Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #854 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 854 Monday, 2 July 2001 Today's Topics: sheletring sky, electric violin Re: 1969 "Crimson" reunion w/ Steve Hackett? Gormenghast New book of KC Tool/Crimson dates and venues Re: Electric violin on Sheltering Sky Re: LP Trivia Re: LP trivia Fripp & Blondie Re: How I Got Into King Crimson late NEARfest report Sheltering Sky & Electric Violin RE: LP trivia Violin,Guitar,There IS a Difference... Fripp/Collins on No-Man's "Lost Songs Vol. 1" - reviewette ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:38:56 +0100 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: sheletring sky, electric violin In ET #852 Steve Moore wondered (in reply to my mail): >> That's not a guitar, it's an electric violin. > Are you *sure*?? It sounds very much like Belew's guitar to me. Who was > playing electric violin on Discipline? We seem to be at cross purposes: I was talking about the version on Mr. McFall's Chamber's recent CD "Upstart Jugglers", where the lead line is taken by Greg Lawson playing the electric violin. There's a version of Matte Kudasai on UJ too, with the melody line played on a musical saw, also not a feature of the original instrumentation! Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:01:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Craig Matsumoto Subject: Re: 1969 "Crimson" reunion w/ Steve Hackett? "Brian Pearson" sez: > Sure it would be nice to hear original members rescuscitating ITCOTCK > material as a SUPPLEMENT to their recent creations. But unlike many > music fans ("Hey DOOD, play Freebird") I would like to hear a > predominance of new, interesting, challenging material. Would especially > like to hear Mr. Hackett step forward w/ some of his recent work. Very much agreed. I have to admit Hackett's solo stuff has never resonated with me, but I've been glad to see him develop his own career over the years. It would be awful to see him turn into a nostalgia act. But a "crimson" band as a vehicle for some new Hackett material - that could be great. I love the old stuff as much as anyone, but I think prog fans, like jazz fans, are sometimes too obsessed with the past. -- Craig M. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:36:11 -0500 From: Tom Law Subject: Gormenghast Well, I just finished watching PBS's broadcast of the BBC's production of Gormenghast. It was a great adaption, I thought; Fine Stuff. But I was _particularly_ pleased to find "Islands"-era Fripp playing the part of Dr. Prunesquallor! What great casting! (Granted, the closing credits call him "John Sessions", but I guess that's another pseudonym, like "Dusty Rhodes".) I think it'd be quite impressive if Fripp wore his Prunesquallor costume for the Tool tour. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:43:51 +0200 From: Alfredo_Azorin Subject: New book of KC I've just bought a book of King Crimson in Spanish. It's called 'King Crimson' (of course) and it's wrote by Carlos Romeo. It's great to have read it twice and I'm not tired of read it. I say this for all spanish readers of course. You can find it at the Fnac at a good price. You will see all of the musical biography of Fripp. Yours. Alfredo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:41:29 -0700 From: "Fazio, Lou" Subject: Tool/Crimson dates and venues Greetings all. I'm not sure if this info has been posted here yet, but this article includes the exact dates and venues for this hotly anticipated tour. Also note (of interest?) the working title of the next KC studio album. Cheers, LF Tool, King Crimson Journeying West For August Tour Joe D'Angelo 06/27/2001 While Maynard James Keenan may very well be the crown prince of art metal, he'll be paired with proper prog-rock royalty this August when his band Tool teams up with King Crimson for nine dates. After kicking off August 3 at the Red Rocks Amphitheatre outside Denver, the short trek sticks to the West Coast and closes August 15 in San Diego, according to Tool's publicist. A full-scale U.S. tour is being planned for September, according to Tool's management. Tool are currently wrapping up the European leg of a tour supporting Lateralus, which was released in May. After that, they'll play Edgefest 2001 in Barrie, Ontario, before performing in Australia and New Zealand throughout July. The band is scheduled to play the Roskilde Festival in Denmark on Thursday. Before hooking up with Tool, King Crimson - guitarists Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew, multi-instrumentalist Trey Gunn