Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #843 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 843 Saturday, 26 May 2001 Today's Topics: Crimson Casting Call Re; Pesci/Fripp Willamette Valley Crafties Red/Suggestions, Earthworks, Crowds w/special attention to Tool New Crimson forum Nico should see Tony Levin...... Third Try's the Charm: Tool/KC Dialogue KC and Tool Tour DPRP's Long Song List The Continuing Saga Part 69 a: The Live Show - Tool and Crimson KC As Opening Act Chance of RF ever playing in Russia Josette Tony as Tony w/ Paul Simon Crimson/Towel Tour and Travel Weary Capricorn, time moves on... Re: Movie Fripp/Belew setups Re: Movie ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 01:31:41 GMT From: Les Labbauf Subject: Crimson Casting Call ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 21:31:21 -0400 From: "Jim McLaughlin" Subject: Re; Pesci/Fripp Art Cohen wrote: >"Do I amuse you? What are you saying? I'm a clown, here to amuse you?" 1. Most posts to this newsletter are amusing. Its the only reason I continue to read it. 2. A clown? Don't know. 3. To amuse me, us , others?. See #1. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 07:32:46 -0700 From: Joel Palmer Subject: Willamette Valley Crafties A tentative inquiry of Crafty Guitarists resident in the Willamette Valley of Oregon: If you might be interested in participating in a Practice Circle, please send a private email to jpalmer at peak dot org. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 21:59:35 -0700 From: "Mathew Duckwitz" Subject: Red/Suggestions, Earthworks, Crowds w/special attention to Tool I've got a couple subjects/questions here so please bear with, 1) I currently only own Red and Starless and Bible Black. I've collected a few songs off Napster and am looking for which Crim album i want to buy next. I absolutely love Red (the dark texture, yet beauty) and i like most of Starless; though, i have to admit that The Great Deceiver absolutely annoys the fuck out of me. To me it's an overly dissonant, twangy jazz piece or what i would call the bad jazz. I've heard the song In the Court and like it and i think i've heard the Peace songs and enjoy. I was thinking either In the Court, Poseidon's, or LTiA. Any advice would be greatly appreciated as due to budget constraints i can't go out and buy them all. Oh, i should also note that i listened to Thrak (sp) and B'Boom and did not like them on first listen and haven't heard them since. Anyway, with what has been said thus far what would you all suggest for a next Crim or Yes purchase as i have heard that they are good too and Bill Bruford played with them for awhile. 2) Bill Bruford's drumming is intriguing so i was curious about what Earthworks is and what it sounds like. I know quantifying music reasonably is next to impossible, but a vague idea would be great. 3) I know there is great concern over the crowd at a Tool/KC concert which is justified; however, do not confuse the crowd with the band, please. Or rather 20% of the crowd. Bands don't get to choose their crowds, but rather their crowds choose them. Evidence to this in Tool's behalf would be their summer show in Boise, ID which they did not play the last couple songs, because the crowd was overly violent and it was not worthwhile to them to play to such destruction. They even instructed the crowd that they would leave and added that there music was not about violence. Their Opiate cd is in places an angry cd, but i think someone said it best when commenting on this existence that if you're not mad or outraged then you're not paying attention. Art should imitate life and i think that's why we love the chaos/beauty of bands like Crim and Tool. Sometimes the chaos of life makes it intolerable, but i don't think the solution is to pretend that the ugliness of life isn't there, but to examine it and learn/evolve yourself through your observations, i.e. to grow. Pain and misery (read negativity here i suppose) are very powerful teachers. PS: Buy Lateralus as it is the least Metalesque of the Tool albums; though, none of their albums are true metal. Most true metal (Pantera, Megadeath) fans do not like Tool. Tool, like Crim, seem to defy categorization and thus get the prog prefix to whatever you call them. Wear your cross like a crown of negativity calculate what we will and will not tolerate desparate to control all and everything unable to forgive your scarlet letterman GIVE AWAY THE STONE shunyata ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 12:09:25 +0200 From: POISSON Thomas Subject: New Crimson forum Hello, Have you ever wondered what 'other' music Crimheads listen to ? Have you ever felt the need to recommend stuff you thought other KC fans might like ? I have long been looking for such a forum, but neither ET nor the DGM Guestbook seem entirely appropriate for this, so I opened recently a Yahoo forum called Crimson ChecKout. It's for you Crim people who want to exchange music recommendations, be it avant rock, wild jazz, dark progressive, electronica or whatever, as long as you think it's in the same spirit as Crimson and might appeal to Crimson fans. Artists recommended most recently : So La Li (World Indonesian) , Mice Parade (Post rock), Boud Deun (Prog / fusion), Don Caballero (instr rock), Tim Berne (wild jazz), Splattercell (electronica), Tool (metal), among others. So before you go to your local record stores, be sure to point your browsers towards http://fr.clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/crimsoncheckout All contributions very welcome ! Thomas http://fr.clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/crimsoncheckout ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 09:44:47 -0400 From: "Caruso, Josette" Subject: Nico should see Tony Levin...... I'm, going to try very hard to persuade Nico to come with me to the Knitting Factory in NYC on June 23rd to see Tony and Pat play......it may be a hard proposition in the absence of Trey, but she did find Pat to be quite friendly and may agree on that premise alone.....the main question being, I am sure....what will she wear? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:01:49 -0500 From: "Jim MacGregor" Subject: Third Try's the Charm: Tool/KC Dialogue ((This was originally sent on Friday the 18th, but due to my highly adept and exacting nature, delays ensued. Thanks to Toby for prompt assistance.)) ------ It's 10:30 a.m. and I'm just coming to consciousness after seeing Tool last night (Thurs. 17) at the Riviera. Holy Crap. This was an excellent show. After reading all of the conjecture over the possible tandem touring of these two groups that has been posted over the last period of time, I thought I'd add a few things. 1. Tool is a good band. They have heavier & thicker riffs. Their sense of musical dynamic, development, and progression may jump in puddles where KC walks in-between rain drops, but they are both climbing the same mountain. Just with different equipment, and KC has a twenty year headstart. 2. I firmly believe that if you are a fan of KC that you would have enjoyed this show. To me, you could make a case for KC and Tool, circa Thrak and Aenima respectively, as two sides of a coin, two polar endpoints along a continuum, you get the point. Tool is primal where KC is cerebral. But again, if one can know anything about KC, if one has heard or read Fripp, a perception conveyed is one of necessary development to capacity, to natural and higher resonances. Although I freely admit that there are more Tool fans who are drawn like moths to the huge sounds, there are many many folks who transcend this - rough similarities in a sense to the dichotomy within KC fans, those who yell "21st Century..." & "Cat Food" during live sets are missing a whole dimension of what is actually going on. Tool fans tend to be younger in age and in development of higher concepts. Go ahead, try to blame Tool for that. 3. Live show: The live show was amazing. Honestly, it would play incredibly well in a seated theater. There was a conceptually brilliant and generally positive video display to accompany each song, that lead to a higher level of sensory impression experience than just listening to the group alone. Very Floydian/"Wall-esque" in impact and delivery. And the band just sounds good. No, strike that. They sounded great. MJK is one of the most unique vocalists that I have ever seen. Definately shaman-like, channelling qualities. Listen to the recordings to learn the nuances, and they will blow you away live. If you are open to it (just like anything). 4. Who remembers reading RF's diary entries during the pre-TCOL sessions, where he mentions listening to Tool as part of prep? 5. To be honest, I am not a fan of Tool's total catalogue. I came on a year after the third release "Aenima" came out, after seeing the video for "Stinkfist" late one night.  It creeped me out beautifully (when eerie breaks good). The new album, no, it doesn't sound sound anything like KC. But it can transport you in similar ways to similar places. All of the precise and direct aphorisms that manifest on the DGM site - this is where the commonality is, and why seeing these two bands together would hit close to overload. 6. I mean come on. Be honest. The first time you heard/read RF discussing things along the lines of "Last night a stream of musical ideas came on download, sending me from the Deepest Basement to the Frontal Basement...." it creeped you out. Eerie. Broke good, though, or you wouldn't be here reading this on this website. Think in terms of the audiences. RF dialogues. Tool tries to hook attention. But isn't it plausible that they could be possibly pointing at the same things? Or something. Go or don't go, as the saying says. I am. But don't not attend (sic) because you haven't checked it out, or are worried that the integrity of your experience will be compromised. Experience is just that. Always different. Never fully predictable. It could be worse than you expect, or better. That is to say, know what could happen and then put it away. Know expectation, know stress No expectation, no stress Oh yeah, I almost forgot that at the Tool show last night, MJK mentioned in-between songs that they would be coming back soon, and with KC if all goes well. He seemed to be honored, respectful, and enthusiastically humble at the thought. P.S. Buy "Lateralus". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:15:43 -0500 (CDT) From: DGCJR at webtv dot net (DONALD CALDWELL) Subject: KC and Tool Tour PLease let me know dates, venues when they become available. Saw KC in Milwaukee couple years ago. Best concert I've ever seen!! Hopefully the KC/Tool tour will be comin' thru WIS?? I'd love to get your newsletter. I am a club member, keep up the excellent work. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:04:16 -0700 (PDT) From: ProgNaut at webtv dot net (Ron) Subject: DPRP's Long Song List This is a pretty good list. *IMHO* http://www.dprp.vuurwerk.nl/specials/longsong/listalfa.html As DPRP says, "Please don't consider this to be a statement on what prog is supposed to be; it's just meant to have a bit of fun." ************************************* P r o g N a u t . c o m ************************************* a Progressive & Classic Rock Fan Page located @ www.ProgNaut.com Please stay tuned for a brand new look to be unveiled just in time for NEARfest! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:10:00 -0400 From: "Michael McCarthy" Subject: The Continuing Saga Part 69 a: The Live Show - Tool and Crimson Perhaps I can shed some light on this topic. About me: I've been a devoted Crimson fan since the early 80's. I have been fortunate enough to catch the band a few times over the years. I have seen Adrian, Robert, and Bill (w Earthworks) solo. I feel safe declaring myself a devoted and loyal Crimson fan (even by the standards of this newsletter). I am also a big fan of Tool. Just saw my first show in NYC. Although it probably puts me in a minority among readers of ET, I could not be more thrilled and excited by the pairing. These shows will rock harder than anything I have ever seen. KC fans should be wary of these shows. Many of the negative things about a Tool show stated in prior posts to ET are true. I saw at least 10 people carried out of the show unconscious or so messed up they could not function physically (and that was just the people who staggered past the soundboard where I perched for the show). It was hot, crowded, smoky and unruly. The crowd is young; average age was under 25 (almost 1/2 women, that should be new to the KC crowd!) They moshed and surfed and jostled and danced. It was a physical show. However, the Tool fans love their music with a ferocity and dedication that few bands in rock and roll inspire, let alone deserve. Fripp has protected and coddled us over the years. Gladly, we were willing to suffer his obsessive compulsive need for control, in order to bath in the sound and the fury of KC. These shows will be different. This will be a test for KC. Can they prove their continued relevance to a new generation? Tool is raw power. This music is delightful. Traditional metal is boring, boring, boring - formulaic, predictable, adolescent. Tool is streamlined, controlled, rhythmic, aggressive, thoughtful, complex, and compelling. The songs are written for both lyrical and sonic impact. The raw emotion of Eulogy is a perfect example. Maynard's voice is an instrument as much as the guitars or the drums and the lyrical content adds intensity and depth to their songs. Not to underestimate the music, though. You will find frequent tempo changes, searing guitar work, and rhythmic and driving bass. The drumming carries the band like John Bonham carried Zep, but with an extra does of rhythm. Maynard's stage presence is absolutely electric. The visual presentation of the band was phenomenal. Tool art is interesting and completely different. Live, Tool was tight and precise. They were heavy and loud, but controlled and focused. The music had a concussive force on the building. That place was quivering. When KC lays down their heaviest jams, the Tool crowd will bask in it, swim like fish and beg for more. There are not fans of many bands you could say that about. For the most part, they really don't know what they are in for. I can't wait to see it. I hope that the two bands try to play together, but I don't think it will happen. Adrian seems just a little too happy-go-lucky for Maynard. I wouldn't mind hearing KC take a stab at Push It. And I wouldn't mind hearing Tool try Red. Maynard said Tool would be back to New York with Crimson in August. He also told the younger folk to ask the people in the audience over thirty who Crimson was. I was cheering loudly and got some weird looks and one right on. Mike McCarthy whig at earthlink dot net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Dec 1956 01:31:16 +0000 From: Curtis Martens Subject: KC As Opening Act I would be very surprised if money was the motivation for the idea of opening for Tool, as Marty Miron suggests. My concern is due to my experience at the HORDE Festival in Kansas City. A rare opportunity to attend a King Crimson performance spoiled by an abbreviated set, a laughable sound mix and an indifferent audience. There is more than sufficient interest in the US to justify a headlining tour, as was demonstrated last year. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 18:53:39 +0400 From: "George" Subject: Chance of RF ever playing in Russia > Dennis Adamchuk wrote: > > >and one more little question > >When Robert will come in Russia with gig? Hi Dennis, I believe you should address this question to local promoters and not Robert or KC fans. The reason why Moscow isn't visited by interesting artists is simple. Local promoters doesn't have interest and / or ability to organize such gigs. I once asked John Wetton the same question and the answer was "I'd love to! I remember visiting Moscow in 1990 and it was great. But do you know any promoter who could invite me and my band and organize a gig?" What could I answer? > From: Erik DePoy > > First, most bands tour in promotion of recently-released CDs, but pirates > control at least 95% of the Russian market. As a result, most bands have > (understandably) little financial interest in playing here in Moscow. Yes, and the majority of promoters can't be sure if there would be enough interest. > Second, Russia has unfortunately built up a reputation as an unhospitable > location for touring bands. Well, I'm not sure why such a reputation was "built up". Such artists like David Bowie, Sting, Ringo Star, Rolling Stones, Peter Hammill, Depeche Mode, Deep Purple, to name just a few, visited Moscow several times and there weren't any accidents. . > With that said, it would be much easier for RF to perform in St. Petersburg > or Moscow in a solo context. As I recall, in his diary a while back he > mentioned that he was invited to perform in St. Petersburg (via Brian Eno), > but that eventually he was forced to decline. Wow, I know that Eno lived in St.Peterburg in middle 90's but I have no idea he tried to invite Fripp. Do you remember why Robert "was forced to decline"? Another reason why the possibility of a solo performance looks more realistic is very simple. It's much cheaper. :-) All the best, George http://www.agharta.net/providence.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 23:54:23 EDT From: Leftsimeez at aol dot com Subject: Josette >>>And where did >>>you EVER come across a male named JOSETTE? Where did you ever come across a female named Josette? Oh my, I think i am on too many people's "Bad Lists" on this web group. Oh well. Night all, ~BRUce PeaRSon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 23:19:20 -0500 From: "Wall" Subject: Tony as Tony w/ Paul Simon This may have been answered already but the movie is called One Trick Pony; There may also be an album with the same name, not sure if Tony is on that too. I have seen it before and the movie is okay. I do not remember much of the story. I think it was about a musicaian who was trying to make it big or he was trying to make a come back. It is on cable often here in Chicago >Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 15:03:33 +0100 >From: Sphere Subject: Movie > >How about Tony Levin as Tony Levin? I seem to remember seeing him >playing a bass player with Paul Simon in some '80s film, and he did a >fine job! Anyone have any details on the film? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:30:40 -0400 From: Subject: Crimson/Towel Tour and Travel Weary Capricorn, time moves on... Im not gonna mention names but I have to totally disagree here. Tool IS the mainstream, KC never was and wont be. There is nothing at all from Tool that sounds like KC in my opinion, unless its on the new disc that they just put out cause I havent heard it. Next, Mike Giles is the answer. If you guys would take a listen to some live shows from 69 or even the live Epitaph release two disc it would help you out a ton on how to understand the history of the band. Mike didnt want a damn electronic snare for christs sake! Ofcourse they werent made then that I know of, but Im being easy on you guys. Pack up the fake traps and listen to Andy Mac on drums from the Lizard album. Thats how a snare should sound!!! btw, I just purchased a nice 14X5 6ply 35 degree edge Yamaha steve gadd model birch that Im really stoked about. The attack is sick! Yet its plenty versatile.. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 01:42:31 -0300 (ADT) From: Michael Hackett Subject: Re: Movie > How about Tony Levin as Tony Levin? I seem to remember seeing him > playing a bass player with Paul Simon in some '80s film, and he did a > fine job! Anyone have any details on the film? It was "One Trick Pony". I caught it on late night TV a few months ago. Tony just has one line (as far as I saw; I didn't watch the whole thing) and I can't remember it now, but it was pretty classic. :-) (Hopefully someone else can fill in my memory.) -- Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:43:56 +0800 From: "Atonal Kahzmik" Subject: Fripp/Belew setups I didnt see this topic on the FAQ so I thought id ask, Any of you guitar players have any good amp/effect settings for emulating certain Crimson sounds, etc. I know that Fripp hardly uses an amp anymore, he plugs in directly but I was just curious. -- Powered by Instant Portal ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 05:48:29 From: "Dan Ceo" Subject: Re: Movie I remember the movie where Tony Levin played bass for Paul Simon. It's called "One-Trick Pony." Lou Reed is even in it, too. I don't remember much of anything else about it. Not a very memorable film, but I do remember Tony doing some very good acting and, of course, he played very well on all of the numbers; I regard him like I do Eric Clapton or Stevie Ray Vaughan, he sounds good jamming with just about anybody, never heard him play a bad note, either. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #843 ********************************