Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #862 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 862 Friday, 27 July 2001 Today's Topics: Acoustic guitar: Lake or Fripp? Rovo & diary entries Beyond, The - Possible Influence on Tool - Possibly influenced by KC extra tracks CENTROZOON: Promo CD Giveaway! Rovo & diary entries Beyond, The - Possible Influence on Tool - Possibly influenced by KC extra tracks Acoustic guitar: Lake or Fripp? CENTROZOON: Promo CD Giveaway! Rovo & diary entries Beyond, The - Possible Influence on Tool - Possibly influenced by KC extra tracks Opening leg of KC tour tonight in Cincy Hidden CD Tracks Re: Hidden CD tracks George Harrison "related" to Crimson? e talk post "Tool" is Right complaints of the tour Re: BPM&M I saw the boys last night Greg Lake in Ringo Starr Band Subject: Fripp and Hendrix/ now Adrian's no slouch Correction - (+ 6 degrees of personal connections) I seem to recall talking to the wind... Heavy ConstruKction Re: LP Trivia GIG REVIEW: 7/23 in Cincinnati GIG REVIEW: KC @ Bogart's, Cincinnati Ohio, 7-23-2001 GIG REVIEW: Cincinnati ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:28:56 -0700 From: Robert MacCoun Subject: Acoustic guitar: Lake or Fripp? Timoty Gueguen (ET #859) raised the possibility that Epitath's acoustic guitar is by Greg Lake rather than Fripp. I think it probably is Fripp -- the guitar tone and style just isn't that different on Lizard sans Lake. (As I recall, the live versions are ambiguous. Lake is playing bass, and Fripp mostly chose to reproduce a smattering of both the electric and the acoustic parts.) Still, it's worth noting that Lake's "The Sage" on ELP's Pictures at an Exhibition reproduces almost verbatim several key acoustic passages from the song "ITCotCK." It is so blatant that I can't help thinking Lake must've felt he authored them. (Does anyone know more about this?) And at the risk of prompting flames, Fripp is such a sacred cow on ET that I can't resist opining that his later acoustic playing on the crafty guitar albums is, to my ears, dreadful. The Crafty Guitar period brought us Trey Gunn and the CGT, and I don't dispute for a moment that the CG courses were immensely valuable for the participants. But despite impeccable technique and blazing speed, Fripp's performances on the Ovation guitar sound like a plucked tennis racket. Part of the problem is that the Ovation seems to sustain so poorly, and Fripp's most lyrical playing is heavily legato. But a player like Steve Tibbetts somehow manages to get rich and deep sustain and depth out of an acoustic. Presumably, Fripp wanted a staccato sound. Very '80s, the era of pointy shoes and pointy hair. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 15:38:57 EDT From: Mikewyz at aol dot com Subject: Rovo & diary entries - saw a group called Rovo live last night. Pretty amazing bunch of improv and prog sounds; to me it brought to mind a contemporary Happy the Man, Soft Machine, Brand X type thing. maybe not unlike Ozric Tentacles but more original and interesting sounding IMHO. here's the description, from www.tonic107.com (website of the club they played at) "Rovo: Japanese underground supergroup. Rovo is centered on the duo of guitarist Yamamoto Seiichi (also of The Boredoms) and electric violinist Katsui Yuji (Bondage Fruit, Demi Semi Quaver), joined by bass, keyboards and electronics, turntables, two drummers and an array of traditional percussion, gongs, and wind instruments. On record, and onstage during their mind-blowing live performances, Rovo brings these ingredients together to create a rich sonic stew comprising elements of Kraut-rock, indie space-rock, dub, trance, techno, and jam-oriented psychedelic drum-circle freak-out. Rovo's debut release, "Imago" was recently released on the Incidental Music label out of San Francisco. These concerts are being recorded for a live release on Tzadik." I think it's something a crimhead would get into. also, would anyone have Fripp diary entries for the June 30 - July 5 period? send 'em hither (mikewyz at aol dot com) if so and I'll be much appreciative. MW ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 15:51:16 From: "David Reilly" Subject: Beyond, The - Possible Influence on Tool - Possibly influenced by KC After all the discussion in E Talk re Tool I bought their album Lateralus yesterday and it's fine and dandy and impressive in comparison with the majority of white metal rap music now known as Nu Metal. But it's hardly ground breaking. I'd never heard a note of Tool until yesterday but as soon as the laser hit the disc I was reminded of an unsung band from the early nineties that Crimso and Tool fans may wish to explore. They were called The Beyond and, forget King Crimson influences on Tool, the Beyond's two albums Crawl (Harvest/EMI CDSHSP) (1991) and Chasm (Music For Nations/Harvest CDMFN147) (1993) could have been early recordings by the T band. For all this, I do like the Tool album but feel if any Tool fans are dropping in on our E-Talk that they try and check out The Beyond. For Crimso fans, I seem to remember when Crawl was released, several reviewers made comarisons between the band and Red era KC. The music is a lot faster but if you get the chance to hear it you'll notice the drummer's