Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #864 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 864 Friday, 3 August 2001 Today's Topics: NEWS: Trey Gunn Update GIG BIZ: A third concert in Mexico City: August 19! Re: George Harrison "related" to Crimson? Born Again Crimson ! fripp and hendrix? Maybe... how about hendrix and elp Collectors'Club question King Crimson double album Re: Fripp on Ovation John Wetton w/ Roxy Music? ThrakAttak revisted CLUB12: Lets Face It noise and fuzzy sounds on new Collectors Club CD maximum music month points of clarification.... EXPOSURE Re: complaints of the tour Re: An opinion from 1 GEEZER... GIG REVIEW: crimson in New Orleans ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 18:32:31 -0400 From: John DeChello Subject: NEWS: Trey Gunn Update The Trey Gunn Update August 1, 2001 -- www.treygunn.com Redesigned -- Trey Mixing New Trey Gunn Band Live CD -- Trey In August 2001 Issue of Jazziz Magazine -- New Diaries: On Tour with King Crimson and Tool www.treygunn.com Redesigned Trey's official site has been redesigned by Ioannis at Vivid Images Worldwide, who has also designed the last several CD packages for Trey, as well as for King Crimson's The Construkction of Light. The site will feature an ever-changing selection of audio, video and additional special features. Right now there is video from the Trey Gunn Band and King Crimson. Check the site out at http://www.treygunn.com/ Trey Mixing New Trey Gunn Band Live CD Trey is in the studio mixing a new live Trey Gunn Band Live CD from the band's latest tour. A song list is not yet available, but the set is due to be released in November. The CD will also feature live performance video in QuickTime(tm) format. We'll publish details as we get them. Trey In August 2001 Issue of Jazziz Magazine Trey is featured in the August issue of Jazziz, which is available at most newsstands in the U.S., and online at http://www.jazziz.com/ New Diaries Trey goes on tour with King Crimson and Tool, and you can read his take on all the latest happenings in his personal diary at http://www.treygunn.com/word/ Tell a friend about Trey Gunn -- forward this email, or better yet ask them to subscribe at http://www.treygunn.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:59:36 -0500 From: "Gerardo Liedo" Subject: GIG BIZ: A third concert in Mexico City: August 19! Tickets on sale this Friday, August 3rd.. Those who will attend from other countries, mail me and again I can buy your tickets for free (well you pay face value, no more) Again tickets on sale on line http://www.ticketmaster.com.mx/eventos.asp?searchname=KING_CRIMSON_TEATRO_ME TROPOLITAN_(D.F.) Remember to enter the whole URL including the "(D.F.)" or enter the main page and search for it! Save some money buying them A hot weekend in Mexico City, now three dates Friday, Saturday and Sunday!! A press conference is planning and I hope it will be recorded and released! Stay Crimsonized ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 17:33:13 -0500 From: Don Hosek Subject: Re: George Harrison "related" to Crimson? At 09:05 AM 7/28/2001 +0000, you wrote: >The connection is even closer than you know...Ian Wallace played on the >"Traveling Wilburys" album with George Harrison. How do I know? I'm looking >at the platinum record on my wall as we speak. >Best, >Margie Gee, I hadn't realized that when they made the platinum records, they went so far as to include all the musician credits ;-) -dh (yes, yes, I know...) --- Don Hosek, bassist http://don.dream-in-color.net/ Dream in Color - http://www.dream-in-color.net/ 312/953-3679 don at dream-in-color dot net "And everything is instant, no one has to wait too long And Lennon never has to sing a Paul McCartney Song." (Kevin Gilbert, "Joytown") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 23:14:35 EDT From: MCMOWRY at aol dot com Subject: Born Again Crimson ! Dear ETer's At age 48, I've gone full circle with KC. Got hooked on ITCOTKC after the first listen and in rapid sucession purchased everything on vinyl through the USA release. Got to see KC in both Tampa (Curtis Hixon Hall) and Providence 1974 (Palace Concert Theater) not knowing that I was witnessing the end of the Fripp, Wetton, Cross, Bruford era. Crimson was my musical passion, but just as quick came marriage, three kids, and an everyday job. KC drifted away for close to 25 years although I gave a curious listen here and there to the Discipline era releases. As my son entered his teenage years, my passions were rekindled by his interests in both alternative music and the bass guitar. First a discussion of bass players makes me mention Wetton. Soon I'm pulling out old vinyl for him to sample KC for himself. Finally, I'm searching the net for anything about KC finding the ET and Discipline websites and downloading Mexico City. Christmas 1999, I open a small package from the