Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #874 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 874 Friday, 28 September 2001 Today's Topics: K.C. and Genocide Mpegging Present Passwords Re: soundscapes at wtc Ken burns jazz Re: Soundscapes at wtc Re: Crimson reunion Are you influenced by King Crimson? Support the Red Cross Collector Club CDs on Ebay Re: Hidden Frippish phrase? Adrian Quit??? Trey Gunn vs Tony Levin Re: 5 Piece Crimson Ghost Dance by Giles/Muir/Cunningham on EBay Re: Craig's comments in ET #873 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 01:08:22 -0400 From: "Smiths" Subject: K.C. and Genocide I've listened to some seriously depressing music it the past week, a lot of it on the local classical station. One piece that stands out is Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings. King Crimson is also tailor made for the contemplation of the senseless slaughter of thousands of people. I think we can all hear such tunes as Schizoid Man, Epitaph, Pictures of a City, In the Wake of Poseidon, One More Red Nightmare, Starless, People, Cage, Thrak, and particularly Coda: I Have a Dream in a very haunting and evoKcative light now. Belew's re-invocation of the World Trade in Coda is now permanently etched into my brain, indelible as the images of those towers and all the people within being reduced to rubble. It is very disturbing, but I find some solace and catharsis in how well Crimson represents the madness an inhumanity that exists in mankind. Thanks, guys for playing as it is. Matthew K. Smith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 17:23:55 EDT From: AlfredDodson at aol dot com Subject: Mpegging Hello again, If anybody has video footage that is unavailable currently of King Crimson (i.e. music videos, live on "Fridays" or "Conan O'brien") and has the capability of turning it into a computer MPEG file get the IMESH file sharing program turn the video into MPEG and make it available for some of us to download. I have several Collector's Club songs up on IMESH available for download. aKd ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 08:53:14 -0700 From: "CortnDeb" Subject: Present A recommendation to fellow Crimheads everywhere... Nuovo Metal still being somewhere over the horizon, here's a new CD which may fill the void until it's release. It's by the Belgian band Present and is called "High Infidelity". Here's Present's website with soundfiles... http://www.totalzoo.com/present/ Present titles should be available through Wayside Music / Cuneiform Records in the US. Cort Snyder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 13:39:35 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Passwords Toby, feel free to not publish this if you beleive there is a reason to keep these secret. If not, here they are. Heavy Construkction: rome Earthworks Sound Of Surprise: Discipline People are always asking for them. When bootleg tv was running there was a reason to get people to go to the site for the pass word. I see no reason why these passwords shouldn't just be included in the liner notes now. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 10:40:58 -0700 From: "Joey Aguilera" Subject: Re: soundscapes at wtc > >I am sure that I had a cd of soundscapes that was >recorded at the World >Trade Center, but I don't remember which one, and >haven't been able to find >it. Have I mis-remembered this? Which CD would this >be? I am sure that one >of the ET trainspotters will help me out :-) I don't believe this was an official release but I could be wrong. I have one of the performances in bootleg format. Joey Aguilera http://www.indiscipline.net/fripp/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 13:45:33 -0400 From: Barry Stock Subject: Ken burns jazz I second the opinions on this one about the incredibly conservative position Marsalis takes towards the music called Jazz. Dolphy, not a mention. Bill Evans, well he got his 3 seconds, didn't he, that scoundrel. The list is long: white, black, brown, yellow, red, acoustic, electric. They didn't make the cut. Problem is, they didn't even make the tryouts. I actually suggest people avoid watching this documentary. Do not give it credibility. It is NOT good. People (often Marsalis) talk over the music continuously, and it represents the views of a very small, ultra-conservative faction within the jazz community. I checked the accompanying book from the library to have a peek, and the same orthodox party line holds throughout. Remember, It's not "Ken Burns' Jazz," it's Ken burns Jazz... Cheers to all, hoping you are safe and well. -bs ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 14:29:53 -0400 From: Warren Melnick Subject: Re: Soundscapes at wtc >Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:46:52 -0400 >From: "Pete Gilbert" >Subject: soundscapes at wtc >Robert never did soundscapes at wtc. They were done at the World Financial >Center. The World Financial Center is across West Street via a footbridge from the