Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #863 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 863 Wednesday, 1 August 2001 Today's Topics: Trey Gunn interview King Crimson playing in Brazil for the first time The Cost Of Tool Tour Rating the club releases Knoxville show Re: Jim Bailey, Re: Grant Colburn, Mini-LPs, Nouveau Metal as Title TOPP Studio Rehearsals on Ebay Radio Alert Deja VROOOM-Soundscapes? Possibly of interest Crimson/Tool Concert - Major Disadvantage Heavy ContruKction foot tapping... Hazey Belew Applying the "Tool" to construKct a new audience ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:53:36 -0600 From: "Elaine C. Erb" Subject: Trey Gunn interview Wow, it's just over a week til King Crimson hits Colorado! I can't believe I will get to see Crimson and Peter Gabriel in the same week. Yes, Gabriel is going to do a short acoustic set at the WOMAD festival in Seattle this coming weekend. David Rhodes and Tony Levin will accompany him. Trey Gunn has agreed to come in to KGNU for a short interview on Thursday, Aug 2nd at 3p MT (that's 1pm ET). I'm a little nervous about this interview, especially with the overload of a WOMAD weekend coming first. I do welcome any questions people want to pass on, though I can not guarantee I will ask them. Thanks Toby for keeping ET going and thanks too to whomever has helped make it available on PDA, my current preferred mode of reading ET. Elaine .'-`..cc..<..'-`..cc..'-`..c<`..cc..'-`..c..'-`....c<`..cc..'-`..c..'-`....c< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:51:51 -0300 From: "Paulo H Leocadio UOL" Subject: King Crimson playing in Brazil for the first time Geez! Local newspaper in Sao Paulo noticed today KC september dates in the country, do not now yet the cities but my hometown (Sao Paulo) will be for sure included! I am living inside a KC dream in the last months: seeing them live in Hartford last november, tickets already bought for the two Mexico City dates in August and now this!!!!!! I wonder how much my handshake with Adrian in Hartford telling him that I traveld all the way from Sao Paulo just to see them counted for this!!! I AM ANXIUOS!!!! This is a hell of a millenium. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:38:48 From: "David Reilly" Subject: The Cost Of Tool Tour In E-Talk 861 Danny Anderson hopes that KC take a shitload of bucks off the Tool tour. Might I suggest that in time honoured tradition and in keeping with the fact that Tool's new album went straight in at No 1 in the US charts, the Crimso boys (or DGM) may actually have had to pay to get on the tour? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:51:44 -0500 From: "Damon Jones" Subject: Rating the club releases Hi- I'm probably going to join the club soon, and figured I'd use about half of my initial membership fee trying to get old club releases. Is there any consensus on what the best club releases have been? In general, I like all different incarnations of KC, so for me it's not just a matter of going with a certain era. I looked at the reviews of the club releases on this site. They're helpful but a little hard to sort through and don't give many relative comparisons. Are the reviews/ratings on the AMG site pretty accurate on these releases (http://www.allmusic.com/)? Thanks for any advice. Sorry if this is a common topic; don't visit here enough. -DJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:40:28 -0400 From: "Shawn O'hare" Subject: Knoxville show Amazing. That one word pretty much describes the Crimson show in Knoxville on Tuesday, July 24, 2001. It was my first Crimson show, and I'm still stunned. Hopefully someone will post the set list--there were a number of new songs ("heavy," I guess we'd call them, and I can't wait to hear the final products). For me, the best thing about the show was watching the inter-play between Belew and Fripp. They seemed to be having a great time--especially Belew, and Fripp even smiled once in a while. Trey and Pat were also in fine form, and watching Trey play was quite a treat. Adrian said that they will record the new material in October--does anyone know any other details about that? If you live in the South, by all means do anything you can to see them. Hell, it may even be worth it to fly in just for the show. Amazing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:43:18 +0000 From: "Cameron Devlin" Subject: Re: Jim Bailey, Re: Grant Colburn, Mini-LPs, Nouveau Metal as Title JIM BAILEY'S "Re: Peter Sinfield's "Still"" >>The version of ITttW you're thinking of was "Flight of the Ibis," >>which >>actually uses the original music for that song according to the >>notes in >>the "McDonald and Giles" LP from whence it came. I guess >>I've also just >>answered your last question. Sinfield does contribute >>to this album, >>though; lyrics for the track "Birdman." "Flight of the Ibis" was based on the original Cadence and Cascade, actually. Was this too much effort to check before you commited to the egotistical "A wonderful thing, the human memory. ;-)"? Having said that, you may well be right on which album he means - I've never heard Still (it's always far too expensive on vinyl and it's not on general CD release) but I doubt there is a new version of I Talk To The Wind... unless Sinfield simply ripped it off and didn't tell anyone? GRANT COLBURN'S "Re: Epitaph Acoustic!" >>Though I don't know for sure the true answer to Tomothy's question, I >> >>would remind him that there is acoustic guitar on In the Wake of >> >>Poseidon, Lizard, and Islands, so my guess would be that its Fripp >> >>playing acoustic rather than Lake since its pretty obviously him on >> >>the other early albums recorded without Lake.... I agree with Tim that the main acoustic guitar part does sound a bit like something Lake would do, but I also agree with Grant that the guitar is played by Fripp (although using the reason that "well, Fripp plays acoustic guitar as well so it must be him" is not really good enough). There are subtle things that would suggest this to me: 1) Most obviously, the inside of the album only lists Greg Lake as "Bass Guitar, Lead Vocals". Obviously, this is not proof that Lake didn't play the guitar on it, but just makes it a lot less likely. And as McDonald once said "you just don't play guitar when in a band with Fripp". 2) Fripp had already cultivated his fast picking arpeggio style (Suite in C from The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp being the best example) by ITCOTCK, and although most of Epitaph is gentle, the picking style after the chorus is very Fripp. He used the same technique on Lizard (mainly the title track) most obviously, but still does the same style to this day. So I would assume that Fripp overdubbed the lead guitar part after he put down the acoustic. Although I could be wrong - perhaps Lake influenced Fripp's later acoustic playing? No one but those present when it was recorded could know for sure. MINI-LP REPRODUCTIONS It appears that THRAK is getting remastered and rereleased, despite the fact that it's going to sound exactly the same as it did before. Now I'm not going to go into some rant about how pointless it is that they're doing this only for Fripp or someone to say the obvious "well don't buy it then" because I love this Mini-LP format. In fact, my point is actually.. Why not just release them exclusively in the Mini-LP format? Surely this would make sense, considering the fact that if THRAK is getting done, ConstruKction of Light HAS to be next. If the band just veto the old fashioned Jewel Case package from now on and design to just be released in the gatefold sleeves, then the collectors (who these reproductions are really being made for) will never have an incomplete collection and everyone's happy. Just a suggestion. (General) NOUVEAU METAL AS TITLE Is it just me, or is this one of the ugliest and just... pointless titles that has ever been made? King Crimson currently describe themselves as Nouveau Metal, which is normal, since Crimson has always redefined it's genre. However, using it as a title would sound as stupid as Britney Spears calling her next album "Bubblegum Pop" or Busta Rhymes calling his next album "General Rap". Genre titles just don't sound right as album titles. Maybe it's just me that thinks this, in which case I'll just have to grin and bear the people who have never heard Crimson taking the piss out of their poorly named new album(s?). Examples of good album titles? : "Larks' Tongues In Aspic", "OK Computer", "Remain In Light".... not just great albums, but titles that could (and have) gone down in history. My own suggestion for new Crimson album title (although it will obviously be ignored) would be "A Virtuous Circle" (named after one of the new tracks). That's one of the most interesting titles Crimson has had for a song/piece (I've never heard it) in many years. Maybe this seems a little bit overly picky, but the importance of the name of an album should never be underestimated. Would "The White Album" have gone down quite as well if it had been called "Hello, We Play Rock Music and This Album Cover Is Completely White, Isn't That Clever". Will leave now before I