kids, and there it is - "The Projects Box Set". Boy, I've got some great kids! What is this spell that Crimson has on me? In rapid sucession I'm getting my hands on every release in sight, Absent Lovers, Amsterdam, LTIA and Red reissues, TCOL, Heavy Construction..... Spring 2001, the circle is almost complete. I'm at my local Best Buy store with the Discipline and SABB reissues in my hand when I walk by the box set section, and there it is - The Great Deceiver!!! This is no time to despair about money. Out comes my VISA Platinum and the circle is complete. GD doesn't leave my CD player for three weeks, and I'm dreaming of June 30th, 1974 and the Palace Concert Theater. Today, I'm listening to Heavy Construction. I've had it now for seven months, but all of a sudden today disc 3 has just blown me away. But that's the way it is with Crimson, and only the people who make up this forum could possibly understand. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 22:48:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Burch Subject: fripp and hendrix? Maybe... how about hendrix and elp I agree that Fripp and Hendrix were two of the best guitar players of all time. They would sound incredible together. Unrelated to KC, but still regaurding the topic at hand, I had heard that Hendrix was going to join up with ELP, and had planned to but didn't due to his newfound deceased state. Now, Fripp and Hendrix would sound good together, but Fripp and ELP(would be called HELP, neat huh?) would be much more interesting. I wasn't too much a fan of most of Hendrix's material, it wasn't progressive enough for me, and ELP was good, but certainly no JT or KC, but I think that HELP would have been absolutely amazing. I think of ELP in my mind, and Hendrix in my mind, and I put the two together and it sounds very good. Hendrix had everything ELP lacked, and vise versa. Has anyone else heard of this? Does anyone agree that HELP would have been the super group of the 70's? Discuss. ===== Peace out! Brian Brianman3 at yahoo dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:49:01 From: "alexis rondeau" Subject: Collectors'Club question I'm preparing to join back the Collectors'Club and I'm going to get some from the back catalogue. I don't know wich ones tough an I would like your advice on some difficult decisions... I really like (9) Summit Studio so I'm gonna get another one from the Boz band. Witch one do you prefer between (2) Jacksonville and (14) Plymouth? I'm tempted by Plymouth just because it's a 2 cd set... but what about the music? And then what information do you have that could help me choose between (4) Cap D'Agden and (16) Berkley? Hopefully they both sound somwhat clearer than Moles Club! Of course I do care about sound quality, but rare songs and improv are usually what I prefer with the CC. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 20:02:57 +0100 From: "spencer mapp" Subject: King Crimson double album On the In The Court of the Crimson King and Lark's Toungues in Aspic double album my copy has status quo on one side - consisting of Rock n Roll and 3 unidentified tracks. How did this happen, when and why? Also if so were they not all recalled? Please contact me at pod-mapp@fsnet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:48:10 -0400 From: Joan Bull Subject: Re: Fripp on Ovation Regarding Robert MacCoun's 7/20 post: < I can't resist opining that his later acoustic playing on the crafty guitar albums is, to my ears, dreadful. The Crafty Guitar period Subject: John Wetton w/ Roxy Music? Recently, Roxy started a world tour, which played here in NYC on 7/23 & 7/24. On Sunday the 22nd, in the NY Daily News, they did a two-page spread about Roxy. Of note, the interviewer asked Bryan Ferry about how Roxy never seemed to have a steady bass player. Ferry ad-libbed a bit, but ended saying, "We were all ready to bring John Wetton on as our permanent bassist, when John told me 'I'm off to join Uriah Heep'" Poor choice, John. P.S. The show was phenomenal, and highly recommended if it's in your area! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:44:16 -0400 From: "Peter Shindler" Subject: ThrakAttak revisted Hey gang, I whipped out my copy of ThrakAttak this week for the first time in at least 3 years. I had remembered it as being an hour of nothing but cacophonous noise, and recalled that I'd never once been able to listen to the whole thing in one session (though I found it brilliant in smaller doses). Now I was expecting the worst, since, if anything, my tastes have mellowed a bit lately. Imagine my surprise when I found it to be completely listenable from start to finish! I guess the Projekcts, BLUE, and the Construkction material made this stuff seem a lot more approachable. I haven't heard mention of this album here at all for a long time. I'd like to know if anyone's listened to it lately, and what you think of