and drummer Pat Mastelotto - have lined up a handful of U.S. dates, beginning July 23 in Cincinnati, according to the band's manager. After the shows with Tool, the group will head to Mexico City for three shows at the Metropolitan Theatre. The band is also working on a new album that carries the working title Nouveau Metal. The follow-up to last year's ConstruKction of Light is expected to surface early next year. Tool/King Crimson tour dates, according to Tool's publicist: * 8/3 - Morrison, CO @ Red Rocks Amphitheatre * 8/6 - Seattle, WA @ Paramount Theatre * 8/7 - Seattle, WA @ Paramount Theatre * 8/8 - Portland, OR @ Arlene Schnitzer Hall * 8/10 - Berkeley, CA @ Community Theater * 8/11 - Berkeley, CA @ Community Theater * 8/13 - Los Angeles, CA @ Wiltern Theatre * 8/14 - Los Angeles, CA @ Wiltern Theatre * 8/15 - San Diego, CA @ SDSU Open Air Theatre ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:48:26 -0500 From: Don Hosek Subject: Re: Electric violin on Sheltering Sky I'm pretty sure that the original "Electric Violin" statement was referring to the McFall's Chamber version, not the KC version. There it most definitely is an electric violin. -dh --- Don Hosek, bassist http://don.dream-in-color.net/ Dream in Color - http://www.dream-in-color.net/ 312/953-3679 don at dream-in-color dot net "And everything is instant, no one has to wait too long And Lennon never has to sing a Paul McCartney Song." (Kevin Gilbert, "Joytown") Next show: 25 July, 8p Uncommon Ground. See the website for details. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 08:52:23 +1000 From: "John Drayton" Subject: Re: LP Trivia A: all LP's have only one groove per side. And I won't admit how long it took me to cotton on. John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:41:56 -0500 From: "Lee Gray" Subject: Re: LP trivia Ahh, come on, that's an old one... they all have the same number of grooves per side: ONE! Lee > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:42:35 -0400 > From: "Eric / Susan Young" > Subject: LP trivia > > Hey Ho - > Here's a silly trivia question to keep you > all busy on a morning off......... > > Q: which lp (album) has more grooves per side?.... > > 1. Side A of ''Court Of The Crimson King'' > 2. Side B of ''Islands'' > or 3. Side A of ''Discipline'' > > Good luck! E Young ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:10:02 -0400 From: mike Subject: Fripp & Blondie I have a video-bio from UK TV about Robert Fripp from about ten years back. At a point in the video, they mention "Fripp's work with Blondie", and follow it with an audio of Deborah Harry saying "And I want to thank the guitarist, Mr. Robert Fripp", while you can hear the crowd cheering. I've heard that Fripp wrote the opening to "One Way Or Another" and some other Blondie pieces, but that could just be rumors. But, now that I have proof they DID work together (at least to a small extent), can anyone clarify exactly what (or which pieces) Fripp was involved in? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:19:20 -0400 From: mike Subject: Re: How I Got Into King Crimson Okay, I'll share a quick one. In or abouts 1975-6, when not in class like I was supposed to be (I'm 42 now), an older friend across from the HS was something like the music guru in town: Caravan, Steve Harley & Cockney Rebel, Genesis, KC, Horse Lips, Soft Machine, etc. We'd sit in his room, smoking tons of hash, and he'd BLAST the "USA" album, saying adamantly "Just listen... they're LIVE and open to all problems, and just listen how fucking TIGHT they are!!!" Though he was and is kind of a nut, I mirrored his passion for such bands, and still do today. It was really quite an experience, which I remember today still very clearly, what with USA at the loudest possible volume, blown out of our shoes! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:32:31 EDT From: Micrael at aol dot com Subject: late NEARfest report Long-time lurker here with a late report on NEARfest. My girlfriend and I drove to Bethlehem from Detroit with few expectations, as the Guitar Trio and Porcupine Tree were the only bands we were familiar with. Our anticipation was high, however, with the many positive recommendations of people on this list. I expected that Banco del Mutuo Soccorso would be a great band as they received top billing over P-Tree, a band we knew to be fantastic live. Birdsongs of the Mesozoic opened with a set of adventurous blend of jazz, rock and classical music which set the stage for a terrific weekend. Birdsongs delivered with fine musicianship and compelling