Brufordesque qualities, right up to using the famous tight Bruford snare sound on the first album. Another band to consider giving a listen to is Dark Star, coincidently also recording on EMI's resurrected Harvest label. David Reilly Crispycat Recordings ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:04:44 +0100 From: "phill lister" Subject: extra tracks Hello All! One All-Time-Classic Extra Track... In the early 70s punk thing in the UK there were loads of records made by enthusiastic bands of variable/unstable talent (Wire, The Fall, X-Ray Spex, Jilted John, Spizz Energi). One of my favourites was Johnny Moped, who did some outrageously funny and crass songs like "Incendiary Device" which was about blowing up one's female partner with explosives. There were a couple of endearing points about them... 1. They were crap 2. Their guitarist admired Alan Holdsworth and tried to play like him but in a naive punk style (challenging!) 3. Johnny's wife didn't like him playing in a band and ended his musical career by having him kidnapped before their last gig and having him locked in the boot of a car to stop him appearing 4. There was a "hidden track" (two grooves) at the end of the second side of their album, where the Holdsworth influences were allowed to reign free to amusing effect The League of Gentlemen seemed to fit into this world quite nicely... Phill ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:25:31 +0100 From: "Lee Fletcher" Subject: CENTROZOON: Promo CD Giveaway! Dear ETers, Here's the latest news from (DGM artist) Markus Reuter & Bernhard Wostheinrich (aka CENTROZOON): - - - - - CENTROZOON are giving away 100 free copies of the Limited Edition CD: The Divine Beast! This rare Promo CD contains 20+ minutes of new material culled from the much anticipated album - The Cult Of: Bibbiboo. Housed in a beautifully designed cardboard sleeve, the disc comes complete with a cool self-adhesive Bibbiboo sticker! This is a time limited offer (running from 20th July - 20th August) supplying applicants on a first-come first-served basis. To register your claim simply visit www.centrozoon.de/giveaway while stocks last. In other CENTROZOON news: Further to the success of this month's remix launch @ www.mp3.com/fletchertronics & www.mp3.com/centrozoon a second mix (by Ian Boddy) has now been uploaded to MP3.com. In addition to the above URLs a special Remix Station has been created to house these and future CENTROZOON interpretations: www.mp3.com/stations/bibbibooremixes Finally, the enhanced reissue of Sun Lounge Debris is now set for late September on Burning Shed Records. Watch www.burningshed.com for further news. Best wishes, Lee Fletcher (on behalf of CENTROZOON) www.centrozoon.de www.bibbiboo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 15:38:57 EDT From: Mikewyz at aol dot com Subject: Rovo & diary entries - saw a group called Rovo live last night. Pretty amazing bunch of improv and prog sounds; to me it brought to mind a contemporary Happy the Man, Soft Machine, Brand X type thing. maybe not unlike Ozric Tentacles but more original and interesting sounding IMHO. here's the description, from www.tonic107.com (website of the club they played at) "Rovo: Japanese underground supergroup. Rovo is centered on the duo of guitarist Yamamoto Seiichi (also of The Boredoms) and electric violinist Katsui Yuji (Bondage Fruit, Demi Semi Quaver), joined by bass, keyboards and electronics, turntables, two drummers and an array of traditional percussion, gongs, and wind instruments. On record, and onstage during their mind-blowing live performances, Rovo brings these ingredients together to create a rich sonic stew comprising elements of Kraut-rock, indie space-rock, dub, trance, techno, and jam-oriented psychedelic drum-circle freak-out. Rovo's debut release, "Imago" was recently released on the Incidental Music label out of San Francisco. These concerts are being recorded for a live release on Tzadik." I think it's something a crimhead would get into. also, would anyone have Fripp diary entries for the June 30 - July 5 period? send 'em hither (mikewyz at aol dot com) if so and I'll be much appreciative. MW ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 15:51:16 From: "David Reilly" Subject: Beyond, The - Possible Influence on Tool - Possibly influenced by KC After all the discussion in E Talk re Tool I bought their album Lateralus yesterday and it's fine and dandy and impressive in comparison with the majority of white metal rap music now known as Nu Metal. But it's hardly ground breaking. I'd never heard a note of Tool until yesterday but as soon as the laser hit the disc I was reminded of an unsung band from the early nineties that Crimso and Tool fans may wish to explore. They were called The Beyond and, forget King Crimson influences on Tool, the Beyond's two albums Crawl (Harvest/EMI CDSHSP) (1991) and Chasm (Music For Nations/Harvest CDMFN147) (1993) could have been early recordings by the T band. For all this, I do like the Tool album but feel if any Tool fans are dropping in on our E-Talk that they try and check out The Beyond. For Crimso fans, I seem to remember when Crawl was released, several reviewers made comarisons between the band and Red era KC. The music is a lot faster but if you