it now. Peter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 00:35:42 +0000 From: "Cameron Devlin" Subject: CLUB12: Lets Face It I think it's probably about time to face the fact that CLUB12 (Live in Hyde Park) is never going to get released. Is DGM going to organise a new CLUB12? Perhaps just doing the upcoming '71 Live In Detroit as 12 would make sense, since it doesn't really make much difference... just for us anal retentive fans that like order in our collections (i'm currently jumping from 11 to 13 and it makes me feel like I should be buying something :) ). Taking my life (such as it is) and going now, Cameron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:58:52 -0700 From: "PT" Subject: noise and fuzzy sounds on new Collectors Club CD I just got my copy of #16 KC live in Berkeley 1982 and I MUST have a defective copy. it is totally noise, clicks, fuzz, etc - like an old LP played with a dirty needle. I tried it on a few different CD players - it's unlistenable. anyone else have these problems ? Pat in San Fran. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 00:40:12 -0600 From: "Elaine C. Erb" Subject: maximum music month Phew, what an intense, incredible fun weekend of music. I want to state up front that this is the 11th time I've gone to a WOMAD festival and yes I am a total junkie for them. So no, I didn't solely go for the chance to see Peter Gabriel play out for the first time in years. Lots of amazing music through the weekend from the jazzy african stylings of Lagbaja to the uptempo Bengali music of Baul Bishwa. Perry Farrell came in to DJ a set and remind me that yes, it is an artform to properly put a set of music together and being a musician doesn't automatically qualify you to do the job well. TransGlobal Underground was popular despite their blowing the power a few times and Simon Shaheen put on a mesmerizing set of predominantly mideastern music with shades of jazz thrown on top. Waiting to meet the Blind Boys of Alabama I was amused to run into Anil Prasad who seemed surprised I would remember his name from this forum. The Peter Gabriel set was wonderful, and yes, I only got to hear the evening set. Apparently they tried to do an early runthrough on stage only to find all the vendors, stuck at their booths most of the festival, drawn to the stage for this intimate performance. With the rapt audience they played through their whole 65 minute set! Gabriel took to the stage with just Tony and then was joined by a drummer with whom I am not familiar, David Rhodes, and James MacNally from AfroCelt sound System. They were joined for some parts of the show by Gabriel's daughter Melanie, members of the south African group Imbizo, and other members of AfroCelt like Johnny Kalsi (hey the Dhol Foundation album just came to us!) and Iarla O'Lionaird. Along with classics like In Your Eyes and Solsbury Hill they also featured some new cuts like Signal to Noise and Father and Son. I guess I couldn't help sharing this totally off thread moment because I gotta tell you, of all the times I have seen Tony Levin play over the last few years I don't think I have seen him having that much fun in a long time. He absolutely glowed up there. Whether it was being back with his buddies and playing familiar music or being on stage on a beautiful Seattle evening with a huge crowd soaking in every moment I don't know. But he obviously enjoyed the whole weekend from being able to bring his wife Andi to watching Peter and Melanie learn the words Imbizo were singing to the continued appeals to journalists that yes, he is still technically a member of King Crimson, Levin was showing that charisma and appeal that makes him both a great musician and person. Now I gotta try to mellow out the WOMAD high and get in the Crimson mood! I'm glad they are doing this show in Boulder because as much as I have always wanted to see them at Red Rocks there are just no tickets to be had. Pretty steep prices as well this time through. And don't worry, I won't even start on that forthcoming show that has David Byrne sharing a stage with Russell Crowe's band 30 Odd foot of Grunts........ Elaine O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O To most people nothing is more troublesome than the effort of thinking. - james bryce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 03:06:27 +1000 From: "Keenan, Owen" Subject: points of clarification.... Hi all, Some recent comments in this newsletter, on various topics, have, as far as I'm concerned, been misleading. So... 1. The GG&F demos LP 'Metaphormosis' is not a bootleg. Publishing details are provided along with contacts for the company (Tenth Planet) responsible for its existence (A reputable, yet boutique psychedelic music specialist label based in the UK... not Italy or any other bootleg haven). Although the LP may have been released without the endorsement of RF, I am led to believe that Peter Giles was a major consultant and assisted with the liner notes, photos etc. Please correct me if I am wrong. 