Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #849 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 849 Saturday, 16 June 2001 Today's Topics: NEWS: From the moderator GIG BIZ: KC in Mexico GIG BIZ: Fwd: King Crimson alert GIG BIZ: King Crimson--Shows in July? Problems with DGM ordering RF in Russia? When was born Bruford? Mellotron M400 Ian McDonald Flute Demo A Crim Without Fripp! (Jeremy Rowden) & I Talk To The Wind (SJWilson) A Note To New Crimson Fans... I talk to the Wind "Camping for tickets" and Ticketmaster... Re: Another snippy Tool review Seven King Crimson & Tool Shows Re: Subject: A Crim Without a Fripp! Tool/Larks' Tongues Re: "Unpronounceable" Earthworks Remastered Starless and Bible Black Chocolate And Peanutbutter Together!!!! GIG REVIEW: ConstruKction Site ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:36:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Toby Howard Subject: NEWS: From the moderator Hi everyone. As we enter a new season of touring for KC (and that other band, what's their name...) it would be a big help if posters could use the Subject line prefixes "GIG BIZ: " if talking about dates or tickets, and "GIG REVIEW: " if reporting about a show you've attended. The ET system can then automatically group those posts together into bunches. Thanks Toby ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:36:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Eduardo Barredo Subject: GIG BIZ: KC in Mexico Hi, maybe some of you already know, but anyway let me tell you that KC will be giving a concert on August 27th in el teatro metropolitan in Mexico City!! Cheers! Eduardo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:55:07 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: GIG BIZ: Fwd: King Crimson alert >Not that many of you are within easy driving distance of Nashville, BUT... > >King Crimson is playing four shows (one each evening tonight through >Sunday) at Nashville's best club, 12th & Porter. > >I just spoke with John Bruton, the club's booker, who informed me that due >to a problem with the online ticket sale, there are *FIFTY* tickets still >available at the door for *each* show. > >Therefore, if you were thinking of going but saw on the website > that the shows were sold out, they're not. Like >last year's series of KC@12th&P shows, it's a rare chance to see rock >musicians of this caliber in such an intimate setting, so if you're >interested and *can* skeddadle here, do it! > >Any of you on Elephant-Talk might want to pass this information on to that >list, if it hasn't mentioned there already. > >going Friday and now maybe Saturday too, > >Miles --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:24:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Subject: GIG BIZ: King Crimson--Shows in July? I see King Crimson shows listed on Ticketmaster (US) for the following places: GA: Atlanta FLA: Orlando, West Palm Beach, and St. Petersburg I had no notion about them coming here (Atlanta) other than by a chance visit to the TM site and subsequent "King Crimson" search. I hope I'm not hallucinating. Thanks, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 19:22:08 +1200 From: "Paul Brobbel" Subject: Problems with DGM ordering This is a complicated situation but I'd appreciate any opinions on it all the same. I live in New Zealand and I have a friend in Belgium who I did a favour for. In return she has offered to buy me something online with her credit card and have it shipped to me in NZ. I thought this would be a good opportunity to get something that's unavailable in my country so we settled on the TOAPP video from DGM. The problem is that as the shipping is to NZ the order should be made to DGM-USA. As I understand the regional divisions are made to make postage costs uniform. So the problem is that she's in Belgium and would normally order through DGM-Europe, I'm in NZ and I should use the other. I think the strange thing is that the USA doesn't market PAL format videos, which is what we use in NZ. Why have NZ in the USA catchment when certain products are useless. Well not totally, I could order from DGM-USA and get a US format video them pay extra money back here to get it converted to PAL. That would be an extra cost, and this whole deal was supposed to be an easy way for us to return a favour. So the easiest situation is for my friend to order it from the US in US format and get it sent here, but I'm not so sure even that will work. The next easiest things is to have her buy it, and recieve it and then post it to me, which makes the cost on her further. I was ready to call the whole deal off since DGM never returned my emails but after one last effort I got a reply a couple of days after my last inquiry. Not from a DGM address but apparently from a DGM-USA employee using their own AOL email account. Maybe this is normal but I'd have thought DGM would reply to me with a company address. They did last time I queried them. So anyway, this emplyee told me they'd had a look around the USA supplies and found no PAL videos, though they have had some in stock before. She asked me to email (to this AOL address) my details such as name, address and to state that I wanted the PAL format video. The real kicker is that she also wanted my credit card details. Well not mine, but my friends in Belgium. Now this whole situation is driving me crazy and maybe I'm a bit thick for misunderstanding something along the way but there's no way in hell I'm going to send credit card details of myself or a friend through email to someone representing a company through what appears to a private email address. I might as well mail the credit card to her. And I can just imagine asking my friend for her number and expiry date. So in the end, I'm giving up on DGM for now. If anyone can help me aquire a PAL format TOAPP video I'd be forever endebted. All I've ever seen in NZ is the Beat video :-( Puul. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:52:19 +0400 From: Vsevolod Massalkine Subject: RF in Russia? Hi I've heard rumors about Robert Fripp concert in Saint-Petersburg, Russia this summer. But I can't find no information about RF tour dates, his band and set-list. Can you help me? Thank You. /OAxIIIA iAOAIEEI Vsevolod Massalkine mailto:vem at passage dot spb dot ru Tel 7-(812)- 110-61-28, 313-43-29, 313-40-19 48 Nevsky pr., Saint-Petersburg, Russia. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:15:57 +0400 From: "GENNADI A. ORLOV" Subject: When was born Bruford? Dear friends, In various sources are indicated the different years of birth Mr. Bruford . Here, for example, citation from Britannica - "b. William Scott Bruford, 17 May 1949, Sevenoaks, Kent, England." In other sources the 1948 is indicated. This year of birth is indicated and in ET FAQ. Who from you knows precisely - when was born William? Gennadi Orlov Moscow, Russia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:02:49 CEST From: crimson63 at katamail dot com Subject: Mellotron M400 Ian McDonald Flute Demo If you like Ian Mc Donald flute try this link: http://www.crosswinds.net/~kenmerb/songs/Ianflute.ram At: http://www.crosswinds.net/~kenmerb/songs.ht King Crimson forever ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 06:06:12 -0000 From: "Cameron Devlin" Subject: A Crim Without Fripp! (Jeremy Rowden) & I Talk To The Wind (SJWilson) A CRIM WITHOUT FRIPP! (jeremy dot rowden at ntlworld dot com) >>Hired hand unknown guitarist for the trip, one Steve Hackett (whoever >>he >>is) Steve Hackett was the guitarist for prog-rock legends Genesis between 71 and 77 (i think, though it could be 72). He released a 2CD live album a while ago called The Tokyo Tapes with John Wetton & Ian McDonald (amongst others) and did versions of "I Talk To The Wind" & "In The Court Of The Crimson King" (both available on this great live album). That's who he is. >>Is this nothing more than the aftermath of an evening on >>the (sour) grape at a Crimson ex-pat convention in a pub somewhere in >>prog heaven? I have mixed feelings about this.. first, it'll be nice to hear the original Crim music played by the original members (minus Fripp) live. Lets face it, King Crimson will never play anything off the first album ever again and that'll be almost all this new Crimson 69 band will play. However, there is a downside. Michael Giles was, when ITCOTCK was remastered back in October 1999, working on a SOLO ALBUM that has obviously been put on hold for this little reunion thing. Ian McDonald released a comptetant solo album around the same time (on Steve Hackett's Camino Records) and I would also like to see the second in that series. Peter Sinfield... well, didn't play any instruments or sing anything, so I don't see what he'd do now.. & Greg Lake should stick to what he's good at (ELP, Pomp-rock). Why revisit the past when ALL OF THEM could be doing new and exciting things? >>Will the whole thing be bollocks? Probably. Although I could be proven very wrong, considering the musicianship of the members. I just think it's a total waste of time. I TALK TO THE WIND (sjwilson at sjwilson dot supanet dot com) The version of which you speak is from "The Young Persons Guide To King Crimson", released in 1976 and now long out of print. You can still find it (occasionally) in second hand record shops, but the best bet would be to find yourself a copy of the new Giles, Giles & Fripp collection "Metamorphosis" (or something like that). It's on there, and that was released a couple of weeks ago. Someone on here sent the contact information for the record company recently, so ask about. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 02:45:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Wilsovox at webtv dot net (Wilson, Ric) Subject: A Note To New Crimson Fans... Hello to "Newbie" and all other of the youth that are discovering the endless variety of sound that the Benevolent King Crimson has bestowed on it's loving fans for many a year. I'm sure you would get as many different opinions as there are Crimson Fans by posing that question! As for This Wilson, check out the 1972-1975 period if possible first of all. There's "Lark's Tongues In Aspic",a TRUE Masterpiece in recording technology during that period. "Starless And Bible Black", with it's various mind altering installments, it's better than Drugs. And for the Almighty power of it, there's "Red",One of my Faves,no doubt! "Red" as a basic Disc,was made up of only 3-4 Musicians, 3 for the most part. But God,What sound! Fripp's screaming Guitar, John Wetton's Bass Guitar sounding like 10,000 Amps,and Bill Bruford's Powerful Artistic Percussion, He must have gone through 3 dozen new cymbals during these sessions! No,I'm not