Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #855 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 855 Friday, 6 July 2001 Today's Topics: Re:_Trivia_Question Sheltering Mr McFalls Skysaw Re: LP trivia Dragon cover? Damage Re: How I got into King Crimson GG&F/KC The Missing Link Tool inspired by KC? KC to be inspired by Tool? Re: S&BB lyric sheet Re: LP trivia, and a mea culpa Late NEARfest report Adrian, Tony L & Kevin Max of DC Talk KC Nashville 2001 be spiffy lp trivia question Fripp with Blondie new PapaBear release One Groove for All? Re: LP Trivia / Steve Hackett Re: LP trivia Re: LP Trivia ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 18:19:59 -0500 From: Michael Brothers Subject: Re:_Trivia_Question Eric Young Wrote: Here's a silly trivia question to keep you all busy on a morning off......... Q: which lp (album) has more grooves per side?.... 1. Side A of ''Court Of The Crimson King'' 2. Side B of ''Islands'' or 3. Side A of ''Discipline'' Michael Brothers responds: They all have one groove per side. Try a little harder next time Eric! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 01:05:46 +0100 From: "Martin Lennon" Subject: Sheltering Mr McFalls Skysaw Ref: Peter Clinch's post which has been poorly quoted from thus: >That's not a guitar, it's an electric violin. To the naysayers, it IS an electric violin. Granted, not on the original, but on the McFalls album "Upstart Jugglers" to which Mr Clinch refers. Pay a little more attention guys. It's a GREAT version by the way. And finally, to Eric/Susan Young - Naughty, naughty... there is only ONE groove on either side of ANY album! But surely everyone knew that... didn't they? Bye bye PS: Obviously Adrian isn't from Britain, or he might have included 'bollocks' in the 'b' list of Elephant talk. But then, isn't there another 'b' word he could have used? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:31:11 GMT From: Mike Bartz Subject: Re: LP trivia Which one has more grooves? None of them. Each side has only one continuous groove. That's the case for all vinyl, except of course for those fun "3-sided" records. Mike >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:42:35 -0400 >From: "Eric / Susan Young" >Subject: LP trivia > > Hey Ho - > Here's a silly trivia question to keep you >all busy on a morning off......... > > Q: which lp (album) has more grooves per side?.... > > 1. Side A of ''Court Of The Crimson King'' > 2. Side B of ''Islands'' > or 3. Side A of ''Discipline'' > > Good luck! E Young -- Mike Bartz mob at bartz dot net http://mob.n3.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:18:17 -0700 From: Clark Ray Subject: Dragon cover? Hi! A friend of mine was telling me about an album in the late 60s or early 70s by a band that she's pretty sure included Robert Fripp and Greg Lake. She thought it was King Crimson, but I know (or at least I think I do) all of the early King Crimson album covers. She says the cover was of a dragon and in the dragon's mouth was a beautiful woman (possibly a girl). Do you have any idea what the album was and who it was by? Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:30:26 +0200 From: "Thomas" Subject: Damage Thought you'd like to know ... from http://www.trophies.org , a reliable David Sylvian site : "The first release dates for the upcoming albums were published (not confirmed yet) : Damage REMASTERED, Remixed, remastered and repackaged. Release Date: 3-Sep-01 (...) " Thomas -- Do you know what other music Crimheads listen to ? -- Check it out at http://fr.clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/crimsoncheckout ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 15:42:12 -0500 From: "o`oGothiC ShadoWo'o" Subject: Re: How I got into King Crimson I kinda said the same thing when I heard the new King Crimson. I had started out by watching an "Asia" biography from 1983 (when Greg Lake was with the band). On the video, Greg Lake said that he found it weird that John Wetton replaced him in King Crimson... but He replaced John Wetton on Asia. Then it showed the cover of "In the Court of the Crimson King" and played the chorus to that song. I thought, "Oh hell, why not?" So I got online and opened up my napster (this was about a year ago... when Napster was worth having because there were still songs on there) and I downloaded the "In the Court of the Crimson King" song. I absolutely loved it. Then I decided (since I knew that John Wetton had been in the band) to see if he sang the song at a live performance. Then it came up as some large name like "Steve Hackett Tokyo Tapes - John Wetton, Ian McDonald, and Steve Hackett - In the Court of the Crimson King" I downloaded that and the John Wetton version of "I talk to the Wind" I decided to try out some more King Crimson music and look for John Wetton's songs with King Crimson. On the "Asia - Live in Moscow" album, John Wetton plays "Starless" on the grand piano and "Book Of Saturday" on the acoustic guitar. So I downloaded those two songs (King Crimson's original versions) and LOVED them. I decided to start listening to all of King Crimson... I started out by purchasing Greg Lake's two albums with the band, and then I listened to all the