old WTC complex. The next time they show the helicopter fly-by footage, look for a beautiful glass building with an atrium that is curved on top (like an upside-down "U") just west of (toward the river from) the wreckage. That is where Robert performed. If you look at this link: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/gallery/aerial/content2.html You can see a small building on the upper right with rounded top, that is the World Financial Center. The larger roof, toward the river, covers the atrium where RF played. Warren ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 14:39:37 -0400 From: hwhitman at scte dot org (Howard B. Whitman) Subject: Re: Crimson reunion If you want to hear an example of what a Hackett-led Crimson might sound like, check out his "Tokyo Tapes" CD, which features live versions of early KC classics "The Court of the Crimson King" and "I Talk to the Wind" by an all-star band including original KC member Ian McDonald, as well as "Red"-era member John Wetton. It's an added treat to hear Wetton's renditions of songs originally recorded with Greg Lake as vocalist. I agree with Fripp's recommendation of Hackett as a suitable guitarist for the band--they play in similar styles, and SH certainly offers the creativity, passion and skill necessary to pull it off. In the piece I quoted, Hackett mentions that he would possibly be one of numerous guest guitarists that might play at the proposed Crimson concert. Any thoughts out there of who else might sit in? Gary Moore comes to mind for me--he turned in a credible performance on "20th Century Schizoid Man" and "In the Court..." on the Greg Lake solo live King Biscuit CD. Steve Howe seems open to guest artist appearances--any suggestions for songs on which he'd (or other guests) be appropriate? Later friends, Howard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 14:47:28 -0400 From: Johnny Romano Subject: Are you influenced by King Crimson? There's an mp3.com station dedicated to artists who have audible king crimson influence in their music. If you wish to have your music included, click the link at the top of the page that reads "email station owner". He's looking for other acts to add on to the page, so as long as it doesn't suck, then most likely, you'll be added. http://mp3.com/stations/kingcrimson mike http://duophone.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 13:52:04 -0500 From: "Ghosty" Subject: Support the Red Cross Hello all, We are happy to announce that 100% of our proceeds - plus a share of Cafepress.com's proceeds - from all radio Ghosty t-shirts and other swag will go directly to the Red Cross. To peruse these fine products, please follow the link below. http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=radioghosty Thomas -- Radio Ghosty - The Best Mix of Progressive Rock and Electronic Music over the Internet 56K or Above - http://internet-radio.tripod.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 22:10:26 -0400 From: Jim and Mariann Lucas Subject: Collector Club CDs on Ebay Check out these three Collector Club CDs on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1466375931 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1466384267 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1466380316 Good Luck, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 22:26:47 -0400 From: Manuel Fernandez Subject: Re: Hidden Frippish phrase? Thus spake vigor mortis >playing Soda Stereo[1]'s "Entre Canibales"... i was rather shocked >when i noticed that the first five seconds of the track sounded like >an echo of "Starless". Don't be too shocked, G. Cerati (Soda's ex-leader) has said in the past that one of his favourite bands is King Crimson. He mentioned ITCOTCK especifically. Good taste! I'd argue their best album to be "sueno stereo", but that's my assho... I mean, opinion. ;-) Manuel. -- "Be normal and people will acept you. Be deranged and they will make you their leader". -Christopher Titus. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:11:29 EDT From: Oliass at cs dot com Subject: Adrian Quit??? Does anyone know what this is about? It's from the guestbook and it's posted on the KC news headline's-Roy And this appropriate observation was found in the guestbook: > "... Adrian has decided not to proceed with King Crimson ... > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:47:50 -0600 From: "Prog Frog" Subject: Trey Gunn vs Tony Levin If Tony Levin actually does come back to Crimson, I would doubt that Trey Gunn would be obscured by him at all. The reason is mainly the band's abilities to work as a tight unit and not get one each other's playing...take Belew and Fripp or Mastelotto and Bruford, for instance....they all worked like a charm together, and I somehow think that by now Tony Levin and Trey Gunn would probably be able to work out some really cool stuff! Marcelo Silveyra Progfreaks.com Editor-In-Chief ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:43:01 -0500 