2. The abovementioned LP is called 'Metaphormosis' **NOT** 'Metamorphosis'. 3. King Crimson are supporting/opening/special-guests/whatever with Tool for one reason only... Tool are currently a major commercial success, KC are not. This is simply how it is. Some people may consider this unjust, but it is not something to get yourself worked up about. Respect Tool for having the courage to tour with a band that is not in the same league as them, either commercially or stylistically. 4. Tool are a band that fit into one of the plethora of sub-genres of (heavy)metal... Please don't comment about them if you do not have an appreciation of these styles of music. This is misleading. As a general rule, if you appreciate metal and are a fan of KC you may like Tool... if you don't appreciate metal you may not like Tool, whether you are a KC fan or not. 5. The genre NuMetal is generally applied to those bands that mix heavy rapping with metal styled music... Korn, Limp Biskit, Linkin Park etc. The greatest success stories in this genre appear to be heavily concerned with image/attitude... perhaps this is as important to the genre as the music. 6. Tool are **NOT** NuMetal. As to why KC are playing with the title 'Nouveau Metal'... who knows? Don't take offense people as these comments aren't meant to be personal. Cheers, O! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 20:20:18 +0100 From: "Peter Dervin" Subject: EXPOSURE This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C11A7B.39AE2C20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Dervin (exposure_kser at hotmail dot com) Everett, WA 01-Aug-2001 16:33 GMT OK...the big news...EXPOSURE - www.kser.org - "music worth playing" Dan Kirkdorffer, DGM Webmaster will be my special guest on EXPOSURE this coming Friday evening at 10:00 PM Pacific on KSER 90.7 FM in Everett, WA, USA following Everett Aquasox baseball. Dan and I will be playing an assortment of King Crimson and DGM releases for your listening pleasure. Dan is also bringing some goodies for lucky listeners. We will have some CD's, T-shirts and...tickets....YES tickets for the upcoming KC/tool Seattle shows. One ticket for Monday, August 6th, and one ticket for Tuesday, August 7th. In order to win...you have to be listening to KSER 90.7 FM on Friday night at 10:00 PM PST within the northern Puget Sound area...or you can listen over the internet at www.kser.org/live.ram. To win prizes...you'll need to know your KC/Fripp trivia because Dan and I will be putting together some questions in order to win. Hope you can make it and tune in to EXPOSURE on KSER 90.7 FM - www.kser.org/live.ram. For more information, you can email me at: exposure_kser at hotmail dot com. Cheers! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 20:43:37 From: "Spear man" Subject: Re: complaints of the tour wrote Brian Burch: >Ok, I'm mad now. Not just mad, but real mad. King Crimson is my number one all time favorite band for the obvious reasons, and they haven't been to the Denver area since I became a fan. I've been waiting around for years, and finally, to my disbelief, they set up two concerts in the Denver area!!! WOW!!! So, I mosey on in to buy tickets to the Red Rocks show with KC and Tool, but they were sold out in 15 minutes.< The reason that you found the show to have sold out so quickly was that there was an internet pre-sale event and if you knew the password or were lucky and made the obvious guess (like I was--got it on the second try :)) you'd have gotten tickets then. So while I didn't get in immediately, I can tell you that the tickets they were selling were already to the back of the front section. Row 39.... --spearman "ain't got time to stash the gumbo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:36:25 -0700 From: dose2000 at msn dot com Subject: Re: An opinion from 1 GEEZER... Sorry but a wee bit of history from this GEEZER first... I'm 49 & have been a professional musician since age 16, have been a KC man since buying & hearing ITCOTCK in 69(sadly, a moment not possible to duplicate, however the "experience" CAN be duplicated each time you are lucky enough to witness a "live" KC performance, OR get the 1st listen to every new(original)KC album/cd.) I'm also a long time reader 1st time poster, and as a 49 yr old GEEZER i've only begun to learn about using computers 6 months ago, before that I relied on my 20 yr old son(who recently "flew from his GEEZER/FATHER's coop")to pull up sites for me to check out. I know that really makes me a GEEZER right? Pls bear with my ignorance of PC's & their lingo. The majority of this post will pertain to the post of 1 JEF520 at aol dot com from about 1 week ago, however I may stray from that towards the end. I guess I need to know what "he" defines as "middle-aged" or being a "GEEZER" is?, none the less I shall respond as if "I" fit his catagory. Living in St. Louis, but speaking ONLY for this GEEZER & his contemoraries(and "possibly" for most of the Northern Hemisphere?)it has been OUR observations that "if" us middle-aged GEEZER'S act "more rudely" than the younger generation(whatever his definition of that "group" may be?)he speaks "for", I do believe our "rudeness" only stems from an armour "we" have equipped ourselves with for the protection from the lack of "manners"..respect...