Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #844 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 844 Tuesday, 29 May 2001 Today's Topics: Re: Movie Tool - Lateralus CD review Cage/Fripp Tony Levin Movie surprise, surprise Tool/Crim Crap K.C.VIDEO DVD BEATCLUB BREMEN 72 24 bit remaster sound FA - Wetton Downes CD Gee - No one knows about these videos? Crimson and Tool Riding the Gravy Train KC Limited Edition Remasters Silly Love Songs? Japanese MOONCHILD cds up for auction Weekend Guitar Trio Re: continuing saga+ Islands remastered anywhere? flute Working outside the box; Robert Fripp gets a much needed Tool if you loved Red and Starless $ B.B. ..... Robert Fripp picks Matte Kudasai / Elephant Talk / Sleepless remixes KC As Opening Act Part 199 And A Half Crimson/Tool ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 01:08:05 -0500 From: Don Hosek Subject: Re: Movie At 03:53 AM 5/24/2001 +0000, you wrote: >How about Tony Levin as Tony Levin? I seem to remember seeing him >playing a bass player with Paul Simon in some '80s film, and he did a >fine job! Anyone have any details on the film? That's One Trick Pony. Great music, so-so film. -dh --- Don Hosek dhosek at quixote dot com Quixote Digital Typography 312-953-3679 fax: 312-602-1014 orders: 877-634-1811 For information about SERIF: THE MAGAZINE OF TYPE & TYPOGRAPHY, http://www.quixote.com/serif/ or mail serif-info at quixote dot com Have you seen Sans Serif? http://www.quixote.com/serif/sans/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 00:04:56 -0700 From: "R. Jackson" Subject: Tool - Lateralus CD review http://www.mediasieve.com/tool_lateralus.html The URL above is to my review of the new Tool album. -Rob http://www.mediasieve.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:40:50 +0200 From: Junkie G Subject: Cage/Fripp At 03:53 a.m. 24/05/01 GMT, you wrote: Does anybody know of some writtings, sayings, .. that would connect they both ? Just curious, Junkie G ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 00:05:17 -0400 From: Don Cooper Subject: Tony Levin Movie Neil wrote in ET #842 > How about Tony Levin as Tony Levin? I seem to remember seeing him > playing a bass player with Paul Simon in some '80s film, and he did a > fine job! Anyone have any details on the film? One of my all time favorites! "One Trick Pony", from 1980. Tony also toured with Paul around then. It also featured members of Stuff. It's apparently semi-autobiographical, about Simon's experiences on Columbia. The CD and the movie were both released by Warner Brothers. Don http://www.cooperaudio.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:59:50 From: "Dan Ceo" Subject: surprise, surprise Last week I was on vacation in Chicago and I happily picked up the remasters of "Beat" and "TOAPP". All of a sudden, whilst perusing the video section, I noticed that this particular store had the videos of "Live in Frejus" and "Three Of A Perfect Pair-Live In Japan." Will the good surprises never end? By the way, I was quite happy and impressed with these videos. I can't wait for the next Crimson album. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:02:02 -0800 From: Andres Gomez Subject: Tool/Crim Crap I cannot seem to agree more with Chuck Geiger on this matter: all negativity towards this shows is nothing but crap. Perhaps you have to open your mind, not only to new music but to a whole new generation that likes to set its musical standards higher than Britney Spears. Like Geiger, I belong to a new generation of persons who discovered King Crimson and fell in love with an outstanding level of music, and at 19 I can only find positive things regarding the Tool/Crim shows. And living in Latin America, I am extremely jealous of anyone who is able to attend the show and see two of the most innovative and able bands of our time. Andres Gomez ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:55:36 +0200 From: UZipter at t-online dot de (epitaph) Subject: K.C.VIDEO DVD BEATCLUB BREMEN 72 i found a video dvd with king crimson live at the beatclub bremen '72.various artists from beatclub period '72 &'73,from king crimson you can see "lark's tongues in aspik pt.1 ",great performance with jamie muir.i found this video dvd at : http://www.jpc.de i hope,you enjoy it. uwe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:23:05 -0400 From: "melvin zirkes" Subject: 24 bit remaster sound Recently, I sent a post talking about what I had felt was overworking some of the remasters. On further reflection, I think I was only disturbed by familiar albums acquiring a different sound. I had not heard Discipline in several years, consequently, I love the remaster. I had listened to Lark's Tongues almost daily for years, consequently, I was initially horrified by the remaster. I think a lot of the criticism, as is often the case with criticizing Crimson is the result of our expectations not being met by reality. It is our shortcomings, not Fripp's (not that I really believe he's perfect, but often beyond my ability to judge). I have also had to wonder, as I have seen in other posts, what Fripp's reaction to such things as body surfing will be and worry that a Tool fan will decide he likes the band and snaps a photo of Crimson with bad results. However, Fripp has been playing to audiences about as long as I've walked the earth and must believe he's got some concept of what touring