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: Re: 5 Piece Crimson James L. Hines wrote: "I don't think this has been talked about yet, but I'm wanting to know everyone's thoughts on what KC will sound like when Levin returns to the group. (in case you weren't paying attention, when KC was in LA, T-Lev had brekfast with them one day and they told him he's still the "5th Member")." I hope not to bum anyone out, but my take on Levin being the 5th member is that its more a way of showing respect and friendship than an actual real possibility in the near future. Unlike many past alumni who maybe haven't parted in the friendliest manner, Levin basically ended up out of the band mostly due to his (at the time) busy schedule, in particular a Seal tour that unfortunately fizzled if I remember correctly. Now I would hope that we can "maybe" officially see Peter Gabriel finally release his new solo album in the next 6 months to a year so I'm sure Tony will definitely be a part of a massive world tour probably some time in 2002 and that also will probably make his participation in KC difficult. Though I'm sure no one who loves King Crimson would have anything negative ever to say about Levin, I think the band probably works best as a 4 piece. It also probably works best with young guys who have the band as a top priority in their professional lives. But hey, who knows? Anything's possible and I think the remaining members of KC want to be sure Tony knows the door and their friendship is still open for the future... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 17:48:06 +0100 From: "Cameron Devlin" Subject: Ghost Dance by Giles/Muir/Cunningham on EBay Currently on EBay is the Giles/Muir/Cunningham CD "Ghost Dance". For those of you unfamiliar with this item it unites two ex-Crimson drummers: Michael Giles & Jamie Muir. It's very very good. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1467567516 Cameron ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 18:30:55 EDT From: JohnWylam at aol dot com Subject: Re: Craig's comments in ET #873 Hi, Folks -- Craig brings up the addition of Albert Ayler to the list of musicians Ken Burns ought to have covered, but didn't. I agree; imagine what music history might've been like had he lived. Since we must deal with history as we have it, however, it becomes all the sadder that other musicians who took up Ayler's influence have not been more widely heard. The general connection to KC is probably readily apparent. Anyone who ever heard any of the "unscripted" pieces from the seventies, for ex., might well have thought about Ayler, though the latter's high-energy-from-the-outset approach (as in *Bells*) differs in construKctive terms from some of KC's improvisations from that time, tho the intelligence and sense of process in both instances makes me think of them as similar. One might also think about early Ovary Lodge, in particular that first magnificent album Keith Tippett recorded with Roy Babbington and the incredible Frank Perry (playing perhaps the largest percussion set in history - something approaching 600 pieces in all, according to *Melody Maker,* at any rate). The use of silence, the use of approachable space. Sure, genre labels are by definition constricting, often maddening, and, on a number of levels, purposeless. And yet....without doubt, KC was and remains one of those rare groups that have succeeded in amalgamating a number of different disciplines (sic), with all due and proper respect for each, and creating out of those influences a cohesion -- balanced on the blade of a sword, granted, but balancing nevertheless, at least for a time. Craig's Miles reference is also quite useful -- one of my litmus tests as a listener is musicianship; Ian Anderson, interviewed by MTV a very long time ago now, explained "progressive rock" as a form in which musicians were expected, quite simply, to play their instruments with as high a degree of ability as possible. Personally, I'd expand that definition to describe what I like about the majority of music I prefer ("guilty pleasures" notwithstanding, and I've got my share, too), and let it go at that. Miles had a point, but had he more exposure to what else was happening in music around him, he might've softened his position. What would it have been like to hear that trumpet in a KC improv? We can only wonder. But I honestly think bands like KC conflate Miles' view, in all honesty. In fact, KC is one of those groups that complicate a great many opinions about music in general. And this, to my mind, is what made and continues to make King Crimson valuable in cultural terms. A student of mine asked me yesterday what music I listen to. I mentioned KC. "Oh, you like that prog stuff," he said. "When you come in for your scheduled conference at mid-term, don't be surprised if that's what you hear on the stereo." I won't be surprised a bit, myself. All Best, Folks. John Wylam ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #874 ********************************