E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 869 Sunday August 19, 2001 Today's Topics: NEWS: ET Anniversay Issue NEWS: It Was Twenty Years Ago Today... NEWS: Happy 10th Anniversary ET!! NEWS: Crimson related releases GIG BIZ: King Crimson playing in Brazil for thefirst time GIG BIZ: Setlist for West Palm, FL 2001 GIG BIZ: More King Crimson Tour Dates? GIG BIZ: KING CRIMSON IN PERU trey gunn's diary 8/11 impossible recording machine Jessie & Jimi the tool tour, the next album, and ken burns' jazz Jessie & Jimi Nuovo Metal Looking for CD and CD singles Heavy ContruKction Elephant Talk #868 Jessie & Jimi =?iso-8859-1?Q?King_Crimson_In_Per=FA?= TOOL & KC comparisons STOP! New Standard Tuning more geezers + Elephant Tape Nouveau Metal - Nuovo Metal - New Metal Album Titles (Andrew Studer), Re: August 5th Review (Miguel Farah F) GIG REVIEW: Portland> In the TOOLSHED GIG REVIEW: Gig reviews KC/TOOL 8/10 and 8/13 GIG REVIEW: Wiltern Theatre - 13th August 2001 GIG REVIEW: Berkeley, Aug 11 show GIG REVIEW: Tool/KCrim show Aug. 15, 2001 GIG REVIEW: GIG REVIEWS: From the ears of the Toolmen GIG REVIEW: you can lead a horse to water... GIG REVIEW: King Crimson in Mexico City aug17 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is temporarily being produced using Cheetah PRO Mailing Systems (c) Black Cat Software Factory (info at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Saturday, 11 Aug 2001 22:33:31 From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk (Toby Howard) Subject: NEWS: ET Anniversary Issue Hello everyone. This is a rather special edition of ET. We're ten years old today. We started out as "Discipline" on 19 August 1981, with 24 subscribers. A while later, Robert Fripp suggested to me that I find a more individual name for the newsletter, so we became "Elephant Talk". Today, and 22,196 posts later (yes, I counted them), we have 7856 readers, all around the world. I hope we'll continue for many more years. And I want to especially thank Mike Dickson (distribution) and Dan Kirkdorffer (ET Webmaster) for all their efforts. It's a pleasure to work with them, and I think we make a jolly good team. Anyway, enough from me. On with the show, as usual... Cheers Toby ET Moderator ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 16 Aug 2001 18:32:24 From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: NEWS: It Was Twenty Years Ago Today... ...well, sort of. It was 28th May 1996, to be exact, the day I approached Toby and offered to take on the management of ET's distribution and administration. Five years and five thousand lines of Carefully Crafted Code (tm) later it still seems like we have a working system in place. And maybe I'm the most amazed at all of this! All your subscriptions and admin requsts run through my (beleagured) home PC as does every single issue of ET sent out. Thanks must go to Toby for putting up with all of this (and me) for the last decade, and to Dan for his magnanimous HTML wizardy. I'm still honoured to be a part of this happy band, and even happier to be a small cog in the mechanics of your greater happiness that is King Crimson. Happy birthday, ET. Mike Dickson Elephant Talk Administration and Distribution ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 18 Aug 2001 16:53:39 From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: Happy 10th Anniversary ET!! Today ET turns 10! Wow!! I am sure Toby never expected this newsletter, and all that has come since, to have lasted this long and through 869 issues (so far). I believe my personal ET odyssey started at issue 175 in March 1995, memorable for a transcript of a Compuserve chat with Robert Fripp. The newsletter had already found its present name (many will recall is started out as "Discipline"), and I spent many a day reading through all the past issues (something quite impossible to do for ET newbies today!) Before I really understood what I was getting myself into, I was helping Toby revamp the ET Web site, and filling in for him on his first holiday away from his moderating tasks. And now it is well over 6 years later, and we're still at it, but not without a lot of help along the way, so I want to acknowledge the efforts of all those people that have contributed to the Web site, with interviews, reviews and articles, and in particular, those folks who make it possible for me to keep doing this, even while the site gets bigger and more difficult to maintain: Steven Sthole, for doing such a great job maintaining the ET FAQ, Kathy Ottersten, our intrepid GigMistress, Mike Stok, for his hugely helpful ET Archives, and Jeff Duke and his team, for their untiring efforts with Krimson News, and allowing me to integrate so much of it into ET Web. Thanks also go to those that have enhanced the site with complimentary sites to fill in the gaps at ET Web, including Stephane Alexandre's EWalk, Jeff Weinberger's (now dormant) ETalk, Henry Andrews' KC Alumni Discography Project and Class Kazzer's Exposure pages, and many more. This community just continues to grow and amaze me. I'd also be remiss if I didn't acknowledge the boys in the band who have been so cooperative and helped give ET a purpose by continuing to make new music. When this thing started in 1991 nobody could know how active and relevant Robert Fripp and King Crimson would again become. Even as I write thing KC is wrapping up yet another tour and preparing for a new recording - life is good! Finally, massive gratitude to Mike and Toby for making this something I still enjoy being a part of. There have been times when I have considered stepping aside and moving on to other things, but Mike's special brand of Scottish humor keeps me energized, and Toby has maintained inspired dedication to ET through good times and bad. Thanks guys - I'll be raising my glass to toast you both today. Let's keep this sucker going for many more moons! Cheers! Dan ET Webmaster ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 17 Aug 2001 23:15:47 From: artshop at artist-shop dot com (Gary Davis) Subject: NEWS: Crimson related releases Hi, folks: The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . Here are