with Tool will be like. I still love every Crimson line-up, and am greatly looking forward to all new releases. I refuse to rag on them for not playing their old stuff and am resigned to never hearing Catfood live, but still hope they'll do Catfood Part 2 or some such thing. Peace and Love, Scott Cooper ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:29:59 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: FA - Wetton Downes CD Hi, folks: Back in February I received official information that the release of the long anticipated Wetton Downes CD was just a few days away. I passed that information along and it generated many orders. However, much to my dismay (and yours, too, I'm sure), that release never came to pass. There's much speculation among the fans as to why the release was pulled. All outstanding orders for them have been cancelled as no news of any official release seems to be on the horizon. A handful of them seemed to have mistakenly been released in Japan which dried up very quickly and no more were made available. Other than those, there was also a single copy that made it's way into my own hands. Yes, that's right. I do have a single copy of the John Wetton/Geoff Downes CD! I also have a copy of the promotional one-sheet touting it's February 12 release date which never came to pass - suitable for framing! At this point I have decided to auction off the two of these as one neat collectible package. If any of you are interested in bidding on it, you'll find full details at . To bid on it, simply drop me an e-mail at . I will keep all parties participating in the auction appraised of the bidding. Good Luck!!! Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC!!! ************************************************************** Artist Shop Radio Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:56:18 EDT From: Gloo6 at aol dot com Subject: Gee - No one knows about these videos? Hello again! Posted a query on the existence of Music Videos for the Beat album (which I'm sure exist ) not too long ago but had no response. Does anyone out there know about these? Drop me a line please! Geoffrey Loomis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:28:59 -0500 From: wviland at thin-film dot com Subject: Crimson and Tool It's funny that an inquiry I made in this forum more than a year ago has come to this. KC is doing some gigs with Tool. Never thought I would see the day. Tool is one of the better young bands of today, and as I mentioned in my original posting has obviously been studying the methods of KC. However, this band Tool is no King Crimson and will never approach their level of artistry. In the not so distant future, Tool will dissolve and their music will migrate to the other CD rack, the one that has those items that have lost your interest. King Crimson will remain in the changer or on the Oak rack the one that's in reach of the player. KC's music will continue to provide new and interesting thoughts through sound. P.S. I also hear Ian Anderson (Jethro Tull) singing through this Maynerd guy. Maybe Tull will warm up for them next tour. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 10:31:24 -0400 From: "Trimironman" Subject: Riding the Gravy Train Replying to Curtis Martens, regarding promoters and touring criteria: I think you actually reinforce my point with<> I'll tell you the name of the game, boy. It's called riding the gravy train. I'm not talking about the bands. It's the promoters who call the shots, and they are motivated by potential income, as measured by record SALES, which are generated by AIRPLAY. You go on to say << There is more than sufficient interest in the US to justify a headlining tour, as was demonstrated last year.>>Interest by whom? Us Crimheads? As if. I noticed a lot of the venues for that tour were pretty teeny (which isn't all bad, aesthetically). I'm not aware of Tool's ultimate motivation, but I have a suspicion that it is at least partly to be a commercial success. A BIG sucess. Just don't confuse music with the music busiiness. You could talk to Frank Zappa (sorry, dead) or a thousand other artists about that. Many songs written, etc. (see paragraph 2). Wake up sunshine. Maybe with the advent of internet distribution of music, we can break the industy's stranglehold on one of our most important creative outlets. I also find it amusing that you have your computer date set to 1956 (!) Marty Miron OK, maybe there was a little ionization... P.S. to Jim McLaughlin-Art Cohen was "doing" a Pesci schtick. Bravo. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 11:59:52 -0400 From: "Darin Lemieux" Subject: KC Limited Edition Remasters Helloy, Just a quick question: how long do the Ltd. Edition Remasters (The vinyl-like sleeve versions) stay in stock? I know the ltd. version of Wake of Poseidon and Lizard are already discontinued, but LTIA, S&BB and Red are still available. I just wanna know how much time I have... Darin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 14:18:15 -0400 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Silly Love Songs? IN ET # 843, Michael McCarthy says, on the prospect of Tool and Crim sharing a stage: >>>I hope that the two bands try to play together, but I don't think it will happen. Adrian seems just a little too happy-go-lucky for Maynard.