& general behaviour "I" have found the "younger generation"(whatever his parameters of that term be)-(children from 6 to 60..."my parameters")shown to people of my age & possibly any! I realize my opinion may be myopic and pertain to only a certain % of "younger" people, but how myopic is his general veiwpoint of us GEEZERS? It has been my experience that a great many "people of all ages" with the same intelllect, act rude at crowded gatherings maybe more so a a "crowded concert venue" packed with people who are diverse enough to be "jammed together" but brought together, many with little knowledge of the "geezer's" musicians, or "geezer's who largely have little knowledge of the "younger people's" musicians for a period(time)of musical performance. BTW, at diverse situations as the 1 we (I) speak of, does'nt EVERYONE sit around a table & discuss "their" favorite(add your own noun)musical groups(Geezer's & Yongster's)whether or not Danny Carey is sitting next to the geezer's table or Terry Bozzio is next to the "youngster's? Personally, "I" don't know of any Crimfan "geezer's"(at least in my small circle of thousands)who don't realize(for the most part)that you "can't" tap your foot to the majority of KC composistions, and does'nt some "tolerance" from both camps need to be adhered to in ANY situation? Please...each moment is different from the next...people too. BTW, my rant however boring is not an attack upon JEF520, just an "opinion of 1 old geezer, middle aged drummer who STILL plays "ferociously" at local clubs 3 nites at week & approaches the music, most of which he has played many times(on "his" drumkit)as if each song was "brand new" & the same person listens to EVERY different type of music with the same open mind. I can only speak for "this", "middle-aged, "geezer". End Rant. Lastly, to the person(s)who wonder about how Fripp & Hendrix, or Fripp & Bill Nelson would sound together, unfortunately we can only "hope" that 1 of the 2 choices could still happen, or is possible...the more interesting(to me)question to me would be, what would Jimi & Robert's ego/personalities mesh into? I have the feeling that Hendrix's gregarious nature would be at odds with the "personality" of Mr. Fripp...but what a beautiful bloody trainwreck that would be to envision. I know thousands of people hang on every musical note that anyone who had anything to do w/KC perform(or say or do)but let's all strive to surround ourselves w/as MANY different types of music(any art form)as we can open ourselves to, as we are here but a BRIEF time and there have ALWAYS been virtuosos in music(again, any art)long before The Crimson Kings and will be long after they are gone!(However the music will be here & with us forever!) "There are 40 people in the world, and 5 of them are hamburgers" Don Van Vliet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 06:50:46 -0500 From: "Bergeon, Thomas C SEPCO" Subject: GIG REVIEW: crimson in New Orleans Caught the tour in the House of Blues New Orleans 7/31 setlist as best I can recall from memory (it varied dramatically from the CIncy show last posted in ET) Vroom, Frame By Frame, Dinosaur, TCOL, new piece, Into the Frying Pan, New with Arabic intro, Larks V, Theta Hun Gingut, New, Red , new encores new or deception of thrush, new blues number, Elephant Talk, possible fourth # The band was definitely tight, all sporting black. Adrian was very much the crowd pleaser although he did alot less string bending antics than previous tours. The new numbers varied from the first piece which was a slow plodding number with a "dismally pathetic chord sequence" to an arabic piece with high frequency flurries which evolved to a long drawn out soundscapish piece, to a number heavy on electronic percussion including Adrian playing sampled drum bits from a computer. The first encore was a trio with Belew backstage. Gunn evoked his talker and then a real nice high register slow and melodic warr guitar solo. THe new blues number was fun and went from mid tempo with a lot of gusto to a faster number at the end. The band were clearly enjoying themselves, even saw a few smiles from Robert who sat facing the center of the stage and stood off in the dark hands clasped like an altar boy before the walkoffs. Tom ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #864 ********************************