some excerpts of interest to Crimson fans. Coming soon from Papabear Records BPM&M/XtraKcts & ArtifaKcts The Music is by BPM&M: King Crimson drummer Pat Mastelotto, and Bill Munyon- Percussive Engineers and Sample Manglers! Also featured: the voice and guitar of Robert Fripp, low frequency groove reinforcements of Tony Levin, Virtuoso Warr guitar musicality by Trey Gunn, Turkish synthesizer mastery from Cenk Eroglu, cuttings and snippets of vocals from Adrian Belew and David Byrne, tabla acupuncture lesson from Aloke Dutta. soundbite - California Guitar Trio with Tony Levin & Pat Mastelotto/Live at the Key Club A unique lineup; the acoustic guitars of the California Guitar Trio, augmented by Crimson drummer Pat Mastelotto and the bass and Stick of Tony Levin. The group rehearsed and toured in early 2001. The high point of that tour was the Feb. 3 show at the Key Club on Sunset Strip in Hollywood. It was one of those shows where everything came together and some songs were better than ever. Fortunately we were taping to multi track, and this 70 minute CD is the result. Songs on the CD include: Yes's Heart of the Sunrise, Mahavishnu's Dance of Maya, Zundoko Bushi (with excerpts of 21st Century Schizoid Man), The Shadows' Apache, King Crimson's Discipline, Misirlou, Caravan, and many more, including some new compositions by the group. soundbite - >From our forthcoming imports page . RX & JOHN WETTON-LIVE IN LONDON Japanese only All Code/NTSC DVD. 8 tracks in all, 7 of which recorded in 'Live In London'. Tracks, 'Opening', 'Get It! Get It!', 'Shining Crazy Man', 'Mystery From Greenman', 'Arcadia (w/John Wetton)', 'Heat Of The Moment (w/John Wetton)', 'Sole Survivor (w/John Wetton)' + the video to 'Aracadia (w/John Wetton)'. Packaged in a regular size jewelcase. And from our newly released imports page GILES, GILES & FRIPP-CHEERFUL INSANITY OF... Japanese digitally remastered reissue of British prog-rock album originally issued on Fontana in 1968. Packaged in a limited edition miniature LP sleeve. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC!!! ************************************************************** Artist Shop Radio Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 14 Aug 2001 17:57:30 From: Robert Fripp Subject: GIG BIZ: King Crimson playing in Brazil for thefirst time Dear Team, One of the occasional but recurrent features of Crimson life (since 1969) is of shows being advertised that are not going to take place. This is usually in areas where there is very little, or no, direct Crimson presence. Paulo posted this to ET833: Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:51:51 -0300 From: Paulo H Leocadio Subject: King Crimson playing in Brazil for thefirst time Geez! Local newspaper in Sao Paulo noticed today KC september dates in the country, do not now yet the cities but my hometown (Sao Paulo) will be for sure included! I am living inside a KC dream in the last months: seeing them live in Hartford last november, tickets already bought for the two Mexico City dates in August and now this!!!!!! I wonder how much my handshake with Adrian in Hartford telling him that I traveld all the way from Sao Paulo just to see them counted for this!!! I AM ANXIUOS!!!! This is a hell of a millenium.>>> The key word is "dream": King Crimson are not playing any dates in Central or South America, to my certain knowledge, other than the 3 nights in Mexico City of August 17/18/19. I make no comment as to the announcement in the Brazilian press. Crimson are currently scheduled to be in Nashville for writing rehearsals during September, in preparation for upcoming recording and touring. Robert Fripp, VRHL. ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 14 Aug 2001 19:51:37 From: KMaher at med dot miami dot edu (Maher, Kevin) Subject: GIG BIZ: Setlist for West Palm, FL 2001 Howdy all, Does anyone know where I can find a setlist for the recent show in West Palm Beach, FL. The show was great and the first I've seen in about 10 years. I need some catchin' up... Kevin Maher ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 15 Aug 2001 12:21:26 From: adkind at wvnvm dot wvnet dot edu (David Adkins) Subject: GIG BIZ: More King Crimson Tour Dates? Hey ET!! Will there be more King Crimson tour dates after Mexico City. I am particularly interested in Ohio. I missed Cincinnati and was hoping there would be more tour dates this fall and/or winter. Thanks!! ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 16 Aug 2001 00:14:39 From: apalacios at essalud dot sld dot pe (Alfonso Palacios King Kee) Subject: GIG BIZ: KING CRIMSON IN PERU Hello, i'm a peruvian fan of supergroup KING CRIMSON. I know that Kc will be play in Southamerica. I would like to know if Kc will come to play in Peru. In my country are a lot of fans of King Crimson. Thanks Alfonso Palacios K. [ See Robert's message -- Mike ] ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 14 Aug 2001 12:03:53 From: nicroozeboom at hotmail dot com (Nic Roozeboom) Subject: trey gunn's diary 8/11 http://www.treygunn.com/word/diaries/2001-0811.html In his diary, Trey mentions something 'hovering' over the stage during Deception of the Thrush. >From having attended this show, I have another theory as to what it might have been: - an angel - a thrush :-) It might as well have been the first. During his solo, Trey mentions, it was lingering somewhere over his shoulder. This solo was so breathtakingly beautiful, imbued with a sadness and grace, that words cannot describe. I can say it touched me profoundly. Nic ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 14 Aug 2001 14:16:41 From: Siren667 at aol dot com Subject: impossible recording machine this is an open letter to all fans of king crimson. my name is matt walker, i have been the drummer for such bans as filter and the smashing pumpkins. i now have a project called the impossible recording machine , and being a long time fan of king crimson, i'd like to invite all crimson fans to our web site to have a look, under the assumption there would be a compatible interest. thanks in advance for your time...... mw www.impossiblerecordingmachine.com ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 14 Aug 2001 18:39:54 From: vdorje at ev1 dot net (Craig) Subject: Jessie & Jimi >All the recent posts here about Jimi Hendrix have me thinking that >someone probably knows the answer to a question I've had since seeing >The Tony Levin Band last year. They did a smoking Hendrix cover on which >Jessie Gress went absolutely nuts. When Tony introduced the song, he >said we find something recognizable in it, which was true because, well >into the jam, it morphed for a short time into Red. Just stunning. >Anyway, the question: I believe the song was introduced as "Sitting On >the Porch" or something like that. It was vaguely familiar, and I think >it may have been on Jimi's "Nine to Universe" album that I haven't seen >or heard in years (and is apparently not available on disc). Does anyone >know what this song was, and where I can find the Hendrix version? There is *no* song on "Nine to Universe" called "Sitting On the Porch" or anything remotely similar. Must be a different LP............. Send Tony Levin an email query at Papa Bear. Perhaps he can help you out. ~Craig ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 14 Aug 2001 17:42:42 From: mikestack1677 at yahoo dot com (Michael Stack) Subject: the tool tour, the next album, and ken burns' jazz hello folks. Long time no talk, I haven't been here in a while (been lurking for at least a year now, after my last spell of activity...), but being part of the recent cutbacks in the telecommunications industry, I'm now one software engineer with a lot of free time. So, without further ado, on to our favorite topics... Re: the Tool tour-- I'm a longtime KC fan and Tool admirer who finally went over the edge and bought the most recent Tool album, it's my first by them, but I've heard several others, I think the band is bloody fabulous. I just wish the tour came out here. Overall, having read reviews in several locations, it sounds like a lot of the Tool fans who were actually there to listen to the music (rather than soak up the atmosphere of being at a concert and all that goes alogn with it) thought well enough of KC. IMHO this is good, KC needs a younger, wider audience, especially if they're going to continue on-- let's face it, their audience is not getting any younger, and quite honestly, I think twice as many people saw them in '95 as did in '00 here in CT. BTW, does anyone think the HORDE festival all those years back helped out KC at all? Belew said they've noticed younger folks in the audience, I wonder if that contributed. I know speaking personally (I'm 23), I've tried and tried to push KC to a number of people who I went to high school/college with, and discovered that remarkably, there were a bunch who liked it if they heard it, and they had extremely diverse tastes, though so do we as Crimso fans. Next topic, the new album-- has it actually been recorded yet? It seems like the band is performing large chunks of it live, which would lead to believe it has been, unless RF and company are regressing to the Fripp-Wetton-Cross-Bruford style of breaking in songs live. Still, I monitor RF's diary sporatically and don't remember much recording in there... Final point, I noted that Ken Burns' Jazz has gotten some talk recently, and was recommended as a good introduction for novices. I will offer this one piece-- many jazz fans, myself included, think that no only was Ken Burns' Jazz rather limited in what it covered, but also that it would not necessarily appeal to people who are not fans of jazz. Ken Burns spent an inordinate amount of time on a handful of artists (most prominently Louis Armstrong and Duke Ellington, both of whom I love, BTW...) and on swing music. There is a lot more to jazz than swing, but my opinion is that swing is when jazz was at its most popular and commercial, and this was reflected heavily by Mr. Burns. Also note that the voice of Wynton Marsalis is far more dominant than many people would have liked it to be, given that I am not alone in feeling that Marsalis has done more to prevent the progress of jazz than any other musician. I've also heard accusations ranging from racism on down on Ken Burns' Jazz, I will decline to comment much on that, rather I would state that Ken Burns did not IMHO accurately portray the importance of several artists. While Armstrong and Ellington were essential to jazz, so was Charlie Parker, who received probably 1/10th the airtime of either of those two, so was Ornette COleman, who got about five minutes, and for that matter, fusion, the starting point for many prog-rock fans in jazz, got about seven minutes. My opinions anyway, sorry for mild topical deviation here and there.... mike Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 14 Aug 2001 18:33:40 From: ceejayhey at pond dot net (Chris Anderson) Subject: Jessie & Jimi George: Yes, "Jam Back At The House" was from Woodstock 2 the one with the little baby banging on the bass drum. On that record there aren't very many good cuts, but in the early 70's "Jam Back At The House" was a strong reason to purchase it. It can now be found on Jimi Hendrix : Woodstock CD and yes that was "Red" in the middle. christopher anderson ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 14 Aug 2001 23:47:04 From: h2omanri at home dot com (David R. Suman) Subject: Nuovo Metal Personally, I think the term "Nuovo Metal" makes a lot of sense at this juncture. The current double-duo incarnation of King Crimson has fairly quickly assembled a repertoire of high impact new material. The jarring 2 against 3 rhythmic counterpunch of ProzaKc Blues that opens TCOL let's everyone know immediately this isn't exactly your Dad's King Crimson any more. Heavy ConstruKction showed that TCOL is a new direction, not an aberration. All of the new material hangs together much more effectively having been refined in the crucible of performance. And through performance the new pieces gain both fluidity and weight. They also move with considerable authority. Combined with P. J. Crook's paintings, the term Nuovo Metal brings to mind the early days of the avant garde art in the 20th century, hinting as it