>>> Perhaps Adrian and Tool could find some common ground if he joined Tool for a live rendition of their cover of Paul McCartney's "Silly Love Songs." (No, I'm not kidding. I found it on gnotella last night. Truly twisted. Don't know where it's from.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 15:29:07 -0500 From: Craig Subject: Japanese MOONCHILD Go here. (Go to CD) http://www.kokoo.com/ 4)MOONCHILD(Robert Fripp, Michael Giles, Greg Lake, Ian McDonald, Pete Sinfield/arr. Akikazu Nakamura)?@5:15 ?@sample sound 720k Here Nakamura re-arranges one of King Krimson's most popular tunes. Kokoo mak es use of higher tensions, upper structure triads and hybrid chords. For the shakuhachi's melody, more overtones and multiple tones are used to give the so ng a more colourful imagery. C ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 16:14:00 -0700 From: "pureambient.com" Subject: cds up for auction hello crimmers just to let you know EGCD49 (Discipline) and EGCD51 (Beat), mint condition are up for auction cheap at www.ebay.com search seller id ambient17 cheers, blint ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 12:51:25 +0300 From: "Mihkel Raud" Subject: Weekend Guitar Trio Dear Elephant Talkers, I would like to draw Your attention to a band with strong Robert Fripp/King Crimson influences. One of the members, Robert Jurjendal has participated in various Robert Fripp's Guitar Craft courses and performance projects (tour with the Berlin Guitar Ensemble in august 1996) Weekend Guitar Trio is from Estonia, Europe. Consisting of three outstanding guitar players with most diverse musical backgrounds, Weekend Guitar Trio produces composed and improvised music for electric guitars & live electronics. Their unorthodox sound combines the improvisation of modern jazz and the traditional music of various world cultures. Their brand new album "Animotion" draws influences from jazz and ambient to progressive rock and country (!). For more information and soundclips please visit http://www.weekendguitartrio.com All the best Mihkel Raud www.begthebug.com www.bug-guitar.com www.bugsound.com www.weekendguitartrio.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 16:00:48 From: "Spear man" Subject: Re: continuing saga+ Kudos to Michael McCarthy for his Tool insight in "Subject: The Continuing Saga Part 69 a: The Live Show - Tool and Crimson". They are not easy to categorize and hardly qualify as metalhead wankers and Michael's posting sums up the band perfectly. Of course, there is a little New York Dolls in Maynard, too. When I saw 'em on the last Lollapalooza festival--the one where KORN thankfully pulled out due to an injury or whatever and THE ORB closed the show. Maynard came out in blue face paint, bra and pink hot pants. Definitely an attention grabber. Maybe he was just revelling in being so close to San Francisco... (shoreline amphitheatre) :) I don't know that I've ever seen a band that was that intense in its live delivery as TOOL. Certainly not from the metal bands I've seen, nor from NIN, Pigface, or Ministry. And TOOL has an edge to them that is at the same time terrifying, arresting, and beautiful. Their live show made me an instant fan. Not in the fan boy sense--I really don't see the need to buy all their product and know everything about them. But I'd go see 'em live again in a heartbeat. AFAIK, they really haven't toured in 4 years. Live is where it's generally at with great bands anyway--not how they exist in the studio. KC, when I first saw them in the '80s was like that for me--simply amazing live. Especially their use of dynamics. I'd love to see at least one of the shows of TOOL with KC, but I don't think they'll be performing together when either band hits the west coast this year. And I'd like to see where KC are with the new material and TCOL, especially since I gave 'em a shitty review (and caught hell for it) the last time they played S.F. --spearman np KCCC#15, the best of the lot, so far, IMO. Can #16 top it? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 15:14:32 EDT From: SuprMallet at aol dot com Subject: Islands remastered anywhere? Did Islands get remastered when all the other 70's Crim discs got remastered? I've been to every record store in my city, and if they have Islands it's only the '89 edition. I've checked online, but none of the sites I've checked can verify it's the remastered edition that they have. Djangos.com had Islands used with a release date of 2000, but when I ordered it, it turned out to be the '89 one, again. So does anyone know a place either in Los Angeles or online that definitely has the remastered Islands, or does it just not exist? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 16:44:32 -0300 From: "Tancredo" Subject: flute Hello! I'm very interested in the songs I Talk To The Wind and Lady of the Dancing Water. I want to ask you if there are other KC's songs that use the flute (or something that sounds like one)in the arrangement. Please, let me know about it. Thanks, Tancredo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 15:10:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Raymond Raupers Subject: Working outside the box; Robert Fripp gets a much needed Tool Thank the forces that set this tour in motion. Robert should find some relief from his boredom created flash bulb compulsions, given the preoccupation he will experience in identifying the unsettling feeling in the pit of his stomach. Tool represents an element of the new order to which Robert is handing down what he has to offer. This crossroad offers inspiration and reward to all, even you and me. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 22:20:44 EDT From: Paulstewartkent at aol dot com Subject: if you loved Red and Starless $ B.B. ..... Re. Mathew Duckwitz's desire for a next CD for his collection, I suggest waiting a couple of months for the 24-bit remasterd live KC album "USA" which includes blistering playing from all the crims of Starless and BB (and yes fans, I know there were some studio violin overdubs on "USA" but I swear the incredible vi. solo on Larks pt 2 is David Cross). Although about 2/3 of S&BB was recorded live, the intensity level and the incredible overdriven bass sound of Wetton and the drumming of Bruford is more representative of Red and actually MORE intense during jams like Asbury Park and the improv sections of Schizoid Man. I remember a woman tapping me on the shoulder during 1985 on a noisy trolley in Boston while I was listening to a cassette of USA on my Walkman. Although I was using headphones she asked me if I could turn down my Walkman - "No"- and I returned my stare ahead informed only by the driving over-the-top rhythm section of Wetton and Bruford (similar to the moment of just regaining control and confidence after a near car crash). If you want something current try Heavy ConstruKcion- a live soundboard triple CD set that I think you will enjoy more than B'Boom era stuff and very reasonably priced. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 12:57:00 +0200 From: "Alvaro Calzas Millan" Subject: Robert Fripp picks Does any of you know what kind of picks and strings does Robert Fripp use? If he has changed that, I would prefer to know what did he use at early King Crimson recordings. Thanks a lot. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 15:08:38 +0200 From: Laurent Masse Subject: Matte Kudasai / Elephant Talk / Sleepless remixes > > and, that the Matte Kudasai that is > > claimed to be the original was in fact originally released on the Compact > > King Crimson collection. > >I'd have to pull that off the shelf to be sure, but most likely. It was actually the single version issued in '81 (labelled special mix or something, I have it at home), while the B-side to the Atlantic Elephant Talk single and promo 12" had the album version, with the overdubbed solo. This "special mix" then resurfaced on The compact KC in 1986. There was also an alternative mix of Elephant Talk with 10 seconds of extra Bruford/Levin at the beginning on the Atlantic promo 12", but that one is apparently lost. And concerning the Sleepless mixes, the original TOAPP had the Bob Clearmountain mix, replaced on the Compact King Crimson and DE remasters by the regular version. The Tony Levin and Francois Kevorkian mixes were the ones on the Sleepless 12" in '84, but both were then credited to Francois Kevorkian. The Tony Levin mix spelled "Dance Mix", while the Francois Kevorkian mix spelled "Instrumental Mix" - at least on my french Polydor pressing. Moreover, there was a 3'42 7" mix actually edited from the Bob Clearmountain mix. Anybody lost? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 22:35:38 +0100 From: Tim Bowness Subject: KC As Opening Act Part 199 And A Half > From: Curtis Martens > Subject: KC As Opening Act > > I would be very surprised if money was the motivation for the idea of > opening for Tool, as Marty Miron suggests. My concern is due to my > experience at the HORDE Festival in Kansas City. A rare opportunity to > attend a King Crimson performance spoiled by an abbreviated set, a > laughable sound mix and an indifferent audience. There is more than > sufficient interest in the US to justify a headlining tour, as was > demonstrated last year. I've only been half reading and following the innumerable emails posted on the Tool/KC, hook up, so I apologise in advance if I'm repeating things that other ETers have already suggested. I suspect that the main reason for the Tool tour ties in with Fripp's earlier decisions to work with artists such as Sylvian, Talking Heads and The Orb. It's a way of being exposed to an entirely different (younger) audience who have few, if any, preconceptions about King Crimson in order to build upon the devoted, but mostly unchanging existing fanbase. Fripp has a pretty honourable history of linking up with emerging talent at appropriate times in order to refresh his industry standing. From a personal point of view, his collaboration with Eno and Bowie in the late 1970's was an entry point into his work. Personally, I look forward to the prospect of Alice Coltrane supporting Westlife, Magma supporting Gorillaz and the Richard Thompson/Ricky Martin double header. -- tim dot bowness at virgin dot net http://www.no-man.co.uk http://come.to/no-man ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 20:59:14 -0400 From: "Roger Crabtree" Subject: Crimson/Tool The fact that LATERALUS is as wonderful as it is owes some thanks to the Crimson King's darker moments. Remember LIZARD. Remember LARK'S TOUNGES IN ASPIC. Both where filled with wild and crazy sounds and both were completely unpredictable. It sounds like a description of LATERALUS, doesn't it? I hope all of us can see and hear them together!!!! RogerGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #844 ********************************