get the chance to hear it you'll notice the drummer's Brufordesque qualities, right up to using the famous tight Bruford snare sound on the first album. Another band to consider giving a listen to is Dark Star, coincidently also recording on EMI's resurrected Harvest label. David Reilly Crispycat Recordings ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:04:44 +0100 From: "phill lister" Subject: extra tracks Hello All! One All-Time-Classic Extra Track... In the early 70s punk thing in the UK there were loads of records made by enthusiastic bands of variable/unstable talent (Wire, The Fall, X-Ray Spex, Jilted John, Spizz Energi). One of my favourites was Johnny Moped, who did some outrageously funny and crass songs like "Incendiary Device" which was about blowing up one's female partner with explosives. There were a couple of endearing points about them... 1. They were crap 2. Their guitarist admired Alan Holdsworth and tried to play like him but in a naive punk style (challenging!) 3. Johnny's wife didn't like him playing in a band and ended his musical career by having him kidnapped before their last gig and having him locked in the boot of a car to stop him appearing 4. There was a "hidden track" (two grooves) at the end of the second side of their album, where the Holdsworth influences were allowed to reign free to amusing effect The League of Gentlemen seemed to fit into this world quite nicely... Phill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:28:56 -0700 From: Robert MacCoun Subject: Acoustic guitar: Lake or Fripp? Timoty Gueguen (ET #859) raised the possibility that Epitath's acoustic guitar is by Greg Lake rather than Fripp. I think it probably is Fripp -- the guitar tone and style just isn't that different on Lizard sans Lake. (As I recall, the live versions are ambiguous. Lake is playing bass, and Fripp mostly chose to reproduce a smattering of both the electric and the acoustic parts.) Still, it's worth noting that Lake's "The Sage" on ELP's Pictures at an Exhibition reproduces almost verbatim several key acoustic passages from the song "ITCotCK." It is so blatant that I can't help thinking Lake must've felt he authored them. (Does anyone know more about this?) And at the risk of prompting flames, Fripp is such a sacred cow on ET that I can't resist opining that his later acoustic playing on the crafty guitar albums is, to my ears, dreadful. The Crafty Guitar period brought us Trey Gunn and the CGT, and I don't dispute for a moment that the CG courses were immensely valuable for the participants. But despite impeccable technique and blazing speed, Fripp's performances on the Ovation guitar sound like a plucked tennis racket. Part of the problem is that the Ovation seems to sustain so poorly, and Fripp's most lyrical playing is heavily legato. But a player like Steve Tibbetts somehow manages to get rich and deep sustain and depth out of an acoustic. Presumably, Fripp wanted a staccato sound. Very '80s, the era of pointy shoes and pointy hair. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:25:31 +0100 From: "Lee Fletcher" Subject: CENTROZOON: Promo CD Giveaway! Dear ETers, Here's the latest news from (DGM artist) Markus Reuter & Bernhard Wostheinrich (aka CENTROZOON): - - - - - CENTROZOON are giving away 100 free copies of the Limited Edition CD: The Divine Beast! This rare Promo CD contains 20+ minutes of new material culled from the much anticipated album - The Cult Of: Bibbiboo. Housed in a beautifully designed cardboard sleeve, the disc comes complete with a cool self-adhesive Bibbiboo sticker! This is a time limited offer (running from 20th July - 20th August) supplying applicants on a first-come first-served basis. To register your claim simply visit www.centrozoon.de/giveaway while stocks last. In other CENTROZOON news: Further to the success of this month's remix launch @ www.mp3.com/fletchertronics & www.mp3.com/centrozoon a second mix (by Ian Boddy) has now been uploaded to MP3.com. In addition to the above URLs a special Remix Station has been created to house these and future CENTROZOON interpretations: www.mp3.com/stations/bibbibooremixes Finally, the enhanced reissue of Sun Lounge Debris is now set for late September on Burning Shed Records. Watch www.burningshed.com for further news. Best wishes, Lee Fletcher (on behalf of CENTROZOON) www.centrozoon.de www.bibbiboo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 15:38:57 EDT From: Mikewyz at aol dot com Subject: Rovo & diary entries - saw a group called Rovo live last night. Pretty amazing bunch of improv and prog sounds; to me it brought to mind a contemporary Happy the Man, Soft Machine, Brand X type thing. maybe not unlike Ozric Tentacles but more original and interesting sounding IMHO. here's the description, from www.tonic107.com (website of the club they played at) "Rovo: Japanese underground supergroup. Rovo is centered on the duo of guitarist Yamamoto Seiichi (also of The Boredoms) and electric violinist Katsui Yuji (Bondage Fruit, Demi Semi Quaver), joined by bass, keyboards and electronics, turntables, two drummers and an array of traditional percussion, gongs, and wind instruments. On record, and onstage during their mind-blowing live performances, Rovo brings these ingredients together to create