arrangements which would please any fan of prog or jazz. Their playful interactions and challenging compositions along with their commanding stage presence made them the surprise of the festival. The next band, Under the Sun, presented a harder, heavier edge than I was prepared for and which lost my interest. They are talented musicians and are very good at what they do, but there was more metal than prog for my taste. They went down very well with many people but more attendees left during their set than any other band. White Willow was a well-received band of young Scandinavian hippies whose attempt to capture the sound and the feel of the seventies is admirable, but which fell short for me. Most people liked them very much, but I felt their compositions were contrived and the musicianship could not support the band's ambition. The flautist was the focal point of the musicianship and was most interesting to watch, though they all seemed a bit nervous throughout. They seemed overwhelmed by the audience reception, though I had the sense that we were applauding the band's intention more than the performance. With some seasoning, White Willow should become a more solid group and I will watch their progress with interest. I very much liked Deus ex Machina and the quirky vocalist, though I was surprised by the number of people who were not impressed. The Latin vocals may have been difficult for some at first, but their set grew stronger with each tune and the full rock opera sound was very appealing. The musicianship was first-rate and the band's overall stage presence was compelling and satisfying. Theirs was the first CD I purchased (De Republica), and it is a very good example of a modern operatic rock sound. After the show I was able to meet the vocalist, whose shyness and humility were refreshing. The drummer was fascinated by my Musical Box tee-shirt and led me by the elbow as he searched for someone to interpret for us so I could describe the performance of The Lamb. I highly recommend Deus ex Machina and hope to see them back in the states soon. Porcupine Tree closed the first day, to the ecstatic delight of most of the audience, but many were indifferent and a bit bored. While I consider P-Tree to be more a space rock than prog rock band, their mix of wall-of-sound guitar and ambient textures was well paced and powerful. Drummer Chris Maitland was very impressive and made drumming look effortless. Steven Wilson's diminutive stature is in such stark contrast to the strength and power of his music. While I find the band's more recent efforts to be more commercial, the compositions remain avant-garde and absorbing. I do not understand why this band does not receive more radio play (gasp) and why they are not more popular. My expectations were more than fulfilled as P-Tree delivered a fantastic show. The excitement in the Zoellner Arts Center following the close of the first day was surpassed only by the anticipation of the following day. The second day began with the fusion band Underground Railroad, whose music I found interesting, but I was so extremely disappointed at their stage presence that I had a hard time enjoying their performance. The most interesting instrumentalist was the guitarist, but his annoying and distracting habit of turning his back completely to the audience detracted mightily from the show. He had some tasty solos but there was nothing to watch! Perhaps he was nervous, but the only people in the theater who were able to watch him were themselves onstage. I also felt that the vocals got in the way of some fine instrumentals. As our friend Lou pointed out, American bands need to accept the merits of using a vocalist who is not preoccupied with playing an instrument. Another band who could use some seasoning, and I look forward to watching their development. One band I was excited to see was Djam Karet from California, and I was blown away by their show. Comparisons to Crimson notwithstanding, their compositions are unique and emotive. Each member was a joy to watch and is a fantastic and talented instrumentalist. Their drummer also made drumming look easy, and the guitarists took on some challenging compositions and delivered a solid performance. The bassist was terrific fun to watch, and his stage presence was entertaining and his brief introductions of the tunes were humorous. This band delivers heavy rhythms and complex interplay, and their moody melodies are supported by a tight rhythm section. Djam Karet is clearly one of the best of the young American prog bands whose lack of commercial success is a