forgetting David Cross (how could I?), or Ian McDonald. It's just that sometimes,Three Is A Perfect Pair! (Zero Pun Intended).But hey, They are ALL great, From "The Court" to "The ConstruKction"...Check them out and Enjoy Aural Pleasure! Love to All! Ric The Dead Hippie FM Radio Jock. P.S. For God's sake,don't forget "USA", know some will poo poo it, but it had it's moments! Like "Asbury Park"... The Outrider-//:<>://Hot Nitrogen Halo-SuccubusSoundsUnlimited,L.L.C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:42:50 +0100 From: Andreas Schoter Subject: I talk to the Wind In ET 846 Martin Wilson asked >I am trying to track down which KC album contained an different version of " >I Talk to the Wind" from the one that is on ITCOTKC.The vocal was sung by a >girl and it had a less stilted and "flutey" tone than the ITCOTKC version. I know this from "The Young Persons Guide to King Crimson" compilation from 1976. The vocalist is, I think, Judy Dyble. I don't know if or where this version originally appeared and since I'm at work, I can't check. You can find some info about this release of the Elephant Talk discography pages. Andreas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:48:29 +0100 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" Subject: "Camping for tickets" and Ticketmaster... Does it not present a conflict of interest somehow, that though DGM has presented before us a positive, productive business model for other artists as well as listeners, it still became the same old game when it came to ticket sales? Ticketmaster continues to do to the ticket business what the Big Five do to the music business. It would have been encouraging to see a divergence from that mafia-like model with the Tool-KC tour. Was this then because of the collaboration with Tool on this? Or is it accepted as a normal manner of doing business? Lottery my eye. Stephen Goodman http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons & Illustrations http://www.earthlight.net/Studios * The free Loop of the Week! http://www.live365.com/stations/218194 * EarthLight Online / Live! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:00:49 -0500 (EST) From: Adam Levin Subject: Re: Another snippy Tool review On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, "R. Jackson" wrote: > One of the things I've noticed since I posted this review is that a lot of > Tool fans are completely unable to accept opinions differing from their > golden path of enlightenment. I've had to set up filters to take care of > several persistent young Tool fans who've decided that it isn't enough that > my review recommends Lateralus as a "must-purchase album." My review must > unreservedly proclaim Lateralus the most important album ever made and Tool > some kind of modern-day prophets. If you got that from my response, perhaps you should go back and take Freshman Psychology semester 2 in the fall. Whether you liked or hated the album is not the point. The point is that your album review had little value as an album review since you didn't spend any time speaking about the music, rather you felt it more important to spend several paragraphs expounding on your perceptions of the psychological state of the band and their fans. > Maynard has created a real freakshow there. Again. Does this add value to your "review" to a potential album buyer? I've been kicking around the internet for the last 11 years (and BBS systems for 8 years prior to that) and I've seen as the ability to create and post one's own web pages has become easier an overwhelming rise in the number of "qualified expert opinions" we all have to choose from to help us in our daily life decisions. All of you experts out there, please join in. The only credentials you need are a decent HTML editor. -Adam ---- T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.darkaether.net/ http://mp3.com/darkaether/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:05:34 -0400 From: bmreynolds at nisource dot com Subject: Seven King Crimson & Tool Shows I've read a lot of views on here about the KC/Tool shows. Just remember this is a free country. If you don't like the idea, then don't go. If you're like me and enjoy both, then go. If you don't like Tool fans like myself (which you've naively stereo-typed into Neanderthal cretins who come to shows to hurt each other), then don't go. It's all adventuristic music and proves to be a memorable experience. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:42:15 -0400 From: J A Sontag Subject: Re: Subject: A Crim Without a Fripp! Quoting from Jeremy Rowden's post: <<<"former members of a major name prog band threatening to hit the road without the band's eccentric guitarist and leading light" under the name of "Crimson". Hired hand unknown guitarist for the trip, one Steve Hackett (whoever he is). >> This sounds like old news. A couple of years ago (as the 30th Anniversary Edition of ITCOTCK was about to be released), Fripp wrote in his diary that Ian McDonald had approached him about a possible reunion tour of the '69 Crim. Robert's reply was that he was not interested in playing the old material, but if the others wanted to go on without him, they had his blessing. It was Robert who then suggested to Ian that the guitar spot be taken by Steve Hackett. I have seen nothing since to indicate that such a McDonald/Lake/Giles/Hackett tour will actually happen. Maybe the idea is back on; or maybe this is just a rehash of old news (I suggest the latter). By the way, Steve Hackett was the guitarist for Genesis during their (IMHO) best years (from "Nursery Cryme" through "Wind And Wuthering"). He has also has had an extensive solo career. I personally don't know what his current activities are, but I'm sure some ET reader does. He is a quite capable guitarist who could handle the material with no problems. Also, while Hackett and Fripp are very different, there are certain similarities (particularly in their use of sustained notes and tones) that would probably allow Hackett to play the '69 Crim material and fill the same "space" (sonically} as Fripp. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:45:45 From: "Dan Ceo" Subject: Tool/Larks' Tongues I'm a huge fan of Crimson, 25, I live in Michigan, saw them in November and I lvoe them! I'm a listener of Tool, as well and I got Lateralus yesterday. I've listened to Larks' Tongues In Aspic back-to-back with the Tool CD and I must say the similarities between the two albums are INCREDIBLE. I suggest all of the naysayers on this list should do the same. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:48:03 -0400 From: J A Sontag Subject: Re: "Unpronounceable" Quoting: <<>> This is a bootleg of the 80's band. I have seen it, haven't heard it. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:13:16 -0700 From: Spike Subject: Earthworks Earthworks at the Catalina Grill and Bar in Hollywood was fantastic. We went to all three nights. I have to say, Saturday night was incredible. They were so sharp and together. Notes just flowed out of their instruments like an act of nature. They played about half from the new record. I think one of my favorites is Triplicity, which knocks you out of your chair. After each set, Bill and the band come out to sign autographs. Better yet, just go up and tell them how much you appreciate that they come to your town. Bill is very nice. Of all the millions of people who live in LA, there were only 30 at the Friday late show. Where are you people? Kick yourselves, you missed some great music.Yeah, I know, basketball finals are going on. Learn how to use the vcr. Take it easy, Spike ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:12:13 +1000 From: "John Drayton" Subject: Remastered Starless and Bible Black I have just received the LP-sleeve 30th Anniversary SABB (thanks to the kind offices of Gary at Artist Shop), and have a question. I seem to remember a lyric sheet on the vinyl I had all those years ago. This doesn't include any lyrics. Does anyone know why not? Thanks, John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:48:11 EDT From: RLTOWLER at aol dot com Subject: Chocolate And Peanutbutter Together!!!! Being a long time Chocolate fan (almost 30 years) I cringe at the thought of Chocolate and Peanutbutter going out on Tour together. I feel it would be a disaster for several reasons. 1) Who would open I admit I am somewhat biased but would the Peanut-butter fans sit patiently and quietly throughout A Chocolate set. I think not. Peanut butter fans are in a word "nutty" or sometimes creamy. I think their wild antics would upset The Stoic and sometimes Stodgy Chocolates. 2) Chocolate is an acquired taste. You must have experience (gray hair) and a proper artistic '"sense" in order to appreciate the subtle "flavors" of chocolate. Is this new audience up to it. 3) Playlist Will the younger audience react to a new set of new, never before heard music or will the shouts of "Play Chunky Style" drown out the newer music. 4) Common Ground Will they play or perform together? I shudder to think what would happen if Chocolate and Peanutbutter ever got mixed up!!! What's next Peanutbutter and Jelly! Oh Well, Just my opinion, Let me go back to my desk, I'm making a compilation tape of Tool And KC songs for my long ride home. Bob T. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:54:40 -0400 From: "Mark Stansbery" Subject: GIG REVIEW: ConstruKction Site Not really a review, I'll leave that to someone with more literary skill. A good friend and I attended the KC concert at 12th and Porter last night. The drive from Cincinnati, OH (about 5 1/2 hours) was well worth it. Old Tunes: The band performed all of the TCOL album tunes with the exception of Coda: I Have a Dream (some with new twists & train wrecks). In addition, they played ccccSeizureccc, Frame By Frame, and Elephant Talk. As Encores, they did Deception of the Thrush plus Heroes and Dinosaur, both of which were chosen from a list on a menu board by audients picked by Adrian. New Tunes: The highlights (for me) were the new works. They did a tension-building Crim-type intro piece to start the show -- just excellent! In addition, they performed Level Five, Crimson Blues, and another piece that had lyrics -- I was hearing the word "Stimulae", but it could have been something else. The new stuff is heavy and just rocks, in a solidly Crimson sort of way. To sum up the night: It was HOT, and the band was HOT, and they just seemed happy as could be to be playing. Fripp grinned (at his compadres) throughout almost the entire show. And what a pleasure to witness Crimson in a small venue. Mark ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #849 ********************************