does at the futurist manifesto by its very name even as the P. J. Crook's paintings are somewhat evocative of the early surrealist dreamscapes of de Chirico and Magritte. An old musical genre has been tranfigured into something recognizable, but most unsettling in its not quite familiar new landscape. I get the feeling that Robert Fripp chose this term because of the new frontier he sees ahead for him and his bandmates. In the last few weeks before he retired from actively posting to his public on-line dairy, he noted more than once that he was working on new material and pleased to be doing so. By all accounts I've read of the rehearsals and shows where the new pieces were played into performance shape prior to the Tool expedition, the new material is both intense and articulate. I can't wait to hear them myself. If retiring from a perpetually active on-line diary means Robert can write more music and enjoy performing it for us all, I'll take the music. DRS ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 15 Aug 2001 00:49:19 From: rockisland at arnet dot com dot ar (Ricardo Aranda) Subject: Looking for CD and CD singles Hi you all ET ers: A long time has passed since my last posting. Thanks for all the info and for keeping me updated. I do collect all KC stuff I can, so I tell you I`m looking for some CD singles of the Double Trio era, such as "Dinosaur", "Sex, Sleep..." and "Walking on air". There are also several HDCD, 24 bit, cardboard sleeve remasters missing in my CD collection. Please, those who can help me, send me by private your "got" lists, and in case of trading let me hear what are you looking for. Thank you very much Regards Ricardo from Argentina ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 15 Aug 2001 02:12:47 From: dac at panix dot com (david craig) Subject: Heavy ContruKction > 3. Is there any chance that I could get the movie part > of Heavy ConstruKction to work in Linux? I am using > SuSE 7.1 ... Is asf a proprietary ms format? Yes, it is. DGM is apparently committed to Windows Media Player format. At present, there are only versions of the WIMP available for Windows and Mac OS, as far as I know. (Well, there is an old one for Solaris. . Perhaps someone can beat that into shape.) If there are free/share ware Linux tools that can read the WIMP format, that would be very nice. (Please tell if you find such a thing!) But Microsoft is trying to put RealPlayer and QuickTime out of business, and they'd rather everyone was using their stuff. And, as everyone knows by now, Linux is "Un-American" and is clearly some sort of post-communist plot. Thus, I wouldn't count on a Linux version of WIMP anytime soon. David Craig ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 15 Aug 2001 13:02:18 From: cvsax at unete dot com (Pablo Velasco) Subject: Elephant Talk #868 Is it only me or ET #868 was exceptionally enjoyable? (Mike, how dare = you edit out Josette's shouting) Thanks to all of you posting, specially = the gig reviews. Pablo [ Hey, I might be temporary moderator whilst His Tobyship is holidaying in the USA, but I haven't started editing anyone yet!! -- Mike ] ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 15 Aug 2001 10:51:42 From: Scott dot Reed at Sun dot COM (Scott Reed) Subject: Jessie & Jimi George wrote: "When Tony introduced the song, hesaid we find something recognizable in it, which was true because, wellinto the jam, it morphed for a short time into Red. Just stunning. Anyway, the question: I believe the song was introduced as "Sitting On the Porch" or something like that. It was vaguely familiar, and I think it may have been on Jimi's "Nine to Universe" album" It was actually an excerpt from the song "Freak Parade" from the first Todd Rundgren/Utopia album. Jesse use to be in Todds touring band. -sr ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 15 Aug 2001 13:15:19 From: cpacheco at bsmobile dot com (Carlos Pacheco) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?King_Crimson_In_Per=FA?= Hi folks!!!!!! I' ve listened that Crimson will come to South America to Brasil, Argentina, Venezuela or Chile. So it would be a big mistake if the group don' t come to Peru, the most magical, mystical and ancient country of this part of the world. People is interested in their amazing and powerful music and a lot of fans are waiting for them. We wouldn' t forgive the producers and managers if Mr. Fripp and his guys would be next to us and won' t play their music for peruvian people. What a pity! Here people loves Crimson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Regards Carlos Pacheco Raguz * E-Mail : cpacheco at bsmobile dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 15 Aug 2001 16:29:54 From: steven dot gould at vnsny dot org (Steve Gould) Subject: TOOL & KC comparisons STOP! > there is a great clip of Louis Armstrong (pardon the misquotes)--"now > there are two types of music, good music, and bad music. now good > music you can stomp/move your feet to, now it don't matter what it > sounds like, but that's good music" Ironically - later in the same documentary there is footage of Armstrong mocking Bebop and performers like Parker and Gillespie. Happily though I hear that Fripp has soundscaped during Tools show and the Tool drummer has encored for KC on this mini tour. At least they respect and accept each other ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 15 Aug 2001 22:00:04 From: Oliass at cs dot com Subject: New Standard Tuning Hi everyone, when I went to the KC show in West Palm Beach, I was handed a flyer regarding a weekly gathering of guitarists at all levels who use the new standard tuning. Unfortunately, we lost the flyer sometime between then and the St. Pete show. I think the meetings occur in the West Palm area on Thursdays. If anyone knows anything about this, please email me at: oliass at cs dot com. Thanks in advance!!