live versions of "21st Century Schizoid Man"... Boz Burrel's version was really heavy, and then it transformed into jazz, and then back into pretty heavy guitars. But what really hit me was the latest version of the song, with Adrian Belew. Soon after that I saw an interesting title of a song, "Cirkus" with Gordon Haskell on vocals. I thought that it was amazing, it had the feel of the Greg Lake Era but yet a new sound to it. I then looked on Yahoo.com and was messing around in the "Shop For Music" section. I noticed that an album titled "CirKus" was for sale. So I decided to purchase that album. When I finally got home and looked at the back, I was shocked that the song "Cirkus" wasn't on the album "Cirkus" (WhY?) I listened to the first CD... and Dinosaur was track one. I really liked that song, but the rest was just like, "What the hell?" So I decided to keep the first cd in it's envelope for all eternity... and listen to the second cd with all of the singers from 1969 - 1974 (all except Gordon Haskell) Later on, Napster started to lose money as Metallica sued the hell out of them. So I downloaded "AudioGalaxy Satellite" (which, might I add, not a bad program AT ALL)... and typed in King Crimson. A looooooong list appeared and a lot of them were the newer songs. I decided to check out some of the songs. I loved those songs!!! I guess I'm not too fond of the live performances but the studio albums are some of the greatest! So now I'm a 15-year-old King Crimson freak. I purchase the albums like crazy (and other bands... but King Crimson is the most important at this moment...) Oh yeah, and one more thing... I found a live version of "Cirkus" and it sounds like Boz Burrel's voice... it was "Live in Boston" so I don't know if it's him or not, I can only guess. If anyone wants to listen to it for themselves, I have AOL Instant Messenger (screen name: GothiK Poseidon) and MSN Messenger (tool_freak5000 at hotmail dot com) I can send you the song over that thing. I thought I would bore everyone on the "List of Receivers" with that stupid story about my life. Oh yeah, and thanks to John Wetton, Asia, and King Crimson I now spread my horizon to a lot of other Progressive Rock bands such as Jethro Tull and ELP. (PS - Thanks to the guy that was remarking about the Buffalo 66 movie and it's content of those Yes songs... I listened to those two songs and now I'm a Yes fan as well...) Bye - Jonathan - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 01:25:56 -0000 From: "Danny Anderson" Subject: GG&F/KC The Missing Link Have any of you wondered what the hell was the misssing link between Giles, Giles and Fripp and the first King Crimson? How could such a wonderfully silly band turn into the initial monsters of prog rock? The new Giles, Giles & Fripp release, METAMORPHOSIS, has a couple of tunes which ARE the missing link. If you haven't got it, get it. If you can't get it, find someone who will trade. Despite whatever RF and the gang might say, this is a must. You'll hear the transition. Trust me on this one. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 23:41:13 -0500 From: "Sam Wesley" Subject: Tool inspired by KC? KC to be inspired by Tool? I keep reading that the latest Tool shows "obvious" inspiration from King Crimson. Am I listening to the same CD as the folks making such a suggestion? What I'm hearing is a band that sounds more like Metallica than anything else. There may be a little rockin' Rush in there, but again, that sounds like Metallica (who have opening expressed their Rush influence). Most of the guitar work sounds like so much death head banging chords. The drumming is heavily based on bass drum and what sounds like large mallet drumming. The singing is largely unvarying and the lyrics are hard to make out. Now I'm coming at this with a genuine desire to get to understand and know this music, if for no other reason than my curiosity at how KC and Tool fit together - if in fact they do. I can't make out any musical association. Further suggestions that KC might in turn be inspired by Tool make me wonder how that might happen musically. I can more easily imaging Trey in a classic head banging stance on a bass guitar (especially long haired Trey of old), than the boys adopting much musically from the latest CD. Now, Fripp has indicated his liking the previous Tool CD (I've yet to read about how he feels about the latest one). So perhaps I need to get that one instead. But, hey, perhaps the fit is in philosophies, not in the music, so perhaps Tool is "moving on" to what I'm now listening to, so going back to their older material wouldn't do me much good. If Tool is being influenced by KC then great. I just don't hear the influence in their music, and I'm not sure KC would find much there musically in Tool's latest work worth building on either. But that's my opinion. Should make for an odd combo on tour. Sam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:29:16 -0400 From: "Pablo Velasco" Subject: Re: S&BB lyric sheet In ET 853 Markus Gnad wrote: >Hmm.... real Dudes know the lyrics by heart. Resourceful dudes get the lyrics from the ET web site, print them in a 12x12 cm format to fit nicely in the CD's sleeve. The ET logo