start to look even more pedantic. Cameron http://www.alteredstate.co.uk *GO TO THAT ADDRESS* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:50:44 From: "Matt D" Subject: TOPP Studio Rehearsals on Ebay Here is the link. Happy bidding! King Crimson Studio Rehearsals 1983 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1450644318 *********************************************************** Matt Deibert www.spacestationintegration.com Check out Spacestation Integration MP3's www.ampcast.com/ssi *********************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 04:15:44 -0700 From: Marc J Goodman Subject: Radio Alert Hey Gang, this is to turn y'all on to a great syndicated radio show, generally heard on a "public" station. Space Music is this show's metier. Here's this week's playlist. It plays on the web on their site as well. Info is in the schedule. Enjoy! Marc J Goodman This week on Hearts of Space... =--------------------------------------------------------------------= PGM 600 : "WHEN SPACE MET ROCK" =--------------------------------------------------------------------= PGM NOTE : space and electronics hit the mainstream: 1968-1978 =--------------------------------------------------------------------= FEED DATE : 7-27-01 =--------------------------------------------------------------------= PINK FLOYD "Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Part 1)" < 0:00->1:51 > : WISH YOU WERE HERE; CBS Records CK 33453; 1975 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000024D4S/heartsofspace : Info: www.pinkfloyd.net (fan site) --segue-- PINK FLOYD "A Saucerful of Secrets" (edited) < 1:51->7:38 > : A SAUCERFUL OF SECRETS; Capitol CDP 0777 7 46383 2 6; 1968; remastered CD reissue: 1992 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000002U9Y/heartsofspace : Info: www.pinkfloyd.net (fan site) PINK FLOYD "Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Parts 3-5)" (edited) < 7:38->16:10 > : WISH YOU WERE HERE; see above http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000024D4S/heartsofspace KING CRIMSON "Epitaph" < 16:10->24:55 > "Moonchild" (part) < 24:55->29:20 > : IN THE COURT OF THE CRIMSON KING; Caroline CAR1502-2; 1999; original Atlantic Records LP release: 1969 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000003S09/heartsofspace : Info: www.disciplineglobalmobile.com/bio/kc69.shtml PINK FLOYD "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun" < 29:20->34:45 > : A SAUCERFUL OF SECRETS; see above http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000002U9Y/heartsofspace GENESIS "Hairless Heart" (extended) < 34:45->37:27 > : THE LAMB LIES DOWN ON BROADWAY; Atlantic 82677-2; 1974 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000002J1S/heartsofspace : Info: www.genesis-path.com (fan site) DAVID BOWIE "Warzsawa" (edited) < 37:27->42:24 > : LOW; Rykodisc RCD 10142; 1991; original RCA LP release: 1977 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00001OH7W/heartsofspace : Info: www.bowiewonderworld.com (fan site) YES "Awaken" (edited) < 42:24->48:35 > : GOING FOR THE ONE; Atlantic 19106-2; 1977 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000002J1H/heartsofspace : Info: www.yesworld.com STEVE HACKETT "Spectral Mornings" (edited) < 48:35->53:54 > : SPECTRAL MORNINGS; Virgin CDSCD 4017; 1989; original Charisma LP release: 1979 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000000I0P/heartsofspace : Info: www.stevehackett.com ASHRA "Mistral" (extended) < 53:54->58:20 > : SUNRAIN; Caroline CAROL 1109-2; 1996; http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000000HQE/heartsofspace originally on BELLE ALLIANCE; Virgin 202 284-320; 1980 : Info: www.ashra.com =--------------------------------------------------------------------= PRODUCED BY : STEVE DAVIS and STEPHEN HILL, with help from JOSEPH JACOBS =--------------------------------------------------------------------= SAUSALITO WEATHER : summer fog -:- pattern beta =--------------------------------------------------------------------= (c) 2001 Hearts of Space =--------------------------------------------------------------------= =--------------------------------------------------------------------= HEARTS of SPACE is available via streaming audio on the internet. Real Audio (mono) NetRadio : http://www.netradio.com/hearts MP3 (mono/stereo) WiredPlanet : http://www.listen.com NOTE: WiredPlanet is for Windows users only - no Mac support available =--------------------------------------------------------------------= To subscribe, send the word subscribe to playlist-request at hos dot com To