mystery, though they do not tour much and do not seemed concerned with commercial success. I would think that young fans of bands like Tool and Primus would love Djam Karet, while us older progheads who cut our teeth on C! rimson and Floyd can find a refr eshing and creative approach to prog in Djam Karet. Very highly recommended! Look for them if they come to your area. They are not to be missed. The California Guitar Trio with Tony Levin presented a safe and predictable show to those of us who have seen them several times. They went over extremely well and were called back for encores by an appreciative audience. The version of Heart of the Sunrise was a pleasant treat and was the highlight of Tony's work, along with his playing of the Stick. I could have done without the karaoke version of Bohemian Rhapsody, which was dominated by several loud and off-key (mostly female) participants who detracted from some beautiful playing. The Trio sounded as clean and precise as usual. The joy with which they approach music is contagious and is captured well on their CDs. If you haven't seen them, they tour frequently and are well worth seeing. I had heard good things about the Hungarian band After Crying, but I found their performance to be sterile and a little too slickly produced. I don't favor keyboard-dominated material, and the dual keyboard setup dominated their sound with a processed and packaged feel that was rejected in the days of Styx and latter day ELP. After Crying is certainly professional and accomplished, but the new age musings of the vocalist sounded contrived and out-of-place to my ears. While the vocalist has a good voice, the vocals detracted from the music and drew too much attention from some very fine musicianship. I much preferred After Crying when the vocalist was off-stage, though the Hungarian language vocals at the end of the show came across better. They seemed to go down well and most reviews were positive. I can't add much to what has been said about Banco del Mutuo Soccorso. This is the best band I have seen in many years and was worth the expense of getting to NEARfest. This was Pavarotti meets prog at its best. It's hard to believe this was only their second performance in the states in their long and illustrious career. The vocalist commanded the stage, and the compositions and arrangements were as good as any I've heard within the prog genre. The musicians (especially the drummer) were fantastic and had tremendous stage presence. The music combined dramatic tensions and soaring solos, woven into a complex fabric which never lost continuity and which pushed musical boundaries. So I have another band whose catalog I need to collect. I saw quite a few Yes and Musical Box t-shirts in addition to the many Gentle Giant shirts. Wearing a band t-shirt invites many conversations, providing a perfect reason and place to start a conversation with a stranger. Help keep the prog movement alive by bringing your friends to the prog shows in your town. Word of mouth is the best form of advertising, and it's up to we who are most involved with prog music to carry the torch. Mike Np: Afro Celt Sound System Vol. 2 Release ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:32:06 +0200 From: Julien Perriard Subject: Sheltering Sky & Electric Violin Yes, it MIGHT be an electric violin that is playing the solo part of Sheltering Sky, just depends on which version you're listening to! The first poster who mentioned the electric violin part was NOT speaking about the Discipline album. Electric violin is played on a COVER VERSION of "The Sheltering Sky" which appears on the new Mr McFall's Chamber album, "Upstart Jugglers". You may get information about this album or buy it online at www.mcfalls.co.uk Hope this makes everything clearer! Julien Perriard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 13:13:12 -0500 From: "W. Stuart Kirkham" Subject: RE: LP trivia The answer, of course, is that they all have the same number of grooves (as do all LPs); that is, one. -- W. Stuart Kirkham PhD. Graduate student Department of Geography University of Texas at Austin wskirkham at mail dot utexas dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:18:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Wilsovox at webtv dot net (Wilson: Ric & Elaine) Subject: Violin,Guitar,There IS a Difference... Hi All, Saw the various posts on "The Sheltering Sky", and being one of my favorite tracks of Crimson, I have dissected it many times. I was lucky enough to see King Crimson on the 1981 U.S. Tour in Atlanta,Ga. and "Sky" totally hypnotized me! I can see in a way how one would mistake the Guitar in it as electric violin ,especially after once watching Violinist/Keyboard player Eddie Jobson with "UK". At a concert on one of their U.S.Tours,this amazing musician plucked away at his Electric Violin onstage, holding it "Guitar style",and created a solo very close to an electric guitar! Of course,the Marshall amps didn't hurt either.But take this laymen's word for it, Two Amazing Guitars, a Slit Drum,and the incredible musicians playing them,give "The Sheltering Sky" it's mystic charm! Hell, it even gives my Wife goose bumps...that's Effect! Crimsonite and Dead Hippie, Ric Wilson. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 23:05:38 +0100 From: "D. Chinn" Subject: Fripp/Collins on No-Man's "Lost Songs Vol. 1" - reviewette Tim Bowness wrote (in ET #851 about ten days ago): > I thought some of you may be interested to know that No-Man's 'Lost Songs: Volume One' will soon be available > from www.burningshed.com. > Featuring two 'Flowermouth'-era contributions apiece from Robert Fripp and Mel Collins, 'Lost Songs: Volume One' > is a 14 track, 60 minute CDR collection of previously unreleased No-Man material dating from 1991-97 (Porcupine > Tree's Colin Edwin and Gong's Theo Travis also appear). > The dance remix track, 'Hard Shoulder', is particularly interesting because it's based around Robert's initial approach > to the piece 'Soft Shoulders' (a 'Discipline' style pair of interlocking guitar parts) which due to its obvious debt to early > 80's KC, the band didn't feel was appropriate to use at the time. Having had my copy of this album delivered this weekend, I thought I'd write something about it. As it's a low-profile CD-R label release, "Lost Songs - Volume 1" is likely to become one of the obscurest Crimson-related releases of all. Which would be a shame, as it's a good deal more interesting than many of the Crafty/old-school proggie efforts which are usually discussed in ET. Prospective buyers had better be warned that (as it's an album of bizarre No-Man album outtakes) it's all over the place, stylistically. >From serenity to rage, industrial racket to celestial spirituality, cute pop to out-there sound, disco to devilment, heavy beat to ambience... but then, that's what King Crimson fans tend to go for anyway, isn't it? And some of the tracks, even without Crimsonic intervention, might interest ET readers. The bizarre mutant lounge jazz of "Samaritan Snare", for instance, should appeal to anyone who loved "Lizard" or "Islands" (as well as Portishead). "Hard Shoulder" has the most immediately recognisable Crimson connection. For this song, Robert came up with a twinned guitar part that has the same clean, arresting "electrical panic" quality as that fantastic intro to "Neal And Jack And Me" - my ears pricked up as soon as I heard this. This is levitating over a dancey track not too far off the "dark funk" approach of many of the songs from "The First Day". If you ever wondered what Robert would sound like if he played with a lineup of Devo who were playing it straight for once and making an attempt at panic pop, "Coming Through Slaughter" should satisfy your curiosity. Robert contributes a bizarre guitar solo which reminds me of his comments in early '90s interviews when he was toying with the idea of a "speed metal" Crimson (though I think he was thinking more of Steve Vai than Tony MacAlpine or Marty Friedman). Certainly this solo leaps, wails and skids about in true "Passion And Warfare" style (or like Eddie Van Halen on "Beat It" - there's an extended tailout over the following verse). It's certainly much more "rock" than anything he's played since the early '70s but with a glistening '90s MIDI finish. Crucially, he sounds as if he had a great time playing it. But the best reason for a Crimson fan to pick this up is not just for Robert's appearances, but for the chance to hear for themselves just how good Mel Collins still was in 1994 (and presumably still is now) when left alone to just play his own ideas. His tenor sax skronk on "Hard Shoulder" is truly scary - easily the toughest playing he's done outside live Crim tapes. And his liquid flute improvs on "Coming Through Slaughter" are lovely beyond belief. It all makes an interesting counterpart to No-Man's continually underrated "Flowermouth", which also features some of Robert and Mel's best and least-well-known guest spots. Just thought I'd let you know. cheers, Dann Chinn n/p: SPLaTTeRCeLL - ":::OAH" ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #854 ********************************