printed in colour is a very good looking way to credit the source. Pablo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 15:36:39 -0400 From: Jim Bailey Subject: Re: LP trivia, and a mea culpa To Messrs. Drayton and Kirkham, Monty Python's "Matching Tie and Handkerchief " had two grooves on side two. Outdoing that, though, was a double LP released by Giorno Poetry Systems featuring John Giorno, William S. Burroughs, and Laurie Anderson - the fourth side had three concentric grooves, one for each of the participants. Not much fun if you're a DJ trying to do a quick cue-up! segue to... Mea culpa. Yes, I guess that was a bit of a misnomer using the "Drive to 1981" moniker for those three LPs alone. Thanks to M. Masse for pointing that out. I was a bit hasty in getting the post off I suppose. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 16:19:34 EDT From: Micrael at aol dot com Subject: Late NEARfest report Long-time lurker here with a late report on NEARfest. My girlfriend and I drove to Bethlehem from Detroit with few expectations, as the Guitar Trio and Porcupine Tree were the only bands we were familiar with. Our anticipation was high, however, with the many positive recommendations of people on this list. I expected that Banco del Mutuo Soccorso would be a great band as they received top billing over P-Tree, a band we knew to be fantastic live. Birdsongs of the Mesozoic opened with a set of adventurous blend of jazz, rock and classical music which set the stage for a terrific weekend. Birdsongs delivered with fine musicianship and compelling arrangements which would please any fan of prog or jazz. Their playful interactions and challenging compositions along with their commanding stage presence made them the surprise of the festival. The next band, Under the Sun, presented a harder, heavier edge than I was prepared for and which lost my interest. They are talented musicians and are very good at what they do, but there was more metal than prog for my taste. They went down very well with many people but more attendees left during their set than any other band. White Willow was a well-received band of young Scandinavian hippies whose attempt to capture the sound and the feel of the seventies is admirable, but which fell short for me. Most people liked them very much, but I felt their compositions were contrived and the musicianship could not support the band's ambition. The flautist was the focal point of the musicianship and was most interesting to watch, though they all seemed a bit nervous throughout. They seemed overwhelmed by the audience reception, though I had the sense that we were applauding the band's intention more than the performance. With some seasoning, White Willow should become a more solid group and I will watch their progress with interest. I very much liked Deus ex Machina and the quirky vocalist, though I was surprised by the number of people who were not impressed. The Latin vocals may have been difficult for some at first, but their set grew stronger with each tune and the full rock opera sound was very appealing. The musicianship was first-rate and the band's overall stage presence was compelling and satisfying. Theirs was the first CD I purchased (De Republica), and it is a very good example of a modern operatic rock sound. After the show I was able to meet the vocalist, whose shyness and humility were refreshing. The drummer was fascinated by my Musical Box tee-shirt and led me by the elbow as he searched for someone to interpret for us so I could describe the performance of The Lamb. I highly recommend Deus ex Machina and hope to see them back in the states soon. Porcupine Tree closed the first day, to the ecstatic delight of most of the audience, but many were indifferent and a bit bored. While I consider P-Tree to be more a space rock than prog rock band, their mix of wall-of-sound guitar and ambient textures was well paced and powerful. Drummer Chris Maitland was very impressive and made drumming look effortless. Steven Wilson's diminutive stature is in such stark contrast to the strength and power of his music. While I find the band's more recent efforts to be more commercial, the compositions remain avant-garde and absorbing. I do not understand why this band does not receive more radio play (gasp) and why they are not more popular. My expectations were more than fulfilled as P-Tree delivered a fantastic show. The excitement in the Zoellner Arts Center following the close of the first day was surpassed only by the anticipation of the following day. The second day began with the fusion band Underground Railroad, whose music I found interesting, but I was so extremely disappointed at their stage presence that I had a hard time enjoying their performance. The most interesting instrumentalist was the guitarist, but his annoying and distracting habit of turning his back completely to the audience detracted mightily from the show. He had some tasty solos but there was nothing to watch! Perhaps he was nervous, but the only people in the theater who were able to watch him were themselves onstage. I also felt that the vocals got in the way of some fine instrumentals. As our friend Lou pointed out, American