unsubscribe, send the word unsubscribe to playlist-request at hos dot com For human help, contact the list admin at playlist-owner at hos dot com For archived playlists, visit our website at http://www.hos.com For information about our online services email info at hos dot com =--------------------------------------------------------------------= HEARTS of SPACE : P.O. BOX 31321 : SAN FRANCISO CA 94131 WEB http://www.hos.com EMAIL hos at hos dot com Timeless Music for a Changing World =--------------------------------------------------------------------= S A F E J O U R N E Y . . . =--------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:36:33 EDT From: Goathead83 at aol dot com Subject: Deja VROOOM-Soundscapes? I'm a 18 years Crimso-Fan who recently discovered a 12 minute plus Soundscape in the Deja VROOOM DVD. On side A, check out the In The Court Of King Crimson, under the title Frame By Frame, which lists the television appearences of the group, there are two icons, one which leads back to The Court and the other is the Discipline knot. When the Discipline knot is selected, it shows Robert Fripp performing Soundscapes. Cool, huh? It's seems like an outtake for the main performance. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:43:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Ben Wolfson Subject: Possibly of interest The (unfortunately no longer existent) Florida band PopCanon included on one of their albums a 1-minute slice of improvisation which begins with "Frame by Frame". They have a lot of mp3s on their website (web.popcanon.com) but not this one, so I've taken the liberty of putting it on mine (sorry about the long URL, but I wanted to preserve the information). -- Barnabas T. Rumjuggler Isn't hip hop *really* just a Eurocentric post-colonial colonization to sell more Sprite and Glocks? -- Crgre Jvyyneq ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:55:36 -0700 From: Chris Anderson Subject: Crimson/Tool Concert - Major Disadvantage i also have received the displeasure of waiting five hours this morning 6 AM to 11 AM in Eugene Oregon only to be eight people away from the ticket booth to be told "ALL SOLD OUT" there were 100+ folks behind me when we got the bad news. As a Big Crim Fan i was hurt, i took my lumps and went home. i am 48 years old and love the Crim but i have not seen them ever! i love odd meter, whole tone scales and the entire musical vocabulary of this fine act. i am crushed. Would it be possible to add an additional show here in Eugene? there are three empty dates before the show here. Perhaps some of the Crim fans in Portland could attend? Anyway life is rarely fair and i am ever thankful to even play my KC records and CD's. One lonely fan. christopher anderson - 1-541-344-7515 Eugene Oregon - Robert: Please to give me a call I was one of the Crimz'n followers who disliked KC touring with Tool bu held my piece until this morning. Here's another reason why I don't like them touring together - the damned tickets for the Portland concert sold out in an hour and I couldn't get one!!! The same happened in Seattle as well. This is especially a pisser because they didn't come to Portland for the 2000 tour. I hope RF and the boys make a shitload of bucks off this one and I hope they decide to visit the Pacific Northwest sometime...as the headliner this time! Anybody out there have a ticket you want to sell to the Portland concert? Dejectedly yours, Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:46:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Danny Anderson" Subject: Heavy ContruKction Hi, I haven't been on this list for long, but I have read from about ET #810. I have a couple of questions relating to the current KC: 1. Is the CoL KC closer to Discipline KC, or to LtIA? 2. I have read that CoL is a bit disappointing, and that Heavy C would be the better album to buy, however, (being quite new to KC) I found that Absent Lovers was not a very good introduction to the 80s sound for me, so would this recommendation still stand? 3. Is there any chance that I could get the movie part of Heavy ConstruKction to work in Linux? I am using SuSE 7.1, but I don't really know anything about animation formats. Is asf a proprietary ms format? Thank you in advance for any help/advice -Richard Hunt ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:05:40 -0400 From: Dave Subject: foot tapping... > JEF520 at aol dot com wrote: > 5. You CANNOT tap your foot to King Crimson. Why do geezers STILL not get > this?!?!? Ya know what's funny? When I saw Crim in Nashville this year, I caught myself moving pretty spiritedly to the music...then I caught myself trying to figure out which part I was moving to. Dave (I'm 34....exactly when does geezerism hit?) http://www.midnightmecca.com/ dc-et #9 http://dc-et.freeservers.