---Roy ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 15 Aug 2001 21:47:16 From: jonwoodworth at hotmail dot com (Jon Woodworth) Subject: more geezers + Alan T wrote: >I would be very disappointed if this dispute on Geezers continues. We >all share an interest in music of KC irrespective of age. I don't there's any real dispute. But ever since the 'should KC tour with Tool?' discussion died, the newsletter has lacked a certain 'heat'. Anyway, on a different note, does anyone have an mp3 of 'Asbury Park' they'd be willing to share or know where I could find one? I had my friend look on napster, but all he could find under KC were 'Sus-Tayn-Z' and 'X-Chayn-Jiz', which I have never heard of (and he didn't dl them). ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 16 Aug 2001 18:36:27 From: aquamine at iafrica dot com (Gunnar Schillings) Subject: Elephant Tape I tried to connect to theze tapes a couple of times now and notting appens!! For da streeeming ther is a response saying: NOT AVAILABLE For da head down you will be asked for a new G2 player as da shit on my computer cannot cope with da hightech on your site!!! I only got the latest version 8 player and other musicks on the net play fine when designed for G2. Are you smoking your socks or what is happening? Best regards Gunnar ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 16 Aug 2001 10:50:09 From: joebizarre at earthlink dot net (joebizarre) Subject: Nouveau Metal - Nuovo Metal - New Metal Did you guys ever stop to think that, with Belew's and Fripp's sense of humor, it is a good probability that this title is tongue in cheek? Maybe they were joking around with some reporter (or Tool fan) that asked them what kind of music they played and they laughed and said "Heavy Metal!!!" and stuck out their tongues and made Satanic hand gestures at the person. Then, perhaps, it became an inside joketo the band. When Allan Holdsworth released Metal Fatigue, the ten of his fans groaned thinking that he was jumping on the Metal bandwagon (presumably at Eddie Van Halen's request). After a single listen, we quickly found out that he was saying that he was tired of the Metal scene. Let them call the album whatever they want. As long as the music is the goal, which, judging from the new songs they played live, it is, call it Cat Food or Bird's Organs in a Vomit Sauce or some other terrible name. ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 16 Aug 2001 21:56:33 From: camerondevlin at hotmail dot com (Cameron Devlin) Subject: Album Titles (Andrew Studer), Re: August 5th Review (Miguel Farah F) ALBUM TITLES (Andrew Studer) >>1. The new title is "Nuovo Metal" Nuovo=italian adjective that means >>New This was all originally referred to as "Nouveau Metal" in Fripp's diary, and their supposed new live album is currently "Nouveau Metal". Although it does seem that they call the style Nuovo Metal, so we're both right. >>2. Maybe it's a bit inpolite to tell your best friend his new born >>child's name is awful Unless they called it Crapweasel or SanklePhLEEEEEEEE. And also, the members of King Crimson are not my best friends - they aren't even my favourite band (to which I assume this simile/metaphor refers to). They used to be, but I found other things that (currently) interested me more. This is not to say that King Crimson are "bad now because they're not playing Schizoid Man", or have done anything to make me dislike them (because that would be very childish) (it is also not time for lots of the fanatics to tell me to "move on"). >>3. "Nuovo Metal" looks like a manifesto , sounds like a declaration of >>intention, making the fan so curious of what the next >>Crimson will be. I explained my point above but I'll repeat: "Nouveau Metal" is supposedly the title of the forthcoming album/live album, "Nuovo Metal" does seem to be a manifesto. GIG REVIEW: Springfield, WX - August 5 Er... if that had had a punchline or indeed a point (such as "If Crimson keep doing this sort of thing with Tool they're going to become like this" kind of thing) it would have been worth posting. As it stands, it's just... kind of... not stupid, but just completely random. I'm sure I'll be one of several million to respond, but I'll do it anyway. Examples: >>I didn't have much time to think about this when they began playing >> >>really simple music (as in "4/4 music"! When's the last time crimson >> >>has played in that timesig?) and a group of dancers took the center >> >>of the stage and began dancing!?!?! Well, they've been playing in 4/4 for ages, but it's always cleverly hidden. Most of the stuff off ConstruKction of Light is in 4/4. Try tapping your foot against the rhythm of the guitars and you'll pretty much be swaying about in no time. This doesn't work on the title track or the longer instrumentals, by the way. The "dancers" part is where I get a little confused, and worried about this guy. >How ODD, I thought. Me too. >>Some 30 seconds later, a really thin female singer, dressed in white >>appeared on stage and... >> >>This REALLY caught me off guard. I had read a bit about the other >>shared >>bill concerts in the current tour, so I had mentally prepared >>for >>"moshing", which I assumed it referred to people in the audience >>moving/dancing violently. Instead, what came out was a disorganized >>chorus of high-pitched screams and screeches, that continued on and >>on. OK.. er? >>This singer I mentioned began singing a pop song, and by the time she >finished, the so-called moshing reached a peak. "Moshing" does not happen at pop concerts: it's when a group of people start throwing each other at each other. It gets violent. People have died when it got too heavy. NO ONE EVER MOSHES AT THIS SORT OF CONCERT, because it's not the audience to do so. So no. >>When the girl next to me (so young I hadn't bothered talking to her >> >>before) finished with her screeches, we had the following >> >>conversation: >> >>Me: "Excuse me, who's the singer?" >>She: "It's Christina Aguilera, don't you know that?" >>Me: "Er... I'm here for the musicians in the band." >>She: "You're, like, a relative or something?" >>Me: "No, just a fan." >>She: "Oh, whatever." >> >>After that, she looked at me like I was nuts or something. That's... great... It goes on for ages... >I just hope that Fripp is man enough to admit he's screwed up big time >with this "shared bill" thing and rethinks the whole concept or shelves >it altogether Anyway... that's great Miguel. If this was meant to be a joke, it wasn't funny (but only because it didn't make any sense) and if it was a real experience... maybe it wasn't King Crimson. Just a possibility. Oh dear. Cameron http://www.alteredstate.