a rich sonic stew comprising elements of Kraut-rock, indie space-rock, dub, trance, techno, and jam-oriented psychedelic drum-circle freak-out. Rovo's debut release, "Imago" was recently released on the Incidental Music label out of San Francisco. These concerts are being recorded for a live release on Tzadik." I think it's something a crimhead would get into. also, would anyone have Fripp diary entries for the June 30 - July 5 period? send 'em hither (mikewyz at aol dot com) if so and I'll be much appreciative. MW ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 15:51:16 From: "David Reilly" Subject: Beyond, The - Possible Influence on Tool - Possibly influenced by KC After all the discussion in E Talk re Tool I bought their album Lateralus yesterday and it's fine and dandy and impressive in comparison with the majority of white metal rap music now known as Nu Metal. But it's hardly ground breaking. I'd never heard a note of Tool until yesterday but as soon as the laser hit the disc I was reminded of an unsung band from the early nineties that Crimso and Tool fans may wish to explore. They were called The Beyond and, forget King Crimson influences on Tool, the Beyond's two albums Crawl (Harvest/EMI CDSHSP) (1991) and Chasm (Music For Nations/Harvest CDMFN147) (1993) could have been early recordings by the T band. For all this, I do like the Tool album but feel if any Tool fans are dropping in on our E-Talk that they try and check out The Beyond. For Crimso fans, I seem to remember when Crawl was released, several reviewers made comarisons between the band and Red era KC. The music is a lot faster but if you get the chance to hear it you'll notice the drummer's Brufordesque qualities, right up to using the famous tight Bruford snare sound on the first album. Another band to consider giving a listen to is Dark Star, coincidently also recording on EMI's resurrected Harvest label. David Reilly Crispycat Recordings ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:04:44 +0100 From: "phill lister" Subject: extra tracks Hello All! One All-Time-Classic Extra Track... In the early 70s punk thing in the UK there were loads of records made by enthusiastic bands of variable/unstable talent (Wire, The Fall, X-Ray Spex, Jilted John, Spizz Energi). One of my favourites was Johnny Moped, who did some outrageously funny and crass songs like "Incendiary Device" which was about blowing up one's female partner with explosives. There were a couple of endearing points about them... 1. They were crap 2. Their guitarist admired Alan Holdsworth and tried to play like him but in a naive punk style (challenging!) 3. Johnny's wife didn't like him playing in a band and ended his musical career by having him kidnapped before their last gig and having him locked in the boot of a car to stop him appearing 4. There was a "hidden track" (two grooves) at the end of the second side of their album, where the Holdsworth influences were allowed to reign free to amusing effect The League of Gentlemen seemed to fit into this world quite nicely... Phill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:38:51 -0400 From: "Weimer, Gary" Subject: Opening leg of KC tour tonight in Cincy Surprisingly, I haven't been here in a while. Also curious that there is no date listed for KC at Bogart's in Cincinnati tonight (July 23). I'm going - hope to see ya there. I'll try to post a gig review. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:09:27 -0400 From: "James E.Tykoliz" Subject: Hidden CD Tracks Grayfolded, a 2 CD set of Grateful Dead's Dark Star, reconfigured by John Oswald to sound like one single performance even though it contains live excerpts from over 25 years of a very rarely played spacey song. Part 2 contains the entire hour-long part 1 folded 16,384 times into a 12 second "whoosh." There is also a hidden piece before track 1, as well as short, hidden transformations between each song. PEACE, Jim. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 01:06:39 +0200 From: Rolf Klausen Subject: Re: Hidden CD tracks Quoting Joe Funk & Tom: > >Does anyone knows of other cds with this clever type of bonus tracks? > > Yes! "The X-Files - Songs In The Key Of X" has two songs before song number > one. > > Tom > And "Blissard" by the norwegian band Motorpsycho has one. Motorpsycho are by the way somewhat inspired by KC (well, 70s KC that is), and they have done both "21st century schizoid man" & "Starless" live. I think Motorpsycho would be interesting to many KC fans. check http://motorpsycho.fix.no/ for more information. (Or mail me! :) - Motorpsycho can be described as progrock, but they can also be put into many other genres... (they started as some kind of progressive heavy metal band, continued with progrock of some sort, they have made an entire country album, played together with a free-jazz group, they have made a very pop-ish album etc. - a lot of different stuff, all of it great music!) - They're not well known in America yet, but if someone from i.e. Germany or Italy or Netherlands read this, they probably know what band i'm talking about. Rolf Klausen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:19:59 EDT From: Pomersley at aol dot com Subject: George Harrison "related" to Crimson? Dan, The connection is even