bands need to accept the merits of using a vocalist who is not preoccupied with playing an instrument. Another band who could use some seasoning, and I look forward to watching their development. One band I was excited to see was Djam Karet from California, and I was blown away by their show. Comparisons to Crimson notwithstanding, their compositions are unique and emotive. Each member was a joy to watch and is a fantastic and talented instrumentalist. Their drummer also made drumming look easy, and the guitarists took on some challenging compositions and delivered a solid performance. The bassist was terrific fun to watch, and his stage presence was entertaining and his brief introductions of the tunes were humorous. This band delivers heavy rhythms and complex interplay, and their moody melodies are supported by a tight rhythm section. Djam Karet is clearly one of the best of the young American prog bands whose lack of commercial success is a mystery, though they do not tour much and do not seemed concerned with commercial success. I would think that young fans of bands like Tool and Primus would love Djam Karet, while us older progheads who cut our teeth on C! rimson and Floyd can find a refr eshing and creative approach to prog in Djam Karet. Very highly recommended! Look for them if they come to your area. They are not to be missed. The California Guitar Trio with Tony Levin presented a safe and predictable show to those of us who have seen them several times. They went over extremely well and were called back for encores by an appreciative audience. The version of Heart of the Sunrise was a pleasant treat and was the highlight of Tony's work, along with his playing of the Stick. I could have done without the karaoke version of Bohemian Rhapsody, which was dominated by several loud and off-key (mostly female) participants who detracted from some beautiful playing. The Trio sounded as clean and precise as usual. The joy with which they approach music is contagious and is captured well on their CDs. If you haven't seen them, they tour frequently and are well worth seeing. I had heard good things about the Hungarian band After Crying, but I found their performance to be sterile and a little too slickly produced. I don't favor keyboard-dominated material, and the dual keyboard setup dominated their sound with a processed and packaged feel that was rejected in the days of Styx and latter day ELP. After Crying is certainly professional and accomplished, but the new age musings of the vocalist sounded contrived and out-of-place to my ears. While the vocalist has a good voice, the vocals detracted from the music and drew too much attention from some very fine musicianship. I much preferred After Crying when the vocalist was off-stage, though the Hungarian language vocals at the end of the show came across better. They seemed to go down well and most reviews were positive. I can't add much to what has been said about Banco del Mutuo Soccorso. This is the best band I have seen in many years and was worth the expense of getting to NEARfest. This was Pavarotti meets prog at its best. It's hard to believe this was only their second performance in the states in their long and illustrious career. The vocalist commanded the stage, and the compositions and arrangements were as good as any I've heard within the prog genre. The musicians (especially the drummer) were fantastic and had tremendous stage presence. The music combined dramatic tensions and soaring solos, woven into a complex fabric which never lost continuity and which pushed musical boundaries. So I have another band whose catalog I need to collect. I saw quite a few Yes and Musical Box t-shirts in addition to the many Gentle Giant shirts. Wearing a band t-shirt invites many conversations, providing a perfect reason and place to start a conversation with a stranger. Help keep the prog movement alive by bringing your friends to the prog shows in your town. Word of mouth is the best form of advertising, and it's up to we who are most involved with prog music to carry the torch. Mike Np: Afro Celt Sound System Vol. 2 Release ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:20:52 -0500 From: Gordon Griffith Subject: Adrian, Tony L & Kevin Max of DC Talk Just visited the Kevin Max (of DC Talk) web site. Kevin is coming out with a solo album. His first two credits are Adrian Belew and Tony Levin. There are also some photos of Adrian and Tony L on the website. www.kevinmax.com FYI R. Gordon in Dallas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:04:16 EDT From: AlfredDodson at aol dot com Subject: KC Nashville 2001 I was wondering if there are any plans to make the last batch of Warm-up shows available over the internet in audio or video format. I enjoyed the 2000 warm-ups and would like to see the 2001 warm-ups. any guesses? aKd ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 04:20:24 -0400 From: "Smiths" Subject: be spiffy I have been listening this : A Tribute to The Music & Works of Brian Eno, the past few weeks. For all of you Crims out there that have not sampled this, you are missing a treat. All the tunes are renditions of classic Eno stuff done by other people. It will curl your hairs. One of the inclusions is the classic Eno/Fripp/Bowie work Warszawa from Bowie's Heroes. Other top 40 favorites: Somber Reptiles by Controlled Bleeding; Sky Saw, by Brand X; The True Wheel, by FarFlung ( I recall a statement by Fripp that The Construction of Light was the reinvention of the wheel for KC?) ; 3rd Uncle by Astralasia; Baby's on Fire, by The Electric Hellfire Club; and Energy Fools the Magician, by Alien Planetscapes. If KC wants to spice up their present tour set, any of these would be a helluva lot more interesting than Heroes. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:19:35 +0200 From: "Han van de Graaf" Subject: lp trivia question > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:42:35 -0400 > From: "Eric / Susan Young" > Subject: LP trivia > > Hey Ho - > Here's a silly trivia question to keep you > all busy on a morning off......... > > Q: which lp (album) has more grooves per side?.... > > 1. Side A of ''Court Of The Crimson King'' > 2. Side B of ''Islands'' > or 3. Side A of ''Discipline'' > > Good luck! E Young > > There's a difficult question.... but not really, every lp has an groove per side. Han van de Graaf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:41:45 +0100 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" Subject: Fripp with Blondie In ET 854, mike asked, >...now that I have proof they DID work together (at least to a small extent), can anyone clarify exactly what (or which pieces) Fripp was involved in? < Even now the vault of my mind opens recalling the liner notes to "Parallel Lines", crediting Robert Fripp with the guitar for "Fade Away and Radiate". Listen to it - of COURSE it's RF. Happy Fourth, fellow expatriate Americans! Stephen Goodman http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons & Illustrations http://www.earthlight.net/Studios * The free Loop of the Week! http://www.live365.com/stations/218194 * EarthLight Online / Live! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:04:47 EDT From: TheSwid at aol dot com Subject: new PapaBear release I'd thought that I would pass on a short note about PapaBear's new CD release called "XtraKcts & ArtifaKcts." Check out the link for more details (& 3 song excerpts): http://www.tonylevin.com/bpm.htm Pat Mastelotto & Bill Munyon have taken clips of KC plus Robert speaking & turned it into something that Crimson fans will find interesting! The cover/poster is worth having one its own. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 10:05:22 -0500 From: "Ann-Marie Anchustegui" Subject: One Groove for All? Can't believe nobody mentioned this yet - Monty Python's Flying Circus had an LP called "Matching Tie and Handkerchief" that had 2 grooves on one side. What content you got depended on exactly where you placed the stylus. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:33:39 -0400 From: "Joe Funk" Subject: Re: LP Trivia / Steve Hackett Un-lurking to cast my thoughts on a couple of issues: >Subject: Re: LP Trivia >A: all LP's have only one groove per side. >And I won't admit how long it took me to cotton on. >John Actually, Monty Python's LP: "Matching Tie & Handkerchief" has two separate grooves on side 2.. When I first purchased it, I couldn't understand why you would hear 2 totally different sets of comedy skits on the same side!! (Unfortunately, this cannot be reproduced on CD..) >But a "crimson" band as a vehicle for some new Hackett material >- that could be great. Being a HUGE Hackett fan, I have to totally agree with this.. A lot of Steve's solo work is touch & go, but his latest release: "Darktown" is awesome!! One tune, "In Memoriam", is strikingly similar to "Epitaph" (which is a GOOD thing!).. Bring it on!! Jomama Check out our tunes at: http://www.ampcast.com/search/band.php?id=10116 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:46:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Joe Hartley Subject: Re: LP trivia > From: "Eric / Susan Young" > Q: which lp (album) has more grooves per side?.... > > 1. Side A of ''Court Of The Crimson King'' > 2. Side B of ''Islands'' > or 3. Side A of ''Discipline'' Well, that's a "duh" but here's a tough one: Which LP had more grooves: a) KC's ITCOTCK or b) Monty Python's Matching Tie and Handkerchief? The answer is b) - the record had 3 sides to it! Sides 2 and 3 (I think) were two parallel grooves on the same side of vinyl. Depending on where the needle came down (and which groove it hit first) you'd get either side 2 or 3! Joe Hartley - jh at brainiac dot com Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to reform. - Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 08:56:46 +1000 From: "Mark Hawling" Subject: Re: Re: LP Trivia >A: all LP's have only one groove per side. >And I won't admit how long it took me to cotton on. Actually there is Monty Python's "Matching Tie and Handkerchief" Lp which is a "three sided record". What this really means is that one side has two parallel grooves with different material in each, or in other words two grooves on one side. Now if KC had though of this for the "Three of a Perfect Pair" LP.....? Mark ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #855 ********************************