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 14 Aug 2001 18:24:14 From: passionsource at mindspring dot com (Hb) Subject: GIG REVIEW: Portland> In the TOOLSHED Despite the sold-out status of the show, I managed to get a decent floor seat for face value.. I was one of two KC shirt wearers present in a sea of Tool fans. Many empty seats for the Crim set; I had the aisle to myself! Here's the hour-long Crim set list: Dangerous Curves (new), The Construction of Light, Into the Frying Pan, Level 5 (new), The Deception of the Thrush, Larks' IV/Coda w/o Vocal, Thela Hun Ginjeet, and Red. This was the first time for me seeing this particular formation. (I seen every tour since '84 except last year's..) The new material was powerful and tightly played, Adrian pulled off some very cool solos, Trey rocked, as usual, and Mr. Fripp had his moments also. Pat left me abit flat; sorry, I'm not a big V-Drum, non-acoustic kit fan.. When they played the older material, these songs almost fell apart, especially Thela Hun Ginjeet.. Level 5 is a real Burner, which even got the Tool fans out if their seats for abit! It was great to see TCOL & LTIA4 live! A word for my dear Robert and co: Might you be using the latest technology merely for the sake of being on the cutting edge/22nd Century SOTA? In all honesty, Robert's guitar tone has gotten to be way to synthetic for my tastes, as are those horrid 'drum' samples/gizmos.. Now, I'm very open-minded when it comes to hearing new devices, tones,etc, but it doesn't mean I have to like them because they're suppose to be SOTA.. In fact all of this modeling technology (Line6, Roland, etc.) mostly sucks, to these ears! So my suggestion to this incarnation of the Crim is thus: Question Tonality!! I hung out in the TOOLSHED (smoking area) between sets and fielded many inquiries about KC and asked several about Tool, since all that I had heard prior to the show was "Aenima".. My larger picture opinion for the Crim, is that I believe they were successful in turning on another Generation to the likes of the KING! Which I believe was their goal, along with turning a buck... Tool was LOUD and very tight, with a constant barrage of twisted projected video imagery. I agree with Trey's take on these guys (see his diary entry at beginning of tour..). An enjoyable evening, indeed! {The above is an opinion held by me; if you have been offended, empassioned, outraged, or stimulated in any way by my comments, well...GOOD!!!} ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 15 Aug 2001 19:06:05 From: spearman at hotmail dot com (Spear man) Subject: GIG REVIEW: Gig reviews KC/TOOL 8/10 and 8/13 8/10 and 8/13 thought the sound of 8/10 was better suited for KC and 8/13 for TOOL. KC's set on 8/13 need more volume--but I was in the mezzanine for that show--so that may be the problem--although my seat was closer than on 8/10. And there seemed to be no AC in the Wiltern--bad bad bad. KC rocked pretty well on 8/10--had the audience with them, too. Some sound problems near the beginning of the set and was that an e-drum tracking error (or a Pat flub (shutter to think :))) during 8/10's thela (dedicated to Les [Claypool])? I wasn't aware of that many flash problems on 8/10, but I was in row DD (36 or something) so I'm sure I missed some. Unf, the 8/10 show was a short set by KC standards, but longer than 8/13 which seemed quite abbreviated and seemed much more marred by audience interruptions. Not sure what Trey was telling Pat when Adrian walked off for the trio's number on 8/13, but Pat just seemed to not be on it during that one or maybe he forgot his part--not sure. At least one of the Red Hot Chili Peppers were in the audience on 8/13--John Frusciante--I believe. Thought TOOL was better years ago at the festival I saw them play at shoreline--the one were TOOL ended their set and the Orb closed. TOOL's sound is great--Maynard's scream is the best there is in rock right now and Danny Carey is an awesome drummer, but the visuals for this show got a little old for me waay too quickly--ended up leaving both shows right after about the 6th TOOL song. --spearman ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 16 Aug 2001 18:46:29 From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: GIG REVIEW: Wiltern Theatre - 13th August 2001 [Forwarded by permission -- Mike] After a late invite from a friend the same day, I unexpectedly saw Tool and King Crimson last night at the Wiltern Theater. I'm not masochistic enough to throw detailed comments to the RMP buzzards, but I really didn't enjoy myself much. I thought it was easily the weakest of four Crimson shows I've seen...a dominantly instrumental set composed of weak ConstruKction of Light material, two way-too-predictable recurrent picks ("Red" and "Thela Hun Ginjeet") and a new instrumental which was a 100% rehash of previous ideas. Not much visual style, either -- Gunn and Mastelotto have nowhere near the charisma (or musical flair) of Bruford and Levin; Belew was underdressed and uninspired; and Fripp was Fripp, shunning the world from his darkened stool. It was fairly depressing for me. The first time I've seen Crimson when it didn't feel "special." I could barely sit through Tool, but I did. The encore segment was a bit more enjoyable when they played the more tuneful "favorites," but most of the set seemed like one long, single-chord drone. Nothing but momentum, rhythm and ritual. It's lucky Tool has their videos to distract their fans from how phenomenally tedious their music is. I remain baffled why this band is so popular. I guess it's a "mystique" thing. Note: Tool's Maynard Keenan was almost as invisible as Fripp, singing in darkened silhouette before a back-projected video screen. The night's biggest surprise: Fripp reappeared behind the stage to do Soundscapes for several minutes, when Tool took a break before their encore. When Tool re-entered, the guitarist added some tentative notes to Fripp's roar. Fripp was so in the background that I didn't even realize it was him, at first. The second biggest surprise: Standing up after the lights came on, and noticing Cameron Diaz sitting about 20 feet away. ;) Coming after Roxy Music (practically the *best* concert I've seen this year), this show was quite a comedown. ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 16 Aug 2001 16:49:26 From: rone at ennui dot org (cave deum) Subject: GIG REVIEW: Berkeley, Aug 11 show I found it intensely annoying that in a No Smoking theater, the air was smoky by the time KC came on stage. A girl across the aisle from my wife had to leave halfway through Tool's set because she couldn't breathe anymore. That's just not cool. At least it was just cigarettes and pot; the clove and pipe smokers managed to restrain themselves and smoke only outside. Some jerk set off a flash midway through TCoL, within a stone's throw from me, but out of arm's length. And i didn't have any stones... The theater had great sound, and my wife and i were in the middle of the lower balcony, which i think was the best spot in the house. I was a bit disappointed that it was too loud. I would've thought that Fripp's, ah, parsimony would want the music amplified to a sub-earbleed level so that people may enjoy it without resorting to earplugs (which i forgot). In the lower balcony it was just a bit too loud; i expect that on the floor it was near painful. No tinnitus, though, which is always good. There was this bizarre piece with distorted voices after "Level 5" (which started off a little repetitive, but then launched into an excellent exchange of notes); really strange stuff. Then Trey played this simply beautiful piece (i gather from other reviews that it's "Deception of the Thrush"). I'm sorry i missed his band in February; the man just knows how to play. But then all of the KC members do. I wished Robert had stuck with the other band members to bow to the audience when the set was over; instead he just hurried off. But then he reappeared after Reflection/Disposition for a Soundscape... very nice. Tool was incredibly good. Both setlists were well put together and well played. My wife said she would have preferred an hour of Tool and 100 minutes of KC; i'd've taken 100 of each. I can't wait for KC to come back this way, armed with a full set. Sore spots: Maynard's vocals at the start of "46 & 2" came out crackly, perhaps too much gain? And i missed Tony Levin's backing vocals in "Frame By Frame"; i think Trey's vocals are up to the task, judging from _One Thousand Years_, so i hope he chips in next time. rone -- Looking for God's underpants since 1985. ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 17 Aug 2001 1:40:36 From: allengnolte at earthlink dot net ( ) Subject: GIG REVIEW: Tool/KCrim show Aug. 15, 2001 Who I am: A King Crimson fan since '97, and a Tool fan for one year. I have every KCrim release one can purchase through normal means (no bootlegs), and have been a KCCC member since its inception. I also feel that Tool is the most poignant band to emerge since our beloved KCrim. What a treat, then, for me to experience my two favorite bands in one evening. I'll mostly limit myself to set lists, since I'm preaching to the choir. KCrim: This was KCrim's last date w/ Tool. I was delighted to see Robert Fripp saunter nonchalantly onstage to check his gear during sound check. Yes, stool is positioned correctly. Rack systems are within arm's length, and foot pedals are within reach. Presets are ready; all systems go. He wore a shirt the same color as his dedicated stage light, ever the chameleon. For the Trey-infatuated gal: He wore some very casual footwear, either thongs or sandals, and donned matching shirt and pants of navy blue. The shirt was fairly tight-fitting, and the pants sported some very hip white stripes down the sides. Adrian was all bright shoes and neon guitars. Pat was Pat, the dedicated dervish of all things percussion. The sound was great - I could hear the stereo separation. Volume was way too low! The performance was mostly tight as a drum. Forgive my lack of substantial detail; performance-wise, it was similar to shows you've already read about, which is to say "consummate and dignified". The set list: The ConstruKction of Light Into the Frying Pan Level 5 The Deception of the Thrush [at this point, some jackass yelled "21st Century Schizoid Man"] Improv Larks IV w/ vocal-less coda Thela Hun Ginjeet Red (as previously posted, Danny of Tool assumed percussion during the interlude) A fine performance. For what it's worth, I sat next to two gentlemen who "appeared to be" prototypical Tool fans. They gave resounding applause after each song. Tool: After the first few songs, when Maynard said "Hello" to the audience, he said "I'm assuming you were wise enough to show up early for King Crimson. If not, you should have to pay twice." Later he said "Which one of you had Adrian Belew come to his room and sing 'Three of a Perfect Pair' on acoustic? Oh, that was me. ha-hah-haaah." Still later, during a pause, he said how strongly KCrim had influenced Tool. He stressed the importance of musical history, that "you can't know where you're going unless you know where you've been." He said that "if you see something missing up here, you can use that as a catalyst to create something greater." Yeah, those Tool guys are such thugs. I'm glad that the insubstantial comparisons, aimless bickering, and arrogant pontifications are reserved for us fans, and not the creators. For those interested, the Tool set was as follows: The Grudge, Stinkfist, Forty Six 2, Prison Sex, Schism, Pushit, Disposition, Reflection, soundscape by Robert Fripp, Sober, Parabol/a, Aenima, Lateralus. I hope everyone there felt as privileged as I did. I just saw the only two bands whose modus operandi is being true to oneself. Thanks, allen nolte ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 17 Aug 2001 15:48:05 From: the_unifaun at hotmail dot com (Marcus Enochsson) Subject: GIG REVIEW: GIG REVIEWS: From the ears of the Toolmen Howdy folks! While