closer than you know...Ian Wallace played on the "Traveling Wilburys" album with George Harrison. How do I know? I'm looking at the platinum record on my wall as we speak. Best, Margie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:05:41 -0700 From: "jennifer bescherer" Subject: e talk post Greetings! Please post to ele tlk.. Warr guitar for sale!! ADG 8 string touch style guitar walnut/body/neck,wenge/fingerboard w deluxe gigbag/slider strap pics @ : www.austindouglasguitars.com (bottom right) car repairs forces sale : ( 1100. obo Dan sidewalksoup at att dot net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:23:53 -0700 From: Charles Dirksen Subject: "Tool" is Right I was looking forward to seeing Fripp/Crimson this summer in the Bay Area, when lo and behold, I discovered that King Crimson -- KING CRIMSON -- would be OPENING for a band called TOOL. WHAT!?!?!? INCREDULOUS, I searched the web for information about this Tool. After some soundfiles, I quickly ascertained that despite the genius of Fripp and awe-inspiring musicianship of (the current form of) King Crimson, I simply could not bring myself to pay money to go see Crimson open for -- or "share the bill with" (if you prefer) -- Tool. Echoing the basic sentiment of Mr. Sam Wesley, Tool sounds to me -- at best -- like a lower class Metallica. And Mr. "Johnny Romano" (at flashmail.com no less; I hope to the Lord God Almighty that that is not your real name) , when you told Mr. Wesley that he had "Obviously [ ] never really listened to any metallica before", I couldn't help but laugh. Tool is -- generally speaking -- to Metallica what [insert name of band who plays original songs yet sounds very suspiciously like the Grateful Dead] is to the Grateful Dead. Tool's connection to Metallica and metal bands of its ilk is so profoundly obvious that one would have to be a tool -- or at least deaf as a post -- not to hear it. Then again, if one's auricular nerves have been so damaged from hearing Tool (especially repeated listenings) that such exercise has profoundly affected their rationality (whether it floats somewhere between aquarium rocks and pond scum or not is beside the point; musical taste is musical taste), then I suppose I can understand someone missing the connection. But when, Mr. Romano, you told Mr. Wesley to "listen to a little more Tool . . . stress[ing] the importance of getting to know the songs through repeated listening.", I was urged to actually come out of Lurkdom and write. Were you !#$&@ serious? It isn't that some of us (presumably including Mr. Wesley) can't hear the differences between Tool and other metal bands -- even on ONE listening, much less repeated listenings. It's that we think Tool's music SUCKS and think it's a damn shame that King Crimson is OPENING for them -- or even sharing the bill with them -- ANYWHERE. GET IT!? And don't tell me Crimson is simply sharing the bill with Tool and as professional musicians with mutual respect, they have agreed to join their fortunes and futures together for this short little tour. I know that already. But if Crimson -- KING CRIMSON -- plays first and for only an hour or so (say, at the Berkeley Community Theater), as far as I'm concerned, that's opening. And IMO it's an insult to Crimson's VASTLY SUPERIOR art to open for Tool. I suppose Fripp must disagree -- how else would he DEIGN to "share the bill" with, and/or even arguably open for, Tool? But I respectfully disagree with the decision to do any part of a tour with Tool. (and though I know I'm not alone, I realize this is likely a minority view, since, christ, we see so little of Crimson and we should LEAP at EVERY CHANCE for the privilege of seeing them... particularly those of us in the bay area.. we only got those Fillmore shows last Fall.. woe is us.. sniff sniff.. ;-) ... and Lord Knows we wish we could see Crimson every weekend, since we have so few other phenomenally talented musicians to see and hear each weekend... GUFFAW) Have a blast at the Berkeley shows, folks... I'll just get the stealth tapes. 8^} two cents, charlie "just kidding with that last remark... wanted to inspire some hate mail from Fripp.." dirksen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:23:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Burch Subject: complaints of the tour Ok, I'm mad now. Not just mad, but real mad. King Crimson is my number one all time favorite band for the obvious reasons, and they haven't been to the Denver area since I became a fan. I've been waiting around for years, and finally, to my disbelief, they set up two concerts in the Denver area!!! WOW!!! So, I mosey on in to buy tickets to the Red Rocks show with KC and Tool, but they were sold out in 15 minutes. I would love to see Tool in concert, but KC was the real attraction in my mind. So, no big deal, I then tried to buy tickets to the KC without Tool in Boulder. But, what's this? Oh, It's a 21 AND OVER CONCERT!!!!! I'M 20!!!!! THIS IS SO REDICULOUS!!!! I can't believe it fellow fans. I am incredibley disappointed in everything and life right now. So, anyway, I am here to ask people in the Denver area to help me get into the concert. I am in search of someone that works at the Fox theatre, or maybe someone that is very skilled at making fake IDs, you