were well rewarded: the evening stands out as one of the 3 or 4 most transcendent musical experiences of my life. And that is why I'm bringing it up: with the many discussions ET has seen on the responsibilites of 'audients', I feel the ET community could have a great time with a thread (if there already has been a thread on this, I apologise; there've been a few periods in the last 6 years when I missed ET for months at a time) on the question 'What's the best audience you've ever been a part of?' ------------------------------ Date: 29 Sep 2001 22:24:23 -0000 From: "Brian Reynolds" Subject: Soundscape HELP Hi, I went and saw TOOL in Columbus Sept. 14. Before TOOL went on, they played a song that a friend of mine recognized as sounding very SOUNDSCAPEish. Does anybody have any idea if TOOL intro their show with a Fripp Soundscape? Perhaps they did this also when KC was on tour with them. I really liked that track and have since tried to find the song. What was the song? THANKS! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 11:58:17 +0200 From: "L.Pohl" Subject: nothing SO special Hi there, Just another musician (you know these guys producing strange noises from somewhere in front of you and somehow seeming to enjoy all this crap by having no money anyhow when you ask them)writing from germany. Great site here,I read parts of it for years as a great fan of most crimsoid (crimsoesk) productions for years. I felt an urge to write after this gig we had with our band,LOOM yesterday.Funny thing is,approx.30 percent of the people went off after we joined into our improv. set after the "sung set".(Although the performed improv seemed good and deep to me...) Anyone here who can explain the phenomen?What does the audience need this singing for?Why can some people not understand the talk of instruments? (By the way.... they don't understand so much of the singers "message" at an usual live-gig,but seem to like it much more....) I would be glad if someone joined in this theme and talked with me about it... e-mail: Yours Alex@LOOM P.S.Does somebody know if TOOL and KC will tour parts of germany? P.P.S.Please excuse the bad english...we were forced to learn russian where I come from..... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 17:06:20 EDT From: Johnguti at aol dot com Subject: I talk to the wind To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Hello, I am very much interested in knowing how to get "I talk to the wind" chords for easy guitar. This is for personal satisfaction only. I love that song so much. Thank you very much. Any help will be appreciated. Regards, Johnny [ Check out http://www.elephant-talk.com/tabs/italk.htm -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 23:12:42 -0400 From: "Chris Deming" Subject: Stephen King's Crimson King There has been a satanic character named the Crimson King mentioned briefly in some of Stephen King's recent books. In his latest: "Black House", on which he collaborated with Peter Straub, there's a passage that contains the name of King Crimson's first album - almost: (pg 441) "Yes. His physical being is pent in a cell at the top of the Tower, but he has another manifestation, every bit as real, and this lives in Can-tah Abbalah -- the Court of the Crimson King." I think its just a coincidence, though - I don't think there was a conscious effort to refer to the album. If there was a Crimson King, it would be reasonable to assume that he would have a court... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 18:01:49 +0200 From: Dario Tortora Subject: BPMM extra tracks Fellow krimson-friends, is there any japanese member of this list who owns the new BPMM CD (very weird stuff, recommended if you're into projeKCt)? On the BPMM web site are listed two extra tracks - Multi Vibration, Danpen(Hosoi Tatejima Moyou No Suite Wo Kita Otoko) - that appear only on the japanese version of the CD. I'd *love* to have those tracks; is there anybody willing to encode them in MP3 and send them to me? Eventually I can trade some rare Fripp collaborations. Dario -- - Mac OS for productivity. UNIX for stability. Palm OS for mobility. Windows for solitaire. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 18:40:01 EDT From: AlfredDodson at aol dot com Subject: Concerning Downloads, Re: MPEGging To All Parties involved: There are NO downloadable Collector's Clubs available. My last post was wrong in that aspect. I would not dare violate the agreement given in order to join the CC. Thanks for noticing my little mistake. aKd ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 19:54:06 -0400 From: jbenfiel at vt dot edu Subject: King Crimson Progrock Heaven Playlist An apology to those who tried to tune in and the link was down. Thanks for all of the requests and thanks to SCHRO for his support! I'd like to post the setlist, in case anyone was interested: I Talk to The Wind(s) a) GGF/ Judy Dyble version (Young Person's Guide) b) Chesterfield 1969 (oops, Mr. Fripp) c) studio coda (flute solo) d) OPUS 3 house version e) Camper Von Beethoven (w/ Eugene Chadbourne) version In The Wake of Poseidon CAT FOOD (LP) CIRKUS Formentera Lady/ Sailor's Tale Lark's Tongues in Aspic Parts 1-4 Part1: Studio version/ Glasgow 73 Part2: USA version (LP) Part3: Studio Version (LP) Part4: Heavy Construkction Fracture (Concertgebow 1973) Matte Kudasai (LP with Fripp synth solo) Neurotica (from CIRKUS) 3 of a Perfect Pair (Acoustic- Heavy ConstruKction) BBOOM/ THRAK (studio/ Thrakattak) Radio 1 Radio 2 Inner Garden FraKctured (Heavy ConstuKction) Breathless (R. Fripp LP with Tony Levin) Starless (Central Park 07-04-74) Cage (from VROOOM ep) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 12:04:56 +0100 From: "Keith Wright" Subject: robert unplugged Has anyone got a copy of robert fripp unplugged for sale loan or for copy.E-mail me personally as above.Thanks ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #875 ********************************