reading through the reviews of KC/Tool concerts on http://toolshed.down.net/0000.html, I eventually started to ctrl c and ctrl v the KC related bits to send to our favourite Markus Gnad. As I find these bits very interesting to read, I suspect that other Kcrimsonists might enjoy this lecture and have a laugh or two as well for the same expense. So, forgive me for the uncompleteness of these review extraKcts, and feel free to search for more laughs/insights at http://toolshed.down.net However, I had to go search again for the MOST RULING PIECE OF REVIEW EXTRAKCT EVER WRITTEN, which I found in the 3rd aug section, composed by the ruling Master Reviewer: "King Crimson came out and played a rather dull set. I am only 21, so I don't know who they are, therefore I cannot appericiate their music." I just can't help but loving it!!! Quote of the month, at least. Ey, caramba, shouldn't this be printed on a new set of t-shirts, mr. Freeep??? Cheerio etc, Marcus ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 17 Aug 2001 12:42:55 From: gspeabody at yahoo dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW: you can lead a horse to water... King Crimson & TOOL----well for me it was unbelievable---recently discovering KC (only about a year) and loving TOOL (not og, since 1997 performance, hooked ever since) if any one was at SD, well maynard said it best if you didn't show up early for KC you should have had to pay twice. i was going to post a review on toolshed since barely anyopne there mentions KC--at least in KC fan reviews they talk about the TOOL shows but one or two reviews on toolshed...well. I'm glad I knew most of the songs KC played (14th nad 15th) and glad they played the first KC song that I heard (thela SD.) So instead of wasting my time with toolshed heshians (but thank you k'beer) I would like to spend my energy here--thank you TOOL & KC you guys kick ass--and I hope people didn't buy the tshirts ($35!-listen to hooker with a penis and then if you don't feel dumb buying it...well, it was a cool shirt. They should have had posters! I'm not framing some stupid tshirt, even if it is signed.) I can't wait for a KC headlining tour through CA, esp. since these performances, I would guess, were a young persons guide to a King Crimson show--like those little kids can sit there for more than an hour without a TV---maybe that's why TOOL has the video screen. And if anyone was there for tues at LA---"...that bongo dude was really good...." thank you for the soundbyte idiot, wish i had a tape recorder. I've seen tabla on TV, I know they have a TV. And if you live in California there are enough drum circles to know a bongo from a tabla. AND ONE MORE RANT______TREY GUNN YOU FUCKIN' ROCK!!!!!!!!!!! Tour? there front row (i hope) that guy can slap some gut (even though he probably uses metal strings and i really didn't see him slapping that much. Les Claypool/Flea/Ron Carter have been demoted-LEVIN?) Robert Fripp on the soundacape/intermission/intro to parabol was amazing (15th.) Am I crazy or should have Fripp organised a KC/TOOL band and had Maynard with that beautiful voice go into some easy money, or fallen angel, or....it's just too bad, to waste all that talent and mutual respect. TOOL fans reading this go buy absent lovers....if nothing else it semi-cheap for the length. This is the kind of tour I like, KC should let TOOL open (i read it) but let them play for a little while...i could sit through two hours of TOOL and then another two with KC. Of course add TOOL after its already sold out.... P.S. Fripp, I don't care if USA sounds bad all the rolling stone schmuks and big magazine reviews put that one on the top of the list-but no vinyl, no cd, and I'm not buying some CD from a guy in Russia on ebay--esp. since I'm not even sure if it's ever been CD at all. That's OK for old blues singers from the 1920s and 1930s but someone must have the masters. And as well-24 bit remaster--where's the new vinyl?? any audiophiles out there????? P.P.S. Want to buy soundscapes-no best of please-the only guy that I know that heard of robert fripp hadn't heard of KC. What first? Remember I will have to use this to convert the youngsters...it'll be hard for me to make them believe that the music will mention sex or drugs or something and there's probably no video. ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 18 Aug 2001 00:43:25 From: paulohml at uol dot com dot br (Paulo H Leocadio UOL) Subject: GIG REVIEW: King Crimson in Mexico City aug17 Well, What can I say? Sometime past midnight, just arrived back to the hotel, once more travelled all the way from Sao Paulo just to catch them live. Know what? Gonna keep doing this until it becomes impossible. This time a very large Theater, like the ones from the ancient times, jusbeautiful, classical, kinda goth. Downtown Mexico City, thousands of people talking Crimsonesque here and there. Just Perfect. If they do not go to my country I go after them anyway. Met ETers before the show in the Progrestaurant a couple of minutes away: Crimson on the video, Prog Menu, Prog everywhere. Genuine Jamaican Ron to warm up. Entering the venue, crazy crowd jamming the way. Decided to sit: GOSH, WHAT'S THAT? Many people close to tha stage, some sound getting louder, it's Fripp himself warming up the crowd with a full soundscape intro. Twenty minutes to the concert Fripp leaves after twenty minutes playing leaving the system still on. Ten minutes to the concert the oficial announcement. Three minutes to the concert enter the Crims. .Soundscapes (Fripp Solo) .Dangerous Courves (this song evolved from last year improvisations I saw) .The ConstruKction of Light .Into the Frying Pan .Larks' Tongues in Aspic part V .Deception pf the Thrush (ProjeKct 3). .Dinosaur .Larks' Tongues in Aspic part IV with instrumental only Coda. .Cyriel (?) - Ade on Synth, also from last year improvisations .ProzaKc Blues .Thela Hun Jingeet .Red .Encore 1: ..Oyster Soup ..Elephant Talk .Encore 2: ..VROOOM .Encore 3: ..Frame by Frame I am really tired. There is more tomorrow though. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #869 ********************************