know, whatever, but I have got to see KC this year! If not, I'm going to be spending the next five years insanely disappointed until the next time they come. Damn, this sucks. Oh, and to adress the discussion between Sam and Johnny, I need to take Sam's side. First of all, it's not "obvious" either way, and for someone to make the other sound stupid just to make yourself look smarter... well, the people here are too inteligent to fall for that, that's all I'll say. Also, I still don't feel the KC influence is "obvious". True, there are some irregular beats, and there are some good lickes in cooperation between the bass and guitar, and KC are experts at that, but KC isn't the only band that uses those techniques. I find the Tool CD incredible, a very well written album to say the least, but I can hardly compare it in my mind to anything KC has ever done. As for Metallica (boring) I don't think Tool sounds like KC OR Metallica at all. In fact, I think out of the three, Metallica and KC are more similar than Tool is to either. Oh, did I mention I'm not 21 yet? Does that suck? Yes, yes it does. Now, if you don't mind, I'm just going to be drowning in my cat food, cat food, cat food again. ===== Peace out! Brian Brianman3 at yahoo dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:30:10 +0100 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: Re: BPM&M In ET #860 "Cameron Devlin" wrote: > It's got a very Project 3 "Masque" style to it.. heavily processed, very > drum 'n' bass actually. As expected really. Go to http://www.papabear.com to > order it, and do so RIGHT NOW It's fun, fast and furious, but if you think Krim "stopped" in 1974 or similar you'd probably hate it. I like it lots, and further note the artwork (most of which can be found online) is an absolute masterwork: one of those things you can look at for ages finding new details that had previously not registered. Great fun, just like the CD. > I also order the new CGT Direct release, Live at the Key Club with > Mastelotto and Levin. I haven't listened to that yet, but heard Heart of the > Sunrise over the internet.. was very good. I picked up that too... good stuff, even better on a "proper" playback system of course. The version of Discipline is IMHO a real cracker. Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:43:51 -0400 (EDT) From: mNor at webtv dot net (Ron Melson) Subject: I saw the boys last night The show was sold out (1500) and the place rocked. This was my 6th time seeing them and they played hard edge rock and roll . Dont miss this show ! They debut 4 new songs that will be on the next CD Adrian also said they will be back to Cinti. after they release the new CD. Robert (Mr cool) sat stage left in the dark . As I'm sure you know this is a homecomming for Stevie Belew or as he now is Adrian at the club I saw him last night right across the street he used to play every Thurs. night. I've been listing to KC forever and enjoy this direction alot. If you see this tour enjoy the show I'm sure you will. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:44:37 -0400 From: jrkarbunkle at netscape dot net (Junior Karbunkle) Subject: Greg Lake in Ringo Starr Band Freaks and Hairies, Here's the lineup for this summer's Ringo's Allstar Band quoted from a local paper: Sheila E.; Howard Jones; Greg Lake of Emerson, Lake and Palmer; Mott the Hoople's Ian Hunter; and Supertramp's Roger Hodgson." I got my tix for the show here in Podunk. Maybe they'll play Schizoid man. That would be so freaken cool. Later all, JR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:31:27 From: "Spear man" Subject: Subject: Fripp and Hendrix/ now Adrian's no slouch >How would Fripp and Hendrix together sound? Probably amazing, but why not Fripp and Bill Nelson at least he's still alive!< I'm sure the former would be great. But hey I've seen Adrian play Purple Haze (Guitar. Player 25th anniversary show)--and he's not exactly a slouch. And Adrian was pretty cool when he played with Stanley Clarke and Stewart Copeland 11/15/86--Warfield Theatre San Francisco--Music in the Movies Mill Valley Film Festival benefit. --spearman (who's got the tapes for these?) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:50:06 -0500 From: "kevin" Subject: Fripp and Hendrix Actually, "Warner Bros. presents >Montrose!" which was released in 1975 - was the 3rd Montrose album, not the 1st. It was the first Montrose album minus Hagar. The first is titled "Montrose" and is a rock classic w/Hagar. Highlights: Rock Candy, Bad Motor-Scooter, Space Station #9 (or something like that). The 2nd Montrose album also included Hagar and is titled "Paper Money"; good album. None are in the same class or genre as anything by KC. But it did serve to remind me to go and buy that first Montrose album for my cd collection. The first concert I ever attended was Edger Winter and the band featured Ronnie Montrose and Rick Derringer on guitars. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:48:08 -0400 From: "Michael Blaschka" Subject: Correction - (+ 6 degrees of personal connections) >From: Jim Bailey >Subject: Re: Peter Sinfield's "Still" > > Scott Cooper (not Mel), wrote: > >>[snip] In fact, I seem to recall a version of "I Talk to the Wind" >>with >>redone vocals (same music). Wasn't McDonald and both Giles brothers on >>it? > >The version of ITttW you're thinking of was "Flight of the Ibis," which >actually uses the original music for that song according to the notes in >the "McDonald and Giles" LP from whence it came. I guess I've also just >answered your last question. Sinfield does contribute to this album, >though; lyrics for the track "Birdman." > >A wonderful thing, the human memory. ;-) Memory is indeed a wonderful thing, Jim, but I think you're going to regret having pointed that out. I will surely not be the only one to point out that the version of "I Talk to the Wind" to which Scott is referring can be found on the 1975 two-LP Crimson anthology 'A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson.' It was recorded in 1968 by Giles, Giles & Fripp; by then, Ian McDonald had begun rehearsing with the group, as had, for a time, his girlfriend, Judy Dyble. Ms. Dyble is the vocalist on the version Scott recalls - not a remake, but a precursor which does indeed include both Giles boys. There's yet another pre-Crim version of the song on the much-discussed current bootleg LP 'Metaphomosis,' this one sung by Ian, from the same period and provenance. (There actually are a few genuine remakes of the tune, as well - including one on the 'Schizoid Dimension' Crimson tribute CD - but those versions obviously doesn't include the Giles brothers.) The song which McDonald and Giles later reworked into "Flight of the Ibis" was actually "Cadence and Cascade," as revealed by the liner notes you've misremembered yourself. Hoping this was the gentlest of rebukes, Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com (still basking in the reflected glow of last night's Roxy Music show... if only Fripp could locate Bryan Ferry's audition tape! Now there's a Collector's Club candidate...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:28:17 +0700 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: I seem to recall talking to the wind... Umm.... sorry to bring up this silly question again guys.. but how could I play the Heavy ConstruKction video on my Mac? I do not think that I could obtain the records until recently... Could anybody just pinpoint me to some url or something to make my life more bright? Thank you in advance. Salam Sakral! Reza! ----------------- Destruction is not negative, you must destroy to build -Einsturzende Neubauten ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 00:19:58 EDT From: Xenantaya Subject: Heavy ConstruKction My apologies for being behind the times on this one, but have been travelling and am just now catching up on old newsletters. The answer to the question posed is, of course, that an LP has only one groove per side. At least most of the time. If anyone out there has an LP copy of Monty Python's "Matching Tie and Handkerchief" you will remember that one side has TWO parallel grooves with two parallel soundtracks, each different. The one you get is randomly selected by how the needle lands. I've never encountered this trick/joke on any other LP - has any one else? Now, just to add some KC content to this post, it was a treat to get the latest KC Club release, Berkeley, 1982. I was actually at that show, and it's nice to get this souvenier, even if almost 20 years after the fact. I remember the show as described in the notes - outdoors on a warm summer evening. No fog - a rareity that time of year in the SF bay area. Cheers, Jesse Fisher ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:42:15 -0400 From: JEF520 at aol dot com Subject: Re: LP Trivia Well, here's the report on the first night of the King Crimson tour. First things first: 1. Middle-aged people are FAR ruder in general admission arenas than young people 2. It's funny watching a table of geezers wax nostalgic about their favorite bands while C.C. DeVille (guitarist for Poison) sits next to them virtually unnoticed. 3. As I expected, the room filled up strangely - Tool crowd immediately to the front, geezers immediately to the back (where some seating had been set up). 4. Adrian Belew is playing barefoot. 5. You CANNOT tap your foot to King Crimson. Why do geezers STILL not get this?!?!? I don't think I've ever witnessed an UN-mosh pit before! The crowd literally watched in awe for much of the show. This line-up is simply incredible. After all the years, I've reached the following conclusions: King Crimson (and/or Robert Fripp) LOVES to feature percussion in a live setting. Pat Mastoletto is a monster. Imagine, if you will, someone who gets up and adjusts his kit during a short interlude of a song. This ain't 4/4 people - give the man some respect! Robert Fripp is more comfortable being in the captain's chair than in the spotlight. In true tradition, he was seated, facing sideways, and unlit for the entire performance. But you DEFINITELY heard him. No more mellotrons - he appears to have pulled those sounds into his guitar banks. A great show overall. Mesmerizing. A bit of old, a bit of new, and something that Adrian described as "something we're going to work up in front of you". KC has the most incredible stage dynamics - BAR NONE. If you thought that Tony Levin was a powerhouse, dominant bass player, then look out for Trey Gunn. He's a sinewy, fluid Warr master. I can hear Fat