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 12:16:27 EDT From: MarkJX at aol dot com Subject: Hazey Belew In a message dated 7/28/01 2:58:57 AM Mountain Daylight Time, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes: > > I'm sure the former would be great. But hey I've seen Adrian play Purple > Haze (Guitar. Player 25th anniversary show)--and he's not exactly a slouch. > When Belew was in Frank Zappa's band, Adrian was chosen to provide a "tribute" to Hendrix on the anniversary of his death. It wailed (and he did it in a dress!). MJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 17:47:53 -0400 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: Applying the "Tool" to construKct a new audience >From: Charles Dirksen >Subject: "Tool" is Right > >I was looking forward to seeing Fripp/Crimson this summer in the Bay Area, >when lo and behold, I discovered that King Crimson -- KING CRIMSON -- would >be OPENING for a band called TOOL. > >WHAT!?!?!? > >INCREDULOUS, I searched the web for information about this Tool. After >some soundfiles, I quickly ascertained that despite the genius of Fripp and >awe-inspiring musicianship of (the current form of) King Crimson, I simply >could not bring myself to pay money to go see Crimson open for -- or "share >the bill with" (if you prefer) -- Tool. Echoing the basic sentiment >of Mr. Sam Wesley, Tool sounds to me -- at best -- like a lower class >Metallica. Sigh. Yes, Charlie, Tool is no doubt inspired by Metallica to some degree. Virtually no band working in the area of heavy metal over the last 10-15 years hasn't been influenced by Metallica. But "lower class?" How is it lower class to take elements of Metallica's basic template - hardly any of which they actually "invented," BTW - and then expand upon it exponentially through the introduction of greater dynamic range, deeper emotional content, superior vocals, and the introduction of influences from proggier sources - clearly including elements borrowed from Crimson and Floyd? To me, what Tool is doing is clearly expanding upon the often simple and lower-common-denominator aspect of metal to show what the genre is capable of being with the liberal application of genuine creativity and musicality. There are a handful of other metal bands doing this, too, all in different ways: Cave In (often oversimplistically described as "Slayer meets Radiohead") and Meshuggah (furiously writhing math-metal with a guitarist deeply indebted to Allan Holdsworth) are but two others with whom Crim could comfortably share a bill. While it's a useful and ubitquitous aid these days, listening to a few random soundfiles online is not going to make the case for any band. Suppose a Tool fan wanted to find out what this Crimson band is about, and happened to download "I Talk to the Wind" or "Elephant Talk" instead of "Fracture" or "Fractured"? Would that give her or him a fair impression of the breadth of the band and the viability of the partnership? Granted, Tool has been more consistent in its approach over the years than has Crimson, arguably the most schizophrenic band in all of rock. But it's still just a roll of the dice in your scenario. >And Mr. "Johnny Romano" (at flashmail.com no less; I hope to the Lord God >Almighty that that is not your real name) A cheap personal shot that reduces the credibility of the point you're trying to make. >Then again, if one's auricular nerves have been so damaged from >hearing Tool (especially repeated listenings) that such exercise has >profoundly affected their rationality (whether it floats somewhere between >aquarium rocks and pond scum or not is beside the point; musical taste is >musical taste), then I suppose I can understand someone missing the connection. See above. >It isn't that some of us (presumably >including Mr. Wesley) can't hear the differences between Tool and other >metal bands -- even on ONE listening, much less repeated listenings. If on one listening you find the music of Tool to be completely derivative of Metallica - as you stated fairly clearly, I thought - then you have indeed missed the elements that I've found there and listed in my opening paragraph. But different strokes for different folks, I suppose. You hear it one way, I hear it another. That's fine. But you might try to be broadminded enough to allow for both possibilities to co-exist. >It's >that we think Tool's music SUCKS and think it's a damn shame that King >Crimson is OPENING for them -- or even sharing the bill with them -- >ANYWHERE. GET IT!? You're welcome to believe with absolute conviction that the music of Tool sucks, obviously. But when you misrepresent what they do based on a cursory (and apparently pre-opposed) standpoint, you're doing no one any favors in terms of advice and guidance, which undermines your own position as well. >And don't tell me Crimson is simply sharing the bill with Tool and as >professional musicians with mutual respect, they have agreed to join their >fortunes and futures together for this short little tour. I know that >already. Fripp is also, quite obviously, trying to reach new audiences with whom he thinks Crimson will have a resonance, based on the tastes and practices of the headlining bands themselves. In the case of the HORDE tour a few years ago - cause for far greater scandal on this list than Tool has inspired - Fripp was clearly noting that several jam bands had indicated a liking for (and indebtedness to) certain aspects of Crimson, which led him to surmise that those aspects of Crimson might appeal to the audiences for those bands, as well. How else is Crimson going to expand its audience beyond the trickle of newcomers that we, the small but devoted core Crim audience, can bring to the band ourselves through word-of-mouth and physically holding people down and forcing them to listen? Precisely the same impulse holds true in the present case. Tool has mentioned Crimson as an influence - it probably isn't and needn't be their primary influence, but to this listener it's a very clearly apparent influence in some material, if less so in other material. Fripp clearly hears the causal connection here again, and has rightly seized upon an opportunity to see if Tool's audience can be broadminded enough to embrace Crimson themselves. Again, how else is Crim - lacking TV, radio and widespread print support - supposed to get its music in front of a new audience? If a handful of Tool's massive fan base actually deigns to listen to the opening act (and that's never guaranteed - I saw countless Roxy Music fans standing around in the lobby during Rufus Wainwright's fine opening set last Monday, only to flood in when he finished) and comes away with an appreciation for Crimson that translates into future record and ticket sales, then he's achieved his goal. >And IMO it's an insult to Crimson's VASTLY >SUPERIOR art to open for Tool. I'm sure that it was an "insult" for Jimi Hendrix to open for the Monkees, too, but it doesn't seem to have had any effect on posterity's view of his achievements. Clearly Fripp's not going to have much luck convincing hardcore Crim fans that they might embrace Tool as well - we're clearly too scandalized that "our" band, which we know to be superior to any other band currently practicing and why can't the dolts all just see this, would deign to OPEN for another, lesser band (and aren't they ALL lesser, anyway?)... Look, feel free to ignore the shows with Tool. That's your perogative. You know that Crimson will be back sooner or later, anyway, and they'll play an 80 or 90 minute set unsullied by the presence of some hack metal band. You can get your fix of what you missed through those "stealth tapes" that will no doubt soon be in circulation, since it's unlikely that Fripp will be able to police a Tool show as thoroughly as he does his own. OR you might even deign to be a bit more open-minded, go enjoy Crimson's 50 minute opening set (holy coitus interuptus, Batman!), and then perhaps hear something in Tool that you might have missed in your downloads. Stranger things have happened. Whatever the case, you might at least try to refrain from a knee-jerk oversimplification and reduction of what Tool actually achieves in its music. You don't like it? Fine. Lots of others here are clearly with you on that. But your description of Tool's music is a misguided and frankly silly slap in the face to those of us who appreciate what they do - including the members of our revered King Crimson, who, I'll bet, are plenty pleased to be out there sharing the stage with such a serious-minded and progressive young band, and getting a crack at its audience as well. Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com NP - Tool, "Reflection," 'Lateralus' (Volcano) (following hot on the heels of Giles, Giles & Fripp, 'Metaphormosis'... both of them REAL LOUD, and clearly damaging my capacity to discern good music...) ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #863 ********************************