Bastard now - "He's a S-E-X-Y mon....". They stumbled a bit on "Prozac Blues" - but this is not your typical train wreck (as Adrian alluded to near the end of the night). In KC, a train wreck is one car slipping off the rails, and the only way out is to put it right as it's in motion. This is no easy feat, but they did it. The only real clue was Belew turning to face Mastoletto, and then turn around smirking. I even took my daughter, who enjoyed the show. The show was advertised as the Nouveau Metal tour, so who knows? Adrian mentioned that one untitled piece they played was in preparation for the new album, but didn't elaborate. Among the songs they played were: Red, Frame by Frame, Dinosaur, Prozac Blues, Into The Frying Pan, Lark's Tongue in Aspic Pt.4, Coda X, and a few instrumentals that were either improvs or developing pieces. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:34:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Weimer, Gary" Subject: GIG REVIEW: 7/23 in Cincinnati Whew. What heat. The ceiling fans at Bogart's didn't have a chance Monday night, though from time to time a slight breeze slid in and around the sweaty bodies of T-shirt clad concertgoers packed in front of a cramped stage. Being a vertically-challenged fellow, I parked myself just to the right of a family of folks who were all a head taller than I (they "weren't from around here" - European I think). Anyway, I mostly had good sight lines to each musician but Fripp, and when the crowd swayed properly I could watch him as well. Despite Bogart's being dark, dank, and cramped (imagine how different tonight's show at the Tennessee Theatre will be), I'll take an Evening with King Crimson there, within an easy drive of my small town, to no KC at all, after six years of "just missing". The evening began with a Rising Tumescence, bringing to mind Ravel's Bolero (seems this has been described by others also). This piece was worth the price of admission...almost a perfect tension-builder. They then launched into "Construkction" and we were hooked. Sorry, my dissertation-writing brain has no room in it for a complete setlist, but after tCoL came at least the following (no exact order): New Material (yes, it's quite heavy) Fractured Frying Pan Frame by Frame (real crowd pleaser) Red (ditto) Dinosaur (again ditto, enjoyed it in spite of myself) Lark's Four (no vocals on Coda) Prozac Blues I find I can't recall which of these tunes, or some other, closed the set. Encores: Deception of the Thrush New Material - take tCoL, Fractured, Larks Four; slice and dice, then fold, spindle, and mutilate them, fold into a heavy, often straight-ahead framework then away we go Thela Hun Ginjeet There was at least one more improv or possible "Nouveau Metal" piece. "Deception" was still more powerful and inventive than I've heard previously. Thela was especially rousing, re-invigorating the heat-drained crowd. We wanted more after that, and some were disappointed, but really, they gave us quite a show. With the heat, and being the first show of this part of the tour, Belew in particular could have backed off but no - he put his all into it. I was especially impressed with his vocals on "Frame by Frame", guitar work on "Larks". Gunn makes everything from his "groove enhancements" to the tightest doubling of Fripp's rips look effortless - I swear he didn't break a sweat until the encore. Pat was a mountain of mayhem on the kit, working hard but flashing smiles from time to time - and interestingly, seemed small and shy when out from behind it. Fripp was Fripp - imperturbable, great economy of motion, discipline. They were on top of the game despite the environment, which I greatly appreciated. And my wife appreciated that I didn't come home smelling like a chimney sweep ;^). - Stephen Carl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:53:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Stephen P. Carl" Subject: GIG REVIEW: KC @ Bogart's, Cincinnati Ohio, 7-23-2001 I just was blown away by King Crimson in Cincinnati! They previewed two new pieces, and they are more ballsy, more monstrous than TCOL! This is the first time I saw them as KC, as I saw P2 before. Adrian was just amazing on guitar, and really interacted well with the crowd. One guy shouted "Lone Rhinoceros!" which drew a big grin from Adrian. Fripp sat off to the right in the shadows as usual. I don't think he looked at the audience once, even when the others were taking their bows. He was there strictly to satisfy his muse, and he raped her thoroughly! Several times his fingers were a blur as he shredded his guitar, inspiring most to simply drop their jaws in amazement. Hip playing was so precise and flawless, a true testiment to his dedication and skill to his craft. Among some of the older material were Red, which they performed while bathed in red light, Thela Hun Ginjeet, FraKctured, and Dinosaur. They performed ProzaKc Blues, ConstruKction of Light. The first encore was Deception of the Thrush, which was played w/o Adrian! All in all, despite the hour wait in ninety plus degree heat, and the absense of chairs in was one of the most wonderful experiences in sound I have ever been a part of. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #862 ********************************